Women Who Love Psychopaths

[EmeraldHope]

Yes, in the future, I must be aware of the red flags, there were many. This was the first relationship I entered in 15 years because the fellas I chose were inappropriate. So just taking a sabbatical without education does not work.

Catori,

When I first started my personal journey 10 years ago, it was due to my relationship ending with a full blown psychopath. I had the epiphany that all my relationships had been insane, and the only common denominator to all of them was ME. It hit me that I evidently did not really even know what "love" was, obviously, or the definition of a healthy relationship. I spent a fortune on self help books.

It was quite a while later before I found this forum's BIG 5 psychology books. They are:

Myth of Sanity - Martha Stout
The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
Trapped in the Mirror - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers - Barbara E. Hort
In Sheep's Clothing - George K. Simon

I would have saved myself a lot of time and effort had I had the FIRST.

While understanding and learning the danger signs and the issues of psychopathy, BPD, and other disorders is a MUST, this other side of the coin, which is addressing yourself, is just as important. Good luck to you!

 

[EmeraldHope]

Notice this in particular:

After the attraction phase has begun, emotional and physical intimacy creates a love bond. In the early stages of intimacy building, verbal sharing of feelings and ideas lay the foundation of the love bond. Men high in psychopathic traits don’t have the normal spectrum of emotions so they compensate by being great talkers. A range of intense emotions generally makes normal men less talkative because they feel inhibited by these emotions. Men usually don’t cope with emotions by sharing them the way women do. Women then tend to read the psychopath’s sharing of “emotions” in a positive light. Psychopaths are known for their “gift of gab” from which their charm and charisma flow. Women often think they have hit the jackpot with the psychopath because they are used to inhibited normal men, who don’t talk much about their feelings. But along comes the loose-tongued psychopath who can charm her with the flowery language of love. Sharing of feelings, talking, and early eye-gazing are the beginning phases of creating the woman’s love bond. The more they talk, share feelings, spend time together, and make intense eye contact, the deeper she will attach.

This is the key to what I was writing about above: the intellectual center is engaged and the potential lovers come to know one another deeply via communication. The psychopath totally fakes this phase with lies and a mask.

That then fires up the emotional center.... which kicks the moving/sex center into gear and off they go.

It's actually worse than having a relationship with an ordinary person who is just physically attractive. In this latter case, when the physical attraction wears off, that's it, finis, over, sayonara. It hurts some, but it doesn't feel like your soul has been eaten.

With the psychopath, the woman has been engaged on all three levels IN THE CORRECT ORDER. But it is all based on fraud, lies, imitation, mimicry.

I think that there is something about this order of engagement that we need to pay attention to.

As for the "risk taking correlate," I'm not sure that this is exactly what it appears to be. In the case of the psychopath, they take risks not so much because they have high testosterone but because they have a LACK of fear of consequences, a lack of imagination of consequences and future. In the case of the women involved, it may relate more to having an imagination and also being generally courageous, keeping in mind that courage is not lack of fear, but rather doing things in spite of fear. I think that this aspect should have been broken down and examined more carefully, but that's really a minor issue.

What we see with the "normal guys" who are inhibited is that their fear controls them. A woman who is courageous and is not controlled by her fears (even if she has them) may find it difficult to respect a man who is controlled by emotional inhibitions. That is the problem of the intellect usurping the energy of the emotional center - men whose thinking is controlled by their damaged and/or undeveloped emotions.

Yes, indeed, normal men are at a very distinct disadvantage in comparison with the psychopath who creates the illusion of a guy whose mind is not entrapped by his neuroses.

But what if sincere guys, guys with heart and a lot to offer, could learn to get over their neuroses and perform this evolutionarily programmed courting process properly and with truth and honor?

I know it has been a while since this has been discussed, but I am a little late to the party. I will preface this to say that I meet/met just about every characteristic outlined in WWLP.

Laura has hit onto something very accurate in the above quote, I think. In fact, in my life it has only been the psychopaths that have engaged me in this order.

As for the "risk taking correlate", In addition to what Laura says, I think it is something else also. It may have something to do with what is termed "peak experience". My psychopath said many times he did not feel alive unless there was some sense of danger present. An example of some of the activities he was attracted to are bungee jumping, sky diving, stock car racing, and a lot of Xtreme sports.

