Women who seek knowledge
- Thread starter Sybil
- Start date
AzarHyun
Jedi
An 80-year-old woman came to my work today. She is an illiterate old woman, she literally can't read or write anything. He lives relatively close to the city (20 km or less). Her husband and son died in the war 27 years ago. He is trying to get an additional pension from his late husband. She is entitled to that pension but she did not know about it (she could have gotten it many years ago). She repeated several times that she was illiterate and did not go to school because she had to look after cattle and sheep. She is now alone and quite helpless to cope. Now she's sorry she didn't force her to write and read. She is aware of how much easier it would be for her. I tried my best to listen to her, help her and do everything in my power. She said that a middle-aged man working in a pension office was very rude and told her: "What do you need that pension for now? You already get one piece from another state." (that part is 120 €). That's all her income. She cried. What kind of soulless man is that, I wondered?
I talked about it with my girlfriend later. She was suprised at that grandmother for never learning to read, but she didn’t judge her. She said: "Okay, she didn't have a chance when she was young and her parents didn't send her to school. But later, in the last 40 years, there was certainly an opportunity for her to learn to read."
I then remembered my grandmother who was also illiterate. She lived most of her life in a small town. She hung out and drank coffee with women who were educated, one was a teacher (if I remember correctly). My father graduated from college and her husband was a police officer. She was, to put it mildly, lazy. Most of the housework was done by my grandfather after he retired. He looked after me, cooked, did the laundry, went to the market, paid the bills. He did almost everything. She was a ‘lady’, who had her own coffee drinking routine with her friends. She never expressed a desire to learn to read, she didn’t need to. Luckily for her, she always had someone to do things for her.
My two cents and two stories about two women.
I talked about it with my girlfriend later. She was suprised at that grandmother for never learning to read, but she didn’t judge her. She said: "Okay, she didn't have a chance when she was young and her parents didn't send her to school. But later, in the last 40 years, there was certainly an opportunity for her to learn to read."
I then remembered my grandmother who was also illiterate. She lived most of her life in a small town. She hung out and drank coffee with women who were educated, one was a teacher (if I remember correctly). My father graduated from college and her husband was a police officer. She was, to put it mildly, lazy. Most of the housework was done by my grandfather after he retired. He looked after me, cooked, did the laundry, went to the market, paid the bills. He did almost everything. She was a ‘lady’, who had her own coffee drinking routine with her friends. She never expressed a desire to learn to read, she didn’t need to. Luckily for her, she always had someone to do things for her.
My two cents and two stories about two women.
Sybil
Jedi
No women in my family were seeking knowledge. Simply because they were too tired, too miserable, and too poor to do it. The vast majority of women I know when I was a kid were just working nonstop. At the workplace, at home, at the fields. The wonders of socialism gave the women jobs but after the 8 hours in the factory, it was the 8 hours at home. At the weekends, go to the vegetable garden, the fields, do the laundry, etc... My mother did encourage me when she saw my obsessions for books, but in her opinion, only golddiggers could break out of the hamster wheel. Can't blame her. When I got older I understand what she saw, that liars, cheaters, and aggressive people seem to be better off than good and honest people. However, I could not identify myself with these traits.
My point is, knowledge was not identified with success, as long as you are not a doctor or solicitor. Because they have money and intellectual power. A well-educated and knowledgeable young woman actually find it more difficult to marry than a less educated one back those days. Partially because while they were studying, the other girls grabbed the available specimens to marry, partly because men were reluctant to marry smarty pants, as their own education was also low level.
My point is, knowledge was not identified with success, as long as you are not a doctor or solicitor. Because they have money and intellectual power. A well-educated and knowledgeable young woman actually find it more difficult to marry than a less educated one back those days. Partially because while they were studying, the other girls grabbed the available specimens to marry, partly because men were reluctant to marry smarty pants, as their own education was also low level.
Henchman 21
Jedi Master
To @Sybill and @Joe.
Sorry that I haven’t come back to this until today and to be clear I have come with my head hanging pretty low. My “external consideration” was so absent it might as well have been non existent. There was a good way for me to bring up my concerns and a bad way. I chose the bad.
Sybill I ran my ego around and I’m sure I sounded like a Jerk. Instead of politely enquiring more info and thinking up an appropriate way to ease into my concern, I jumped the gun and acted like an authoritative egotistical jerk and I am sorry.
