About David Icke & James Redfield

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Oh and then Kerry chimes in and says "sounds like you had a Kundalini effect"...

In one of his books (I think its the 9/11 one), that's the exact explanation that Icke gives for his behavior during this period -- a kundalini experience.

The Kundalini effect is believed to occur in connection with prolonged and intensive spiritual or contemplative practice (such as meditation or yoga), which doesn’t fit David Icke story. He says he was happily sports commentating and BOOM!

As I said, anything’s possible. There's also this in Bringers of the Dawn:

As this rebundling or reordering comes together, you will create a more evolved nervous system that will allow much more data to move itself into your consciousness. You will awaken many brain cells that have been lying dormant, and you will come into use of your full physical body rather than the small percentage that you have been functioning with.

Every place on the planet is being affected by this change, this awareness. Those of you who are the Guardians of Light and who wish to completely change this present reality and bring different options in are anchoring the frequency. If it is not anchored and understood, it can create chaos. It will create chaos. This is why you must ground yourselves.

Chaos brings about a state of reorganization when utilized properly. Time is collapsing, and the energy is becoming larger and larger. You have come here to use that energy first. You will make pathways of consciousness as you pull the energy into your body that will assist others so that they may not have to go through what you go through.

Many people will suddenly begin to feel this energy without any preparation at all. You are all pulling light, which is data and information, onto the planet, and as you do this you create new pathways for consciousness to explore without even saving a word.

The new pathways of consciousness create new realities, new options, and new ways of living and being. That is why the collapse of your society is inevitable: It does not hold light; it does not hold the multidimensional possibilities; it holds you in limitation, and you are tired of that.

For those of you who have come to act out your plan and to work with the consciousness of light, your time is now. Your action springs from this moment. All you need to do is begin to allow this energy to come into your body. You must begin to vibrate with this energy and to clear the passages of the self, the emotional energies that hold themselves locked in your physical body. As you begin to examine the self, you will find that there are many selves in which to travel on the inner highways or inner nervous system of consciousness.

You will find that your society has been very cleverly designed to keep you from knowing this most intimate and rewarding and exciting portion of yourself. As Guardians of Light, you are going to create options of reality and bring them to the mass consciousness of the planet. You will do this by first doing it for yourself, creating an inner peace and inner love by accepting who you are and all that you have done in life and all that has been done to you in life. You will accept and integrate these things because you will know they have been exactly the situations necessary to bring you into this final stage of anchoring light.

Do not chastise yourself for not accelerating at the rate that your ego deems appropriate. The ego has eyes that see one part of yourself. The soul, or the eyes of Horus that look through you, has a completely different vision of what is appropriate. Knowing your needs, your constitution, and your blueprint, you
will operate at a pace that will keep you intact. Mental institutions are filled with people who opened the ancient eves and couldn't make sense of it or figure it out; they cannot find their home station. Without a place to plug into, the delicate balance of the nervous system is upset.

 

[un chien anadolu]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Found it!

David Icke: Was he right? - 2:11

He's looking at the original Wogan show here, because he's showing bits that isn't in the Wogan follow-up.

The only bit I can catch from that original interview is this:

Terry Wogan:
Let me get this story right. The press claim that you claim to be the son of God.

David Icke:
Uh-hm (affirmative)

Terry Wogan:
Is that true?

David Icke:
Yes you see the thing is that (audience laughs) you see it's quite funny really, you know 2000 years ago... [rest is cut],

One can barely hear the "2000 years ago", but I would imagine he said something to the effect of 2000 years ago when Jesus proclaimed that he was the son of God, he was also condemned for it.

I think this one is a little bit longer :

_http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/23121/David_Icke_Claims_He_Is_The_Son_Of_God/

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

[quote author=un chien anadolu]
I think this one is a little bit longer :

_http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/23121/David_Icke_Claims_He_Is_The_Son_Of_God/
[/quote]

Thanks un chien anadolu. I still maintain, if you discard what comes out out his mouth, and just look at his confidence and how he comes across, he doesn't appear as if he gone mad or unstable or nervous...or kundalini...or anything.

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

The "David & Goliath?" article by Rixon Stuart is also about this tendency (how Icke unfairly demonized Parliament member David Davis). But I didn't even consider the implications of that until now.

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/images/picture/reptillian.jpg

From the above piece, this slide of David Icke is Credo Mutwa's painting from Reptilian Agenda. It really is quite disconcerting that he uses this as evidence of his shape-shifting reptilians without so much as mentioning psychotropic plants, and that goes for Credo as well.

