Who created the creator?

[mkrnhr]

FWIW, the question has been addressed under different forms according to different esoteric schools (Gnosticism, Sufism, 4th way...). This entry in the Cassiopaea glossary addresses the question: http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=142&lsel=B
For more details one can consider the corresponding chapters in The Secret History of the World IMHO.

 

[Graalsword]

Every time a question like the one dyann turner did forms in my mind, I end up realizing that I should just stop and begin to pay attention to what is in front of me, what I should do next, and what is happening here in our realm, in the present. Because basically, when I think of those questions, I feel I would become totally mad, literally mad. It is so beyond current understanding at this point, and there are so many closer things to solve, that I end up shoutting those disturbing thoughts that have proved to not lead my anywhere but emotional unstability.

What I had many times is more or less similar to what ScottD explains here -

When I was a child I would literally cry myself to sleep thinking of this very scenario. It would give me panic attacks because I could not wrap my head around it. No religion that was forced upon me quelled this fear and it essentially led me to find my own path and ultimately to this very forum. It wasn't until later in life that I began to understand that I could not easily define infinity with my linear brain and it was easier to conceptualize a grand circle/sphere never ending and never beginning and inifinitely expansive and as such I was as much a creator as part of the creator as well. I think the term 'creator' in itself is even too linear and subjective a term that lends to a single object when there is none. However, it still makes my little noggin' explode at times! :)

Edit: added: When I read the opening post, I began to have such a reaction, and I said to my self "sh*t!, why the hell did I read it, I should not have even read it at all!" Of course I know that is not the solution, one must read all. But that was the reaction I had.

 

[dyann turner]

I asked this question because of the entertaining responses. Potentially. Thank you all.

 

[Buddy]

I asked this question because of the entertaining responses. Potentially. Thank you all.

I thought so. Your 'lead up' to the actual question you had in mind was sort of flimsy if you ask me. Cheers to you!

 

[Zaphod]

So if we are all just thought forms and heading back to the ONE, is the ONE the creator of all that is all!? So who created the creator????

And who created the creator of the creator? .. and who created the creator of the creator of the creator?

This is a paraphrase of the unresolvable question: why is there something rather than nothing? Even religion can't construct an answer to this. Whichever direction you go in, you end up in an apparent logical and unresolvable dilemma; yet we're here anyway.... So the only conclusion I can come to is that this carpentry concept of existence i.e. if I want a chair I have to build one, is a 3d concept and restriction. I know this sounds like a cop-out, and it is to an extent, but no one can even fabricate an answer to your question without creating another.

Sorry, best I can do; it's going to be fun finding out the true answer.. because logically, there has to be one

 

[Muxel]

I kept avoiding my lessons. Everything you guys tell me, my mom has said countless times. Be considerate, how could you do that, grow up, etc. Perhaps if I'd listened early on, I wouldn't have manifested this forum. I "fell" when I stopped learning from my mistakes, and started thinking "how dare you punish me for my mistakes." Before the Fall, I was more honest with myself. I'd like to be back there again.

So the only conclusion I can come to is that this carpentry concept of existence i.e. if I want a chair I have to build one, is a 3d concept and restriction.

I agree. We think combining matter is "creating." But creativity comes "out of nowhere." At higher levels, I think we will understand how "dreaming up things" is an act of creation.

 

[Laura]

I asked this question because of the entertaining responses. Potentially. Thank you all.

In short, you just want lies and fairy tales and are incapable of being sincere.

Sayonara.

 

[Chu]

I kept avoiding my lessons. Everything you guys tell me, my mom has said countless times. Be considerate, how could you do that, grow up, etc. Perhaps if I'd listened early on, I wouldn't have manifested this forum. I "fell" when I stopped learning from my mistakes, and started thinking "how dare you punish me for my mistakes." Before the Fall, I was more honest with myself. I'd like to be back there again.

Well, that's a start, I think. But if you really want to be honest, you might need to read more, and share more. And try to really observe this attitude as other have pointed it out to you. It's hard in the beginning, but certainly not impossible. Until you do more of this, it's quite hard to communicate with you, you know? If you want that, it's probably better that you concentrate on this rather than forgetting it, the result of which is "noise" in your posts. FWIW.

