Who created the creator?

[anart]

I wonder if the idea the creator is all that exists is correct. It could be the same as saying we individually are all our material body, which a lot of people see as a fact too. For me, free will appears to be intrinsically connected to being created as independent souls,

Why do you think we are independent souls?

ie God exists
separate to us,

Why do you think that?

or closer that God's existence is not determined by us

Why do you think that?

and the choices we make with the free will that we have.

Why do you think we have free will? It's obvious that mechanical man can have no free will, not really.

It doesn't seem logical to me at least, that an infinitely intelligent creator would create beings to her own potential detriment.

What evidence do you have that it is to anyone's detriment, much less 'the creator'?

Of course this is my unlearnt perspective, and I know my intellectual reasoning is not enough to really "get" it anyway. All the same it 's a topic that fascinates me. And I do agree too with the above mention, it instills a sense of awe in me also.

Is awe the same thing as confusion?

My point is that there are a LOT of assumptions going on in this thread (certainly not limited to you, alkhemst, so don't feel picked on) - so why spend so much energy wandering around in the dark describing how dark it is? Until our perspective widens, we simply cannot answer these questions, though we most certainly can use them as a distraction from figuring out ourselves.

 

[nicklebleu]

My point is that there are a LOT of assumptions going on in this thread (certainly not limited to you, alkhemst, so don't feel picked on) - so why spend so much energy wandering around in the dark describing how dark it is? Until our perspective widens, we simply cannot answer these questions, though we most certainly can use them as a distraction from figuring out ourselves.

I completely agree, anart!

While I am prone to do such speculations for "intellectual amusement", I often feel that it is really a distractor. We are unable to answer such questions fully. Kind of like a pupil in first class trying to read Shakespeare when he hasn't learned to properly read first class material. I certainly know that I am "guilty" of this ... wanting to fly ahead of myself.

When to work on basic questions like "who am I" and "why do I do such and such" is more to the point and much more fruitful.
And also much, much harder ...

 

[Sol Logos]

Hey there Anart, I agree I could be using this a distraction. Lets just say there was a smile on my face when you replied, and I'd say that was the beginning of my own program of wanting such intellectual debates to occur, you know for a chance to prove my own mind's capacity etc. I've got to look further at why I'd want to do that. Anyhow, the reasons I was thinking what I said is addressed somewhat in my earlier comments, but perhaps you read those already and still see confusion in me. That's OK as I'm not going to say there's no confusion in me on this topic and others, at least though not sufficient enough to not see it. Goes to show though that really any topic potentially is a mirror for us, of course if we make the choice to look at it.

 

[Amy]

It's been said that the Creator is a Giant body of Planets Stars Galaxies Universes ....

 

[thevenusian]

Hello Amy,

Welcome to our forum. :)

We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, how they found the cass material, and how much of the work here they have read.

You can have a look through that board to see how others have done it.

 

[Amy]

Hello Amy,

Welcome to our forum. :)

We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, how they found the cass material, and how much of the work here they have read.

You can have a look through that board to see how others have done it.

I wrote the introduction.
Thank you for letting me know.

 

[Menna]

FWIW all the books that I have read that say how or who created us I have come to learn are disinformation books and all the esoteric/psychology objective knowledge books that I have read don't bother with this topic they talk about us as humans, our machine, our possible evolution our place in the universe. Don't think we are here to find out who the creator is.

I have only been involved with the work for 4 years so there could be such information but I have not heard of it. Only religious and mythical interpretations that I have not been able to wrap my head around and maybe our capabilities or lack there of don't allow us to wrap our heads around something that is so far above us

 

[pstott]

Some years back I came across a website (quantumchaos.org - no longer in existence - too bad) that posited that everything that exists is a result of what they called a "quantum vacuum fluctuation", whereby there was a spontaneous "separation" if you will, of matter and antimatter from the vacuum, which resulted in the universe as we now experience it.

(For those who wish to search there are currently other sites now that have some information on this unter quantum chaos theory). They had detailed explanations of how this worked at the quantum physics level, that seemed to make sense as far as I could follow it.

Now if the concept of time is an illusion, then this act of creation is "contantly" or maybe a better term would be "eternally" ongoing. So in this model, either the Creator is something separate from this process who causes it to happen, or else the Creator IS the process and everything being created, which indicates a "bootstrap" situation where the Creator continually creates Itself - and also everything that exists as part of Itself.

Personally I find it difficult to conceptualize and the c's after all have indicated that we have limitations what with our restricted 3D thinking...

 

[Sol Logos]

Could the creator also be part of the process and the initiator as well? Just a thought.

Whatever my personal limitations are which I know there's more than a bundle, this topic I don't feel is a pointless exercise per se, in that it is only a distraction (although like anything it can be) because when we want to understand what made us, we can't not look at ourselves and our limitations, not only because that's how we can get a sense of where we might be missing the mark but we too are part of this thing called creation.

