What to do when you realise you're lucid dreaming

[thorbiorn]

Does anyone know whether or where the C's discussed the subject of dreams?

A few quotes from the transcripts relating to dreams.

A: […] Now, a shocker for you: You would not exist if someone didn't "dream you up."
Q: (L) Who dreamed me up?
A: Not important just yet. You literally are the "figments" of someone's imagination, and nothing more!!!
Q: (L) You mean God dreams and brings us into existence?
A: Remember, "God" is really all existence in creation, in other words, all consciousness. This is because all existence in creation is consciousness, and vice versa.

Q: (A) Last time when we were talking, you made an essential division between the physical world and the non-physical world, ethereal world, the one which cannot be quantified. Now, I know something about the physical world, how it is built, and the main concepts of atoms and forces and so on. I would like to know what are the building blocks that describe this ethereal world. I am asking because you said that these two worlds can be bridged, if not united. In order to bridge them, I need to know something about this ethereal world. Where can I learn it?
A: Consciousness is in reality, the purest form of energy. The alter realm is composed of consciousness energy. To better understand the concept, one must utilize one's memory of particularly vivid dreams, when one had the sensate of physicality in a transitory state.

A: Undefined terms take shape when fine tuned. Ruggerio Santilli is considered a rogue in the field of physics because he strays from convention. His dreams direct his research. But this is not such a bad thing. It frees the conscious mind from the prisons so revered at your density level. Best to lovingly fine tune the work of the dreamer, thus giving it substance in the realm of convention.
Q: (L) How does one go about lovingly fine tuning the work of a dreamer? (A) This is not the point. The point is that he is writing mathematics - and what he is writing is NOT mathematics. He is not able to define his terms; neither he nor his friends who write for him. So, it is not mathematics, it is dreaming. I like reading dreams, but when it is a mathematical paper with a formula... (L) So, the next obvious question is how to convert this into mathematics?
A: Is tricky, but requires patience in the form of removing and reworking the mathematical units that do not fit.

A: […] Have you noticed your repeating dream patterns?
Q: (T) I have not been remembering most of my dreams.
A: Try melatonin; avoid any antidepressants. Some have suggested.

A: You may do as you wish, just keep one eye and one ear tuned to current events. And, very important, log dreams. Arkadiusz too!
Q: (L) Is there going to be some communication to us through our dreams?
A: Visions.
Q: (L) Where will these visions originate from?
A: Ether.

Q: (V) Was the dream last night... I was observing and looking what I perceived as sentences and paragraphs, very logically and meticulously I was breaking things down into logical segments - once I was done doing that, I was fixing myself -my hair, my nails. Was this a positive dream? What did this dream represent?
A: When one must decipher the clues in one's life, it takes patience and reflection. As in one looking before leaping.

A: Beware of disinformation. It diverts your attention away from reality thus leaving you open to capture and conquest and even possible destruction.
[…]
A: Disinformation comes from seemingly reliable sources. It is extremely important for you to not gather false knowledge as it is more damaging than no knowledge at all. Remember knowledge protects, ignorance endangers. […]

A: Dreams are the best forum for disinformation that exists.
Q: (L) Okay. I can see that. But, at the same time they are also one of the best ways to get information from the subconscious and the higher conscious, is this not true?
A: We have mentioned dualities a lot!!

A: […] Remember, some dreams, no matter how profound they may seem, are really just subconscious gobbledy- gook!

Q: (RC) Am I being called to serve? Is it a government on Earth or...
A: One interpretation, but not the only one. Remember, "government" is nebulous, and dreams can be pathfinders and dreams can be warnings!!!

Q: (L) […] Can you tell me anything about this dream? I was thinking, that since it was so clear, that it might have been prophetic.
A: You will learn the meaning profile of this and other dreams so well that it will be akin to reading from a road map... Patience, my dear!

thorbiorn

 

[thorbiorn]

Below are a few more comments about dreams what they are and what their value they may have or not have.

In speaking of these associations which automatically flow in man, I might as well, by the way, so to say "illuminatingly clarify" yet another at first glance insignificant aspect of the phenomenal stupidity of people who believe and ascribe significance to all their foolish "dreams."

