Winces/shocks

[mada85]

I keep getting these "winces" happen, especially when I am tired.

For me, something similar doesn't occur as 'winces', rather as quite strong 'shocks' of varying duration. Let me explain and offer an example.

Today, at about 4.20pm, I was paying close attention to the sky. I observed long feathery clouds that stretched over three-quarters of the sky, almost from one horizon to the other. I observed smaller feathery clouds. Many of these clouds had the appearance of long trails or swirls of dust. I observed a quite marked greyish haze in the sky towards the south and west. The whole series of formations appeared to be coming from the south-west area of the sky. Into my mind came Laura's mention, on another thread, of cometary dust entering our atmosphere. Some of the cloud formations I observed had the colour of greyish dust. The sunset this evening was a strong orange colour, which I understand to be caused by dust in the lower atmosphere.

I was walking to my local supermarket at the time, and considerations of cometary dust and possible bombardment by comets led me to consider very deeply how insignificant we are on the surface of this planet in relation to the magnitude of cosmic forces, such as comets. I observed the people, and thought about my colleagues at work, and considered how our 'civilization' – so-called – produces a million utterly inconsequential things to keep us hypnotised and asleep, and that the vast majority of people just think that this is how things are – there are no comets, our leaders have everything in hand, and so on. It is literally a dream factory and people are satisfied with so little, with such inconsequential things. I have been one of those people, and sometimes still am.

This train of thought gave rise to a sensation that I can best describe as a 'hollowing' in my solar plexus. I experience this sensation when I read about or contemplate ideas that show me that my conditioned world-view is not accurate; when I realise, yet again, that large parts of my world-view are rooted in the desire to feel safe and comfortable, and that the world is not safe or comfortable.

When this happens I have two choices. I can either try and ignore the sensation and calm down, or I can allow the hollowing sensation to intensify. It takes a degree of self control to allow the intensifying of the sensation: it's like a fire that burns away some ideas of the 'all's well with the world' type. It isn't a hot fire; it's more like having the rug pulled out from under my feet, or standing in the face of a rushing wind while no-longer-needed parts of myself are blown away.

I much prefer to allow the sensation to intensify, instead of calming down, but then it can become quite difficult to function. For example, walking round the supermarket this afternoon, I felt as though I was in a dream; I had been disconnected from the ordinary world and its concerns by a deep contemplation of our vulnerability.

Since my teens I have had the notion that there is something wrong with the world, but I first experienced this 'hollowing' sensation in a prolonged and meaningful way when I started to read The Wave online a few years ago. The sensation was with me for weeks as I was reading, and every page of Laura's work seemed to bring a new shock and intensification of 'hollowing'.

Hope this all makes sense.
Thanks for reading.

 

[PepperFritz]

This train of thought gave rise to a sensation that I can best describe as a 'hollowing' in my solar plexus. I experience this sensation when I read about or contemplate ideas that show me that my conditioned world-view is not accurate; when I realise, yet again, that large parts of my world-view are rooted in the desire to feel safe and comfortable, and that the world is not safe or comfortable.... When this happens I have two choices. I can either try and ignore the sensation and calm down, or I can allow the hollowing sensation to intensify. It takes a degree of self control to allow the intensifying of the sensation: it's like a fire that burns away some ideas of the 'all's well with the world' type. It isn't a hot fire; it's more like having the rug pulled out from under my feet, or standing in the face of a rushing wind while no-longer-needed parts of myself are blown away.

Wow, you have described it EXACTLY. I have experienced that "hollowing" frequently (since I was very young), and have to admit that my first impulse is to soothe it away, because the intensity is frightening It's like standing on the edge of a cliff, about to go into a free-fall; the instinct to pull back to safety is hard to resist. But, as you say, if you let it take its course, it eventually dissipates -- though not before "burning away" another layer of false security.

 

[j0da]

Uhmm..is it really necessary to remind you these things folks?

Two, please don't post messages about your illegal pastimes and habits. Signs of the Times does not wish to appear to condone such practises, for reasons that should be pretty obvious if a little common sense is applied. If you do post such stuff, expect it to be deleted immediately.

