What programs have YOU discovered?

[pinkfreud]

wow!! , thanks!!, How interesting this thread, it seems to me that I have found a lot programs, I think that reading the recommended novels of this thread has made me see many of them, New title: Romantic Fiction, Reality Shaping and The Work, especially those related to couple relationship- marriage, family. At the same time I have felt a slight depression too, I wonder what happens when you detect those programs working from your mind or perception or from your unconsciousness, I mean what's next?, I guess you gain more knowledge about yourself or more aware of how valuable it is to know the truth in things, from the simplest. And at the same time I can feel the hole or the scar that these programs shows leave once you break free, a bit of sadness.

For me these days, my biggest discoveries of programs that have been quite silent are:
"Culture", the implanted idea that people are determined and belong to a certain culture or race. It's true that there are traits and characteristics within social groups, (if anyone has any comments, I would appreciate if you want to point out that this may also be incorrect, to refine then my understanding), but I do not believe that culture determines you totally, as something immovable.
I have found it quite false, several years ago, I changed my residence of origin, wow!!! and wow, what a hit on the head with a brick of everything I learned today, despite how tumultuous it can be to live in the USA today, I must thank everything I have learned, from the experience of being here, I think I would never have done it if I continued living in my country of origin.
I think I have broken a lot of prejudices here about race and culture.
In the end I think that even though I was probably very foolish for a long time, not to see, that what matters is the essence of the people and how you connect and learn with them, and how you manage to break through your programs and prejudices in your level of knowledge.

"Ideology", I studied arts many years ago and curiously the school curriculum was more focused on "contemporary theory" -posmodernism- in some subjects that dealt with material on psychology, philosophy, etc.,
Now thanks to helping a little in SOTT with the translation, thank you !!!, I think I am getting a little up to date with what is currently happening socially, politically and other areas, and how that affects people's lives. I am a little horrified and a little depressed how twisted these ideas that promote postmodern ideology are, they are everywhere; music, schools, politics, art, etc.
It is really unpleasant, but on the other hand, of course, there is for sure, a line of thought that promotes another structure of human development, values, which is totally opposite to the current structure that we are suffering from.

"Language", I think that for a long time I had thought about the importance of words in communication. I suppose that to everything there is a good and a bad side, but from all the madness with misinformation and how the political media use the word in a very evil way.
And from my own deficiencies with the language directly -that is, not being 100% English speaking- I think there are other ways of communicating or connecting, through feelings, emotions, physical contact and direct experiences, I think there are also other ways. ways to explore.

Well, sure there is a very long list of personal programs, but I think that for some years these have been my biggest learning challenges.

Hello, jess,

I can relate to the feeling of depression that comes after uncovering a program 100%. And I agree with you that there does seem to be a way to connect with people that goes beyond sharing direct experiences, emotions, and physical contact.
I’m sure a language barrier does make the approach more difficult. I am only proficient in English, and I am baffled by how much that language has changed over the past few years in the US.
The function of that language change, as far as I can tell, is to inhibit the ways English speakers would otherwise communicate to form connections. And I think certain phrases are probably being manipulated in other languages worldwide to continue the disconnect, though I may be incorrect in my assumption.
I want to offer two speakers/writers to you, as they have had a profound effect for me lately. They give me hope again.
James Lindsay and Peter Boghossian both do a wonderful job of breaking down methods of communication to bypass these barriers (at least for English speakers.) They focus very much on how to get to that basic level of universal humanity without invoking personal “triggers” within ourselves or the other person. They both have books on such topics and loads of videos available to inform and demonstrate the methods.

Best of luck, and keep up the good Work!