Joe and others (I tagged Joe because he was early to the party to give me the reprimand I deserved) I did not have the intention of trying to speak for the “group” but that’s actually what I did. I saw a small issue and came at it like Rambo. Oh boy did I think I was winning the day.
I didn’t respond earlier because I had not yet gone through the five steps of being called out for being a jerk. I stayed on step one for a bit too long (“I’m not the jerk, Joe is”). I knew my logic was faulty when I asked myself why I listen to your show every week if you are such a jerk. I wasn’t satisfied with the answer of “I just really like listening to jerks.” So I moved on and accepted the undeniable fact that you were right. I still didn’t have the courage to acknowledge so I waited a bit longer. In order to grow I have to take responsibility for my actions.
As for any innocent bystanders let my example be a lesson that hopefully you can learn without going through. Remember to chill, stop and think and remember that Its not a good idea to flip out.
Sorry that I haven’t come back to this until today and to be clear I have come with my head hanging pretty low. My “external consideration” was so absent it might as well have been non existent. There was a good way for me to bring up my concerns and a bad way. I chose the bad.
Sybill I ran my ego around and I’m sure I sounded like a Jerk. Instead of politely enquiring more info and thinking up an appropriate way to ease into my concern, I jumped the gun and acted like an authoritative egotistical jerk and I am sorry.
Joe and others (I tagged Joe because he was early to the party to give me the reprimand I deserved) I did not have the intention of trying to speak for the “group” but that’s actually what I did. I saw a small issue and came at it like Rambo. Oh boy did I think I was winning the day.
I didn’t respond earlier because I had not yet gone through the five steps of being called out for being a jerk. I stayed on step one for a bit too long (“I’m not the jerk, Joe is”). I knew my logic was faulty when I asked myself why I listen to your show every week if you are such a jerk. I wasn’t satisfied with the answer of “I just really like listening to jerks.” So I moved on and accepted the undeniable fact that you were right. I still didn’t have the courage to acknowledge so I waited a bit longer. In order to grow I have to take responsibility for my actions.
As for any innocent bystanders let my example be a lesson that hopefully you can learn without going through. Remember to chill, stop and think and remember that Its not a good idea to flip out.
Expedition26
Jedi
In general men across the board (all over the world) do not marry women who are more intelligent than them. Dr. Jordan Peterson goes into detail about this in his lectures (you can find a lot of his work on YouTube). If you haven’t read or listened to him I would highly recommend it.
This post really touched me. To think of this woman who feels/sounds to me as though she is very alone and pretty distressed... it sounds like she has nobody to advocate on her behalf (except you @AzarHyun!). From the sounds of things she has been ignored and most certainly not supported appropriately by the system (why am I not surprised
) I am unsure how much of this situation she finds herself in has been perpetuated by her inability to read, as I notice this also happens to people a lot who are fully literate and extremely articulate and vocal about their situation!I also notice the system seems to just walk all over people like this lady (illiterate or not!) I hope there is some avenue/recourse that can be followed up to positively resolve her situation, especially given she has been entitled to those payments for years - that would be a LOT of money to her and has the potential to make a huge difference to her wellbeing.
It’s beautiful to know that you listened attentively, with empathy and are doing all you can to assist her.
I can’t even begin to imagine how hard or empty my life would be without the blessing of literacy and the freedom and knowledge it has gifted me (especially since finding this tribe!). Perhaps this woman will seek out a community program to help her to read if she genuinely is interested. It would certainly transform her life. Especially some romantic reading! 
United Gnosis
Jedi Council Member
It's funny for some reason Steinem reminds me of that old feminist who recently disavowed her past stances, fully acknowledging it disinfo, not women's wants.
I looked up her name, not the same one, but it's still an interesting insight into the manipulation of the 'feminine perspectives' that came out of the last half-century.
Ina
The Living Force
The ruth, all be it incomplete, because it does not take into account the concurrent transformation of the male variable (JP) is in the desintegration of the family; the close family and the extended family.
Sybil
Jedi
We are all teachers and students. You were not the only one who was puzzled by my post. I think my academic background got the best of me. From my studies, I learned how important to create a scene, a background for your topic. I created a historical background, a scene, but created the wrong ambiance.
