Women who seek knowledge

[Joe]

I’ve studied the “woke” extensively. I know it when I see it and I’m seeing it. And yes this is our concern.

Perhaps there some pattern recognition running amok in this case. If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

 

[Joe]

I came across what I consider to be a bad idea because I think it rhymes very much with damaging critical theories. Is it possible that I am wrong? Absolutely!

Well, take a chill pill and reflect for a while. There are biological, psychological and emotional differences between men and women. Those differences directly impact the lived experience of each gender. It is important, and should be interesting, for each gender to learn about those differences in the other, because it can lead to increased understanding and empathy.

 

[Joe]

Notice that she doesn’t seem to think that the life of her husband of past life likely died in battle so the level of oppression is up for debate already. Followed directly by a description of the Neanderthal like men that occupied her home area.

She didn't comment on the life of her husband of past life. That's an assumption on your part.

This is wrapped up with a request to have a women’s only discussion of “the work”. I think the Original Post has too much oppressor / oppressed focal point for it to be considered a good idea for discussion, especially if its attempt is to only discuss ‘one side of the story’ or ‘no men allowed’.

No mention was made of discussing only one side of the story. It seems you were triggered by a 'feel' that you got from the post and that set you off into assumption and projection land.

I do have a problem when we are looking at the work through a lens that has assumed oppression baked into it and it is not obvious to me that men have had an advantage to women in regards to “the work”.

I'm pretty amazed by the extent of your assumptions here.

To answer your question on whether or not I trust the group. Yes. This is the best place in town but that requires maintenance. If we aren’t vigilant we can not preserve integrity.

Well, as you can see, we're on top of things, including those whose own prejudices would lead them to unconsciously seek to shut down open discussion here.

 

[Michael B-C]

I shall retreat and contemplate on this matter. I did not mean to create division.

I don't think you need to do that Sybill nor do I think you create division. You've opened up a debate and that's only valuable for everyone whether they enage or just observe to learn. We can't here end up going down this route:

Trans activists fuming as BBC executive tells staff that journalism can hurt their feelings ​

So I for one would welcome it if you maybe started again where you set off (but perhaps a degree wiser concerning context?) and shared more on what you wanted to bring to others attention?

 

[Joe]

I shall retreat and contemplate on this matter. I did not mean to create division.

It was not you who created division.

 

[SOTTREADER]

I try to understand things from a different point of view, however, it is not easy, as our objectivity could be clouded involuntarily. I never meant to offend any men. I do apologize if I did. What I meant with my historical evaluation is, that these are facts but no one's fault. It was a societal reality. Women have reinforced these ideas just like men. Surely, under no circumstances you would call Cicero a Neanthertal because he was ferociously attacked women who were engaged in legal matters and politics. Cicero absolutely adored his daughter and he was shattered to pieces when she died in her teens after childbirth. One may see this as a contradiction. It is not. It was the gender reality of that time. In a large number of countries, women's only expected role is being a wife and mother. I would not call the men of these countries Neanthertal.
I tried to approach the seeking of knowledge from a female perspective. It is undebatable that everybody was suffering one way or another. However, being a mother greatly reduced one chance to learn and expand unless she was very wealthy.
It is not the fact that Henchman criticized me, it is HOW he did it. In an uncivilized manner. I love nothing more than a good intellectual debate. However, I shall not engage in name-calling and spitting.
I shall retreat and contemplate on this matter. I did not mean to create division.

All the above sounds reasonable to me @Sybill. I just wanted to point out that it was the initial "framing" that would have instigated what appears like conflict and you being misunderstood. I'm sure you'll appreciate this given the polarising nature of anything that appears "woke". Not that I'm saying you are woke - just highlighting the framing which would have given it a certain tint to others with a certain predisposition.

Anyways, I actually think it interesting this thing you're saying about mothers and knowledge! I think it's undeniable that in a traditional role the woman would mostly tend to the home and family and may not necessarily be encouraged by society to go out into the world. If I'm understanding you correctly, this in turn may reduce her chances of getting knowledge. It's interesting and I'd agree but also challenge.

I'd distinguish what kind of knowledge we're talking about. If academic and functional knowledge in terms of how things operate in the world, then maybe, depending on what opportunities and exposure the mother in question would have had. Same would apply to men but I think you are saying most men wouldn't have faced the same limitations. If esoteric knowledge, then I'd challenge and say that I think such knowledge will come through from one's willingness to learn from their own individual life experiences. These are my current thoughts but willing to learn and see what others think.

It's also interesting that you acknowledge that roles are not necessarily imposed on one group by another but could take on a position where the different groups believe this is how things should be - that this is the natural balance. This is where things can get murky - in one sense, I do tend to think their are natural balances where things aren't "equal" in the way we'd measure it but rather compliment each other in maintaining overall stability (e.g. a father working and a mother taking care of kids) but I also think that there could be pathological elements that result in certain balances (e.g. in Sharia law, women let's say have to cover up and most may accept this but I don't think this came about non-pathologically per se). Also, it's not to say that a balanced position (e.g. man work, woman stay at home) is static in time. Surely it should have the flexibility to adjust to changing times and the demands of those changing times.

