zodiac and the insertion of Libra

[Michael B-C]

As a final aside for the day, I think it is symbolically suggestive that in January of the year before fire destroyed Notre Dame, this is what happen to the Sacra Di San Michele.



Thankfully they suppressed it in time and the building has since been restored. The blaze was put down to faulty wiring (that old chestnut) and indeed that may be true. But one can't help thinking of the flames that have taken so many sacred buildings on the continent since... and also of the wrath of angels of fire; the Pir-Chirianos, the Fire of the Lord that first summoned the building up out of the mountain over 1,000 years ago...

 

[OutSky]

...........
So when Nicholas tells us -

Distinguish the Flowers from the Beasts;
..........
The number 13 made up a Templar chapter, as well as the number of the Grand Master and Alchemist. It was also the number necessary to found a new Cistercian monastery. As Jesus led from the centre his 12 disciples, it also appears in the Grail saga and the round table of King Arthur, with the empty 13th place reserved for the predestined knight, the leader of the twelve. However the vacancy hints at danger for those who seek to occupy it unworthily – for 13 contains within itself the principle of the inevitability of dramatic change, with the implicit warning not to cling to what no longer supports soul development and teh evolutionary will of the universe. It is the number that with the addition of 1 unit to the 12, interrupts the cyclicality, forcing a radical transformation, often by means of fire struck from heaven.

I have outlined these number issues not so as to claim they are in themselves highly momentous proofs of anything, only to suggest that they were most likely meaningful to the sculptor and the occult school he was no doubt representing.

More of increasing interest anon when I will share further on these fascinating 13 pillars and in particular the 2 pillars that address the 11 sign zodiac and other associated constellations!

Hmm. Glad to see of such interesting scenery.

As to the Latin translation, it ratifies total sense to me, but I’d like to see also the original words in Latin, just to check if there is some other relevant details since is usual to find meanings within meanings in ancient inscriptions. Moreover, I cannot afford much time but I will place next some few lines apportioned to those not familiarized at least to the partial above quotation.

So, regarding the “Siege Perilous,” that is to say the vacant 13th seat of the Round Table, which those who want to know more will find the tale best narrated in 15th-century Middle English, in turn rooted in the Arthurian accounts of the 12th-century French Robert de Borron. Thus, usually these books bring the story in archaic English, which I appreciate to read for some reason, but I suppose that there are modern translations. The empty seat also is called "A Great Spas." In Irish, "spas" means "space."

I still did not come over an “original” version stating 13 seats per se, but since the table was copied from that used in the “Last Supper,” such number is a reasonable interpretation. Anyway, as the story goes, the “impure” knight named Moys ignores the warnings and seats on a chair reserved to the “perfect knight.” Then the ill-fated knight, like in an enchantment, is moved to a place where a fire eternally burns him. This tale was a paramount piece of a research that I made on the number 13 of which I left a few comments into another post.

Also, I’d like to notice that, considering the bulky references in literature, there is much insight still to be done on the “beasts”. And, as for the “flowers”, I believe, they are instead better portrayed next.

Matthew 6, 28-30

And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:

And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.

Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?

 

[Border Dog]

As to the Latin translation, it ratifies total sense to me, but I’d like to see also the original words in Latin, just to check if there is some other relevant details since is usual to find meanings within meanings in ancient inscriptions.

Please, let me add some more clues about 12 and 13 controversy. I agree with check meaning of ancient lettering, so I think we cannot avoid the hebrew alphabet that is evidently coded by numbers and meanings by kabbalah and followed by general esoterism, each one as their way.

I just found a link ( here ) which explain more details about these clues, and notably that "Both" uses the three main letters (Aleph, Mem, Shin) as mothers letters related to numbers One, Thirteen and Twenty One, where "Mem" can matches 12 or 13 correspondence, according to each model used to get possible interpretations.

the popular ancient Egypt model use "the Magician" as number one (Aleph), while other models say that number one is "the Fool".

Regard that we are talking about inner esoteric symbolism which impregnates "West Unconscious Mind" about this letters-numbers-meanings, so the alternative model which use number one as "the Fool" say the other popular one was purposely distorted to make a kind of mess of ingenous interpretations, of course, leading a misinterpretations from who not know well all the esoteric "hidden" secrets, and possibly, maybe easily, be viewed as a charlatanism.