When a man really sleeps normally, his attention - by the quality of which the so to say "gradation" of the difference between the waking state and sleep is conditioned - also sleeps, that is to say, his attention is, according to the law-conformable inherencies in him, stored up with corresponding force for the subsequent necessary intensive manifestations.

But when owing to some disharmony in the general functioning of a man's organism - most often to a non-normal expenditure in his waking state of the law-conformable accumulated energy - this part of the general psyche of his waking state is not capable of normally actualizing itself during sleep, then, from the associations flowing in him, constated with this attention so to say "a bit here and a bit there," these famous "dreams" are obtained, that is to say, human foolishness.

A book that has helped me in understanding some of the expressions of G. I. Gurdieff is Voices in the Dark by William Patrick Patterson which besides notes from talks of Gurdieff also has a rather interesting account of Paris and France during the period from 1940 to 1944.

In this book on page 159 there is an exchange about dreams:

Questioner: I see myself in my dreams with such clarity, with such force and disgust that it wakes me up.
Gurdjieff: I spent fifteen years learning not to dream. One must not dream, one must do. There are two states: sleep and a state of waking. When one sleeps, one must sleep. Take a cold shower, give yourself a vigorous rubdown, stand for ten minutes with arms extended and you will sleep. If one sleeps well, one watches well. If one dreams everything is done by halves. Associations never stop until the end. This is life. But one can stop paying attentions to associations. The dreams or association which continue are those which are the most habitual and therefore which recur. There is also theKey of Dreams and the Models of Love Lettes. You can choose.

One may wonder if it is really possible to cut out all dreaming during sleep. A person may say he or she is not dreaming but as long as they have not been hooked up to a machine and checked for Rapid Eye Movements and other indicators associated with the dream state can one believe them. Another question is whether if it would be possible it would it be healthy? A book by David Gamon, Ph. D. and Allen D. Bragdon called "Learn Faster & Remember More" with the subtitle "How New and Old Brains Acquire & Recall Information". It is published by Geddes & Grosset, in 2005 and has a section with the title "Dreams at Work", pages 195 - 202 about how dream and sleep aids learning and how each of the two phases assist different functions in a learning process. The chapter ends with a list of 10 references from various journals. The authors have a Website _http://www.brainwaves.com

Another source about dreams is Boris Mouravieff. In Gnosis, Book Two, Mesoteric cycle page 198-199 he writes:

When the emotional centre is plunged into deep sleep, as it is in the first stereotype described in chapter XVI, it dreams. It dreams in the daytime, in the midst of activity, as well as at night. The emotional centre conceives dreams by using its innate capacity for creating images. By elaborating these while inspired by these ideas from the intellectual centre, it can create images of grandeur to compensate for the failures or half-failures of life. If inspired by impulses from the motor centre, it imagines itself moving on the ground, on the seas or in the air. Under the influence of innate elements rising from preceding films it can relive these films in fragments. With the aid of impulses proceeding from the sexual centre via the motor centre, the emotional centre has erotic dreams which can seem entirely true. On the other hand, if it dreams with the pure and direct aid of the sexual centre it creates ideal images of its polar being, founded on the experiences of its present life or previous experiences. With the sexual centre's direct intervention the emotional centre can also create idealized images of living beings that the man has met, or who resemble his polar being.

In the latter two cases, the positive part of the emotional centre functions fully and enables a man to meet in his dreams a pure and elevated feeling which he is incapable of experiencing in his life as an exterior man. According to their different planes, these dreams can proclaim, predict or even be prophetic.

This process explains the meaning of the prayer that is recommended to disciples in which they ask God to permit sleep to become awakening in Life. In the two cases where the emotional centre call on the energy of the sexual centre in dreams without going through the motor centre, the intellectual centre, being asleep, does not interfere with the work of the emotional centre with doubt or criticism. As it enters the emotional centre the energy SI-12 accelerates its vibrations, and this enable it to transform this sexual energy into SO-12, following a momentary intervention by the higher emotional centre.

These few indications give a brief glimpse of the work of the lower emotional centre while it is still under-developed -- but which the unbalanced contemporary life of man can no longer anaesthetize or degrade, particularly when faithful, he climbs the steps of the Staircase.

The words in italics are in the original and probably need more study.