I listened to another long Credo Mutwa interview last night...something isn't quite right with his mental faculties either, I'm sorry. I don't know if it may be old age or possible senility. He talked to a bunch of Americans who were ooohing and aahing and hanging on his lips, but he very selectively leaves out anything that he knows will be deemed inappropriate by them.

He loves to say "because you thought we were a bunch of savages", but carefully leaves out why that might have happened. In his book he says he had to have sex with chimpanzees and goats as part of his initiation, and I know that goes for all Sangomas in South Africa, of which there is an estimated 300 000. So in my book selective disclosure of information to support one's own case, is deliberate deception. He never mentions the stuff that he knows will freak out the West. Very sleek indeed.

And then the Americans say "yes, how dare they!"...

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Okay now I got to the part in Credo's book of who the 'Children of the Serpent' are. It is the Tutsis and the Masai :(, and that will also explain the great Tutsi and non-Tutsi social division in Central Africa.

For this reason our religious ceremonies - prayers, chants, sacrifices, summoning spirits from the Upper or Lower World, creating zombies, 'deep talk', hypnotism and mind power - are exactly the same from the Transkei to Mali, Dahomey and Ghana. And this shows how wrong foreign scientists and social anthropologists are when they study the tribes of Africa piecemeal. There is in fact only one slender dividing line across Negroid Africa - that which marks out the Old Stock, the Old People or the Greater Bantu (true Negroids in physical anthropology) and the Younger People or Lesser Bantu (Negroids in physical anthropology - a designation that makes no sense).

The Khoisanoids are, of course, not taken into account, neither are the Caucasoid Arabs and Nilotes, the latter including the Watu-Tu-Tsi and the Masai - the Children of the Dragon (according to legend, spawned by the evil serpent with the sole purpose of oppressing and destroying the Bantu).

It is rather troubling to consider that the Rwanda genocide is a result of tribal legends kept alive by every generation (and utilized by someone or something - 4D maybe), and had it's origin in psychotropic plant consumption (thus 4D influence). This little bit of information is another thing Credo didn't quite disclose to David Icke in his elaborate stories of 'the children of the serpent'.

That is why the Hutus (and the Bantus in general) see the Tutsis and Masai still as oppressors!

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

I must say, Credo's book really surprised me in places.

On the same principle, villagers of the Wakambi, Luo and Chako in Kenya keep images of the Masai. The idea is to teach the young children what a Masai looks like so that they can always avoid these evil people. But it is also believed that if the evil spirit of the Masai should reach such a village, it will be caught by these images and not spread to the inhabitants.

They cursed Britain forever due to the building of the dam in the Kariba Gorge, considered the "Holiest of the Holy" place in Africa by the natives. I'm not even going to explain what transpired when these curse rituals were conducted all over Mashonaland (Zimbabwe), of which Credo was a witness. If something shocks Credo, you can just use your imagination. All he could say was 'Oh Africa, my Africa - what, just what is wrong with you?'

All these prayers were supplications to the Gods of Evil and the Mother of High Evil to bring curses not only on the Kariba Dam, but all those building it and on all those who planned it - and on the entire White population of the Federation. And particularly on Great Britain.

There is a little ray of light though:

And what about the politicians of the Colonial Powers who base their policies on the findings of scientists who were supposed to have studied our people? They will achieve nothing by trying to cover up their blunders by pointing an accusing finger at the Republic of South Africa. Here, politicians and scientists consult us and respect our feelings.

...okaaaay, so Britain will never have a second chance on the continent. That also explains Zimbabwe's ... inevitable outcome.

He says the oral tribal tradition will let every new generation know who their allies are, and who their ancient enemies are. These tribal hatreds go deep, like the 1980s Matebele massacre in Zimbabwe, the origin of that went back centuries.

I think the book is a masterpiece, and I learned much. It's beautiful in some places, it's just full of sobering realizations as well. The only consolation to me, is that the book was written in 1964, and Credo was underestimating the modern future. In a way he's intoxicated by his Zulu pride a little, but that's a Zulu thing.

I'm thankful for this 'insider's account' however, but a lot things he says is just...very troubling. He says the only people who can effect change in any African crisis, like the Congo, are the witchdoctors. They need to be put in power, they are the only ones the people will listen to. There's a lot to be read 'between the lines' in this book.

