You say you wish to be STO, but why?

Unfortunately, it seems there might be a decent number of people who have not had enough (or any) experience of destruction and chaos, so they're kind of ok with it, or even think it's 'fun'.
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This is a very important quote, Joe. See where the 'fun' part goes to, the downward spiral of self-destruction along with everything else, then the Universe responds accordingly. Just like the way gravity works. Things will start to fall upon humanity so the spirit must be awoken first. It is because of those who are having the 'fun' experience, somebody must pay for the 'eternal bliss, unicorns and rainbows' by suffering through it. Scales are extremely tipped down towards the 'fun' side of life. Too much suffering on the other. We haven't seen nothing yet, but at least for me, it is 'fun' to observe and get involved with real life situations to learn from them. Because I want to learn by my life experience, and not by desiring to arrange my life models so I can get attached to for personal safety. Can't force myself into converting people either, but it surely does make my heart cry if I see another human heart in shambles, thank god for the internet...First goal is, total elimination of fear, now, that's a hard lesson to learn. Probably in the near future blessed will be the homeless, who knows..
 
Joe said:
Or to put what I said another way, and to maybe more directly respond to Muxel's question: the record of human history suggests that "STS", taken to its logical extreme (which is generally tends to do once if takes hold) leads to destruction and chaos on planet earth. "STO" being the opposite of that would seem to the more rational choice for all human beings, assuming they have a general dislike for destruction and chaos. Unfortunately, it seems there might be a decent number of people who have not had enough (or any) experience of destruction and chaos, so they're kind of ok with it, or even think it's 'fun'.
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It is true, for one the question is, do I like the world I know?

we can find a motivation in the terror we perceive in the world and choose to incline to the philosophy of serving others, knowing that the world is a STS playground and so long as we are here we are bound to any number of attacks and things. Lifetime after lifetime.

Sure , it is the only world we know, and how can we want something that we don't know, so I think that when the C's say , STO candidate, it seems to me a path in which we discover and create the ground for a new reality. Making the road with our footsteps, so to say, or the potential for. And by doing so, we are actually learning how to step out of this STS world.

Knowing what this world is like, and all the terror throughout history, and the pains for the sake of being food for something or someone else, seems realization enough for many, to be fed up. And also choosing the role in the big drama, of acting for or against these influences.


Sure you also have those who see the same and perceive something totally different, those who actually choose to serve themselves entirely and seek to be gods themselves as opposed to all being god.
 
Sure , it is the only world we know, and how can we want something that we don't know, so I think that when the C's say , STO candidate, it seems to me a path in which we discover and create the ground for a new reality. Making the road with our footsteps, so to say, or the potential for. And by doing so, we are actually learning how to step out of this STS world.
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Not even the C's could have said it better brother, because, guess what, the C's TOO (with a double O like 11) are learning from us..
 
An interesting discussion.

Having watched a number of Jordan Peterson videos and lectures, the thing that he advocates as the first step in 'sorting oneself out' and to orientate yourself in the world is to decrease suffering around you. He says that life is full of suffering (there is tragedy and there is evil) and in order to find meaning without becoming resentful (because life is so hard), he suggests one needs to be responsible; to voluntarily pick up the burdens/challenges and responsibilities in life and in doing so, aim to lessen suffering around you. Perhaps STS/STO may be interpreted as a desire to inflict suffering as opposed to bearing your own suffering and acting to decrease it around you. Perhaps that's too simplistic, but an interesting viewpoint nonetheless.
 
life is expansion right?

So that means that every day you are doing something to make your life here better and not just materially. You make a living for yourself and your family and then you also expand your mind and knowledge and by doing that it seems quite obvious that sooner or later it would surmount to knowledge that expands and not just how to get more stuff.

And then there is that need to know what comes after. To know why we are doing the things we are doing. To know that we are really beings and not just mindless bugs here to live for a second and not have mattered at all. And realising that we might be part of something big caters the need to belong and maybe therein lies the reason of wanting to go ''STO'' to belong to somewhere you need to become first.

Plus I'm really tired of the suffering in this world and on a very selfish note i don't want to see suffering anymore.
 
Arwenn said:
An interesting discussion.
(...)
Perhaps STS/STO may be interpreted as a desire to inflict suffering as opposed to bearing your own suffering and acting to decrease it around you. Perhaps that's too simplistic, but an interesting viewpoint nonetheless.
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Indeed, and this doesn't sound simplistic, it sounds practical, IMO.

I been thinking about it since Muxel ask the question. I don't know a lot of being of STO, but I know a lot of being of STS. And thing that I know is that I don't want to be STS and I want to learn how to be STO, or how to be more STO. And being 'good' opposite of 'bad' is different when this arises from knowledge and not from 'just' faith or because someone told us to be 'good'.
My problem is that I'm trying to understand STO from point of view of 4D, instead of learning what is STS in 3D.