Next is a piece from the transcripts that shows how dreams may aid ones understanding.

A: Only because you know it is there. You cannot measure that which is above your level! Of perception, when you are using measuring tools which only can measure that which you perceive.
Q: (A) We are the form makers. I mean it's not Nature that is creating; it is us seeing order in potential disorder. And we see more order than animals, so it seems. Is this what is meant by higher density, being able to see more order?
A: Well, close, maybe, but you are attempting to employ a mirror to see outside.
Q: What we are trying to understand is: you have described seven densities. Three physical densities, three ethereal densities, and the one in the middle, the variable density. What we are trying to find out here is some way to express this mathematically. Some way to understand this in the universal language of mathematics. Because, if we could do that, mathematically speaking, that would help our understanding and perceptual abilities.
A: Yes, but first you must unravel the part of the puzzle which has nothing to do with mathematics. You would have your best luck finding the mathematical formula while in a "dreamstate," or under hypnosis, or in meditation before a psychomantium.

"Dreamstate" is in quotation marks. So the dreamstate is something that could be investigated more. Below is a quote about mental states and also explains why hypnosis as mentioned above could be of help if ones "dreamstate" is lacking in clarity.

Q: (L) What is this thing we call hypnosis?
A: The 2nd step to open consciousness union with level 5.
Q: (L) What's the first step?
A: Dream state.
Q: (L) What's the third step?
A: Trance.
Q: (L) What's the fourth step?
A: Expiration of body functions.
Q: (L) You mean as in death, kicked the bucket?
A: Of body

There is an interesting article called DREAM YOGA reviewing how different cultural and religious traditions have used dreams. It is from the Magazine "Yoga Journal, Issue: January/February 1997". The author is Peter Ochiogrosso. The link is:
_http://www.natural-connection.com/resource/yoga_journal/dream_yoga.html

From Gurdjieff to Neuroscience, Mouravieff, Cassiopaea, Hindus, Sufis, Taoists, and Tibetan Dream Yoga; there are many different views on dreams.

thorbiorn

 

[tendrini]

Hi Thorbiorn -

Thank you for compiling those passages. The C's seem to be encouraging us to pay attention to dreams, but the part about dreams being a forum for disinformation is puzzling.

A recent post on the subject of dreams inspired me to reread some of the Jane Roberts' "Seth" material, which I had read long ago. I was surprised at how much of Seth's channelled information dealt with dreams and curious to know whether it agreed with the C's. So far as I can tell, the encouragement to pay attention to dreams and record them are common to both, but for what purpose I'm not sure I have figured out.

If anyone is interested, and if this is an appropriate subject, I will post what I find.

Tendrini

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

The C's seem to be encouraging us to pay attention to dreams, but the part about dreams being a forum for disinformation is puzzling.

Well the C's also encourage us to pay attention to the world around us, but we do know that the world is also a "forum for disinformation". So as with real life, the idea is probably to learn proper discernment - finding what is true and valuable in a sea of noise and lies.

I was surprised at how much of Seth's channelled information dealt with dreams and curious to know whether it agreed with the C's. So far as I can tell, the encouragement to pay attention to dreams and record them are common to both, but for what purpose I'm not sure I have figured out.

One possibility is that it may again be analogous to real life. You cannot connect the dots or figure anything out in life unless you have enough data to work with. Probably recording dreams is just a way to collect and store the data about dreams, and eventually when you have enough you may be able to obtain something useful from it. Just a thought.

 

[thorbiorn]

but the part about dreams being a forum for disinformation is puzzling.

Maybe it is because the mind might be more suggestible than in the normal waking state. Note that in the levels the Cassiopaeans mention the dreamstate is just above the level of hypnosis.

the encouragement to pay attention to dreams and record them are common to both, but for what purpose I'm not sure I have figured out.

The Seth Speaks book also inspired me when I began to record dreams. I still like reading about what others think about dreams, but the value came for me through practice, or shall we say the sometimes boring lightswitch, pen and paper approach. Though as the Cassiopaeans suggest patience and persistency brings results.

thorbiorn

 

[thorbiorn]

Probably recording dreams is just a way to collect and store the data about dreams, and eventually when you have enough you may be able to obtain something useful from it. Just a thought.

