Psychic Self-defense, psychic protection

Arwenn said:

Thanks for your post Puck-that's exactly the sort of stuff I am looking for. Being assertive is an area that I consistently need to work on - it's not that I can't be assertive, but as a highly sensitive person, it takes agreat deal of effort. I wish sometimes that people would know the boundaries and just respect them already! I read some of your posts in dealing with problematical housemates, and I must say Puck, I was very impressed by the way you handled it all and drew those boundaries.

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It's a work in progress, but just recently I had to ask my best friend to move out of my apartment. I hadn't realized just how having him in my living space was totally draining my psyche. We've been friends for almost a decade, and I doubt we'll have a friendship in the future. It was like a protracted break-up even though we were just friends.

He moved in last Sept, lost his job 6 weeks after that, and was unemployed until January. He got a job and was able to start paying rent again, but it was consistently late and behind. His job was also in nightlife, which lead to him partying frequently. I cooked him meals, cleaned the house, and kept a roof over his head and was repaid with a dirty bathroom, drunken stumbling in the wee hours of the morning and him treating the other housemates with disdain.

Things got worse gradually and over time, but the pattern couldn't be ignored. I asked him to get regular, settle up, or make other arrangements in about mid-march. We agreed that April would be his last month when his rent came late, that I'd take his furniture since he didn't have a place for it, and still owed me $534. He neglected to make any sort of real arrangements or to get another job, and when May 1st rolled around I had to help him to move in with a guy he used to date. He wasn't able to get his stuff out completely until this past Monday, and I had to fabricate a story about having someone moving in to get him to do that.

Apparently he's been locked out of this guy's place, even though all his stuff is there, and is crashing between my neighbor and another friend of his (who sells drugs).

Boundaries are huge, as is strategic implementation of those boundaries and their management. I also failed to realize just how negatively I was being affected by lack thereof until I got him out of my living space. Your situation is different, but similar enough that I thought my recent drama might help you resolve yours.

Arwenn said:

There isn't a dedicated thread on various forms of psychic protection (it's mentioned sporadically in a few threads). After having a truly horrible few days with my ex-mother (yes, indeed, I 'broke up' with her) and realizing to my utter horror that she has a contractile inner core, I felt her & my siblings sending me ill energy. That's the best way I can articulate it. It felt like poison arrows or shards. Let's just say that sh#! felt nasty!

Now, when her verbally abusive filthy texts arrived, and I felt I was being attacked, I tried mentally blocking and saying what Gandalf says in Lord of the Rings to the Balrog, "You shall not pass!". Lol. Needless to say, it didn't work, and since late Thursday night after our lovely repartee, I came down with a really nasty head and chest cold. I'm sure it's not the keto flu (as I seem to have been managing my ketone levels nicely, with plenty of energy etc. for quite some time now). I actually felt attacked, and my mental state at the time (hurt, despair, soul anguish, disbelief, rejection etc-you get the idea) was not up to protecting anything.

I have scheduled a session with Patrick Rodriguez, as well as a psychologist, because, well, I don't think I'm coping too well with this. I know the Cs have said networking, increasing and applying knowledge, EE and POTS will help. The Cs also stress psychic hygiene too. I'm paraphrasing here, but they have said battles and attack can come from anywhere-through us, family, friends etc.

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Hi Arwenn, maybe the positive side of feeling those head and chest colds is that there is something in your body which now recognizes those immuno-psychic shards your mother sends you as foreign. So your body could just be physically purging their neurosomatic/immune manifestations from your system (as above, so below). Perhaps these symptoms did not emerge because you have not yet established the boundary sufficiently between you and your mother -- so the narcissistic poison was still able to evade the immune system. If that is the case (and I'm not saying it is), simply remembering yourself and not identifying with the roller coaster of anguish and psychic pain until it runs its course may be your best bet. People who undergo heavy SRT sessions sometimes manifest flu-like symptoms, probably by the mechanism mentioned above. I think the pipe breathing and prayer of the soul is an excellent idea as well. You could use the Fellowship symbol for your seed meditation, or even print it and tape it to your bedroom ceiling.

A search on the net seems to pull up a great deal of New Age Sewage. So, I thought I'd start this thread to see what collective knowledge we have on shields, barriers, using (inviting 1D crystals?) to help with psychic protection. Oh, and another thing-I absolutely love our FOTCM logo, and wondered if we could have it made as jewellery, an amulet or talisman. I may be imagining, but it feels good just looking at it. :)

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I think a good thing to remember about visualization is that it's like a parable: it doesn't necessarily have to be true to serve an instructive function. Protection visualizations are meant, I think, to induce certain emotional states and somatic states (feeling more grounded and embodied), so the negative emotions that may be triggered by certain inputs can be received and processed in an environment that you are making safe.