So, the result of 12 and 13 symbolism can assume two meanings:

the 12 and 13 numbers-letters meaning (by arcanes), show us two (life-way) stages where both represents a Great Sacrifice, while one alternative is typically reversible concious-voluntary (the hanged man) and the popular other is irreversible unconscious-mandatory (the death), although both models are related to the same hebrew mother letter as "Mem" (number 13).

I think it's a interesting "controversy" about these numbers-letters meanings, also that in this case-subject, worth to include review the roots of hebrew alphabet, which also may explain certain esoteric meanings than others ancient languages, like Latin or Greek.

 

[Michael B-C]

As to the Latin translation, it ratifies total sense to me, but I’d like to see also the original words in Latin, just to check if there is some other relevant details since is usual to find meanings within meanings in ancient inscriptions.

The devil is always found in the detail!

Your post and the above specific question OutSky made me go back once more and review the sources (i.e. the visual record I've constructed of the actual lines in stone) - and in so doing I realized I'd missed out one pivotal line in my previous post!

I was intending to come back to the inscriptions in a while when addressing the context and images on the individual pillars they adorn, but as you have asked I will share what I have now - and do please add whatever comment you have if, as your post suggests, Latin is something you are comfortable and familiar with.

The inscriptions are subtle both in their meaning and in their layout / distribution and are perhaps more enigmatic in detail than I have even thus far suggested - plus 2 of them have been damaged (deliberately or by fortune of nature, we can no longer know) and as you will see below, these lines of text are still open to question as a result (and hence demands some logical Latin choices in final definition) and so, yes, this does indeed potentially impact the full meaning - which I should have stated before.

The challnege is that there are a very few sources online that deal with this subject, and those that do are are mostly either superficial or borrow assumptions from others, or totally miss out all other context. So I've been trying instead to build up a three dimensional picture of what's actually there (having never visited the site myself) by piecing together a whole host of partial photographs etc so as to get as close as I can to actually standing in front of the columns myself... what a thought! No easy feet because I've been dependent on tourist photos, random bits posted here and there... and even then I've had to become a bit like Sherlock Holmes so as to decipher the forensic evidence, especially as the authorities in their wisdom have surrounded much of the structure with thick glass and metal protection which means many available photographs are blurred and vital detail obscured as a result.

Here's an example of what one has to battle against - but it does gives some idea of the total design:



Anyway, I've stuck at it patiently and I think I've now assembled as good as one can in the circumstances. .

It's actually quite depressing to think that given the uniqueness of this site no one has seen fit to put in the effort to create a single set of complete, high resolution, close up images for researchers to work from. I assume, for whatever reason, it has been essentially over looked in terms of its value and place in western visual culture... and there lies a tale indeed...

I will be posting anon with close up images in their rightful context, column by column, but for now on your specific question and my correction, I hope the following helps clarify your inquiry.

Let's start with a ground plan of the columns in relation to the stairs coming up and into the open air beyond. You'll have to excuse, but I've drawn this plan by hand.



As an aside, by drawing this it brought to my attention that columns 1-2 are fully abreast the staircase, but from column 3 on they are all on the flat, with Column 4 standing as the actual threshold (as well as being the only on thrust forward), whilst columns 5-7 (or in the case of the left side, 5-6) increasingly removed from the door and extending out to meet the open sky.

This may or may not be a significant element of the overall design issue (e.g. densities 1-7, with 1-2 firmly embedded in matter, 3 tentatively released and 4 of particular note...?). I may of course be projecting. Let's see anon if this crops up again.

Also note that of all the 13 columns, only column 4 on either side - left (RED) and right (purple), carry any text. They are also, as I say, the only columns that extend out across the threshold.

I have marked the 3 faces available for script on each column as A-B-C. Note again that both faces C on either side are blank of images and text.

Faces A - B are, however, packed with imagery and (as we will see in a post coming up soon) they are laid out in such a way that images run down the centre of a given face, leaving enough room either side of the panel for text to also run up from the bottom to top (i.e. designed to be read from the earth to the sky). Sometimes the text starts half way up but that is the basic model.

So each face of A & B has space for potentially 2 sets of text line = 8 in total between both columns.