 

[Asa]

This is a very interesting topic, and as Mouravieffs work states, I have hundreds of sub-programs that present themselves according to the nuances of the social situation I find myself in. I think the sub-programs all fall into one of two core programs. They are as follows:

1. The feminine vampire; and
2. The alpha male predator

Whilst at face value these programs appear to be diametrically opposed to each other, they are simply expedient means to 'drain off' energy and/or light up my neuropeptide circuitry to feed my addiction to gratifying emotional states (both negative and positive). I must stress that this only dawned on me in the course of reading the Wave series. What is interesting as well is that a strictly materialistic interpretation of most of them, regardless of the category they belong to, are all in some sense about sex. So it was interesting to read Gurdjieff make the same point, as it was something that I had come to perceive as true before reading Gurdjieff. Of course, the deeper hyperdimensional character of these programmes - which are the way I participate in the economy of energetic plunder - only became apparent after I had read the Wave series.

Here are some examples of the sub-programs that belong to one of the two core categories:

1.1. I have had a deeply ingrained tendency to become involved in intimate relationships with violent and abusive women. For many years this was an entirely unconscious process, but in recent years its become clear to me that I am addicted to, and utterly conditioned to seek out, the intense emotional states produced by the toxic and damaging nature of these relationships. I then feed on the sympathy that my predicament elicits in third parties, and find the 'break up / make up' pattern intensely gratifying.

1.2. Intrinsically linked with 1. is my tendency to present myself as a really nice, supportive and emotionally available guy who will do anything for my intimate partner. It's false, and is motivated by my need to feel adored and appreciated, even and perhaps especially when such adoration is not the result of meritorious deeds. I want to be told that I am amazing, and so naturally attract the kind of people who are prepared to dispense such sentiment when it has not been earned. Accordingly, I am the 'covert narcissist' who laps up the 'love bombing' of the 'borderline'.

1.3. Various shades of perfectionism and procrastination, most of it shame based, all of it driven by the need to be given a pat on the head and told that I am just a perfect little boy, to have a jolly good feed on whoever is lavishing me with attention.

1.4. Laziness, going along to get along and making nice. Mechanical behaviour to keep everyone sweet and ensure I am rewarded with pleasant emotional states. This is more feminine vampirism really, the nice helpful guy routine.

1.5. A plethora of 'victim' programs. Interestingly, these have become a more frequent and prominent feature of my personal pantomine since I got on the 'straight and narrow' around eight years ago when I was 30, following 15 years of drug and alcohol abuse. This can range from 'sharing my vulnerability,' to reveling in discussing the defective character of ex-partners with my male peers. Whilst it is possible to be transparent in ones self analysis without it being an exercise in attention and energy gathering (as is the case with this post), most of it has been done for attention and energy.

1.6. In my family of origin, I have two roles that I have tended to play over the years, one which belongs to the 'feminine vampire' group and one which belongs to the 'alpha male predator.' The feminine vampirism presents itself as the 'scapegoat.' The terminal mess up, the wasted potential, the endless grovelling and apologizing and promising to do better.

2.1. In my male social groups, I will spend time figuring out the hierarchy and calculate where to position myself. I am generally aiming to get to the top of the pile when circumstances permit, but am quite satisfied with slotting myself in beneath a more dominant male(s) and running the feminine vampire routine with him/them. But I will be the alpha with the rest of the group, provided this is not openly displayed to the dominant male(s) and perceived as a threat.

2.2. This jostling for position in the male hierarchy manifests different behavioural traits depending upon the context of the situation. So for example, in my business life I will adapt to the personality traits of the person I deal with regularly within my client's organization. If, for example, the person I deal with is the owner of the business, and probably wealthier and more powerful than I, then I will provide him with 'advice' and supplicate in subtle ways that do not undermine my credibility as an expert in my field. Conversely, if my client is a large organization and the person I deal with is a middle manager, then I will be more dominant and assertive.

2.3. What is interesting to observe is the impulsive body language that accompanies these behaviours. So when I am in dominant mode, my chest it out, my shoulders are back, and I ensure that my space is well defined by my substantial and athletic frame. Conversely, when I am supplicating, I am leaning in and generally diminishing my stature. I am looking for opportunities to dispense praise and generally be sycophantic, whereas the opposite is true when I am being dominant.