It's a weird subject because things aren't necessarily locked in place and a person's viewpoint or vantage point could heavily influence what they perceive to be true!

 

[pinkfreud]

I wholeheartedly would like this thread to continue as well, with everyone’s participation.
I can offer that before I had my daughter and for the first few years of her life I battled very much with that “murky” sense of oppression.
I also have a very strong “make nice” program, and have been working very much on how to say no to thoughts, sensations, and impressions I experience that might take me back to regarding myself as subjecting to a person or idea.

So I am benefiting from Henchman’s reaction, as I had the same “triggered” response internally. Maybe my “make nice” program saved some egg on my face, but it is so often hard to tell.

Again I stress that these are judgements on myself and not on Sybil or Henchman.

 

[Sybil]

All the above sounds reasonable to me @Sybill. I just wanted to point out that it was the initial "framing" that would have instigated what appears like conflict and you being misunderstood. I'm sure you'll appreciate this given the polarising nature of anything that appears "woke". Not that I'm saying you are woke - just highlighting the framing which would have given it a certain tint to others with a certain predisposition.

Anyways, I actually think it interesting this thing you're saying about mothers and knowledge! I think it's undeniable that in a traditional role the woman would mostly tend to the home and family and may not necessarily be encouraged by society to go out into the world. If I'm understanding you correctly, this in turn may reduce her chances of getting knowledge. It's interesting and I'd agree but also challenge.

I'd distinguish what kind of knowledge we're talking about. If academic and functional knowledge in terms of how things operate in the world, then maybe, depending on what opportunities and exposure the mother in question would have had. Same would apply to men but I think you are saying most men wouldn't have faced the same limitations. If esoteric knowledge, then I'd challenge and say that I think such knowledge will come through from one's willingness to learn from their own individual life experiences. These are my current thoughts but willing to learn and see what others think.

It's also interesting that you acknowledge that roles are not necessarily imposed on one group by another but could take on a position where the different groups believe this is how things should be - that this is the natural balance. This is where things can get murky - in one sense, I do tend to think their are natural balances where things aren't "equal" in the way we'd measure it but rather compliment each other in maintaining overall stability (e.g. a father working and a mother taking care of kids) but I also think that there could be pathological elements that result in certain balances (e.g. in Sharia law, women let's say have to cover up and most may accept this but I don't think this came about non-pathologically per se). Also, it's not to say that a balanced position (e.g. man work, woman stay at home) is static in time. Surely it should have the flexibility to adjust to changing times and the demands of those changing times.

It's a weird subject because things aren't necessarily locked in place and a person's viewpoint or vantage point could heavily influence what they perceive to be true!

I am aware, to a certain level, that extreme polarization has been instigated by the negative forces. Certain level, because I am not participating in the trance formation of the world through mass media ( Cathy OBrien ). I had to google what 'woke' means!

In terms of academic knowledge, it was the womenfolk who were opposed loud when I was desperate to break out of the 'kitchen'. Female family members, teachers, 'friends of friends. It was so obvious to them that I DONT need academic knowledge.
For esoteric knowledge, I would say it started as spiritual self-seeking. It did not start until I became more mature after my daughter was born. In my case, I hasn't grown up until I became a mother myself. I suffered in consecutive marriages where I was torn between the psychological welfare of my child and the judgement of society on women who dare to divorce. This suffering helped me to grow spiritually and make the right decision.
The true awakening on the nature of our illusion struck me after my son was born, many years later. The horrors of our reality filled up my body and made me totally disillusioned about everything. It was partially due to the hormonal changes after I gave birth. If I would not have my son, I don't think that I would be able to feel, understand and process what I have learned.

Motherhood helped me expand and grow through suffering and realization. In my case, it was through a specific point of view, as a mother.

It would be interesting how and why other women started accumulating knowledge and came down the 'rabbit hole'.

As Kate Awakening said once: 'I used to be a nice girl before I became a bitter bitch'. ( she referred to her awakening )

 

[SevenFeathers]

'I used to be a nice girl before I became a bitter bitch'.

Ha! I can totally identify.

 

[Expedition26]

I am aware, to a certain level, that extreme polarization has been instigated by the negative forces. Certain level, because I am not participating in the trance formation of the world through mass media ( Cathy OBrien ). I had to google what 'woke' means!

In terms of academic knowledge, it was the womenfolk who were opposed loud when I was desperate to break out of the 'kitchen'. Female family members, teachers, 'friends of friends. It was so obvious to them that I DONT need academic knowledge.
For esoteric knowledge, I would say it started as spiritual self-seeking. It did not start until I became more mature after my daughter was born. In my case, I hasn't grown up until I became a mother myself. I suffered in consecutive marriages where I was torn between the psychological welfare of my child and the judgement of society on women who dare to divorce. This suffering helped me to grow spiritually and make the right decision.
The true awakening on the nature of our illusion struck me after my son was born, many years later. The horrors of our reality filled up my body and made me totally disillusioned about everything. It was partially due to the hormonal changes after I gave birth. If I would not have my son, I don't think that I would be able to feel, understand and process what I have learned.