I did find his 'transmigration of the soul' interesting:

Grass phase - Tree phase - Beast phase - Human phase - Reptile phase - Bird phase - Star phase

A lot of their beliefs (all from mythology & legend, and maybe with the help of some plants as well) are strangely similar to our current understandings. They believe in reincarnation, they have their own version of the yin/yang, and then they also have an infinity symbol, which is the oldest symbol in Africa - a black mamba biting it's tail, and they even have something that might roughly refer to the 7 densities. ;)

 

[anart]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

I listened to another long Credo Mutwa interview last night...something isn't quite right with his mental faculties either, I'm sorry. I don't know if it may be old age or possible senility. He talked to a bunch of Americans who were ooohing and aahing and hanging on his lips, but he very selectively leaves out anything that he knows will be deemed inappropriate by them.

... So in my book selective disclosure of information to support one's own case, is deliberate deception. He never mentions the stuff that he knows will freak out the West. Very sleek indeed.

The strongest impression I came away with after watching the Credo/Icke interview was that Credo is a story teller and that he embellishes so much that it's very hard to keep track of the signal, when there is one. I got the impression that he has a tenuous grip on reality and that he thinks that's okay since he sort of rambles and spins as he goes along. I found him - at times - quite irritating to listen to, yet I could see how he might spell bind his listeners with his often complexly woven tales (or is that tails?). ;)

I think there is likely some truth in what he says, but, as you've said, the use of hallucinogenic plants, and the resultant impressions, is strong.

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

I got the impression that he has a tenuous grip on reality

No definitely. It's difficult to even tell if he had a better grip on reality back then (almost 50 years ago). One of the most obvious examples of his 'questionable' mental faculties (and I'm being kind here), is how his story changes on what the Tokoloshe is.

Here’s one of his more recent accounts from an interview:

http://www.metatech.org/credo_2.html

Sir, in the country called Zimbabwe, where I had my encounter in 1959, there is also another creature. This is the most amazing creature, and I saw it once, and so did several other people, some Black and some White, who were with me. This creature is a huge creature, and shaped exactly like a gorilla, but it is unlike a gorilla, which often walks on its feet, as well as on its knuckles. The creature I’m talking about, sir, stands about 8 feet or 9 feet high, and is built exactly like a gorilla, but its body is very powerful. Its shoulders are very wide, it’s neck is very thick. It is covered with thick, rough fur, like no other wild animal in Africa.
It is a humanoid creature, with thighs and legs and feet, as well as arms and hands which look exactly like those of a human being, only covered with a heavy mat of dark-brown fur. This creature, sir, is known as Ogo by the people of Zimbabwe. And schools of people have seen this creature, hundreds over the many generations. Some of these creatures have been seen right here in South Africa, in isolated bushy and mountainous places. And these Ogo are, detail for detail, exactly like what the Native American people of the Northwestern United States call a Sasquatch or Bigfoot.

In fact, I say it is the same creature and we have it right here in southern Africa. It is also exactly the same creature, but with a totally different skin color, as the one that is seen by the people of Nepal on the slopes of the Himalaya mountains, the creature that is called a Yeti.
Now, then, the last creature, sir, a creature which is so well known in South Africa, and elsewhere in Africa, that if you mention its name, people smile. It is called a Tokoloshe. Every African knows what a Tokoloshe is. Some call it Tikoloshe.

It looks like a very nasty looking teddy-bear in appearance, in that it’s head is like that of a teddy-bear, but it has got a thick, sharp, bony ridge on top of its head. The ridge goes from above its forehead to the back of its head, and with this ridge it can knock down an ox by butting it with its head.
This creature causes the Black people in certain places to raise their beds on bricks, one brick laid on top of the other one, about 3 feet above the ground. And you find this all over South Africa. This Tokoloshe likes to play with children, and has been seen hundreds of times by school children, in various parts of South Africa, even in recent times.
Sometimes it will terrorize children by scratching them as they sleep, leaving long, parallel scratches on a child’s back and upon a child’s thighs, scratches that become infected and itch terribly.

About two years ago, a creature like this terrorized a whole school of children in Soweto, near Johannesburg. And the school children called it pinky-pinky. Now, this creature is not only known in South Africa amongst Black people, it is also known, sir, amongst Polynesian people of Hawaii, and other islands in the Pacific. These people lift their huts, their grass houses, on stilts, to the height exactly that Africans lift their bed. When you ask a Polynesian, “Why do you built your huts like this?” The Polynesian will say, “We want to protect ourselves from Tiki.”