However only 7 of these are utilized...


RIGHT (PURPLE) holds:

A - IMAGES: Zodiac Constellation ('signs') = 1 line of text (A1 on left, A2 on right is blank)
B - IMAGES; Flora, Fauna & Human Figures = 2 lines of text (B1 on left, B2 on right)

LEFT (RED):

A - IMAGES: Constellation (Northern & Southern hemisphere's) = 2 lines of text (A1 on left, A2 on right)
B - IMAGES: Flora & Fauna = 2 lines of text (B1 on left, B2 on right)

Here are the lines of text once more in English (including the previously missing line) and how they relate to each column face: both lines
B 1 and B 2 are damaged with missing or near illegible endings. There is thus some conflict in sources as to the actual original text and meaning.




And here are the visual sources, layout of the Latin and again possible translations





I have included the position of the dots (there are 4 of them) because I have learned from other projects around this kind of esoteric language that their use and placement often has great significance, irrespective of the surface translation of the line, often connected to letter counts and numerology. I'll leave that issue for now.

So over to any Latin sages to make any further comment on the translations etc!

 

[Michael B-C]

I have since found that I do in fact have an image that tends to confirms the Latin on Left, A1 (despite the beginning of the sentence not being in frame and the end being partially obscured by the lintel, its still clear enough - with a minor correction from 'saepius' to 'sepius'):



The original seems also to increase the number of dots to 5.

 

[Border Dog]

Here's an example of what one has to battle against - but it does gives some idea of the total design:

Yes, I agree that "words writen" don't need necessarily make sense with what is writen, but the number-frequency obtained throught the phrase, whether it’s just thinking or even talking, it’s the goal of significance. No wonder they call it by occultism.

An Expert once tells me there are 4 ways to use the "occult technique", as follows, (1) Simple Truth, (2) a Hint, (3) Allegory, and (4) a Secret.

----

The "Secret" technique don't reveal nothing, only showing that was an occult-info behind it (which for a certain degree of iniciation, it's not a Secret anymore).

The "Allegory" technique uses fantasy (or imagination) to touch what really means, but in a way which explores beliefs and legends, preferably the local ones, but this really don't matters much, because it's essentially fiction.

The "Hint" technique also don't reveal the Simple Truth, but "reveal something" which worth to know "what does It mean" to find the goal.

The "Simple Truth" technique is the goal to learn and practice, indeed.

----

According the expert, all these techniques can be used together or not, so inside a great Allegory, we can found a Simple Truth or some Hints, maybe both.

BTW, most of "public texts" can be viewed as "placebo", but the number-frequency of the texts is usually redundant with the goal, so for an iniciate it may be significant to achieve "the occult message".

speaking of redundancy, I end up repeating that "words writen" don't need necessarily make sense with what is writen.

and, on this context, I guess worth to add associated "Geometric Designs", so for example, the same word found inside a circle may be different significance if found in a cube surface.

a Simple Truh - Everything is Relative.

 

[OutSky]

The devil is always found in the detail!

Your post and the above specific question OutSky made me go back once more and review the sources (i.e. the visual record I've constructed of the actual lines in stone) - and in so doing I realized I'd missed out one pivotal line in my previous post!

I was intending to come back to the inscriptions in a while when addressing the context and images on the individual pillars they adorn, but as you have asked I will share what I have now - and do please add whatever comment you have if, as your post suggests, Latin is something you are comfortable and familiar with.
.........

No, not so much meant like that, sorry to tell. Actually, I'm a pretty lame Latin translator. However I do have translated, eventually, some parts of books in Latin. This is more like a fun activity to me doing such, but for sure I can't say in the least that I am proficient. On the other hand, a couple of years ago indeed I started to translate a book in Latin with the intention of publishing it, but I postponed the project because in the first third of the translation I was already too astonished by the stuff I was unveiling.

So, I wonder, does not matter how inept someone may be at the start in some "ancient" language, because always is worthwhile effort doing the translation yourself. Also, I should add, translations made over the internet will not even roughly translate old texts — they are misleading. It may be hard work, but doing on your own, it pays in triple.

Really cool images, your effort was appreciated. Now they are on my lengthy list to further analysis. For now, as a last note on that,

my short poem

Yes, as it is told, the devil is in the details,
and they are marvelous,
yet I see them best when far sighted.