Motherhood helped me expand and grow through suffering and realization. In my case, it was through a specific point of view, as a mother.

It would be interesting how and why other women started accumulating knowledge and came down the 'rabbit hole'.

As Kate Awakening said once: 'I used to be a nice girl before I became a bitter bitch'. ( she referred to her awakening )

Ok, @Sybill thank you for the clarification I see where you’re coming from now. When I first read your post I guess I personally found it deluded with the past lives comment and I understood why @Henchman 21 felt it had a feminist tone.

I would even say I was slightly “triggered” by the woman/mother part, especially when past lives are brought up, because there are plenty of men here who can probably identify with their female past lives.

Anyway, my journey to this site/forum started in 2012 after I found Laura’s work during a month of clarity. I actually graduated from college with a Bachelor’s degree in Women’s and Gender Studies in 2011** (I was super woke at that time). After finding her work I read much of it and lurked the forum for years.

Fast forward to a few years ago when I decided to participate here a little and then dropped off because I was still doing the same crap I had been doing for a decade, smoking the reefer everyday and boozing it up almost as often.

Fast forward to motherhood. He is the only reason I can finally be a participant here, the only reason I am a sober member of society and because of him I finally put someone before myself. So, motherhood completely changed my perspective and made me a better person. I wouldn’t be able to participate in the forum if I hadn’t had him and stopped running the same burnt out programs.

Back to the female empowerment stuff, I think feminism has ruined a lot of things (in the world and my personal life), and there must be clarification between what was and what is and not to hold so much weight with what was. Were we oppressed? Certainly. Are we now? Not so much. And as someone pointed out earlier both men and women have been oppressed over the course of history so it’s quite subjective.

**Side note/noise: Shout out to Kyle Rittenhouse for trying to save Kenosha, Wisconsin.
UW-Parkside is my alma mater.

 

[Expedition26]

Also, @Sybill you mentioned being told by your mother/sisters that all you needed was to get married and be a wife, not to get an education. My experience was the exact opposite. I grew up in a single parent home and my mother was/is a huge feminist with the mentality of “I can do everything by myself, I don’t need a man” (even though she married after I grew up and left the home). I honestly wish I would have been shown that it is ok to just want to be a wife or mother and you don’t have to have a career or go on and get a higher education.

So, maybe as mothers now we have the opportunity to show our children that being educated is good and the desire to learn is good, but having a traditional family is just as good and whatever path they choose we support.

 

[msante]

No mention was made of discussing only one side of the story. It seems you were triggered by a 'feel' that you got from the post and that set you off into assumption and projection land.

Thank you Joe for this comment, apparently I was triggered by similar feelings because I also understood Sybill's initial post as an invitation only for women who are mothers and harboring a certain animosity against men in general. Now, reading the post again after reading the entire thread, I can realize how many assumptions one can make when coloring others' words with one's own brush. I have been observing this (in myself) for some time now but your post has made me see in a rather stark way how idiot unfair I can be and how much I have yet to tame the "beast" within.

 

[Joe]

Thank you Joe for this comment, apparently I was triggered by similar feelings because I also understood Sybill's initial post as an invitation only for women who are mothers and harboring a certain animosity against men in general.

I should add one thing: even if a post by someone 'sounds' like it might be going somewhere unreasonable, it is always a good idea to wait and see IF it goes there before jumping up and shouting 'fire!' and shutting what COULD be an open discussion, down. In fact, I find the best approach in such situations is usually to ASK QUESTIONS to get clarification on suspicions rather than leaping to definite conclusions on insufficient evidence.

 

[pinkfreud]

@Expedition26 thanks for sharing. It does seem like the role of women has now (in more recent history) visited both extremes and is working toward finding a balance. But my upbringing was similar to yours. I had some close relatives that grew up closer to Sybil, with a more stifling emphasis on tradition (or so I thought. Now not sure.)
My mother always made her own money, which was very empowering for her and was a good thing for me to be accustomed to - I am thankful. And I am also thankful that I learned how to get past flying into a rage over washing dishes
In fact I would say that nothing has brought me a sense of inner peace as reliably as working around the house or doing manual labor. It really is great for staying present, finding a flow, and practicing gratitude.
Also, I had to grow up fast whenI found out I was pregnant as well. And my sense of urgency about the work (mundane and spiritual) really took off when I realized I had to offer something to this new life.

 

[Uli]

Why do we have 2 lists - best paid Hollywood actor and best paid Hollywood actress?
Yes, women were and are enslaved by their biological function. We should talk about it. Thank you Sybill prophetesses, for opening up the discussion that pictured the state of things as they are.