I think the reason there's sooo much information about this online is that everyone has certain images or sounds or sensations that can trigger a sense of inner strength and sovereignty, since it's subjective. But people prattle about this or that visualization, thinking it's objective. Maybe one reason "You Shall Not Pass!" wasn't as effective as you hoped was because it didn't trigger the needed affective response enough. Puck's response really highlights how critical having the deeper unconscious respond to the conscious prompts. Those can be trained, I am certain, with practice.

Here's an exercise I learned to allow me to be able to call certain mental/psychic strength to deal with particular experiences:

Pull out a minor episode or insult that used to bug you a lot, but now you've fully processed and can easily dismiss from your thoughts. If it feels safe to do so, try letting your guard down a liiiittle bit around that thought, holding onto it and see how that feels inside. Once you have a grasp of those older, less integrated feelings of anger, try and get rid of the thought again, but notice the internal changes in your feeling, sense of embodiment, and posture when you're raising the psychic defenses. Visualizing (somaticizing) those feelings again helped me to feel that defensive force inside me, and use it against the negative thought/feeling/experience.

After doing this for awhile I gradually learned to consciously call that receptive, grounded feeling that removed the teeth from particular experiences. Moving on to stronger and stronger negative experiences increased this ability. The key thing is to make sure you only practice with things you've fully processed already, since if you mimic a reaction to a situation you haven't fully integrated, you'll just mimic the coping mechanism and not the healing function. And naturally, start over again if one causes you to forget yourself or dissociate. :P

Since you're dealing with runaway, ungrounded feelings of rejection, it could also be useful to practice the exercise with an experience in which you used to feel really rejected, but not at all about anymore.

I also share the advice about getting outside and maybe going for a nice walk in a park, since nature reduces stress and gets your way from electromagnetic noise. Epsom salt baths are generally good for stress too.

Puck said:

It's a work in progress, but just recently I had to ask my best friend to move out of my apartment. I hadn't realized just how having him in my living space was totally draining my psyche. We've been friends for almost a decade, and I doubt we'll have a friendship in the future. It was like a protracted break-up even though we were just friends.
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Boundaries are huge, as is strategic implementation of those boundaries and their management. I also failed to realize just how negatively I was being affected by lack thereof until I got him out of my living space. Your situation is different, but similar enough that I thought my recent drama might help you resolve yours.

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Hey Puck, good on you for realizing that you needed to cut your best-friend loose. And you are right, it can and does feel like a break-up. Yup, boundaries are huge - the thing is, it's usually OK for us to erect boundaries against other people, but not so easy with family and friends, and so often it seems that they are the very ones that we need to have very clear boundaries with! It's probably a mixture of socio-cultural programming, as well as familial too.

Aside from Spirit Releasement Therapy, what I am hoping for is that in doing the Work, diet and EE, we can raise our FRV to a level where you can mentally block dissonant energies. Maybe then my Gandalf line might work! :P

Hey whitecoast, thanks for chiming in! I thought this was a very interesting perspective:
[quote author=whitecoast]
Hi Arwenn, maybe the positive side of feeling those head and chest colds is that there is something in your body which now recognizes those immuno-psychic shards your mother sends you as foreign. So your body could just be physically purging their neurosomatic/immune manifestations from your system (as above, so below). Perhaps these symptoms did not emerge because you have not yet established the boundary sufficiently between you and your mother -- so the narcissistic poison was still able to evade the immune system. [/quote]

Could very well be!

[quote author=whitecoast]
If that is the case (and I'm not saying it is), simply remembering yourself and not identifying with the roller coaster of anguish and psychic pain until it runs its course may be your best bet.
[/quote]

I did not know how not to identify with the pain, and even though I'm feeling better physically and mentally, I still am not sure that I'm processing all of this to my best abilities- hence the appointments with the practitioners I mentioned earlier.

[quote author=whitecoast]
Since you're dealing with runaway, ungrounded feelings of rejection, it could also be useful to practice the exercise with an experience in which you used to feel really rejected, but not at all about anymore.