I'm aware that my words could sound simplistic too, but even I don't have 'right' words to explain my self, I have big desire to get involved in this kind of discussion.
 
Muxel said:
However I'd like to ask why you (and not anyone in particular) profess to "want" to be STO or see that as a desirable outcome.
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Because it would be awesome to see how life on Earth would look like if things were different than they are today.


Joe said:
On a practical level of our human life experiences, following this path of a belief in unity of all things could be said to boil down to just a few simple aphorisms, one of which is "don't hurt others" (because they are you) which is similar to the idea of "do unto others are you would have them do unto you". Certainly, the effort to learn how to do that can take a whole lifetime, or many of them.
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luc said:
Why I want to be STO? Well, one motivation I think for me is a selfish one, in a sense. Keep in mind that STO really means "serving self through serving others", that is, by serving others, we ALSO serve ourselves. What goes around comes around.
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After watching the above video I stumbled on the following one. I didn't really research the speaker, beside the fact that he was mentioned on the forum several times. What he says in this video, though, is very sensible and similar to what has been said in this thread and other. I do disagree with what he said in the end of the video, that "the World is getting better". Perhaps only in a sense that we are getting closer to the peak of "separateness", and that the World is getting crazier by the minute. And that we have a long road ahead of us, and a lot of suffering, before mankind would choose something "better".

 
Readings your comment I really come to the conclusion that we have really just wait and see. Looking into ourself first, as Krishnamurti said the revolution is from within, first stop being in war within, and then understanding the world through your own innate experience, it all begin with silencing and listening.

I watched this two videos of Krishnamurti, one is in french where it talks mainly of his philosophy and it appears a very kind and gentle man. The other talk is in England (I think) in front of many people and mainly about the situation of the world and its history of wars, he appears much more rigid and attacking, pinpointing the delirium of the western society. I think Gurdjieff was probably of the same kind. It all come down to the psychology of the human being, whether or not he's in tune with his world and surrounding and how he has decided to teach himself to others.

#1 _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT4CzSoqbG4&spfreload=10

#2 _https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqlMD1J2JmM&spfreload=10#t=31.675782
 
The world is going to get much worse, it is inevitable, but the question is this. I ask myself this question all the time. What is it that I WANT to make the world a better place? The first thing that comes to mind is to be grateful, respectful and thankful to those who serve us. I think it is more than just giving 'a tip' to your waitress. I think it is more of the acknowledgment of the service been done for me. If someone shows me respect and gratitude, I respond the same way.

Next question: Why should I get mad or angry if things don't always go down my way? So I return back to my original question. What is this that I WANT to do to make this world a better place?

Next question: What do people really want from me? What is it that I have in me that I can offer to the world to make it a better place?

What does it feel right to do when life throws me a curve ball?

So many questions to be asked, but do really people have many question. It is also nice to know who build the pyramids, but see where we are now, it didn't help much, or did we learn our lessons?

Life is a very simple thing if the question is always asked? Why? Because without the question, there wouldn't be a point of anything. Not even Heaven, or 6D would've been there without 3D. And some people want to go to 4D...one day, I shall find out the truth about my own viewpoint of the multifaceted objective reality I live in. But do I make a noise, or do I do symphony? And even the sound waves I make, would they produce just a noise, or it is the intent behind the noise to convert it to music to someone's ears?

Thank You for being here
 
In regards to the "why" I think it can't be explained fully intelctually. Meaning, that it is just something one feels at a certain deep and unmistakable level as a drive that expresses itself "to strive to do what is right and good".

So approaching this from a purely intellectual way, one can never convey it to others, especially when others might not be able to feel it because their orientention is different aka. they follow another path. Or put in another way: One has to feel this certain something personally, to even be able to try to grasp it. Or still another way: it seems to be something that just is in ones nature or not (aka. a seed do develop a soul) and if one chooses to grow it or not.

So it seems one has to be one the same path so to speak (aka the STO path) to even understand or grasp the question not just intelectually.

Here is what Gurdjieff had to say about understandings and different views. Aka: There is an objective reality (the truth) and when we align ourselves towards it, there can not be a difference in the understandings/views of it, by others on the same path:

Gurdjieff from Ouspensky's In Search of the Miraculous (pages 310-311) said:
The humanity to which we belong, namely, the whole of historic and prehistoric humanity known to science and civilization, in reality constitutes only the outer circle of humanity, within which there are several other circles

So that we can imagine the whole of humanity, known as well as unknown to us, as consisting so to speak of several concentric circles.

