You say you wish to be STO, but why?


Dagobah Resident
STS/STO is a concept used by both Ra and the C's. Both sources use it slightly differently; Ra says you gotta polarize either to near STS purity, or get a wee bit more STO than STS, to qualify for Harvest (an ominous analogy if I ever saw one), whereas the C's say this is a STS realm which makes us natives STS by default, and we'll never ever ever really understand what being STO is like unless, well, we are.

I like what the C's said because it's jaw-droppingly clear to me that this is STSville we live in, and indeed everything about it is, right down to our physiology. (And if anyone claims to be "rational" and to be acting of his own volition, I am already running for the hills because such a person does not know how absolutely "controlled" he is!)

However I'd like to ask why you (and not anyone in particular) profess to "want" to be STO or see that as a desirable outcome. Is it because the C's said that STO is balance, and you think, well balance is good, imbalance bad, therefore I want balance... Or that you associate STS with "bad" (despite being a STS class human, but that's beside the point) and STO with "good"? Notwithstanding even that pretty much all humans since birth tend to think of themselves as "good" no matter what they are (part of our basic wiring I'd say)?

Or do you think that being part of a network that "approaches" STO in some sense is your best bet to get you to the next level... Well forget about fourth density, did you know everybody goes to fifth density when they die? That's guaranteed to happen in your lifetime and is even "higher" than fourth, what do you say? Or if you go by what Ra said, it's just as hard to get harvested into 4D STO as it is to 4D STS, so why do you cling to the notion of being STO?

Just some of my thoughts and questions...

P.S. You know, the P's in one of their books said that they joked about how people would always write in saying they were part of the "Family of Light" and no one ever wrote in saying they were part of the "Family of Dark"... :lol:
Interesting questions and here are my thoughts on them. I think the question is like an analogy, "Everyone who joins a chess club either wants to or likes playing chess. Some may stick with it and some may leave, realizing they do not like chess." I think people come here because some part of the material resonated or made sense to them. Maybe they're tired of the STS lifestyle. And of course, some go their separate ways when they find out this is not for them. That's not to say they go "straight to the dark side" so to say.

I think if we were really polarized the opposite way, we'd be finding ourselves in darker avenues, like in gangs, practicing game theory, maximizing serving ourselves. And I guess we have "1000 years" to figure out which way we'll go? Not sure if that's literal or just a sort of subjective feeling of 1000 years.

I don't say that, "I want to be STO." Again it's really just the fact of being a member of the forum and your actions that hint at a leaning towards an STO lifestyle.

Muxel said:
However I'd like to ask why you (and not anyone in particular) profess to "want" to be STO or see that as a desirable outcome. Is it because the C's said that STO is balance, and you think, well balance is good, imbalance bad, therefore I want balance... Or that you associate STS with "bad" (despite being a STS class human, but that's beside the point) and STO with "good"? Notwithstanding even that pretty much all humans since birth tend to think of themselves as "good" no matter what they are (part of our basic wiring I'd say)?

I have a hard time conceptualizing or mathematically realizing the STS and STO balance issue. I'm not sure if I can explain it. But balance is balance, 50/50. You can have too much balance, but then that is not balance anymore. And you can have too much imbalance, but that is still imbalance.. Balance itself calls for 50/50, right? And Imbalance can go either way, more towards STS or more toward STO. I think the C's hinted that because Earth is so STS polarized, that somewhere else in the Universe, there is a more balanced planet. I think I get confused because I think of it like: in a region of the Universe, is the balance (STO) balanced, and is the imbalance (STS) imbalanced? Or is there and imbalance in the balance (STO), or a balance in the imbalance (STS). If anyone knows what I'm trying to conceptualize, please explain it better. :lol: :P

Back to STO: I'd say that I do want to get out of here. Some of this stuff gets old. It seems that STO makes more sense, and when you have many people, you all share a little of the burden. The proof is in the pudding as they say, and there is a lot of work that goes into learning these things. The STS being would just try to cheat their way to the top and hold all the knowledge to their selves.

Regarding the "Family of Dark": I think they simply would not think of members of that "club" as family, just resources to be used. And of course they would wear a mask and not admit they are a part of that family.

Anyways thanks for the thread, it was thought provoking.
It's funny that if you list the motivations for being STO, they tend to be quite materialistic. There are a lot of people who are miserable, and latch onto the STO concept as the solution to that problem.

In 3D I think it's more about not being any more selfish than you need to. Taking what you need, and giving back your excess. This is because your benefit is always someone else's loss. In 3D it can be no other way, I think. You can do at least good enough to not incur karmic debt.
I thought if STS mode is indeed deep in our physiology so the STO too. And this quest was triggered and continued from true curiosity about life (generally activated by good amount of suffering btw), we've learned after the fact what were these concepts of STO/STS, and as soon as there is a concept and feelings attached to it there is a desire, here on this earth at least. In fact I'm not sure what came first, but it's obvious that there is a dance between subconscious and conscious thought processes.