The "normal guys" always seemed "boring" to me. Oftentimes, I felt like their mommy. I mean that in the sense that I was there for their emotional needs but it wasn't reciprocated. There was so much I wanted to do and try and they seemed too scared. Any type of relationship that went beyond friends usually ended up with me becoming passive/aggressive to push them away because of my lack of respect on the one hand, and not wanting to hurt them on the other.


I will say though that every one of these pathologicals in my past reeled me in with my empathy. That was the hook every single time. Of course not until after quite some time of showing me how much we had in common. I never once was attracted to these men initially. It was only after it 'seemed we had so much in common". In hindsight now I see that I was being studied like prey . But see, that attention to detail is where they really can suck you in. For example, I had one time said I loved tropical flowers. The first Valentine's Day after I met the last one, which I call my King Psycho, lol, he sent me Tropical Flowers. Now we weren't even dating at that point. He said he remembered I liked them and was thinking of me . That particular comment I had made had come up in conversation months before, and I actually said it to another co worker of ours- not to him directly. He was standing there though.
So to me I thought- WOW! Someone actually pays attention! Finally, someone sees me for ME! Finally someone that can give like I can give. Boy was I wrong, lol.

Anyway, after a while of softening you up, the hook always comes. Something "happens" in their life. No one understands and they are in pain. They have no clue how something like this could happen to them. And of course , you, the victim, after seeing how sweet and sensitive they have been for so long rush in to help.Empathy is a very dangerous thing to have if you don't understand how it can affect your boundaries. I literally can feel another person's pain which isn't a good thing, because until I worked on that I seemed to sometimes try to take on their pain as my own and try to " fix" it.

During the honeymoon phase I never felt so loved, understood, and supported in my whole life. It waslike a drug but it felt like a "soul " connection. As a result of that, I accomplished more things , my creativity hit new heights, I had boundless energy, and everyone I knew benefitted. Of course this is also the period when all the rest of my walls came down and I poured my heart out to him. I think the reason why they then start to devour you is because they have no choice. The only way things can go forward from there is with real intimacy and they cannot do it.

The next phase is to pull the rug completely out from underneath you. It is the most brutal thing ever because for the first time you have laid yourself bare, and you are now REJECTED in entirety.


After years of tearing apart my psychology and psyche I have been able to trace the one program for me that made it possible for me to buy the lie and get sucked into this. That program was " All people are good some just have problems. If you love them enough it will all work itself out" On a very deep level, and I now know where it came from, and against all objective evidence, I did not think there was any such thing as "evil".

I am not the same as I was before this happened, but I am glad. I would not know what I know now if this hadn't have happened and been so devastating.

 

[Laura]

Catori, one thing that bugs me: you said you had to put down two 11-month old dogs. Can you tell me a bit about this? Why?

 

[Catori]

Hi Laura, Joy my 16 month old got pregnant way to early at 6 mos. I think because she was so young her pups did not develop a healthy immune system. At 3 mos of age they developed demodetic mange which is due to a suppressed immune system. Of course, as I tell this story I also learned quite a lot about modern medicine and homeopathic practices. The vet treated their mange with a topical treatment similar to Advantix or Frontline called Promaris which addresses all fleas, ticks, mosquito's and mange mites. This I learned is a poison and further suppressed their systems. They had me put it on every 15 days and at one point they were both so weak from the dosage they put them on a course of antibiotics. Which I have learned kills all bacteria both bad and good - again suppressing their immune system. Never once did we address the immune system, at that point I asked what can I do to help the immune system and was given some Kells syrup. At the same time, they wanted to immunize the pups on time and was given their set of immunizations - which I have learned that I could have chosen not to do, immunizations should never be given to a sick dog. Then Faith went into heat, so I had them both spayed. After the spaying they were put on another course of antibiotics and once that happened, they developed a series of skin infections. Over a course of time they were on very strong doses of antibiotics, steroids and pain relievers. Every time they finished the course of treatment the infections came back. At that time, I went to the local health store. My pups had extreme blisters between their pads and couldn't walk, they had black skin all over their bodies, fur had come off their hinds ends, their vulva was enlarged and had trouble urinating, Hope couldn't walk, they had sores all over their body that would ooze blood and puss. For the next month and a half I tried a different method of treatment, at this time I was exhausted financially, emotionally drained and saw little progress. I read and read about systemic yeast overgrowth in the bodies. I was bathing them nightly, using special powder, yogurt, raw diets, supplements such as kelp and 5 fish oil capsules. If I had a ton of $ to provide the treatment they may have gotten better, but it is my belief that due to the previous treatments, I believe they were to sick. Hope became extremely depressed, she wouldn't get up any longer to great, and Faith reacted the opposite in a very aggressive manner. I have learned so much during this experience and Joy and I are grieving together.