 

[OutSky]

.........

I just found a link ( here ) which explain more details about these clues, and notably that "Both" uses the three main letters (Aleph, Mem, Shin) as mothers letters related to numbers One, Thirteen and Twenty One, where "Mem" can matches 12 or 13 correspondence, according to each model used to get possible interpretations.

.........

Now, regarding the Hebrew language. That, I clearly remember, was one of my starting points when I began to focus my intention on the research of mysteries. Indeed my first "great insight" was drawn from an etymologic study of Hebrew words. That said however, I never got time for in a regular way to study Hebrew, and still today I know very, very little of Hebrew, almost nothing. “Time” was or is the issue.

October 7, 1994 session

Q: (L) True meaning of the word “Shem”?
A: Purity.
Q: (L) What language is the root of this word found in?
A: Atlantean. Hebrew.

So, I appreciated the respective given post and above link —I read it, and is interesting. However, "Tarot" is another thing that I abandoned long ago —before even I knew the C’s. Indeed, I had, maybe still have somewhere, 3 nice Taro decks, but honestly speaking, I think it like some waste of time to my case. Oh, it works I think, even for me. That's is not the issue. Maybe, indeed, it be perfect for the Work of some peoples. If anyone is interested on that, the 4th book of Ra is pretty much into this, though that 4th book little attracted my attention. See?! I suspect that part of the Ra material was strong influenced by negative entities.

Now, perhaps, I'm not alone on that view. If we read the input of the C's on the Tarot, is noticeable that also they seem not to give much importance to this method.

November 26, 1994 session
(T) Are my Tarot cards telling me the truth?
A: Maybe. Enough on this subject, please.
…….

January 7, 1995 session
Q: (V) Last night I all of a sudden got a flash to do a Tarot reading. Now, I hadn’t done this in months because I know it is not a super clear channel, but, I had the overwhelming feeling that it was okay to do this. Was the reading I did for myself last night a valid and factual true reading?
A: If you wish it to be.
Q: (V) Well, I was hoping with the reading that I was drawing on your energy, was I?
A: You do not cards to “draw on our energy.” Your strong feeling was to meditate for information. You misinterpreted it as a need for Tarot. Cards can confuse, meditation never does.

 

[gnosisxsophia]

So over to any Latin sages to make any further comment on the translations etc!

Hi Michael,

Thank you for the interesting thread.

Certainly no Latin sage however did find this translation regarding the 'Flores cum beluis' phrase;

Il Portale dello Zodiaco

translate.google.com

"Hoc opus intendat quisquis bonus expendat / Flores cum beluis comixtos cernitis " (Observe this work whoever, capable, measures its value; you see flowers mixed with animals)

Discovered also that the phrase is replicated at Modena;

The side portals are also noteworthy. On the Piazza Grande, the porta regia di piazza (piazza portal), also by the campionesi, and the porta dei principi (princes' portal), decorated with a relief depicting episodes of the life of Saint Geminianus, by a pupil of Wiligelmus. On the northern side is the porta della pescheria (fish market portal), with reliefs inspired by the cycle of the twelve months on the doorposts, and tales from the Breton Cycle of King Arthur on the archivolt.

'Flowers' than seeming rather applicable relative to 'Michael'

On the Isle of Skye, Scotland, a procession was held. Many of the activities that had been done at Lughnasadh – sports, games and horse races – migrated to this day. One of the few flowers left around at this time of year is the Michaelmas daisy (also known as asters). Hence the rhyme: "The Michaelmas daisies, among dead weeds, Bloom for St Michael's valorous deeds ..."

I will share further on these fascinating 13 pillars and in particular the 2 pillars that address the 11 sign zodiac and other associated constellations!

And must say at first pass was thinking with Scorpio/Libra, '13' and 'Archangel Michael' in the mix, that something to do with Ophiuchus may not be far away - probably due to a post by Vulcan59 coming to mind;

13th sign of the zodiac

I found it odd that the story was carried so widely on mainstream networks. The symbology of adding a myth with a serpent to our zodiac is, to me, very curious. There's another word with the same root as Ophiuchus, Ophiolatreia, which means serpent worship. If the PTB wanted this story...

cassiopaea.org

Until, that was, realising the 'Serpent Bearer' didn't appear to get a guernsey on 'St Michaels' portal!