So, I think those who will graduate came from this true capacity and activation of the right pass right down into their physiology, it will be those who have transcend "wanting" to be... anything.

Personally I am still struggling with why I want to be STO/balanced. Why I continue to come back to this forum, despite my insecurities about the tremendous amount of efforts this task demand, just reading the main threads is huge, and it's far from what is called the Work. Is this to flee something or does have I a true curiosity ? Seems a bit of both, and I'm still working on it.
Good question, I wrestled with this question a few months ago. Trying to understand why I was involved in the work and what I was after. I realized that most of my previous drives were STS in nature(as the C's have stated about our inherent nature), as in I wanted something; either knowledge, less suffering, change the world, or a imaginary STO world resembling the golden age. I've learned since that I can't really want anything that I haven't experience myself or know about, and the wanting in and of itself is STS.

Now if I ask myself my reasons for doing the work, I honestly couldn't say. I seem to have an innate desire to be vs non being, and this desire is always in the back of my mind. It's something I've had for a while and can't seem to let go, like a calling. So I've let go of any anticipatory ideas about what will happen or were we are going and am just following my calling, focussing on learning, and advancing.

In the past few months I've come to deeply understand that things are perfect the way they are, and we will do what we will do. So I wouldn't say I wish to be STO, because how can you wish for something you have no idea about.
I never said to myself "I want to be STO", it's just that my heart is longing for more harmony, balance and communion that what we are experiencing in this STS world.
I wrote something in another topic that might apply here, with the terms "STS and STO" being substituted with separation and unity respectively.

So if we go with the idea of unity being the only true reality (and why not, it's a good theory) then the definition of its opposite i.e. illusion, in this context would be "the belief in separateness". But to test the theory that unity is the only true reality, we would have to look at the results of the belief in separateness/illusion vs a belief in unity of all things. We would also have to apply a value judgement to those results, i.e. determining that one is "good" and the other is "bad". But how do to that?

Well, I suppose one baseline criteria for determining "good" from "bad" would be which produces expansion and which produces contraction, or which thrives and which diminishes, with thriving being "good" and diminishing being "bad", for the simple reason that something that continually grows and expands into existence is "good" mainly because the end result of the opposite is 'nothingness', or as close as you can get to that, and what's the point of nothingness? It's not very interesting for sure, so it's "bad".

So does a belief in unity encourage expanded existence and does a belief in separateness do the opposite? That seems to be the case. For example, if I assume that unity of everything is the ultimate truth and put that belief into practice, I will tend to be cooperative with others and look to their welfare (because I see them as part of a whole of which I am a part and therefore those others are, to one extent or another, part of me) while at the same time not demanding that they accept my concern for their welfare, but rather extending the offer unconditionally. This kind of cooperation or giving (assuming you have willing partners) appears to encourage expansion and growth.

Conversely, a belief in separateness tends to encourage isolation and therefore contraction or the attempt to exploit or use others to sustain one's isolation or for one's own gain, in a kind of 'survival of the fittest, or 'dog eat dog' approach to existence. But a single person or 'consciousness unit' can only accrue to itself or embody so much of what appears to be limitless creative potential or diversity because of the limiting nature of or power inherent in a single unit of consciousness, especially if the ultimate reality is limitless diversity. So belief in separateness is ultimately a limiting approach to take, and therefore not sustainable, especially when we include what appears to the reality of 'free will' which presents a probably insurmountable obstacle to any 'consciousness unit' successfully subsuming all others into itself.

On a practical level of our human life experiences, following this path of a belief in unity of all things could be said to boil down to just a few simple aphorisms, one of which is "don't hurt others" (because they are you) which is similar to the idea of "do unto others are you would have them do unto you". Certainly, the effort to learn how to do that can take a whole lifetime, or many of them.
I too see it as a unity vs separation issue. As STO striving towards unity, and STS, striving towards separation. We have been scattered, (separated) in this density, with a forgetting thrown in the mix. At some point, some will be moved to find their way back home, and some will revel in the separation. And those caught in the middle are seen by the STS forces to be easy fodder for conquest, or food as it were. So I see STO as more of a journey, back to whence you came. It is a narrow path, and a road less traveled, with many perils waiting for you. But it seems if you sincerely believe that is your destiny, you keep your head down and your eyes on the road. OSIT
You say you wish to be STO, but why?
I don't, now only 'enjoying' what very little there is left to enjoy, before it's all gone. Life has become almost entirely clearing work / minimizing 'receptors' to chaos / drama / entropy, and ditching 'wants'.
There's a couple of things, I think that first Ra and the C's comments are talking about the same thing and not two separate concepts, yes we are in a STS realm but what does that mean? Ra mentions percentages, and throws in some clues.