 

[Catori]

Thank you Emerald Hope for your insight!

Are you a Pisces? I am another who truly feels others pain, but in addition, I am the happiest when I can be of service to others. However, in this particular relationship, I was willing to set aside my entire life, everything and he did say earlier this week that he was not good for me. I can't help but believe, that was an act to protect me. The road to acceptance or is full of feelings, denial, bargaining, anger, depression and grief.

Right now I am reading the Four Agreements, a quick read but thought provoking. I appreciate the list of readings, and will read them, but I want to distance myself from the situation. I am putting one foot in front of the other, allowing life to happen and to participate in it as best I can.

I am very fortunate to have supportive people around me. This weekend, a friend came over to visit went to the beach, another friend and I went to Providence Waterfire which is wonderful - you can google it. A long term high school friend is visiting from Florida and will be getting together with her and some high school friends I have not seen in years, then another friend invited me to a barbecue.

Initially, the shock and denial of what was happening consumed me and while I still am processing the grief of my pups and my friend. I am in need of building my spirit, yoga, EE. As I am writing this, I am processing and thinking at the same time, I don't know whether this is a good thing now!! I am guessing balance is required here?! In regards to my relationship it is not an all or nothing situation. I am now thinking that I should be reading the books at same time, while also working on my spirit.. Perhaps this is where I have been led a stray in the past. While working on uplifting my spirit. At the same time I am distancing myself from the original situation that brought about the heartache initially. The more I distance myself from the real problem. I become less and less interested in learning about it. Consequently, leaving myself open to others with the same characteristics. Does this make sense?

 

[truth seeker]

The more I distance myself from the real problem. I become less and less interested in learning about it. Consequently, leaving myself open to others with the same characteristics. Does this make sense?

I get what you're saying, but learning about the role you played in the dynamics of the relationship is what will truly help give you the tools to avoid getting into the same situation. The learning is for your betterment, not the other persons. Hope that makes sense. :)

 

[ana]

The more I distance myself from the real problem. I become less and less interested in learning about it. Consequently, leaving myself open to others with the same characteristics. Does this make sense?

I get what you're saying, but learning about the role you played in the dynamics of the relationship is what will truly help give you the tools to avoid getting into the same situation. The learning is for your betterment, not the other persons. Hope that makes sense. :)

Exactly, it is common to run away without looking back to stop suffering, but it has no comparison with looking deeply into the situations we live or have lived trying to see how we entered the equation so we can realy understand because then and only then we feel the liberation and joy that provides the true knowledge of a lesson learned that allows us to serve others.

 

[EmeraldHope]

Catori,
Yes, I too am a Pisces. March 16th to be exact. I also am the happiest when in service to to others but it has taken me a while to understand what that truly means in a healthy way, both for myself and for others involved. The relationship above was my tipping point and wake up call. This process has been a painful one. I have been in the fetal position more than once crying my heart out for humanity. It is one of the hardest things I have ever attempted to do. But, after some deep soul searching, I wanted to apply myself somewhere that could make the most difference. It takes quite a bit of work to figure out where and what that is. I still make mistakes.

The Four Agreements was one of the books I initially read, also. It does not ,however, address the deeper issues that are crucial. I cannot stress to you how much I wish I had the list I gave you in my hands when I was where you are now. In hindsight, saying to cut your ties now is very obvious to myself and others here. However, that is NOT how it happened in real time for me. I started to figure things out intellectually long before my heart caught up. I was also in a situation where I couldn't just walk away. My psychopath was my personal assistant in a corporate environment. I had to sit in the same area as him everyday. There was no way not to interact. So I was having to process shock, grief,and denial AND interact in a sane manner all at the same time. I questioned myself a thousand times. I wanted it to not be true. I though maybe I was wrong. The only thing that saved me was working on myself. I eventually got to the point where I couldn't deny it any longer and had to leave the company.

One thing I learned about myself during that time was that empathy, while a good thing, if not properly used can be a tool to avoid facing your own self. I have always been a good listener and I have more often than not been the shoulder my friends seek to cry on. Before I learned to set good boundaries it was very easy to spend more time "helping" them than addressing my own life. I so very much wanted to "fix" everything and make their pain go away. However as you learn more, you may come to find out that behaviour is more STS, or selfish ,than what it appears to be on the surface.