Now, this is interesting, sir-that a creature exactly like the one seen in South Africa is also seen on some Pacific islands, and the name by which it is known in the Pacific, Tiki, is very close to the African word Tikiloshe, or Tokoloshe.

But in his book, he says this (not for sensitive readers):

Something should be explained here that has never been explained before. All foreigners in Africa have heard of a tokoloshe. But their idea of one, if they have any, is that of a hairy, human-like elf that lives in the water and is sometimes tamed by wizards to terrorise people. This concept is, like so many others, completely false. And those who reject the whole idea of a tokoloshe as so much superstition had better be careful. A tokoloshe is not just a figment of the imagination of a bunch of superstitious savages, as one ‘enlightened’ White correspondent was pleased to call the Bantu in a letter to the press.
Many beliefs of the Bantu are based of scientific fact, and the tokoloshe is one of these. Nobody starts believing anything unless some fact triggers off the belief. It can only be wrong if the fact was misunderstood.

The Bantu, especially, never start believing anything unless a fact of some description can motivate the belief. The decline of Christianity among the Bantu can be related to this circumstance. The Christian Missionaries came to us with stories of guardian angels watching over us, but they could not substantiate this belief with a single incident or fact that would justify it. However far-fetched and however wrong, I have explained what facts gave rise to the beliefs cherished by the Venda about the python.
Every single belief that the African holds can be traced back to some scientific fact, understood or misunderstood. The African is more sceptical and less gullible than most people think; he has not the refined imagination of the ancient Greeks who could create out of thin air all those satyrs and centaurs.

Many generations ago, before the Bantu had moved South of the Zambezi, an old wizard avenged himself on a foul tyrant who had killed all his wives and raped his daughters before flinging them to the crocodiles. The name of this wizard was Mulundi, and that of the tyrant, Kambela. It is said that Kambela was so cruel, he was even cruel to his own person and the very hut he lived in. He used to fly into a tremendous rage for no reason and if nobody was near on whom he could vent his spleen he turned upon himself and bit big chunks of flesh from his arms.

He would beat himself up till he bled all over. One of the few wifes he could get to live with him he once locked into a hut and suffocated her with a cow-dung fire while he watched the expressions on her face through a little hole. His favourite method of punishing people was to tie several of them to trees and then push long iron awls into them to see who would scream loudest and who would take longest to die.

Mulundi was determined to put an end to Kambela but he did not know how to set about it because Kambela was always closely guarded by a team of foul thugs who were as loyal to him as foul thugs can be to a thug only a shade fouler. Mulundi had sent a threatening message to Kambela a few days after the latter had raided his kraal, in which he swore to kill Kambela even if it took him a thousand years. He also told the tyrant chief that he would not see a new moon in the sky again; he would be dead before the moon turned full.

Kambela became very scared of the old wizard whose powers were widely known and he stayed in his kraal with all gates tightly shut. His evil warriors guarded him day and night. But the old wizard had seen a weakness in the stockade of the chief’s kraal and he already knew how to exploit it. What he did has been copied by all wizards since – and thus the tokoloske came to be created.

Growing just outside the stockade was an old leafy tree, an ancient marula that had seen much and whose spreading branches extended well across the stockade. One night Kambela lay in his hut in solitude and sullen anger; he had just drunk a great pot full of strong beer to drown his fear and calm his heart. He knew wizards never made idle threats. He had called his witchdoctors and they had given him potions guaranteed to frighten evil spirits away. His gross ugly body was sticky with greasy ‘charm medicines’ intended to repel demons, and three witchdoctors squatted outside the bullhide door which he had securely fastened from the inside.
Weary from panic, Kambela slept, but not for long. He opened his eyes and beheld a sight which was to be the last thing he saw on earth. Poised over him was a squat little figure oozing the very essence of evil. It wore a hideous skin mask and a costume made of the skin of baboons. Dangling from a string round his neck was the partly decomposed head of a woman. It held a bow and poisoned arrow at the ready.

Kambela tried to scream but his voice died in his throat as a hardly audible hoarse croak. The first tokoloshe that ever walked this earth released the taut string of the bow and Kambela felt the arrow sink deeply into his bowels. He died with a look of terror on his face.
A sound of mad laughter shattered the moonlit night and every warrior in the kraal felt his blood freeze. Many dashed outside the gate of the stockade to find the owner of the voice and they were just in time to see a sinister little silhouette sneak away against the midsummer moon. The very first tokoloske was on his way back to report to Mulundi that his mission was completed and was a great success.