Aquila, Delfinus, Pegasus, Deltoton, Orion, Lepus, Canis, Anticanis, Pistrix, Eridanus, Centaurus, Cetus, Nothius, Ara and Hidra.

Which was then almost as alluring as the Southern constellations that were included, in addition to both 'Pistrix' -

1. any sea-monster
2. a whale, shark, sawfish
3. The constellation of the Whale
4. A species of swift-sailing ship
5. Name of a ship in the fleet of Aeneas

And Cetus being named...

As since coming across this illustrating article-

The God with the Upraised Arm: An Astronomical Archetype? - The Daily Grail

(This essay was originally posted to The Daily Grail in 1999. I’m reposting it for those that may have missed it first time around.) In the depictions of mythological scenes on Near Eastern archaeological monuments and artefacts, a number of ‘archetypal images’ are apparent. One of the most...

www.dailygrail.com

I had been wondering about 'Michael'?



The 'Greatest of Angels' who coincidentally is said to 'rule the South'?


A suspicion that however meant that Lepus should also be depicted as something other than a bunny rabbit - so went looking for evidence of a something a little more 'adversarial' under 'his' foot.

And wouldn't you know it...

Hewitt says that in earliest Egyptian astronomy Lepus was the Boat of Osiris, the great god of that country, identified with Orion.

The Denderah planisphere has in its place a Serpent apparently attacked by some bird of prey

In the Persian planisphere the first constellation was pictured by a serpent

The brightest, α (in the body), has a Hebrew name, Arnebo, which means the enemy of Him that cometh. The Arabic, Arnebeth, means the same. Other stars are Nibal, the mad; Rakis, the bound (Arabic, with a chain); Sugia, the deceiver.

Lepus Constellation Meaning

Constellation Lepus Astrology Constellation Lepus the Hare, is a southern constellation sitting below constellation Orion, between constellation Eridanus and constellation Canis Major. Lepus spans 18 degrees of the Zodiac in the Sign of Gemini, and contains 2 named fixed stars. Constellation...

astrologyking.com

Later learning of the asterisms identification in the Mazzaroth then made 'Michaels' positioning within Judaism rather compelling, so I picked up a planisphere - remembering that the northern Michaelmas was associated with Autumn as is ours;

March 21 is the midpoint between the Southern Hemisphere’s summer and winter solstices, it is also known as the autumn equinox and for us, it is when the festival of Michaelmas is celebrated. Michaelmas is the feast of Saint Michael the Archangel. The Archangel Michael is one of the principal angelic warriors, seen as a protector against the dark of night, and the administrator of cosmic intelligence.

Perhaps unsurprisingly (better late than never) noting that on the 'Libra' equinox (around midnight) the constellation Orion coincidentally happens to rise from the East before exiting the stage, 6 months later, on the Vernal Equinox...

And while there's more that's probably enough for the moment.

Cheers

J

 

[gnosisxsophia]

So, staying with ‘Angels’ and ‘snakes’ for a moment, the etymology of ‘Seraphim’ is probably worth revisiting - the burning ones;

The word saraph/seraphim appears four times in the Book of Isaiah (6:2–6, 14:29, 30:6). In Isaiah 6:2–6 the term is used to describe a type of celestial being or angel. The other uses of the word refer to serpents.

…winged celestial beings with a fiery passion

In non-biblical sources they are sometimes called the Akyəst (Ge'ez: አክይስት "serpents", "dragons";

And so on, which provides a segue to this session;

Q: (A) Who were the Elohim?

A: Elohim refers to past, as a connection to future as envisioned in your dream. It is the connector that counts, see?? Ruling council of Od; Odiem.

Q: (L) What about the Seraphim?

A: Council in clouds... We are speaking of advanced insight here.

Q: (L) Why were there 300 Elohim and 301 Seraphim?

A: Who is the odd one out?

Q: (A) Who is the odd one out?

A: Check your roots. Od, odiem, odd, could we spell it out any clearer for you? Not without abridging free will!

Q: (L) Who is Sara?

A: Roots.

Q: (L) Who is the 'King of the Angels?'

A: No more spoonfeeding. Gerbers is out of stock!