2.4 When in a social environment that includes both men and women, I will run the same program, looking to see the extent to which I am able to be the dominant male. If I am confident that this is the case, then I will often run the 'outrageous' or 'controversial' programme to attract female attention, and then run the 'feigned indifference' programme once female attention is gained.

2.5 Disturbingly, when I read the section of the Wave series devoted to psychopaths, I was able to identify some of these traits in myself, particularly to how I have approached relationships and interactions with women generally. As noted above, I have a tendency to be the 'victim' in long term intimate relationships, but outside of that I have manifested predatory tendencies in pursuit of sexual gratification. The particular point made by the Wave series which was describing a pattern of behaviour I have often displayed, is to target (I was tempted to sugar coat the term but that it is the correct one to use) women who are less attractive than I am capable of attracting, as this makes them easier to control. It was a horrific thing to confront in myself, but there you go. The problem I have faced is that on the basis of my immutable characteristics, I am assumed to be something at my core I am not. So you might call this the 'Jock' programme - at school I was the best footballer in my region of England, signed to a top premiership club, straight As, etc etc. And would get lots of attention and just go along with the programme that I should date lots of differenet girls. It always sat really uncomfortably with me, and I would find things that most of my peers would do without hesitation (kissing, maybe more), seemed like a really big deal. But because of my external qualities, I was expected to be a certain way, and without knowledgeable role models to help out, I had no choice but to adapt by going with the programme. And to a greater or lesser degree this programme has stayed with me, and been acted out, to the extent that there is an expectation, and internalized myth, that I am or should be like some sort of casanova. When actually i am sensitive and hesitant in such matters. And so the way I have kept the programme running to my satisfaction and to manage the perception of others, is by targeting women who will fall for this nonsense more easily. It is quite a recent thing for me to be consciously resisting this and authentically searching for something meaningful and backing that up with my actions. This is quite different from over compensating, going to the polar opposite, and becoming the feminine vampire as noted above.

2.6. As noted above, I have had two main roles in my family of origin and the second of these is the 'saviour' or 'star' which I understand to be common for first born children. As I said, I was a star footballer as a young man and becoming a top professional was not beyond my capabilities. But a lack of self confidence and substance abuse issues put paid to that. So that was the first experience I had of being kicked off my pedestal and becoming the scapegoat. And really that has characterized much of my pattern in life. Highly successful in some way shape or form, and then balls it up. And it was never enough to just BE. That has only been possible by confronting my parents toxicity in real time as it relates to their behaviour towards me, and towards each other in my presence. If I am being brutally honest, my mothers death also saw some of my unhealthy enmeshment pass with her. And in recent times I am just pursuing useful work as its own reward, with surprising and at times excellent results.

What has been fascinating, albeit it is outside of the scope of this thread so I will not address it in detail, is that by systematically observing these programmes long term, and reading the Wave and understanding what my essence may look like in action, is that I am able to distinguish, on occasion, between the programmes and my essence. My essence is a fairly childish thing, that is most strikingly on display when I make my nervy and tentative attempts at resisting the manouvres of petty tyrants. It also presents itself in a way I would describe 'playful delight.' Again this ties up with the Gurdjieff stuff I read which suggested that essence in our culture tends to atrophy and does not get the chance to mature. Hopefully I am in progress in that regard now.

 

[jess]

Hello, jess,

I can relate to the feeling of depression that comes after uncovering a program 100%. And I agree with you that there does seem to be a way to connect with people that goes beyond sharing direct experiences, emotions, and physical contact.
I’m sure a language barrier does make the approach more difficult. I am only proficient in English, and I am baffled by how much that language has changed over the past few years in the US.
The function of that language change, as far as I can tell, is to inhibit the ways English speakers would otherwise communicate to form connections. And I think certain phrases are probably being manipulated in other languages worldwide to continue the disconnect, though I may be incorrect in my assumption.
I want to offer two speakers/writers to you, as they have had a profound effect for me lately. They give me hope again.
James Lindsay and Peter Boghossian both do a wonderful job of breaking down methods of communication to bypass these barriers (at least for English speakers.) They focus very much on how to get to that basic level of universal humanity without invoking personal “triggers” within ourselves or the other person. They both have books on such topics and loads of videos available to inform and demonstrate the methods.