I also share the advice about getting outside and maybe going for a nice walk in a park, since nature reduces stress and gets your way from electromagnetic noise. Epsom salt baths are generally good for stress too.[/quote]

Spot on regarding the feelings of rejection (and abandonment too) - who knows if there isn't past life stuff tied in with all of this. Thanks for your visualization tips too. When my nose and head feel less stuffed up, EE and seed visualization it is! I live along the coast, so yeah, love going for walks by the ocean- something about the brine in the air and the salt water is very cleansing IMO!

mkrnhr said:

But where nobody sees "all-knowing helping" and "lecturing mode" but you could be an opportunity for you to learn about your hidden narcissistic wound and how system2 successfully rationalizes it for you.

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You see, to me the truth should stand above group dynamics. Here is how I see it: A group like this can give more clarity through sharing, but since we are all a "work-in-progress", so to speak, our predator minds will try to establish more hidden patterns. Hiding narcissistic wounds behind a persona of "advanced helper" is a very common tactic of the predator, in my opinion. The reason I saw it clearly is because I had to deal with it myself.

I think the term 'narcissistic wound' may be itself somewhat harsh. Everyone has lots and lots of wounds and programs and we all work on healing them. So having a 'narcissistic wound' is nothing out of the ordinary, even for "advanced students".

Trying to defend a friend instead of being completely honest with yourself and with them seems to be a very common 'default' group dynamic. And for a group that searches for truth in every respect, this dynamic should be recognized and not given in.

One hint that there is this unhealthy group dynamic involved in your response, mkrnhr, is that you automatically assume that "everyone" sees it the way you and just one other person does. At that point, only Gaby replied to me, but you already declare that "nobody sees "all-knowing helping" and "lecturing mode" but you". From that point on, the group dynamic takes its course, as others feel confident in taking the 'safe side' of how a moderator and long-time member sees it.

You probably already knew on some level how the group dynamic would play out, so you were confident in your statement that "nobody sees it like you" when you had no data for that at that point.

axj said:

Trying to defend a friend instead of being completely honest with yourself and with them seems to be a very common 'default' group dynamic. And for a group that searches for truth in every respect, this dynamic should be recognized and not given in.

One hint that there is this unhealthy group dynamic involved in your response, mkrnhr, is that you automatically assume that "everyone" sees it the way you and just one other person does. At that point, only Gaby replied to me, but you already declare that "nobody sees "all-knowing helping" and "lecturing mode" but you". From that point on, the group dynamic takes its course, as others feel confident in taking the 'safe side' of how a moderator and long-time member sees it.

You probably already knew on some level how the group dynamic would play out, so you were confident in your statement that "nobody sees it like you" when you had no data for that at that point.

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Speaking as one of the "others", personally, I like your directness but I don't appreciate being lumped into a homogeneous group dynamic. If anything, I often tend to ignore what others have said and respond directly to someone from my own standing. As it happens in this case though, I happened to agree with mkrnhr, yet I explained my thoughts with my own reasons for why I thought that. I am responsible for what I say and how I say it and if you want to question me further on why I think the way I do and say what I say, please feel free to do so. You will find me fully capable to explain myself with no "zero point" gaps in my consciousness.

I don't deny the existence of 'group dynamic' or even 'group mind' in principle, but I see your assumption here very clearly and I see no interest in even giving anyone the benefit of doubt that you might have about your own thinking.

Hi axj,

First of all I want to say that it was not my intention to come across to you as being in a lecturing mode, I apologize if I did.

What prompted me to reply to you is that you said: "You will remain connected on a deep level [with your mother], so the best thing to do is to find some kind - any kind of way to heal your relationship with her to some degree."

This is a very dangerous thing to suggest when you haven't taken the time to read about Arwenn's specific situation. It's also a dangerous thing to suggest when you base it on your opinion and not really on knowledge gained from books on this subject. This is why I quoted the Well example to help you understand that wanting to heal a relationship can be an impossible mission. And often a very hurtful one.

I suggested to you to read the books, because yes even though you have some kind of understanding of family dynamics, it is important to keep reading and learning, because I'm sure that you wouldn't want to advise something to someone that could actually hurt them. You seem to want to help, which I think is really great, but it's also important to be open to learn. You may also want to explore further what Arwenn wrote here:

I also get the feeling that you were triggered by my mentioning that I had 'broken-up' with my mother, and in fact it was this trigger that had you writing what you did. Does it go against your grain? What sort of relationship do you have with your family, that the idea of a break-up seems so reprehensible to you?