AzarHyun
Jedi
Of course, the system and bureaucracy are not sensitive and careful according to their internal laws. So while working on another bureaucratic job I tried to have a little more human approach to people. A little personal, without distance, to be understandable in expression and to joke whenever possible. Simple humor helps a lot in such situations. People accustomed to the arrogance of the administration react very positively to the first signs of "humanity" in the approach. It was my strategy, to make my job easier (there was less quarreling and tension in the office) and to help the client. I was looking for a win win situation.Sudeći po zvukovima stvari, ona je ignorisana i sasvim sigurno nije adekvatno podržana od strane sistema (zašto nisam iznenađena
What I have learned from people, according to Gurdjieff, they have a developed essence but no developed personality (lack of education and culture) is that they very often say most kindly: "Listen son, I don't understand anything in these 'paper works'. Please help and do all you can. " People with such an attitude would finish the job quickly and with minimal energy consumption. I have noticed that once the tactics of the "ignorant peasant" were carried out consciously and deliberately and that it brought success.
To add something to the topic, it is quite true that women may find it harder to pursue knowledge in the current world due to both biological and cultural demands. Biological processes apply a lot of pressure on females to mate and produce babies and the culture of Feminism and equality expects them to work and play the role of the breadwinner too. This doesn’t leave much time for a would-be mother to devote her time to pursuit of knowledge. Its not that it can’t be done, its just harder and would come at the expense of some other important activity.
It puts the whole "women being given voting rights" and equality etc movements in proper perspective. There were times when a man alone would bring home enough bacon ie money for a family to live comfortably. The economy and commodity prices reflected that reality. But that wasn't good news for the PTB so, they got the homemaker out of the home and to play an active part in the financial economy. The market forces reacted (as they do) and everything has inflated to create a reality where both husband and the wife need to work to have a roof over their heads.
In terms of why we might have more males on the forum vs females, the above explanation would apply but additionally, today’s males are comparatively more damaged with stunted emotional development forcing them to look for answers. A woman achieves emotional maturity much earlier than a male due to the experience of being pregnant and creation of new life. This occurs regardless of how she was reared by her parents. Such a woman may not seek answers from the get go due to the emotional fulfilment of having established a family. Men can only gain maturity from receiving proper love from their mothers first, followed by the fathers and finally through their wives.
Therefore, one could infer that the females on the forum might be lesser than males but they are comparatively more mature.
It puts the whole "women being given voting rights" and equality etc movements in proper perspective. There were times when a man alone would bring home enough bacon ie money for a family to live comfortably. The economy and commodity prices reflected that reality. But that wasn't good news for the PTB so, they got the homemaker out of the home and to play an active part in the financial economy. The market forces reacted (as they do) and everything has inflated to create a reality where both husband and the wife need to work to have a roof over their heads.
In terms of why we might have more males on the forum vs females, the above explanation would apply but additionally, today’s males are comparatively more damaged with stunted emotional development forcing them to look for answers. A woman achieves emotional maturity much earlier than a male due to the experience of being pregnant and creation of new life. This occurs regardless of how she was reared by her parents. Such a woman may not seek answers from the get go due to the emotional fulfilment of having established a family. Men can only gain maturity from receiving proper love from their mothers first, followed by the fathers and finally through their wives.
Therefore, one could infer that the females on the forum might be lesser than males but they are comparatively more mature.
LOL. Well, it's to your credit that you were able to get past your 'little I' on this one. Well done! And don't forget what I said in my other posts, we're not about to let any discussion here descend into convoluted nihilistic 'work' claptrap.
This is a useful angle on the problems that have faced most men in our culture for a very long time. Yes, women were suppressed and repressed in many ways, but the ones carrying the major burden of care were men. It was so in my family too.
Yup. And through it all, there are the fundamental genetic differences of the genders. You just can't escape that.
Another excellent point. I guess that's why I had to marry a physicist to find happiness... he's way smarter than me and always building me up. My ex was definitely not so smart and constantly felt like he had to break me down. It was debilitating and exhausting.
Sybil
Jedi
So true! I saw soo many wives belittle themselves in order to fan their husband's ego. They just cannot look smarter than their husbands. It's a real thing in many societies.