Recording dreams is also away to put more attention to the dream state, to what is happening during it.

The following short excerpts from the Cassiopaean transcripts illustrate the possible benefit.

The first is about observation and how it relates to awareness.

A: Ask yourself by examining the details. What did the vehicle look like? What did it do? What did the occupants look like? Etc... Observation is the companion of awareness.[color]

The next begins with a question about Melatonin and alien abduction, and turns into an explanation of a dream someone had and the role awareness, which was mentioned in the previous quote, plays to counteract outside manipulation.

There has been something of a controversy about it recently as one group claims that melatonin is stimulated in the brain by aliens in order to cause the paralysis that overcomes the victim and thereby enables them to go about their nefarious abducting activity. Is that, in fact, the case? Is melatonin part of the paralysis factor of alien abduction?
A: No.
Q: What chemicals are stimulated in the body to cause this paralysis?
A: That is not the method used.
Q: What IS the method used?
A: Electronic wave diversion.
Q: They are diverting the electronic waves of our brain or our physiology?
A: Closer.
Q: Okay, what about our friend's dream; was this a memory, a dream or an abduction?
A: Etheric body abduction.
Q: What was the purpose of abducting his etheric body?
A: Study.
Q: Who abducted his etheric body?
A: Orion STS. Melatonin only serves to make one more aware of processes in this context.
Q: So, lots of people are being abducted, physically, ethereally, or in other ways, and simply are not aware of it at all?
A: More often etherically.
Q: Most abduction are etheric, but people are not aware. The melatonin is what enables them to be aware of what is happening by removing the blocks the aliens put in place?
A: Precisely.

Now about lucid dreams it is my experience that there is some relationship between the level of awareness in a dream and the level of lucidity. I came to think about this, when I found the following in the Work section in the third page of the discussion of Trapped in the Mirror by Elan Golomb: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=6989&p=3

Notice that G's description of DOing is "to control himself and all his actions."

If one in not aware in the dreamstate one cannot DO in the dream state, or so it seems.

thorbiorn

 

[anart]

If one in not aware in the dreamstate one cannot DO in the dream state, or so it seems.

To 'DO' anything at all (from a 4th Way perspective), one must be fully conscious - fully 'awake' in all ways, so I'm just wondering why you would think it is possible to 'DO' anything at all in a dream state?

 

[Shan Shan]

I find that the arms technique works great for me and I usually extend them out and fly straight up where I have a panoramic view of my surroundings, and I go from there. I usually warp speed by willing myself someplace specific.

Over the years I discovered that methods to stay lucid longer become quite effortless after some time. Spinning is definitely useful and now I just remember to stay focused on the fact that I am lucid.

 

[Thomas Alan]

I followed a spiritual path for some years that emphasized the study of dreams. It can be fascinating. In dreams I can fly, walk through walls, have conversations with people that long departed (or imagine that I am.), and generally enjoy messing around in the astral world.
But isn't it just a distraction like watching TV, playing video games or following the exploits of the local sports team? Aren't dreams part of the "A" influences?
After years of such studies I found that I had not truly awakened one bit as a result. Time is our most precious commodity. I need to slap myself awake not loose myself in dreams.

"....Only trouble is, Gee Whiz, I dreaming my life away." The Everly Brothers

Mac

 

[Gimpy]

I followed a spiritual path for some years that emphasized the study of dreams. It can be fascinating. In dreams I can fly, walk through walls, have conversations with people that long departed (or imagine that I am.), and generally enjoy messing around in the astral world.
But isn't it just a distraction like watching TV, playing video games or following the exploits of the local sports team? Aren't dreams part of the "A" influences?
After years of such studies I found that I had not truly awakened one bit as a result. Time is our most precious commodity. I need to slap myself awake not loose myself in dreams.

"....Only trouble is, Gee Whiz, I dreaming my life away." The Everly Brothers

Mac

Have you tried to wake up yet?

I've had dreams so intense and real, that to figure out whether or not I'm asleep, I'll run my hands along the walls to see if I can feel texture, heat, cold etc. Or I'll pick something up and drop it, or better yet, I'll try to skip.

If any of those movments or sensations are sucessful, I know I'm dreaming and then force myself awake, if I can.