However, what do you mean by "Perhaps if I'd listened early on, I wouldn't have manifested this forum."? Maybe it's a problem with English, but I found that sentence just bizarre. Did you mean that "IT wouldn't have manifested IN this forum"?, or that "you manifested the forum"? Given the content of this thread, I'd rather ask what you really meant to be sure.

 

[truth seeker]

I kept avoiding my lessons. Everything you guys tell me, my mom has said countless times. Be considerate, how could you do that, grow up, etc. Perhaps if I'd listened early on, I wouldn't have manifested this forum. I "fell" when I stopped learning from my mistakes, and started thinking "how dare you punish me for my mistakes." Before the Fall, I was more honest with myself. I'd like to be back there again.

Well, that's a start, I think. But if you really want to be honest, you might need to read more, and share more. And try to really observe this attitude as other have pointed it out to you. It's hard in the beginning, but certainly not impossible. Until you do more of this, it's quite hard to communicate with you, you know? If you want that, it's probably better that you concentrate on this rather than forgetting it, the result of which is "noise" in your posts. FWIW.

Absolutely agree with Ailén. You seem to want to address about what's going on with you but are attempting to sidestep opening your own thread. Believe me, I realize this can be scary, especially the first time, but I really think you can do this, Muxel. The only way to truly be able to help others is to help ourselves first. For what it's worth.

 

[Psalehesost]

And who created the creator of the creator? .. and who created the creator of the creator of the creator?

This is a paraphrase of the unresolvable question: why is there something rather than nothing? Even religion can't construct an answer to this. Whichever direction you go in, you end up in an apparent logical and unresolvable dilemma; yet we're here anyway....

This problem only occurs if you assume a creator separate from the existence created.

If the creator and the created are one and the same, then both, as a whole, exist in themselves. There is no appeal to anything outside of the one "thing" that exists, and hence, no infinite regress.


EDIT: What then is existence? If all is mind, then all things "created" are information within that mind. Or, equivalently, it is structure/content within that mind. It seems - according to the metaphysical ideas in, for instance, the Cassiopaea glossary page linked in this thread - that this structure arises from recursive definitions: Two primitive "structures" (Being and Non-being) combining in all possible ways. OSIT.

 

[Muxel]

I'm ashamed to share my past and recent mistakes, and my programs. I've lied a lot to you all, to myself. Is it possible to work on myself without divulging them to everyone? I have been given all the answers throughout my time here.

Did you mean that "IT wouldn't have manifested IN this forum"?, or that "you manifested the forum"?

I meant the latter. It sounds one-sided, but...

 

[Foxx]

I'm ashamed to share my past and recent mistakes, and my programs. I've lied a lot to you all, to myself. Is it possible to work on myself without divulging them to everyone? I have been given all the answers throughout my time here.

You've seen the repeated feedback that you've received here, including recently--what do you think? Do you want to actually Work, or dream that you're working?

 

[Zaphod]

This problem only occurs if you assume a creator separate from the existence created.

If the creator and the created are one and the same, then both, as a whole, exist in themselves. There is no appeal to anything outside of the one "thing" that exists, and hence, no infinite regress.

I'm having trouble seeing how spontaneous self creation really makes this any less tangled.. I mean, we don't have any demonstrable examples of it, so to assume it occurs, would seem to me to be a leap of faith.. Unless I'm missing something

 

[Buddy]

I'm ashamed to share my past and recent mistakes, and my programs. I've lied a lot to you all, to myself. Is it possible to work on myself without divulging them to everyone? I have been given all the answers throughout my time here.

You've seen the repeated feedback that you've received here, including recently--what do you think? Do you want to actually Work, or dream that you're working?

Agree with Foxx. Muxel if you had any idea how I have sometimes felt upon realizing some of my own foolishness is on public display here, maybe you wouldn't think your problems are so bad after all. Don't know, just a thought.

 

[Peam]

Did you mean that "IT wouldn't have manifested IN this forum"?, or that "you manifested the forum"?

I meant the latter. It sounds one-sided, but...
[/quote]

Just to confirm that I'm understanding you correctly Muxel, and I could be misreading your reply, but are you saying that if you hadn't manifested this forum it wouldn't have existed?