 

[Russ]

I know of that but Salvia isn't illegal in this country (UK), its just like if I said I had smoked pot in amsterdam. But still, maybe the mods should decide what to do, I'm not sure anymore if its OK to leave it. I can edit the post if needed.

 

[T.C.]

This train of thought gave rise to a sensation that I can best describe as a 'hollowing' in my solar plexus. I experience this sensation when I read about or contemplate ideas that show me that my conditioned world-view is not accurate; when I realise, yet again, that large parts of my world-view are rooted in the desire to feel safe and comfortable, and that the world is not safe or comfortable.... When this happens I have two choices. I can either try and ignore the sensation and calm down, or I can allow the hollowing sensation to intensify. It takes a degree of self control to allow the intensifying of the sensation: it's like a fire that burns away some ideas of the 'all's well with the world' type. It isn't a hot fire; it's more like having the rug pulled out from under my feet, or standing in the face of a rushing wind while no-longer-needed parts of myself are blown away.

Wow, you have described it EXACTLY. I have experienced that "hollowing" frequently (since I was very young), and have to admit that my first impulse is to soothe it away, because the intensity is frightening It's like standing on the edge of a cliff, about to go into a free-fall; the instinct to pull back to safety is hard to resist. But, as you say, if you let it take its course, it eventually dissipates -- though not before "burning away" another layer of false security.

I never saw these replies in this thread the first time round.

Gosh, it explains exactly a sensation I used to have when I was really young, but which happened less and less as I got older. I always ended up "pulling back to safety" because it was just too scary, and in doing so, I think I somehow eventually cut myself off from being able to experience it.

The last time it happened was a few years ago, (2004 I think) and it came on when I woke in the middle of the night suffering from salmonella induced delirium. I hadn't experienced it for a long time before then and recognised it immediately; I'd always thought that because I was older, if it ever happened again, I'd be able to explore it without "chickening out", but again I did everything I could to stop the sensation because it was just too scary.

T.C.

 

[Buddy]

I was wondering if anyone else had any experience with what I'm talking about, and any more information or insight?

Thanks for reading.

I want to say thank YOU for this thread. I've been feeling a bit too meek lately to start my own.
I hope this is helpful.
I experience occasional flashes of completely unexpected perceptions also. Some accompanied by a feeling of 'flinch/recoil' or a 'not wanting to see' kind of impact. Some are quick and temporary and I can't remember what they were a few minutes later, and some last a bit longer. I think mine are related to what my particular sense of self-responsibility is feeling like at those moments, but I'm not sure. I'm wondering about a possible relationship between my sense of personal responsibility at a given time, and how much I can remember or deal with about my own past and what I've allowed to happen to my own mind.
This may be completely unrelated to you, though.
For the last three days, I have been studying a few specific threads.
Mainly the Alan Watt, Philip Gardiner and Gog Magog Discussions. Although seemingly unrelated, they are rich in the knowledge and viewpoints that I seem to need in my Work at this point. As a result of my studying, It feels like my awareness has expanded to some extent, by the inclusion of several new 'angles of view' by which I can see how something fits in with a broader picture.

The downside of this explains where MY shocks are coming from. It seems I'm experiencing something like an 'equal but opposite reaction' deep inside me where more fundamental beliefs and views of myself reside. In effect, the more I learn, the more I realize just how stupid I am and can be. Frankly, it pisses me off and I know there's more to come because I'm only at the level of anger and disappointment and I've got to go deeper.
The ordinary, minor shocks that I have been experiencing during day-to-day life (using my emotional reactions to uncover false beliefs, etc.) are useful but nothing by comparison.

In fact, I have taken to looking back at the posts I have made to this forum up to this point and I see where I'm making mistakes and missing understanding. I am embarrased at what I see in myself. I had the childish thought of just deleting everything (assuming I could) and just going away. Then I realized that an action such as that would be about as useful as putting the Philip Gardiner Discussion back in 'Baked Noodles'. It's simply that it's more valuable where it is.

The thing that scares me the most is that I'll lose my ability to be rational and practical, I thought maybe this could develop into something that could make me lose my mind.