Q: (L) Okay, go on...

A: Arkadiusz is supposed to be asking about this. It was his dream.

Q: (L) Alright. I'll hush. (A) I cannot ask now anything about that as I know nothing about this 'od.'...

As mentioned elsewhere, quite an interesting dialogue to an outsider.

'Ruling Council of Od' for starters;

In Norse mythology, Óðr (Old Norse for the "Divine Madness, frantic, furious, vehement, eager", as a noun "mind, feeling" and also "song, poetry"; Orchard (1997) gives "the frenzied one") or Óð, sometimes anglicized as Odr or Od, is a figure associated with the major goddess Freyja.

Added to ‘council in the clouds’;

In ancient times the winter constellation which we today know as Orion was at that time called "Freya's Gown" by the Norse and Teutons, and the sword belt in Orion was called "Freya's Girdle."

Freya (or Frigga), wife of Odin the All Father, sat with her golden distaff spinning the clouds. Orion's Belt was known as "Frigga's spindle"…

Looking into the 'roots of odiem' leading to interesting word play too, as both noun (plural form of ods) and verb, first person form of 'odiar' - from the Latin odi;

...present infinitive ōdisse, future participle ōsūrus...

Visually and phonetically pretty close to Odyssey and Osiris actually, coincidentally an anagram of 'odi' also being dio…

Whereby the 'King of Angels', intertwined with 'Gerbers', may also take on an intriguing echo within a discussion of a celestial 'Michael'?

Gerbe - a firework throwing a shower of sparks - or interestingly (seeing as it was Ark's dream);

In mathematics, a gerbe is a construct in homological algebra and geometry providing a certain type of generalisation for a sheaf.

'Gerbe' possibly then also cognate with jabbar?

Or intriguingly;

"Gerbe" is a French word that literally means wheat sheaf.

Which is quite the 'Angelic' motif!

The first fruits of the wheat harvest are preceded by the wave-sheaf offering of the earlier-ripening barley harvest. The wave sheaf is symbolic of Jesus Christ.

"The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age" (Matthew 13:38-40).

As well as the penultimate symbol of harvest / rebirth /metamorphosis, a la the Isis-Osirian mythos as one example.

Alternatively Geber - Mighty man…

And Gerber;

...derived from the Old German word "ledargarawo," meaning "leather preparer" which later became "gerwer" and "gerber." Accordingly, the original bearer of this name held the trade of a leather tanner.

Where an integral component of traditional tanning happens to be coincidentally - 'Urine';

Orion was born when three gods--Zeus, Poseidon and Hermes--urinated on a bull-hide…

Orion's name is derived from the ancient Greek word oros "mountain" or from ourios "urine"

Which, funnily enough, may also point to other ‘giants’?

The Apostle Bartholomew, incidentally, the Patron Saint of Leather Workers.

And his name reportedly interpretable as son of Talmai, with one biblical Talmai by happenstance, a ‘giant’ – son of Anak.

Anak - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

This historic ‘Anak’ also seemingly named in the Ra Material as it so happens;

The Law of One Search Results for ‘anak’

Making the Apostles positioning within Da Vinci's 'The Last Supper', possibly also of astrological interest?

Assuming ‘the Son’ is the Sun, Bartholomew conceivably then positioned in the East (from a Northern perspective). Where keeping everything ‘above’ board, would be position 12 or ‘Pisces’ – conveniently the end of Winter.

The symbol of the ‘fish’ also uncannily similar to the 7 main of stars of the Orion constellation imo…

Where a knife (his personal attribute) is pictured aimed directly at him and grasped by a curiously 'disembodied hand', conceivably belonging to 'Peter'. A figure that has also imposed itself into the position of the Scorpion - while also making a 'cutting' gesture to the neck of 'Libra' - the Beloved?

Q: (L) You said the other night that the Nephalim came from some area around the constellation Scorpio, is that correct?

A: Originally seeded there...

Something very interesting going on here but before getting too romantic - in what appears quite the irony;

Ptolemy is a name derived from Ancient Greek. Common variants include Ptolemaeus (Latin), Tolomeo (Italian) and Talmai (Hebrew).