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The forum is here for us to learn about ourselves and from others, and we're not able to do so if we're not open to network or to increase our knowledge. It's not here for us to try to win a debate, it's about discussing with each other, so that we can learn from each other. And sometimes that means reading up on books so that a discussion takes place more objectively. I hope this helps you understand a bit better why I replied to you the way I did.

Hey axj, I think there are family issues that many times can be resolved through external consideration and by using the tools to heal relationships (and/or ourselves) that are given in books like The Narcissistic Family, however, context is important. In arwenn's situation, she has described her efforts in trying to heal her relationship with her mother, only to be further harmed. In this instance it does seem healthy for her and her children to break contact. There are so many programs involved in what we're told - to make nice, to give to a parent simply because they are your parent, etc., and arwenn describes her process of going through these things in her other thread. The suggestion that she still should try and heal things despite all this, and the things she's had to learn, which I can imagine are rather painful lessons, is to miss both the context and some basic understanding of these dynamics. What I observed is that Oxajil pointed this out to you, and you took it as a lecture and then took it further out of context of Arwenn's situation. I think you may be nit-picking a bit for what was basically a simple suggestion, and taking the discussion off in your own direction.

Axj, you're deflecting from the feedback you got about yourself by talking about everyone else's problem but your own. I would ask, are you here to do the work on yourself or just to read about interesting topics. If the former, than you need to take feedback on board, as if it is 100% true even if part of you is kicking and screaming. Otherwise, we end up engaging in deflection and "yes, but..." maneuvers, who I is a classic Predator strategy.

Oxajil said:

The forum is here for us to learn about ourselves and from others, and we're not able to do so if we're not open to network or to increase our knowledge. It's not here for us to try to win a debate, it's about discussing with each other, so that we can learn from each other. And sometimes that means reading up on books so that a discussion takes place more objectively. I hope this helps you understand a bit better why I replied to you the way I did.

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Ok, I'd like to chime in, since I just recently had a discussion with axj on the Ukraine thread - it starts here.

Firstable, I'm among the "others" who felt that axj's reply to Oxajil was rather emotional - even if we were to accept that Oxajil's initial reply was "in lecturing mode", which I don't think it was. By the way, I got this feeling before I read the following reactions by others.

I could be wrong, of course, but your reaction here, axj, seems similar to your reaction to my comments in the Ukraine thread (the discussion was about German chancellor Schröders policies and whether Schröder was/is a good politician). I pointed out why I see it differently, backing it up with a lot of data. In your reply, it seemed to me that you hand-picked some points that you could attack, and even changed topics to make a point - instead of really considering what I wrote. You even attacked me by accusing me that I have a problem with people who make money, which had no basis in what I've written, osit. I had the impression that you were not prepared to move one iota away from your initial assessment - which is quite astonishing, since the topic at hand was really not that emotionally charged or even relevant to what's being discussed on this forum. At the end of the discussion, I kind of thought "okay, fair enough, let's move on", but if I think about it, even in your last reply to me in that thread, it seems to me you kind of changed topics again in order not to have to admit the slightest error. I was a little surprised, since I know most forum members will deeply reflect on what others write. I expected at least something like "well, I didn't know that, I will look into it", or that you provide some more data... Again, this was just my impression.

So when you write

axj said:

One hint that there is this unhealthy group dynamic involved in your response, mkrnhr, is that you automatically assume that "everyone" sees it the way you and just one other person does. At that point, only Gaby replied to me, but you already declare that "nobody sees "all-knowing helping" and "lecturing mode" but you". From that point on, the group dynamic takes its course, as others feel confident in taking the 'safe side' of how a moderator and long-time member sees it.

You probably already knew on some level how the group dynamic would play out, so you were confident in your statement that "nobody sees it like you" when you had no data for that at that point.

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I think you use the same tactic again - finding that one thing that you think you can attack, in that case, that mkrnhr supposedly assumes that "everyone" sees it the way he sees it, which is not even true since he said "nobody sees ... but you". But even if you were right, my impression is that you wanted to find a week spot that you can attack instead of admitting that you were wrong in this or that or even reflecting on what has been pointed out. And then you changed the topic to a discussion of the "group mind" instead of sincerely considering all the feedback. Indeed, it seems that it's all about "winning the debate". So my impression is that there are similarities between this discussion and our discussion about Schröder.

I didn't mean to offend you, axj, in fact, I had to go against my "be nice program" in order to write this, but maybe it is important and something worth thinking about?

axj said:

You see, to me the truth should stand above group dynamics. Here is how I see it: A group like this can give more clarity through sharing, but since we are all a "work-in-progress", so to speak, our predator minds will try to establish more hidden patterns. Hiding narcissistic wounds behind a persona of "advanced helper" is a very common tactic of the predator, in my opinion. The reason I saw it clearly is because I had to deal with it myself.