I think that this question has only one answer, it is a choice.

I think that the main problem of humanity at large is not a problem of polarization, but a problem of awareness and understanding of the human condition.

The way I approach this question of our STS nature and why, is simply that we are all living in a spectrum between the two, STS and STO as humans, (not totally in one side and not totally to the other) and not only that, we have multiple phases, aspects, I's, dimensions or whatever, that also contain potential for the expression of these forces, we can express the STO principle in accordance to our condition to a degree, otherwise everything we do would be pointless. No?

So we are in a spectrum, and we have some potential to express both principles even as humans, our condition of existing in a human body and having this level of awareness, as well as the social influence which is part of our evolutionary mechanism of development and cosmic ones, put us in a position where the choices of polarity take place all the time and the overall inclination of the realms is STS.
some we are aware of, some we are not,some we can control and act upon, some we cannot fully or immediately or directly act upon because of the limitations that come with our existence.

So the whole idea of "why wanting to be STO since we are already STS" is really a matter of awareness and experience at this point in the cycle, the lessons are progressive and the elements of polarization are also progressive, so it is a matter of choice of existence rather than a quicker way to harvest.

Basically, the more aware we are, the more we know ourselves and the world, the more free from the illusion we are and therefore we are more free to choose. Like being in a dark room, we can only do so much, touch here and there and assume things, but if the light goes on, we can now see and act in awareness.

Some thoughts
How about something practical.

If you are angry with the state of the World, I suppose you could find ways to be of help in a network that tries to change it?

So what is stopping you from Doing so, why do you rather, watch tv, play video games etc. I think many of us have worthless hobbies to some extent. Worthless distractions that just sucks up time and energy for no good reason.

So if you want to be more STO, I think Doing is important in that context. Doing something that matters.

And being sincerely frustrated with yourself when you fall to your old worthless distractions.

This builds up a struggle and friction of wanting to become more STO. Because STS leads to nowhere. OSIT.
We can add the balance of experiences, falling back into old worthless habits or doing something significant seems to be the way the most human are living, and in my sense it's for us to choose between nowhere (STS) and now here (STO).

Awareness of the situation will lead to more conscious choosing and freeing, without increasing awareness there is no natural choosing and more orientation toward the true self. Those who do not choose will ever have this balance of experiences, in respect for their free will, as little as it might be, for them to choose their path. But if there's no choosing I think recycle is in order.
Or to put what I said another way, and to maybe more directly respond to Muxel's question: the record of human history suggests that "STS", taken to its logical extreme (which is generally tends to do once if takes hold) leads to destruction and chaos on planet earth. "STO" being the opposite of that would seem to the more rational choice for all human beings, assuming they have a general dislike for destruction and chaos. Unfortunately, it seems there might be a decent number of people who have not had enough (or any) experience of destruction and chaos, so they're kind of ok with it, or even think it's 'fun'.
Why I want to be STO? Well, one motivation I think for me is a selfish one, in a sense. Keep in mind that STO really means "serving self through serving others", that is, by serving others, we ALSO serve ourselves. What goes around comes around.

I think beginning the Work and following the path towards STO as it is continually developed here and laid out through feedback on specific situations is a leap of faith. But afterwards, it becomes much more: I experienced it many times how this path leads to a deep sense of happiness that I've never experienced before, not even close. It also means struggles and suffering, but that's only one part, the other being a complete and almost magical transformation of one's life in a positive way. Plus, slowly but surely, you get a glimpse of what it means to be the captain of your own ship, to not being subject to the whims of life, to experience balance and fulfilment. A lot of motivation right there!

Maybe there is a selfish element in all this that will one day disappear, kind of like Wittgenstein's analogy that you take a ladder to climb the wall, and once you are on top of it, you kick it away. Or maybe there is a selfish element present even in the true STO existence, like in the ying-yang symbol. Anyway, apart from what Joe said that I just cannot tolerate accepting all the suffering around us anymore, I also have enough of my own unconscious suffering and that of the people in my life. And once you start to see, to observe what is possible by trying hard to follow that path, there is no way you want to go back, even if that can be frustrating sometimes. Fwiw
Here is the thing, it is extremely hard to think about rationalizing the concept of STO, because there is no sense of rationality in it. Linear thinking is strictly STS, and the opposite of it is STO. You are STS if you are looking for logical explanations. STO beings do not drive the vessel but they just let things be without having the need to be attached to anything to make them happy. Except they are always there where are needed the most. They always know what to do to serve others. This is what I think. There is no 'want' in the STO concept. If you want to become one, then you are 'projecting' something into your own future that you wish to merge with, which is exactly the STS way of wishful thinking.
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