Ironic as it relates to the ‘Dragon slayer’ anyway, because it seems Lepus as Hare (and not serpent) was first catalogued in the 2nd Century by the Greek astronomer of the same name - which strikes as a bit suss to me?

Particularly as after considering, what appears, the strategic placing of ‘Michaels’ right foot in many artistic interpretations - another of Luca Giordano’s (the artist pictured previously) for example;



Prompting one to wonder about the prevalence of Hindu interpretation relative to the forms of Shiva also equated as Orion - in particular the relevance of ‘Lepus’;

According to Hindu mythology, Apasmāra is a dwarf who represents spiritual ignorance and nonsensical speech. He is also known as Muyalaka or Muyalakan. To preserve knowledge in the world, Apasmāra must be subdued, not killed, as to do so would disturb the necessary balance between spiritual knowledge and ignorance. Killing Apasmāra would symbolise the attainment of knowledge without the (essential) effort, dedication and hard work involved, and this would lead to the devaluing of knowledge in all its forms. To subdue Apasmāra, Lord Shiva adopted the form of Śrī Naṭarāja - the Lord of Dance and performed the cosmic dance of Tāṇḍava. During this dance, Śrī Naṭarāja suppressed Apasmāra by crushing him with his right foot.

Images of Shiva, as Nataraja, already shared in a number of places of the forum so won’t add another;

Bhaty interprets the demon Apasmāra, in his astronomical form as the constellation Lepus (Indian Muyala - likewise a rabbit or hare), as representing forgetfulness, specifically forgetfulness concerning the star Canopus (equated in India with the sage Agastya), with Apasmāra / Muyala representing / standing in for Agastya when the latter is not visible in India at certain latitudes; and possibly also forgetfulness of a deluge coinciding with a supernova event commemorated in certain South Indian festivals (celebrated at the New Year / March equinox) in honour of lord Śiva.

Cue eye roll at Canopus...;

Canopus, pilot of Menelaus' ship on his quest to retrieve Helen of Troy…

And while I could go on (and on) that’s probably enough…as here I was waiting for Hamlet, Horus, The Aeneid, Osiris and his ‘Scales’, Marc Antony, Aeneas, Cleopatra and Isis in the Shake-speare thread!

Oh well, dreams, myth and the 'C's seem to be onto it anyway

Pay attention to Orion! This is your ancestral home, and your eventual destination.

 

[rrraven]

btw you mixed up your goddesses and gods up a bit here

'Ruling Council of Od' for starters;

In Norse mythology, Óðr (Old Norse for the "Divine Madness, frantic, furious, vehement, eager", as a noun "mind, feeling" and also "song, poetry"; Orchard (1997) gives "the frenzied one") or Óð, sometimes anglicized as Odr or Od, is a figure associated with the major goddess Freyja.

Added to ‘council in the clouds’;

In ancient times the winter constellation which we today know as Orion was at that time called "Freya's Gown" by the Norse and Teutons, and the sword belt in Orion was called "Freya's Girdle."

Freya (or Frigga), wife of Odin the All Father, sat with her golden distaff spinning the clouds. Orion's Belt was known as "Frigga's spindle"…

Freya is Odrs wife not Odins and her twin is Frey,they are Vanir
Frig is indeed Odins wife , they are Aesir

impressive train of thought anyway

PS. you do know Gerber is a spoon feed-able baby food brand, don't you?

 

[Jones]

The sum of the two numbers 7 + 6 = 13, the 6th prime number. The number 13 can be geometrically decomposed into the sum of the six-pointed star, with a second six-pointed star with the point in the center 6 + 1 = 7.

I enjoy reading what you write, Michael B.C, even though I don't delve into such topics as deeply usually. So this might might not mean anything at all to the direction of where you're going with this topic. The mention of 6, 7 and stars reminded me that there is also a 7 pointed star, or heptagram, where the points supposedly represent the 7 gifts of the spirit:

Isa. 11:2 The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of might, the Spirit of the knowledge and fear of the LORD, (3) and he will delight in the fear of the LORD (NIV)

The above gifts could be used in either an STS or STO fashion, however there is also a 9 pointed star that supposedly represents the fruits of spirit:

Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, (23)
gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. (NIV)

Perhaps STS strives for the gifts without developing and becoming a real expression of the fruits unless they are displayed in an attempt to control, manipulate or deceive others.