Best of luck, and keep up the good Work!

Hi pinkfreud, thank you very much for your comments and the books you suggest, I will check them out at the first opportunity.
An apology for this delayed reply to your comment. To what you say about the language for native Americans, yes, it is quite complex and interesting, I personally think I'm at an intermediate level on english language and mainly what has now driven me to practice and learn to improve my level of english is the need to "speak" and "communicate", it is horrible to always keep quiet because of "personal insecurities" or to look like"stupid" especially for me, in the pronunciation of English, nowadays there are some words that I can't pronounce correctly, I think it also has to do with having an educated ear for to catch the different nuances of sound.

Good way!! towards the path of work too!....

 

[jess]

Hi pinkfreud, thank you very much for your comments and the books you suggest, I will check them out at the first opportunity.
An apology for this delayed reply to your comment. To what you say about the language for native Americans, yes, it is quite complex and interesting, I personally think I'm at an intermediate level on english language and mainly what has now driven me to practice and learn to improve my level of english is the need to "speak" and "communicate", it is horrible to always keep quiet because of "personal insecurities" or to look like"stupid" especially for me, in the pronunciation of English, nowadays there are some words that I can't pronounce correctly, I think it also has to do with having an educated ear for to catch the different nuances of sound.

Good way!! towards the path of work too!....

correction
LOL.... I mean: native English speakers

 

[Pat]

Hello my dear fellows,
My biggest program, I believe so far, was my unusual, overwhelming sex thoughts. It requires a lot of energy on my part to put forward what I believe was "my" life. I would likely believe that I nearly lost against the program if it wasn't for something inside me/someone guiding/protecting me somehow. The struggle is still on but at least I am aware of it (I think, or am I still asleep?)
I thank you ALL for your time reading those few words and, please just understand that this exercise of exposing such an intimate program of my life as a deep cleaning session on my part. It's only seeing one of my kids (the spiritual interested one) struggling with the same thing that I realised it is a program.

I always thought that talking about oneself was "attention seeking" attitude. For years I have listened to friends and family but have kept my struggling to myself. Thinking about it now, it was selfish of me to stop the flow of exchange. I thought that talking about me would take away my "power" to protect myself. Why would I think that, I don't know... The truth today, is that I believe I have stopped some precious knowledge getting to me with the "I don't need anybody" attitude. Thank you @Chu for your recent message on "crystals" about networking. I will start with me.

I believe the Lizzy attacks started very early. From as early as I remember, I was given to deal with some overwhelming sexual thoughts (earlier would be called normal sexual development maybe!?). How could that be so? Where were they coming from? I had no experience of abuse inside or outside the family, the TV programs I could watch were very restricted, loving mum and dad, siblings, animals, friends, no reading experience, living in a bubble except for those thoughts and feelings... where did the thoughts come from. I think I started keeping things to myself at this time, sensing that was not a discussion I could have with my mum that "motto" stuck with me - I DONT NEED ANYBODY.
My mum being a Christian, I turned to religion big time trusting god to clean me of those evils thoughts, it took me years until I was nearly ready to become a nun. At one point, I started ready "lovy dovy books" and created my understanding of life from the books. How painful it was to realize that those kind of books were fiction and that it only helped recognise programs and dealt with them (now I get it only with life experience enabling me to compare things). The books tricked me into a relationship which lasted more than 20 years of struggles and learnings - With my early experience, I always feared sex thoughts, thinking that they had to be kept in check thus finding love making unworthy during my one and only long lasting relationship ! Now I know why, the Lizzy found an other way to feed from me with an ANGER building up inside of me.
(The "need to network" message from the Cs really resonates with me now). Eventually I separated from my partner and tried to create a new life for myself... Oups!!! Still by myself with the I DON'T NEED ANYBODY'S HELP MOTTO, I went through depression resulting in sleeping all day. Having to care for the kids really helped me manage out of it. Something changed then, I started revealing my struggles to my family and friends and got lots of positive feedback. Eventually I met someone... and once again I became food for Lizzy. The sex thoughts came back to my mind to a point I couldn't understand and control, nearly breaking my new relationship up. BUT... I do believe I have had help in my life sometimes... my new partner without realising it with his quiet strength, his understanding of free will, his acceptance of me has been able to help me with my "ANGER" and with "I DON'T NEED ANYBODY". I am not a chatty box but I learnt to vocalise how I think I feel. Big step for me.
Thank you the whole team and the Cs for helping me in my search of knowledge and realising that programs are Just breaks stopping me expressing myself.