What scares ME the most right now, is the possibility that I may find that I have an orientation around something or group of somethings (strongly held views/beliefs perhaps?) that has caused a crystallization in me that can be dissolved only by 'terrible suffering' before being able to make permanent changes. Could that be similar to the fear of 'losing one's mind'?
That bothers me because I don't like 'terrible suffering'. I don't even like confrontations of any kind because it wreaks havoc on my nervous system. What keeps me going, right now, is faith in the idea that whatever pain I will have to go through, will be met with a corresponding increase of benefit to me down the road.




Off topic, but fwiw and for clarity purposes, the discussions I refered to are:
Cassiopaea Forum » The Unexplained » Channel Watch & New Age COINTELPRO » Is Alan Watt Credible?
Cassiopaea Forum » The Unexplained » Channel Watch & New Age COINTELPRO » Philip Gardiner: expert on hidden mysteries? PSY-OPS Agent
Cassiopaea Forum » Esoterica » The Cassiopaean Experiment » Gog Magog

 

[nicklebleu]

Hi Russ,

I have recently started to experience very weird things as well ... I'll try to explain just in a second. I am not sure, if my experience is the same as yours, and I have no idea what to make of it. So here goes:

A few days ago I was walking somewhere (I don'r remember where), when something triggered a very brief,but VERY INTENSE feeling of absolute desperation, kind of a crushing sensation of utter despair. It lasted only a fraction of a second, but it was quite disturbing. It has happende many times in the past, often triggered by some particular smell or view.

These episodes don't give me the impression that it is something in the making, something that will go "bad". It's more like a jolt, but seemingly totally disconnected from what I am doing or thinkin at the time. It also reminds me of a passage that I read I think in the Wave Series, where some farmers experienced weird phenomenons in relation to what I think remembering as "UFO" related incidences. Now I have never seen an UFO, and I can't see an obvious connection with this in my case - just the description seems to be the same. One thing that I haven't tried is to retrace my steps and see, whether this phenomenon is reproducible. Think that I should try next time - but up to now I was always too disconcerted to think of that in time ...

Not sure that all makes sense ....

P.S: Found the passage that I referred to above (The Wave - Book 1P 132):

Paul Glover and Dave Stringer and another man went to Clapham to see if they could spot any UFOs. There was no activity. They decided to go home and as they were walking out of the woods, all three of them simultaneously had a feeling of intense cold. They hurried on and the feeling ceased. They decided to go back and check it out again. They did this three times, and each time experienced the sensation of a sudden and unnatural drop in temperature. Glover pointed his camera at the area of the cold, even though nothing was apparently visible. When the film was developed, it showed an
uncanny white mass in the unmistakable image of a goat’s head.

Not sure that my experience has any parallels with this quote, just reminded me of this ...

 

[T.C.]

I also think that it is good for us to remember that - as bleak and unpleasant as this may be - we're all pretty much emotionally dead. That's how we've been programmed and brought up to be.

So when we do start to feel again, often triggered by our studies in Cassiopaea related material, it's going to feel completely weird and sometimes unpleasant.

For many people there is a trapped and hurt and buried true "I" inside, under all the predatorial yuckiness we call our personalities; and if we don't pay attention to it, then sooner or later it finds a way to tell us, "HELLLLLOO! Can you hear me up there? No? Well how about I kick you in the gut? *BAM*. Ahhh, that got your attention".

T.C.

 

[Alana]

What scares ME the most right now, is the possibility that I may find that I have an orientation around something or group of somethings (strongly held views/beliefs perhaps?) that has caused a crystallization in me that can be dissolved only by 'terrible suffering' before being able to make permanent changes. Could that be similar to the fear of 'losing one's mind'?

Since our minds as they are are not really ours but foreign installations (self created buffers, parenting, cultural, religious, etc teachings through the course of our lives) i would say that "loosing our mind" is in a sense imperative in order to find our OWN Mind. This fits along with what T.C. mentions. We have been walking around asleep all our lives, asleep especially in the emotional center. As our awareness expands, and continue to receive shocks, as well as begin to learn more about those foreign installations and try not to act based on them, our brains will be rewired, and our emotional center awaken. It will not be pleasant at first, as there were reasons we created those buffers in the first place, to protect our child selves from what was perceived an unsafe environment.