The inner circle is called the ‘esoteric’; this circle consists of people who have attained the highest development possible for man, each one of whom possesses individuality in the fullest degree, that is to say, an indivisible ‘I,’ all forms of consciousness possible for man, full control over these states of consciousness, the whole of knowledge possible for man, and a free and independent will. They cannot perform actions opposed to their understanding or have an understanding which is not expressed by actions. At the same time there can be no discords among them, no differences of understanding. Therefore their activity is entirely coordinated and leads to one common aim without any kind of compulsion because it is based upon a common and identical understanding.

The next circle is called the ‘mesoteric’, that is to say, the middle. People who belong to this circle possess all the qualities possessed by the members of the esoteric circle with the sole difference that their knowledge is of a more theoretical character. This refers, of course, to knowledge of a cosmic character. They know and understand many things which have not yet found expression in their actions. They know more than they do. But their understanding is precisely as exact as, and therefore precisely identical with, the understanding of the people of the esoteric circle. Between them there can be no discord, there can be no misunderstanding. One understands in the way they all understand, and all understand in the way one understands. But as was said before, this understanding compared with the understanding of the esoteric circle is somewhat more theoretical.

The third circle is called the ‘exoteric', that is, the outer, because it is the outer circle of the inner part of humanity. The people who belong to this circle possess much of that which belongs to people of the esoteric and mesoteric circles but their cosmic knowledge is of a more philosophical character, that is to say, it is more abstract than the knowledge of the mesoteric circle. A member of the mesoteric circle calculates, a member of the exoteric circle contemplates. Their understanding may not be expressed in actions. But there cannot be differences in understanding between them. What one understands all the others understand.

In literature which acknowledges the existence of esotericism, humanity is usually divided into two circles only and the ‘exoteric circle’ as opposed to the ‘esoteric,’ is called ordinary life. In reality, as we see, the ‘exoteric circle’ is something very far from us and very high. For ordinary man this is already ‘esotericism.’

The outer circle’ is the circle of mechanical humanity to which we belong and which alone we know. The first sign of this circle is that among people who belong to it there is not and there cannot be a common understanding. Everybody understands in his own way and all differently. This circle is sometimes called the circle of the ‘confusion of tongues,’ that is, the circle in which each one speaks in his own particular language, where no one understands another and takes no trouble to be understood. In this circle mutual understanding between people is impossible excepting in rare exceptional moments or in matters having no great significance, and which are confined to the limits of the given being. If people belonging to this circle become conscious of this general lack of understanding and acquire a desire to understand and to be understood, then it means they have an unconscious tendency towards the inner circle because mutual understanding begins only in the exoteric circle and is possible only there. But the consciousness of the lack of understanding usually comes to people in an altogether different form.
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one can never convey it to others, especially when others might not be able to feel it because their orientention is different aka. they follow another path.
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The Forbidden Fruit of Knowledge. And this is my intellectual input as I agree that things are better felt then expressed in written language or math...

And knowledge is something that is very personal, it is there, fully integrated within, and without. Everybody has different life stories that are being recorded somewhere as we speak. This information cannot be lost nor can be erased but changes forms and expressions in so many different ways. The objective reality is the way how we perceive an object. Some may say it is ugly, some beautiful, some will feel nothing. We give meaning to things, different reasons why they are there. But we say and ask, why? Why is this object here, what is composed of, what is the structure, how do we put the object to use and for what purpose, and who will benefit from it?

It is for those who seek expansion through experience without fear by networking with others, this is the pathway to STO. The STS way is for those who seek destruction to inflict fear to cause separation, and then deliver false promises to 'salvation' by leading people to 'the light' or any other source of personal liberation/freedom/concept/ideology. The narrative for this earth plane is quite simple. We are here because some people had made conscious decision which way they need to go and learn. Others make sure to divert them off course. Of course, both STS and STO are needed, it is the two sides of the same coin. But the coin needs a hand for someone to flip it....3D experience is the ability to see the different sides of one object. The 4D is the ability to see the union with all. But the 'gut feeling' is the same in all realms. The urge to do something. So we suffer when don't see the fruits of our efforts. Just like I said, and I think it is a matter of faith to believe that the akashic records exist at all. Just imagine, even one bit of information gets erased to non existence, everything and all will cease to exist. What do you think the passion of people like Jesus Christ was like? But see what happened next, he didn't write the bible but he knew what he needed to be done. Planting a seed, but we grew weeds instead of flowers. Some see the beauty in the weed, some are willing to destroy it just because it just makes them happy. I see the weed, and it is beautiful, ok, it is what is, an object something that is there. But the weed learns who its enemies are. And it grew thorns. And it became a rose.

People make me happy when they are happy inside just because. It is 'felt'...
 