 

[msasa79]

A tendency for narcissistic traits to get enamoured in the reflections of own potential higher centers in another and (then) additionally projecting these potential qualities to that person in reality, which then gives rise to fantasies and delusions of finding a soulmate or in the extreme a polar opposite in the person where these reflections/projections were illusorily perceived/sensed.

 

[msasa79]

Until the almost complete exhaustion and depletion of resources repetitiously perpetuating the vicious cycle of feelings of dissapointment and/or of being a dissapointment by continously (and over extended periods of time) failing in sowing and making grow the 'fruit' that "pre-adamics" are just naturally not endowed the adequate/fertile and/or fruitful/fruitious soil to begin with.

P.S. This 'program' would also (at times) serve as a backup procedure when by Divine Grace subconscious realization would break through the narcissistic setup described in the previous (above) post in the thread.

 

[msasa79]

Tendency to get identified with various archetypal energies, characters and/or patterns (mythological, Yungian, ...) 'floating around', to the point of actually believing in being sort of a ('mercenary') archetypal enactor; also 'for hire' to persons held in high esteem by Personality, which possibly/probably underwent through a significant trauma experience resulting in severe narcissistic and other types of wounding by possibly being subjected to multiple repetitious alien abductions scenarios at the age of cca 5 to cca 7 years old.

P.S. Second part of the above is still not clear enough to put my finger on it, but there're some indications of similarities with John DeSouza's case at the time in the childhood. Need to investigate a bit deeper on that, so please take it with at least an ounce of salt.

 

[Menna]

severe narcissistic and other types of wounding by possibly being subjected to multiple repetitious alien abductions scenarios at the age of cca 5 to cca 7 years old. “P.S. Second part of the above is still not clear enough to put my finger on it, but there're some indications of similarities with John DeSouza's case at the time in the childhood. Need to investigate a bit deeper on that, so please take it with at least an ounce of salt.”

Being subjected to narcissistic wounding doesn’t have to lend itself to esoteric or other worldly happenings such as abductions from non human entities. Humans in current day are subject to narcissistic and Cluster B personality disorder wounding through everyday interactions with society, victim culture, grandiosity, need to feel special/unique good or bad, not seeing, integrating with reality, not having accountability, gaslighting, online/social media interactions…..Its important to learn/know what narcissism is at its core so you understand it and everyday can move away from its signal towards healing, growth and reality…abduction or no abduction the how is less important than what is IMO…

As far as programs I discovered:

1) Unfounded guilt
2) Be good boy program
3) over pleaser
4) lack of self respect

I have gained a good grip on the above 3 I think I have to work on the self respect part now

 

[BHelmet]

I don’t get bummed out when I see a program operating. I usually shake my head and laugh and think “how did I not see that for so many years?!” I wouldn’t call it rejoicing but it’s a good feeling to actually “see”, even if it is my own unconscious programming.