For me, there's some logic around the possibility of knowing more about the creator directly from the creator. I base that on observing that the more progressed a person is the more able that person can describe things in ways that can be easily be understood. Laura writes about difficult concepts plainly as do people like truth seeker and anart for example. So if that pattern follows to the being that has the highest possible objectivity, she / he is potentially the most easily accessible too .

So from that logic it's probable that we can ask things like the question that started this thread, directly to the being that knows this topic best and so derive information from this source as well as gathering research and networking to check if we're on the right track (or of course if we're getting this from the right source). This is what you guys have done with the Cs, so no different in that regard.

I suppose too the difficulty in getting direct answers though has a lot to do with how giving direct answers to some things is not always the most respectful of another person's learning process and free will. So a highly insightful person would be equally highly respectful of these considerations. Again, nothing new for you guys either.

I personally don't know the answers to these questions but I do see there's a logical basis for the idea of connecting directly with the intelligence behind creation and so I believe it's an avenue definitely worth investigating. If this is a real potential, then we can imagine how much time and energy we might save investigating this and all other questions we have about anything that makes up creation.

Just my two cents...

 

[Laura]

Just to toss the cat among the pigeons, I think the biggest question is charge separation. (See Plasma Cosmology.)

 

[Muxel]

I think charge separation has something to do with this:

Q: (L) What is the source of energy generated by stars?
A: Transfer points cause friction thus producing energy.
Q: (L) Transfer points of what; from what to what?
A: Dimensions.

 

[Sol Logos]

I wrote something about this topic not long ago and came across this from a while back. Might be of interest...

There's an idea that explains and links together all physical aspects of the universe. Physicists call this the Theory of Everything. They speculate there’s an all encompassing way to connect all physical rules of the universe. This isn't a Theory of Everything or anything here. That’s a massive undertaking. It would have to explain the laws of motion, gravity, the subatomic world, relativity and so much more. It would have to connect all the theories, laws and rules together too.

For my meagre start, I would define what a rule is. I’ve heard a simple enough idea about that. A rule is what permits or obstructs action. Road rules are an example. A green light permits and red light obstructs driving through an intersection. A rule of gravity is that an object, like an apple, falls from a high place on earth when nothing obstructs it.

But what if we go way back to the beginning. Before the universe had a big bang. If there was a bang, there had to be something to bang into and something that went bang. So let’s assume there was surrounding space and an object or primordial matter that went bang!

We could ask what kind of actions took place for that to happen? I wouldn’t know. But the question implies physical rules had to be in place to determine this. Because how can matter exist without rules defining its state and possible actions? It doesn't sound very likely.

So if we ask what came first, rules or matter we could answer that. Rules came first. If rules came first before matter, how is that possible? Such rules could only exist first - in theory. It's a bit like a smart coder thinking up all code and rules of an app in their heads before pressing a single key. In this scenario, all the rules of the app exist in theory, or in the coder’s mind before they exist in reality.

That possibility is what makes many speculate about some kind of prime awareness. A universal coder if you will. All kinds of ideas and religions have sprung up from that type of speculation. A recent version is simulation theory - that we are living in a computer-like simulation. Anyway, there is a few related speculations here:

1. The first is that there is a way to connect all the rules of the universe.
2. The second is that there is a prime awareness, a progenitor of the rules who is best placed to know how they connect.
3. The third is that we ask who created this prime awareness, there’s a simple conclusion. In dimensionless, timeless, non place, non space, non-matter world before creation, this original awareness only existed.
4. The fourth is that we'd need to step out of this simulation / universe to confirm this. I’m not sure we can do that - but we can only speculate....

Whether we can confirm any of this or not, we can explore what it could all mean for us if those speculations were true.

 

[Menna]

We are here to gain wisdom to what? What I believe because I do not know to know I have to have an experience of something to know something I can't believe and know at the same time. So I believe we bring this wisdom back to something or this something benefits from our gained wisdom. This is as close as I can get to answering who the creator is. I think we are part of the creator and we gain something here in 3D and that something is what the creator wants. That is or is 1 part of the creators objective is wisdom.

This question needs clarification too. The creator of what? human bodies? or creator of the soul or the creator of both. If there is life in another universe is this creator question talking about that too or everything in just our universe. Is there a creator for each individual universe/galaxy? Can there be two creators? Can there be fragmented parts of the creator could it be our souls are part of one the creator? is that self important to think that...Does an ant who is thirsty and see a raindrop ask where the rain came from and who created it? All I need to know is that we chose to be here on a soul level and we have never lived in this moment now we are unique to this now moment (from what I have read)

 

[syldan]

Hello dyann turner.

Asking who created the creator, I think, implies that there is some linear time scale in which the creator did not exist at some point. Since time is an illusion, creation is still ongoing and it is part of our free will to either participate in creating, or not.

Like the C's say, the creator is also the created (September 9, 1995). Hope that helps. :)

We are ALL creating our own creation with the help of our previous and future selves?

 

[whitecoast]

We are ALL creating our own creation with the help of our previous and future selves?

Sounds about right. I guess what STS vs STO comes down to is choosing which potential future creator selves you will collaborate with.