The warriors dashed back to Kambela’s hut and had to force the door open. They found him dead, but there was no assassin’s footprint and no trace of how he managed to enter the hut. Mulundi passed his secret on to other wizards and even today tokoloshes turn the hair of people white and baffle the police who are called out to try and solve many unaccountable murders.

A tokoloshe is not a ghostly or supernatural phenomenon. He is a physical human being, and he operates along perfectly scientific lines. Mulundi had used a very small pigmy whose weight he had drastically reduced with a severe diet. He had furthermore turned the little creature into a zombie by a simple interference with his brain. A sharp awl can do the trick. He was posted up the marula tree and along a branch that reached across the roof of Kambela’s hut. With a long thong he lightly descended upon the roof of the hut and wriggled his skeletal frame through the grass roof. He escaped the same way.

The weird practise has today been perfected into a fine art. Cases are known to me where wizards have arranged the fake death of a particular person whom they have selected for a prospective zombie. The person is actually buried, but exhumed the same night and revived. He is then turned into a zombie and, many days or weeks later, heavily decorated with parts of other people’s bodies, also exhumed from graves, the puppet is induced to pay a particular victim an unexpected visit. The victim simply dies of fright. It is a simple as that. Any chance eye witness will relate a beautiful tokoloshe story to the police, and the police will dismiss it as so much nonsense.
In later generations the wizards perfected their art of tokoloshe-making and they started breeding tokoloshes from childhood. As recently as 1922 there was a secret tokoloshe farm kept by a gang of wizards in the Drakensberg in Basutoland.

With the arrival of the White Man and Christianity the killing of children who were born cretins and idiots went out of fashion, and these grotesque specimens of humanity grew plentiful. But an idiot is something no one misses should it mysteriously disappear – the parents least of all – and many of these idiots, particularly female, landed up in the hands of the wizards. They reared them and, when adult, they mated with them and kept them in dark caves for their children to be born. Often, in Basutoland – the land of ritual murder – the babies were brought into this world the caesarean way with no concern over the life of the mother. Parts of her body were used for medicines that were administered to her own baby to make it grow up in an atmosphere of deep evil.

The baby was reared by other idiot women who fed it a mixture of the milk of dogs, donkeys and cows, and the blood of ravens and vultures. At the age of six months it was subjected to specialised treatment for its particular task of the future. It was made to develop a crooked or hunch back by strapping it to a curved piece of wood. The legs too were strapped into attitudes that encouraged their growth into grotesque shapes. At the age of twelve the tongue was damaged to destroy speech. The child was taught to hate the world and idolise its wizard master.

It was then put through a course of queer tricks ranging from tree climbing with its crooked limbs to burrowing underground. It was taught ways to commit murder and to perfectly remove all its tracks afterwards. When it had reached the age of about twelve, the wizard had in his hands a lean featherweight puppet-like creature, an unthinking robot that obeyed every command – a creature worth a hundred head of stolen cattle to the one who bred and trained him.

Genuine tokoloshes are today found only in Basutoland and Nyasaland, where hiding places in the mountains can still be found for them. With the difficulties in breeding, rearing and keeping this kind of tokoloshe these days, the wizards have resorted to using baboons and monkeys. Their young are turned nowadays into the weirdest monstrosities and can be taught to do considerable damage to their master’s enemies.

There is currently a growing market for tokoloshes in South Africa. A trained monkey or baboon tokoloshe fetches a substantial price. The tokoloshe is no figment of the imagination. The word tokoloshe means ‘a great mysterious evil’. The Bantu will never portray one in a carving. When a Bantu describes something as a tokoloshe, he says ‘a mysterious evil’ and means ‘mind your own business’.

I don’t doubt that they were maybe capable of what Credo describes above, I guess I have just seen and heard too much by now. Earlier on in the book, from their mythology, Tokoloshes were demonic spider-like creatures comprised completely of metal, which is likely where the modern day name was taken from.

I’m sorry, I’ll stop now with Credo, enough is enough. I just thought it was important to deal with the matter of him once and for all as not even remotely a credible source for anything. It would be comical that he’s one of David Icke’s main sources for his reptilian story, if it wasn’t so tragic, given David Icke’s following.

Either Credo has enough mental faculties left to know not to relay the above story to his newfound Western audience (if it is in fact true), or he is just really sick to come up with something like this…or he is truly senile today, and therefore the contradicting stories about the Tokoloshe (amongst others), or the plant kingdom has made him stark raving mad. The above is like the African primitive version of greenbauming...