 

[gnosisxsophia]

btw you mixed up your goddesses and gods up a bit here

Haha, thanks rrraven but was simply quoting others.

Freya (Old Norse Freyja, “Lady”) is one of the preeminent goddesses in Norse mythology. She’s a member of the Vanir tribe of deities, but became an honorary member of the Aesir gods after the Aesir-Vanir War... Her husband, named Odr in late Old Norse literature, is certainly none other than Odin, and, accordingly, Freya is ultimately identical with Odin’s wife Frigg...

Freya - Norse Mythology for Smart People

Freya (Old Norse Freyja, “Lady”) is one of the preeminent goddesses in Norse mythology. She’s a member of the Vanir tribe of deities, but became an honorary member of the Aesir gods after the Aesir-Vanir War. Her father is Njord. Her mother is unknown, but could be Nerthus. Freyr is her brother...

norse-mythology.org

Seems a bit like the old Ishtar / Inanna thing actually?

The goddess is at times presented alongside scorpion imagery, such as on Babylonian cylinder seals. This artistic connection to scorpions can also be seen in literary sources, where Inanna battles a giant scorpion...

The 'Descent of Inanna' also coincidentally correlated by some with the equinox and other celestial activity?

Another recent interpretation, by Clyde Hostetter, holds that the myth is an allegorical report of related movements of the planets Venus, Mercury, and Jupiter; and those of the waxing crescent Moon in the Second Millennium, beginning with the spring equinox and concluding with a meteor shower near the end of one synodic period of Venus.

PS. you do know Gerber is a spoon feed-able baby food brand, don't you?

Yep, but it certainly did take some finding

Michael B-C's quote regarding the 'blind of Metamorphosis' (in the context of Scorpio / Libra and 'angels') also prompts the sharing of a spectacular mosaic I recently stumbled across from Pompeii;




Not so sure about the coiled snake interpretation though...and as Laura mentioned in TSHOTW (r.e. Orion as Artemis), my gut still has me leaning towards 'Orion' as a feminine figure too?



The 'Orans' posture and all that.

Perhaps STS strives for the gifts without developing and becoming a real expression of the fruits

Yes that does seems to be the trick Jones, reminds me of something Shakespearean I read only yesterday;

According to Ted Hughes, after Hercules’ abandonment of his Roman descendant, what remains is an “Osirian Antony” who must “free himself wholly and finally, from the obsolete Herculean Roman Antony, and emerge as his true self, the universal love God, consort of the Goddess of Complete being”

 

[Laura]

Interesting tidbit from an archaeology article:

"Russian archaeologists have unearthed an intricately detailed silver medallion of the Greek goddess Aphrodite in the 2,100-year-old grave of a young woman, possibly a priestess, on the northeastern coast of the Black Sea.


The medallion also shows 10 — not the known 12 — signs of the zodiac, and gives unique insight into religious practices at that time and place."

2,100-year-old burial of Aphrodite 'priestess' discovered in Russia

Archaeologists have unearthed a silver medallion depicting the Greek goddess Aphrodite in a 2,100-year-old grave on the northeastern coast of the Black Sea.

www.livescience.com

 

[bozadi]

I just stumbled upon the below info/view.

From: steamboatpilot.com/news/celestial-news-libra-the-misfit-constellation/

Take another close look at that list of constellations in the “circle of animals.” Notice anything odd? The “circle of animals” includes one constellation that is not an animal, Libra the Scales. How did this inanimate object become a member of the exclusive Zodiac Club?

To the ancient Greeks, there were only 11 constellations in the zodiac, including the double constellation of Scorpius the Scorpion and Chelae the Scorpion’s Claws. The Romans eventually adopted many of the Greek constellations, including the 11 in the zodiac. After the assassination of Julius Caesar in 44 B.C., the Romans wanted to honor Caesar with a constellation in the heavens. They decided to amputate Chelae the Scorpion’s Claws to form this new constellation. At that time, the autumnal equinox occurred when the Sun was seen in this part of the sky, and the hours of daylight and darkness were balanced. The Romans created a new star pattern here and named it Libra the Scales, to honor Julius Caesar.

I'm not sure if the above info was mentioned before in this or another thread but I found it so interesting and inspiring.