Everytime , before the relationship above, I did what you are talking about- doing other activities, finding ways to make myself feel better, etc. I call these things now "avoidance behaviour". By never addressing my core issues all I did was attract a bigger badder version of what I was ignoring. The lesson keeps coming back around louder and louder until we " get it". I do not want to see that happen to you.


The more you work on yourself the more you will be able to REALLY help others,which if this is deep in your nature is very fulfilling. There is a difference between "helping" someone and being their lunch. Only by addressing yourself and also learning of the "other" will you really learn the difference

 

[Catori]

Yes, Truth Seeker, the answers lie within myself, it is the only thing I can change. Emerald Hope - I have written down the list of books and will go to the book store tommorrow and begin to purchase them and read each thoroughly - when I was writing this morning - I realized that I was also escaping the pain, I have seen this before in others. The more distant you become the less importance it has on your day to day. I thank you both, for your words of support while also keeping my focus on myself. The grief has waves - sometimes I am fine and then my mind starts. today I practiced EE on the way home and I really do think it helped and allowed me to calm down. I had intense desires to call and text, I did succumb to the desires, but did call a friend who asked me if he answered the phone what would you say- what am I looking for. I am looking for something he cannot give, feel rejected and abandoned. I need to learn why I feel this way, and perhaps I will find some solace if I begin to learn about me. I guess one good thing that has come out of this experience is the fact that he told me about this forum,and that I might find helpt here as he to has found guidance. A day at a time I hope to find the endurance and strength needed to overcome this situation. So, tonight complete the entire EE process I will begin quest of learning about muself. Thank you all for your truth and support - today was a doubling over of emotions that made driving difficult, I am walking in a fog - loosing strength. I must persevere

 

[EmeraldHope]

Hang in there, Catori.

You have my support, as well as many others here, I am sure.

 

[truth seeker]

I had intense desires to call and text, I did succumb to the desires, but did call a friend who asked me if he answered the phone what would you say- what am I looking for.

I'm sorry that you have to experience the grief that sometimes comes from these situations. Although it's difficult, one of the things that has helped me is cutting off all contact with the person. No phone calls, text messages or emails. Otherwise it just sets up a situation for further feeding and hurt to continue. The longer you continue to remain in contact with this person, the longer it takes to heal.

edit: I have even gone so far as to have their emails sent directly to trash and screened calls (if the person is calling you).

 

[ana]

I am looking for something he cannot give, feel rejected and abandoned. I need to learn why I feel this way, and perhaps I will find some solace if I begin to learn about me. I guess one good thing that has come out of this experience is the fact that he told me about this forum,and that I might find helpt here as he to has found guidance.

Is it possible then, that he is interacting in this forum, isn't?
How do you feel about it?

 

[Catori]

I have not seen him here since I have started - today was a better day. Like I said it comes in waves, some days are better than others. But tonight I plan to begin In Sheep's Clothing, suggested by Emerald Hope. First and foremost, I put my EE Cd's in, rather than turning on the TV. Changing behavior sometimes easier than other times. Sometimes, I just have to force myself to do the right thing - why is that - maybe my reading will assist me in finding the answers.

 

[Oxajil]

I have not seen him here since I have started - today was a better day. Like I said it comes in waves, some days are better than others. But tonight I plan to begin In Sheep's Clothing, suggested by Emerald Hope. First and foremost, I put my EE Cd's in, rather than turning on the TV. Changing behavior sometimes easier than other times. Sometimes, I just have to force myself to do the right thing - why is that - maybe my reading will assist me in finding the answers.

Stay strong Catori, you'll get over it and you'll grow stronger from it. The most important now is gaining knowledge and understanding of the situation you were in, so that it won't happen again, like others have said. I think it's really great that you're doing EE, I think it will strengthen your will (in doing the right thing).

Happy reading :)

 

[ana]

I have not seen him here since I have started - today was a better day. Like I said it comes in waves, some days are better than others. But tonight I plan to begin In Sheep's Clothing, suggested by Emerald Hope. First and foremost, I put my EE Cd's in, rather than turning on the TV. Changing behavior sometimes easier than other times. Sometimes, I just have to force myself to do the right thing - why is that - maybe my reading will assist me in finding the answers.

What i was trying to understand is how is it that you trust and start to interact in the same forum of someone you describe with psychopathic characteristics, it is kind of contradictory. That's why i asked you how do you feel, not about your overall experience with him but of you being here knowing him is probably interacting here too.