I think the term 'narcissistic wound' may be itself somewhat harsh. Everyone has lots and lots of wounds and programs and we all work on healing them. So having a 'narcissistic wound' is nothing out of the ordinary, even for "advanced students".

Trying to defend a friend instead of being completely honest with yourself and with them seems to be a very common 'default' group dynamic. And for a group that searches for truth in every respect, this dynamic should be recognized and not given in.

One hint that there is this unhealthy group dynamic involved in your response, mkrnhr, is that you automatically assume that "everyone" sees it the way you and just one other person does. At that point, only Gaby replied to me, but you already declare that "nobody sees "all-knowing helping" and "lecturing mode" but you". From that point on, the group dynamic takes its course, as others feel confident in taking the 'safe side' of how a moderator and long-time member sees it.

You probably already knew on some level how the group dynamic would play out, so you were confident in your statement that "nobody sees it like you" when you had no data for that at that point.

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Hi axj, sorry for not answering earlier.

You missed the "interresting choice of words" in my post to you, which was a gentle (and maybe a little too subtle) invitation for self-observation. I concluded the post with the same invitation. Context is everything as usual.

"narcissistic wound" was not meant to be harsh because as you say, we all have them (me, you, forum members and every souled being on this planet). The question is, do we recognize, diagnose and try to heal them, or do we project them onto the others, the later being simple deflection as already mentioned. Were you miss the point I think, and I could be wrong, is that in this forum we help each other as fellow students, and as fellow wounded souls so to speak, not as master to disciple instruction. Having said that, your mention of "defending a friend" is interresting because it implies the idea that you were attacking someone. Where you? I don't think so. That's why everybody in this thread invested energy into clarifying a misunderstanding between friends. Defending a friend against an attack would have been very different (very sorry, but I do view you as friend as well even though we never met, for the reasons mentioned above (narcissistic wounds, souls blabla etc.)).

The "group dynamic" argument is a classic distorted theme that the predator mind produces regularly to deflect from the core issue. The thing is, there is no group dynamic against you, you are part of the networking dynamic (you have been welcomed to the forum as such), unless the predator mind wants to protect itself by creating the "me and them" divide inside your mind. We all have been there more or less and there is nothing judgemental in pointing it out, just another invitation for self-reflection on this point.

Of course, an invitation can be accepted or rejected, it's all up to you at this point.

axj, I also see that you have never posted an intro about yourself (that I can see anyway, Mods can correct me if I'm wrong). I only mention it because it would be helpful to know a bit about who we are interacting with - for example, how did you find the forum, what you have read, are on the diet and EE program?

Arwenn said:

axj, I also see that you have never posted an intro about yourself (that I can see anyway, Mods can correct me if I'm wrong).

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He didn't have an intro thread, but he joined the forum in 2007 and we didn't start directing newbies to post intro about themselves until 2009.

Zadius Sky said:

Arwenn said:

axj, I also see that you have never posted an intro about yourself (that I can see anyway, Mods can correct me if I'm wrong).

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He didn't have an intro thread, but he joined the forum in 2007 and we didn't start directing newbies to post intro about themselves until 2009.

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Ahh, thanks for that Zadius Sky, I thought that might have been the case.

I appreciate the feedback and even though I did not explicitly state it, I worked on healing a couple of things that were initially triggered by Oxajil's response and I continue working on whatever else may come up.

Nevertheless, I still think that people should be careful not to fall into the "advanced helper" syndrome as a way to avoid dealing with their underlying wounds. It is, in my experience, one of the most common ways the predator tries to lead advanced students astray.

I also think that discussing new and relevant aspects does not necessarily constitute deflecting. In fact, my impression is that there is a tendency by some members here to deflect from the discussion by explicitly or implicitly suggesting that there is a lack of knowledge on the part of whoever suggests something unfamiliar to them.

An example is a loaded question like: "What sort of relationship do you have with your family, that the idea of a break-up seems so reprehensible to you?" Or Arwenn's explicit "You are out of your depth here" comment.

I have been a member of this group even before joining the forum in 2007. There used to be a Cassiopaean mailing list where I participated as well.

Case in point, I was banned by anart for nothing else than pointing out the flaws in her reasoning. When she herself left, the ban was lifted after I pointed out that the ban was unjustified.