Going back to the concept of bearing your suffering and aiming to decrease it around you as an orientation of STO, I came across this excerpt posted by Joe in the Viktor Frankl thread, which I think is so pertinent:


Joe said:
Reading this book now and thought I'd share an excerpt that I found very insightful:

Man's Search for Meaning said:
As we said before, any attempt to restore a person's inner strength in the camp had first to succeed in showing them some future goal. Nietzsche's words, "He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how", could be the guiding motto for all psychotherapeutic and pyschohygenic efforts regarding prisoners. Whenever there was an opportunity for it, one had to give them a why - an aim - for their lives, in order to strengthen them to bear the terrible how of their existence. Woe to him who saw no more sense in his life, no aim, no purpose, and therefore no point in carrying on. He was soon lost. The typical reply with which such a person rejected all encouraging arguments was, "I have nothing to expect from life any more." What sort of answer can one give to that?

What was really needed was a fundamental change in our attitude toward life. We had to learn ourselves and, furthermore, we had to teach the despairing person, that it did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life - daily and hourly. Our answer must consist, not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual.

These tasks, and therefore the meaning of life, differ from person to person, and from moment to moment. Thus it is impossible to define the meaning of life in a general way. Questions about the meaning of life can never be answered by sweeping statements. "Life" does not mean something vague, but something very real and concrete. They form a person's destiny, which is different and unique for each individual. No person and no destiny can be compared with any other person or any other destiny. No situation repeats itself, and each situation calls for a different response. Sometimes the situation in which a person finds themselves may require them to shape their own fate by action. At other times it is more advantageous for a person to make use of an opportunity for contemplation and to realize assets in this way.

When a person finds that it is their destiny to suffer, they will have to accept their suffering as their task; their single and unique task. They will have to acknowledge the fact that even in suffering they are unique and alone in the universe. No one can relieve them of their suffering or suffer in their place. Their unique opportunity lies in the way in which they bear their suffering.
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And to this effect, this is exactly what Peterson is saying- Pick up your suffering and bear it:


 
Thank You, Arwenn! This is so powerful and amazing, soul smashing event of honesty that just needed to be heard. YES! But few can understand, so much we take for granted, so much we want by the order of what the free will asks us to do = TWO WAYS. How May I Be in Service to You vs I WANT TO SERVE YOU BECAUSE I AM AN STO BEING AND I KNOW EVERYTHING, NOW GIVE ME BACK SOMETHING! Al right, like what, money?

I take this as a personal message to me. Internet is for sharing experiences. Real life happens. I am a silly construction worker. I serve STS beings but I take it. I learned from my life experiences and this forum helped me a lot to learn more and integrate. Among many other sources. And there are some who will 'get' the true passion of Christ the wrong way. The thing called Faith, I am willing to cultivate more of it.
 
Well, now I'm finding my way out of la-la land, after slipping once again into useless habits. What I did do correctly is ceasing the useless habits, but I've failed to follow up by replacing these habits with productive ones, hence I've slipped and reached a peak of anger yesterday. That being said, I tend to see the STS/STO concept as a trap to juvenile dictionary users. It used to, and to some extent goes like this to me: so I'm STS, and no matter what I do, throughout all the peak experiences I have, I'm still STS, physically rooted in this realm. After that commences despair, self-pity, and other useless emotions that in retrospect tells me I'm doing something wrong. And that is in not reflecting, through my actions, what I've learned. At this point, I would like to step back a bit and reflect on my state. My state isn't so bad, I'm alive against all odds, of attack from all the vantage points I can conceive and the darkness-seeking aspects of myself and/or external forces. I like to think of becoming STO as an ongoing process, it is so very difficult because you are effectively in a struggle with yourself, but it gives tangible rewards (still STS haha! doesn't matter though; so long as I need to prey on 2nd density beings to sustain myself, I'm still 3d STS, that's how reality rolls). But further down the line, I suppose, it results in an internal reconfigurement, such that there develops a variance between your FRV and the general FRV of this realm, eventually no longer fitting in it. And that that point, I think you become a candidate of leaving this realm. I think Skyalmian describes what it's like on that path well.

So yeah, at this point what I really need is to get on with actively learning, thus actualizing my essence, rather than engage in "socially acceptable" addictions, thus quarantining my essence in the realm of possibility and hence going nowhere.

Yeah, and the best I've done here besides sharing my Light is rehash past material I've absorbed from other forum members' posts. Go figure.

So yes, I want (motivation haha!) to become STO for selfish reasons (isn't "want" selfish anyway?), but how else do we get out of this mess in the first place? I think it all must start somewhere, and if it starts that way, then so be it.
 
tired-dog-the-struggle-is-real.jpg


Sorry but that's how i feel very often :)

i got so many things to do but still must find time to relax and figure out how the universe works.

And relaxing is giving in to habits and you know the rest.... So I'm not sure if you are supposed to eradicate relaxing but i just can't help it...
 
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