That bothers me because I don't like 'terrible suffering'. I don't even like confrontations of any kind because it wreaks havoc on my nervous system. What keeps me going, right now, is faith in the idea that whatever pain I will have to go through, will be met with a corresponding increase of benefit to me down the road.

I understand. :)

I don't know whether you have read this one, but it is always and at any time a good reminder:

First Initiation

 

[Buddy]

Since our minds as they are are not really ours but foreign installations (self created buffers, parenting, cultural, religious, etc teachings through the course of our lives) i would say that "loosing our mind" is in a sense imperative in order to find our OWN Mind. This fits along with what T.C. mentions. We have been walking around asleep all our lives, asleep especially in the emotional center. As our awareness expands, and continue to receive shocks, as well as begin to learn more about those foreign installations and try not to act based on them, our brains will be rewired, and our emotional center awaken. It will not be pleasant at first, as there were reasons we created those buffers in the first place, to protect our child selves from what was perceived an unsafe environment.

Thanks Smaragde!
This is helpful.
I overlooked an obvious way to simplify my understanding of the 'foreign installation'. Those reasons that explain why we created those buffers, also seem to explain the difficulty seeing them for what they are. Since we long ago took for granted that we needed them, there was no need to question them or to consider that we might have to dispose of them someday, I guess.

Reading Gurdjieff is always a humbling experience. Sometimes I have a problem connecting with some of the things he says, but a part of me knows, deep down, that he is right. The more I study, the closer I come to the actual realization of it. That full realization is probably going to burn.

Lately, I've been realizing that I'm spending too much time studying the psychological manifestations of those who appear to have been doing the work for some time. Seems like I was looking for a 'preview' of the knowledge that must underlie and explain some of the brilliant perceptions displayed by many forum members. That was 'my version' of trying to understand the work.
I see how much of a waste of time that is right now. That's not DOing the work. Noone else can do my work for me. That's part of my embarrassment, but a valuable lesson as I have come to realize that it is a theme that also runs through my life.

Thanks again.

 

[RedFox]

A few days ago I was walking somewhere (I don’t remember where), when something triggered a very brief,but VERY INTENSE feeling of absolute desperation, kind of a crushing sensation of utter despair. It lasted only a fraction of a second, but it was quite disturbing. It has happened many times in the past, often triggered by some particular smell or view.

This reminded me of several examples from the book Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout.
I do not have the book to hand to quote exactly, but the passage consisted of describing how a women on a train station was suddenly reminded of a traumatic event from childhood (I think it was the surprise of a loud train suddenly going past), but because the memory was so fragmented it made no sense.
It was sudden and overwhelming and she disassociated because of it. All she could think afterwards was 'that train was loud' but had no recall of much of the following hours/train journey because of the disassociation.
If that sounds familiar, it would be a good book to read. In your case it seems to match, at least to me.

For me I don't get winces or shocks, just a sinking feeling in my stomach. They can get pretty intense sometimes. But are always gradual and never sudden.
What I've concluded is that I've been able to block these shocks so efficiently for so long that its slow progress unlearning it.
I remember a time about 4 years ago where I would get some sudden shocks while dealing with my depression, but it seems that because of my lack of knowledge I may not have 'dealt' with it quite the way I would now.
I think I need the two steps back before I can go forward.

 

[Pierre]

This reminded me of several examples from the book Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout.
I do not have the book to hand to quote exactly, but the passage consisted of describing how a women on a train station was suddenly reminded of a traumatic event from childhood (I think it was the surprise of a loud train suddenly going past), but because the memory was so fragmented it made no sense.

Yes, in addition to obvious triggers, there are also very subtle details like a smell, a colour, a sound that can trigger programs.

So when self-observing one should not only monitor obvious triggers but also subtle ones. Otherwise one can easily think he's getting crazy or beamed by hyperdimesional entities because one can see a program running while not identifying any trigger.

Here's an example. When I was a child, the atmosphere during meals was not so merry, so I unconsciously developed a dislike for this moment and also programs to avoid it.

Years later, as an "adult" I noticed that as soon as I heard some noise in the kitchen, I started to have thousands of things to do, suddenly the motor center was taking the control and I was getting up, walking back and forth, starting frantically to clean, tidy or file documents.