I have noticed a lot of people actually in the ‘alternative business’ lately name dropping Credo with much affection. They need to do their research… Maybe his abduction should also be considered, was he maybe 'doctored' for some purpose?

(or is that tails?). ;)

Ouch!

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

I guess for me it comes down to this; Icke is still crying for himself here. Psychopaths/narcissists do cry for themselves. It really is all about himself, always. If Icke cared for others, it would have reflected on his forum. It doesn't. Last night I watched him interviewed after another one of his public appearances, and he said "I'm as well known in South Africa as I am in Britain". It really is all about him, always. There is no 'we' or 'us' for him.

This is a good point. When Icke is saddened at the thought of his child being ridiculed because of his reputation, is he crying for the child, or is it just about his reputation? Based on this video alone it's hard to tell... But looking at the wider context of other things he's said, the answer looks pretty clear. I guess the thing to determine now is whether the crying is genuine (narcissism) of if it's a show (psychopathy). If determining this is even possible. But just knowing that with Icke it really IS "all about Icke"... that by itself goes a long way.

The "David & Goliath?" article by Rixon Stuart is also about this tendency (how Icke unfairly demonized Parliament member David Davis). But I didn't even consider the implications of that until now.

I’ll read that tonight, but to come out on top in Parliament and be labelled the ‘Tony Blair’ of the Green Party, means you gotta possess some qualities that we don’t deem admirable over here.

Very true. The Stuart article in general reads a bit like professional jealousy/sour grapes. A letter was written about this to Rixon Stuart, and it's featured on the Icke website. It's titled "In defence of David Icke," and although it was written in July of 2008 there's still a link to it on the Icke homepage. The letter is here: _http://www.davidicke.com/content/view/14492/82/.

Here's what the writer has to say about David Davis specifically:

You mention that Dave Davis is sincere in his stance against `Big Brother`. Well please address the following questions; If Mr Davis is genuine, then why have two MPs who are members of the Henry Jackson Society, a `Neocon` Thinktank come out in open support of Davis's platform ? The MPs in question being, Ed Vaizey MP, Michael Grove MP, along with Colonel Tim Collins, all three of which are signatories to the pricipals of this `Society` which has proven links with `The Project For The New American Century` and which numbers amongst it's patrons such `Illuminaries` as Richard Perle, Robert Kagan and James Woolsey together with a host of others of the same ilk ? If Mr Davis is genuine, why has he accepted paid engagements as a speaker at the `American Enterprise Institutute`, the `sister` of PNAC and the Hudson Institute `Neocon` Thinktank ? If Mr Davis is genuine, why are people like the Shadow Chancellor George Osbourne, a recent attendee at the Bilderberg meeting in Washington openly supporting his campaign ? If Mr Davis is genuine, why was Patrick Mercer MP also supporting Mr Davis `Anti Big Brother` stance, when he himself has close business connections to security and surveillance firms who manufacture and sell the very equipment being used to install the `Big Brother` state ? I could continue, as there are many discrepencies and contradictions involved in Mr Davis' supposed stand against Totalitarianism. The very fact that you yourself have come out openly in support of him, at the same time defaming, debasing and casting doubt on Mr Icke's platform could, if one continued the chain of supposition far enough place similar doubt on your own sincerity. This is how rediculous and impossible the whole scenario has become. It's a `school outing` for the Illuminists whose very existence and success depends on `Divide and Rule`. Okay, perhaps David Icke has his faults, don't we all. Pehaps he had never heard of Adam Weishaupt until Dave Starbuck informed him as such. I mean, honestly, is a man really expected to list as a credit all such things, at evey juncture, whenever he is informed in personal conversation by someone about something. Let's be realistic here. Does Mr Starbuck (whose excellent work I am proud to support) credit every person or source every time ? Probably not.

I believe that the true background to the constant personal attacks made on Icke are due to the fact that he is highly critical of organised religion, and as I have mentioned above, many of the researchers in this field tend to be Christians. It might well be that Mr David Davis MP is truly seeking to use his position as a Member of Parliament to turn back the tide of Authotarianism sweeping across Britain. If so, good for him. But your diatribe against David Icke, was clearly of a personal not academic nature and has done neither yourself, nor your site any credit whatsoever.

Once we feel we've got enough to reach a solid conclusion, maybe we can turn it into some kind of article.

Yeah, imagine the damage control then?