Why? Well, my hands are numb. My legs are stiff with spastic muscles. I can't do any of those things in waking life.

Sometimes its possible to wake up, other times not. I used to go along and pay attention to what was going on and remember whatever I could for when I woke in the morning, in case it was my soul trying to club me over the head with something. :D

Since reading the material here and trying to grok the Fourth Way, my dreams have changed quite a bit. I don't find myself in many of these intense dreams anymore, and they've changed to become classic stress dreams. The symbolism is becoming clearer, and when I have nightmares, its not the tactile munch fest it used to be. (Throughout my teens and up to my mid twenties I had dreams in which I would be killed or die violently, and I felt everything. As a check, I've talked to nurses and trauma unit people, and others who've suffered some of the injuries I dreamed of having. It was accurate. It took a lot of counseling and digging in my own head to move through that junk.)

Dreams are a bit like Chinese Pictionary. ;) Its more unusual to find a good clear symbol than it is to see kindergarden fingerpainting.

When you're Working a while....dreams and the whole 'superfriends factor' will slide away naturally.

That's how its been with me so far. :D

 

[Thomas Alan]

Yesterday at 11:59:43 AM Gimpy wrote

I 've had dreams so intense and real, that to figure out whether or not I'm asleep, I'll run my hands along the walls to see if I can feel texture, heat, cold etc. Or I'll pick something up and drop it, or better yet, I'll try to skip.

Sounds like you have a very rich, even spontaneous dream life, Gimpy. I don't mean to diminish the value of dreams. It's just that dreams are such a mystery that it might take a life time or several to really discover what dreams are all about. I don't see that I have the time for such an exploration. Events in our world are moving fast. I may not make it to 4th D STO this time around but I want to get as far as I can.

I had the first really lucid dream in a long time last night, probably as a result of reading this thread. One thing I find interesting about such dreams are the people and creatures I interact with. They are very complex, nuanced beings. I carry on conversations with them, they respond to me in ways I don't anticipate. If I am mocking up these beings on some level I must have greater creativity in the dream world than I do in waking life.

Or perhaps they are my various "I's" manifesting as distinct personalities. I don't know. Dreams are indeed strange and mysterious.

Mac

 

[hungrig]

question; Are there anybody who are fully awake here? And what does 'to do' really mean?
Is this metaforical or is there really an state of 'full' (complete?) one can be reach, like infinite maybe?
My guess is that this means to be objective with one self of that is possible.

But then for ex, if no one has reached to be fully awake how do one know that it is the truth?
I remeber reading don juan saying that there is no objective reality, but the same I apply to here, How do I really know that is truth?

If the world are an multi dimensional playground filled with subjective minds, could all the subjectivity in one grab all toghether be called objective reality, or is it more like one reality???

 

[Gimpy]

Yesterday at 11:59:43 AM Gimpy wrote

I 've had dreams so intense and real, that to figure out whether or not I'm asleep, I'll run my hands along the walls to see if I can feel texture, heat, cold etc. Or I'll pick something up and drop it, or better yet, I'll try to skip.

Sounds like you have a very rich, even spontaneous dream life, Gimpy. I don't mean to diminish the value of dreams. It's just that dreams are such a mystery that it might take a life time or several to really discover what dreams are all about. I don't see that I have the time for such an exploration. Events in our world are moving fast. I may not make it to 4th D STO this time around but I want to get as far as I can.

I had the first really lucid dream in a long time last night, probably as a result of reading this thread. One thing I find interesting about such dreams are the people and creatures I interact with. They are very complex, nuanced beings. I carry on conversations with them, they respond to me in ways I don't anticipate. If I am mocking up these beings on some level I must have greater creativity in the dream world than I do in waking life.

Or perhaps they are my various "I's" manifesting as distinct personalities. I don't know. Dreams are indeed strange and mysterious.

Mac

Why do you think dreams are 'strange and mysterious'? They're just part of everyday living, like taking a shower or brushing ones teeth. I've read (somewhere in a psychology book in college) that people need to dream each night. That makes it quite ordinary.

I try not to mistake imagination for something its not. :) Dreams are part of mental hygiene: I started by looking at the physical origins for dreams, then the psychological workings....without a grounding its easier for the unconscious to trick you.