Even the smallest kitchen noise could trigger the program because the child had learnt to identify the smallest hint in order to protect himself.

Actually it's scary to see how pavlovian, mechanical and powerful these reactions can be.

 

[Bo]

Redfox:
This reminded me of several examples from the book Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout.
I do not have the book to hand to quote exactly

You probably mean this?

A woman named Beverly reads a morning newspaper while she sits at a quiet suburban depot and waits for a train.
The article, concerning an outrageous local scandal, intrigues her so much that for a few minutes she forgets where she is. Suddenly, there is an earsplitting blast from the train as it signals its arrival. Beverly is painfully startled by the noise; her head snaps up, and she catches her breath. She is amazed that she could have been so lacking in vigilance and relaxed in public. Her heart pounds, and in the instant required to fold the newspaper, she is ambushed by bodily feelings and even a smell that have nothing whatever to do with the depot on this uneventful morning. If she could identify the smell, which she never will, she would call it "chlorine." She feels a sudden rigidity in her chest, as if her lungs had just turned to stone, and has an almost overpowering impulse to get out of there, to run.

In a heartbeat, the present is perceptually and emotionally the past. These fragments of sensation and emotion are the amygdala­mediated memories of an afternoon three decades before, in Beverly's tenth summer, when, walking home from the public swimming pool, she saw her younger sister skip into the street and meet an immediate death in front of a speeding car. At this moment, thirty years later, Beverly feels that way again.

Her sensations and feelings are not labeled as belonging to memories of the horrible accident. In fact, they are not labeled as anything at all, because they have always been completely without language. They belong to no narrative, no place or time, no story she can tell about her life; they are free-form and ineffable.
Beverly's brain contains, effectively, a broken warning device in its limbic system, an old fuse box in which the fuses tend to melt for no good reason, emphatically declaring an emergency where none now exists.
Surprisingly, she will probably not wonder about or even remember the intense perceptual and emotional "warnings," because by the next heartbeat, a long-entrenched dissociative reaction to the declared emergency may already have been tripped in her brain, to "protect" her from this "unbearable" childhood memory. She may feel strangely angry, or paranoid, or childishly timid. Or instead she may feel that she has begun to move in an uncomfortably hazy dream world, far away and derealized. Or she may completely depart from her "self" for a while, continue to act, but without self-awareness. Should this last occur in a minor way, her total experience may be something such as, "Today when I was going to work, the train pulled into the station—the blasted thing is so loud!—and the next thing I remember, it was stopping at my stop." She may even be mildly amused at herself for her spaciness.

Most of us do not notice these experiences very much.

 

[RedFox]

Thanks Bo thats exactly it! :)

Yes, in addition to obvious triggers, there are also very subtle details like a smell, a colour, a sound that can trigger programs.

So when self-observing one should not only monitor obvious triggers but also subtle ones. Otherwise one can easily think he's getting crazy or beamed by hyperdimesional entities because one can see a program running while not identifying any trigger.

I totally agree...the triggers can be extreamly subtle, even insidouse (or so they seem to me) in there disguises. Perhaps the winces come when you've managed to disable the dissacociating program long enough for the shock to be registered conciousely, before the its then disacociated again.....the thin end of the wedge?

A few days ago I was walking somewhere (I don’t remember where), when something triggered a very brief,but VERY INTENSE feeling of absolute desperation, kind of a crushing sensation of utter despair. It lasted only a fraction of a second, but it was quite disturbing. It has happened many times in the past, often triggered by some particular smell or view.

.....she is ambushed by bodily feelings and even a smell that have nothing whatever to do with the depot on this uneventful morning. If she could identify the smell, which she never will, she would call it "chlorine." She feels a sudden rigidity in her chest, as if her lungs had just turned to stone, and has an almost overpowering impulse to get out of there, to run.

 

[nicklebleu]

I've read the "Myth of Sanity", in fact not long ago - and frankly, I haven't thought about these episodes in this way. They do not happen very frequently, but I will try next time to ivestigate the circumstances and feelings involved a bit more - if I can...

Thanks for the suggestion!