If we can "inspire" some damage control from the Icke camp, that could be a good thing. But it could be bad if it leads to some sort of attack. If Icke (or at least Icke's "people") feels we are targeting him, who knows what could happen? Especially if our conclusions turn out to be correct, or even very close to correct.

How many turquoise tracksuits do I own? We've descended from the nature of reality, mate, haven't we? After 16 years of seeing what's going on in the world and meeting the victims of it ... when I pick up the mainstream media every day I could vomit. I'm trying to share information with you. I don't want to talk about tracksuits. End of bloody story.

You see, that short fuse again. What did Gurdjieff say again about rubbing someone up the wrong way.

…and once again, evading the question. He just cannot and will not address the issue, because he can’t admit that he made a mistake.

Exactly. Asking him about the tracksuits is perfectly valid. Icke has never explained why he once thought it was so important to wear turquoise, then later changed his mind. People tend to notice such changes. So a simple explanation from Icke could put an end to the issue. Saying "I don't want to talk about it, grumble, grumble..." is neither productive NOR a sign of an enlightened mind, as Icke claims to have. Besides, Icke makes such a big deal about how he no longer cares what people think of him. He claims it as his great victory. So what's with the anger? Icke does this every time he feels that someone is taking him lightly or mocking him. He comes back with some prickly comment full of attitude. The "old Icke" never reacted like this. So in that way Icke seems LESS "enlightened" now than he did back then.

There is definitely narcissistic wounding with Icke then. I remember when he talked of his mother’s death, which also had quite an effect on me. But it’s again him talking about himself, always.

A few years ago I watched the video of him talking at his mother's service. In retrospect, it almost seems like he was using his mother's death as a platform to promote his ideas. But on the other hand, since Icke has specific beliefs on the afterlife, wouldn't it be natural for him to discuss them at the memorial? To frame his mother's death in an "uplifiting" way? It may be a form of self-comforting (similar to what's said at Christian memorials)... But beyond that, I don't know. I'd like to re-watch this video to refresh my memory on exactly what he said. Do you have a link to it? I searched for it but couldn't find it anywhere.

So to sum up, everything our parents do to us is out of higher love, ESPECIALLY if they're abusive. Unless they're using that pesky, horrible free will. Then their motives are anyone's guess. Yeeeeshh....

I just really get the impression that he’s adamant not to recognise pathology.

It really does seem that way. Pathology is like the elephant in the room that Icke just won't see. And it's all due to Icke's interpretation of astrology. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that astrology acts as a reflection of our actions down here on Earth. It's a holographic correspondence, where each part of Creation reflects every other part. "As above, so below." So in that way it's like a map of human history down to the finest detail. But it's not a situation where the stars and planets literally CONTROL our lives. Yet this is the traditional belief that's been handed down, and Icke has fully absorbed it. Since he is always talking about the holographic nature of the "Matrix," it's unusual that he doesn't interpret astrology in that same light. He instead has an archaic, superstitious view that starkly contrasts with most of his other ideas. Plus, his astrology ideas cover up pathology, OP's, STS/STO, and the mechanical nature of man - all very neatly - in one fell swoop. This is likely to be deliberate. But I doubt Icke alone would know enough about the Truth to conceal it purposely. I also don't think he would have any personal motive to do so; his only motive seems to be self-promotion. So even though Icke may be a narcissist or a psychopath, it seems that he's still a tool of someone/something else.

Project Camelot Interviews David Icke – 00:21:05

<snip>

Okay so here’s David Icke latest account of the Wogan show to the Project Camelot crew. Firstly, I never knew the original Wogan show interview was quite that lengthy, 15 or so minutes. I don’t think we’ll ever get our hands on that interview again, so what exactly transpired there remains a mystery.

David Icke is also very ‘selective’ in his account of that interview to them. He never says he called himself the son of God, which was the reason for the ridicule. He says he was in a daze and had no idea what was happening to him. Okay, I suppose anything’s possible, but he looked very coherent to me in that interview… It's a very easy way out to say "I had no idea what was happening to me", and the going on about how he was released from worrying about what other people think.

Yes, this is a really flimsy excuse. All of the "old Icke" stuff is along the lines of the Wogan inteview, including what he wrote in his books at the time. Also, he was supposedly repeating info that he was "told" to say. If he is now claiming that info to be wrong due to his "dazed" state, he needs to explain this further, because it appears to invalidate the "Godhead" which gave him the info. Which invalidates the very beginnings of his career - along with any current claims of getting info from a "higher source." Either Icke didn't know what he was doing, or he was passing on info from a higher source. He can't have it both ways. Yet this is exactly what he's trying to do.