If its something you haven't done and have no interest in researching, I don't think its necessary to do for the Work. Its something I've done because my unconscious got filled up with garbage during childhood, and it took time to work through. :)

 

[Thomas Alan]

From Gimpy Today at 01:52:50 AM
Why do you think dreams are 'strange and mysterious'? They're just part of everyday living, like taking a shower or brushing ones teeth. I've read (somewhere in a psychology book in college) that people need to dream each night. That makes it quite ordinary.

Indeed, dreams are common occurrences. To me some of the mysteries are: What are dreams? Where do they come from? Are the people I see in my dreams purely symbolic, are they creations of my mind, are they some of my many "I's" or are they real beings on other planes?
Who am "I" in the dream state. Whoever "I" am in those worlds is comfortable with events that would seem quite strange in waking life. Objects appearing and disappearing, scenes changing instantly, odd creatures of all sorts.

Dreams are part of everyday life, it's true. But even after much study they still are weird and wondrous to me.

Mac

 

[Pierre]

Indeed, dreams are common occurrences. To me some of the mysteries are: What are dreams? Where do they come from? Are the people I see in my dreams purely symbolic, are they creations of my mind, are they some of my many "I's" or are they real beings on other planes?
Who am "I" in the dream state. Whoever "I" am in those worlds is comfortable with events that would seem quite strange in waking life. Objects appearing and disappearing, scenes changing instantly, odd creatures of all sorts.

Dreams are part of everyday life, it's true. But even after much study they still are weird and wondrous to me.

Mac

Maybe there is a whole variety of dreams. Here are some excerpts mentioning dreams and the way the Cs interpreted it :

Dreams that 'transcend time" by relating to the future or to past life

Q: (V) I had a dream about being a teacher and showing small children how to use light and color. Was this precognition?
A: Probably.

Q: (VL) E***'s dream of being choked?
A: Past life memory disconnection.

Q: (L) Was that dream preparing me for what I was going to experience in that session?
A: Yes.

Dreams relating to interactions with hyperdimensional entities

Q: (RC) What about the dream that I had about the three slugs coming off of me? Were these three slugs B****, B*** and M**?
A: Energy pattern essence, rather than individuals per se.
Q: (RC) Do I still need spirit release?
A: Yes. Okay.

Q: (V) In June I had a dream where I was taken up and there were light beings and I was also a light being; I was trying on different clothes. I was led into a room where I was told I could write there and when I was told it was time to leave, I had shoes on that had written on them "Earth Star". Was this an abduction?
A: Yes.

The whole series of events ended up with my having a dream in which I confronted a dragon...
A: Lizard.
Q: (L) What were they doing at that time?
A: Scoping.
Q: (L) What did they discover from their scoping?
A: Potential abductees.

Dreams that are just dreams

Q: (L) I dreamed last night about a puppy belonging to my sister in law. As I was walking away in the dream, I turned
back and saw a car run over the dog. It was quite graphic and I awoke very upset. What was the cause or purpose of
this dream?
A: This one was not particularly pertinent.
Q: (L) Was it just a dream?
A: Yes.

Q: (J) I had a dream where I had vines growing out of my hair. I walked past a mirror and saw this and said "I'm going
to have to get rid of this stuff!" Is there some significance to this dream?
A: None.

is there some significance to this dream that you can comment on?
A: Not of great significance in a psychic sense, merely a reflection of the subject's awareness of metamorphosis within
his own life path.

Q: (L) What was the source of the dream where this was stated to me quite clearly?
A: Dreams are the best forum for disinformation that exists.

So it seems that in some instances, dream are some kind of gateways between consciousness and our mind, where consciousness would provide information to the mind through symbolic messages

Q: (L) What is this thing we call hypnosis?
A: The 2nd step to open consciousness union with level 5.
Q: (L) What's the first step?
A: Dream state.
Q: (L) What's the third step?
A: Trance.
Q: (L) What's the fourth step?
A: Expiration of body functions.

However, there also seem to be a lot of junk data in the dream realm :

Q: (L) What was the source of the dream where this was stated to me quite clearly?
A: Dreams are the best forum for disinformation that exists.