Oh and then Kerry chimes in and says "sounds like you had a Kundalini effect"...

In one of his books (I think its the 9/11 one), that's the exact explanation that Icke gives for his behavior during this period -- a kundalini experience.

The Kundalini effect is believed to occur in connection with prolonged and intensive spiritual or contemplative practice (such as meditation or yoga), which doesn’t fit David Icke story. He says he was happily sports commentating and BOOM!

As I said, anything’s possible. There's also this in Bringers of the Dawn:

<snip>

Do not chastise yourself for not accelerating at the rate that your ego deems appropriate. The ego has eyes that see one part of yourself. The soul, or the eyes of Horus that look through you, has a completely different vision of what is appropriate. Knowing your needs, your constitution, and your blueprint, you
will operate at a pace that will keep you intact. Mental institutions are filled with people who opened the ancient eves and couldn't make sense of it or figure it out; they cannot find their home station. Without a place to plug into, the delicate balance of the nervous system is upset.

I've read several accounts of spontaneous "kundalini awakenings," so it's tough to say. Most of these accounts say things similar to BotD - that a spontaneous awakening almost always leads to bad consequences, as the person is not physically or mentally prepared. Also, consider what Gurdjieff has said about kundalini:

Gurdjieff's view on the matter differs from most sources. He agrees that such a thing exists but teaches that it is the source of false imaginings, an actual bane of man, the remnant of the ill-famed 'organ kundabuffer' which is discussed extensively in Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson. Kundalini is in effect the spell by which the 'evil magician' has hypnotized man to believe himself to be a magician while in truth he remains a sheep. Awakening the kundalini causes man to go live deeper in illusion and is ruinous to the Work, says Gurdjieff.

Taken in this context, maybe Icke really DID have a kundalini experience! It would definitely fit what we've learned about him. You're right that Icke doesn't appear dazed and confused in the Wogan interview. But perhaps he felt that way inside... and maybe it wasn't exactly him doing the speaking. His "source" may have been taking advantage of Icke's disoriented state to speak through him directly. Icke has acknowledged that they've done this on occasion.

From the above piece, this slide of David Icke is Credo Mutwa's painting from Reptilian Agenda. It really is quite disconcerting that he uses this as evidence of his shape-shifting reptilians without so much as mentioning psychotropic plants, and that goes for Credo as well.

Indeed. Even if Icke and Credo feel that psychotropics reveal the truth, it's a big leap to assume that they reveal facts in a literal, 3D sense. A lot it is also just a reflection of the person taking the drug. Icke's 2003 experience - assuming it really happened - confirmed exactly what Icke already believed. It also did so in surpisingly clear, direct language, which isn't typical. By contrast, Credo's seems far more authentic. And on some level Icke must realize how shaky the info gained from this is, otherwise why would he ignore/conceal Credo's psychotropic influences? Especially while shouting out loud about his own?

Okay now I got to the part in Credo's book of who the 'Children of the Serpent' are. It is the Tutsis and the Masai :(, and that will also explain the great Tutsi and non-Tutsi social division in Central Africa.

<snip>

It is rather troubling to consider that the Rwanda genocide is a result of tribal legends kept alive by every generation (and utilized by someone or something - 4D maybe), and had it's origin in psychotropic plant consumption (thus 4D influence). This little bit of information is another thing Credo didn't quite disclose to David Icke in his elaborate stories of 'the children of the serpent'.

That is why the Hutus (and the Bantus in general) see the Tutsis and Masai still as oppressors!

Wow, this is quite a revelation! If the entire "children of the serpent" idea is just an excuse for hating rival groups, Credo really has been hiding things.

I must say, Credo's book really surprised me in places.

Credo seems a lot like a "Martin Luther"-type figure. He's someone who clearly sees the need for change, yet he's still viewing it from inside the "box" of his religious/cultural system. Which is understandable.

The strongest impression I came away with after watching the Credo/Icke interview was that Credo is a story teller and that he embellishes so much that it's very hard to keep track of the signal, when there is one. I got the impression that he has a tenuous grip on reality and that he thinks that's okay since he sort of rambles and spins as he goes along. I found him - at times - quite irritating to listen to, yet I could see how he might spell bind his listeners with his often complexly woven tales (or is that tails?). ;)

I think there is likely some truth in what he says, but, as you've said, the use of hallucinogenic plants, and the resultant impressions, is strong.

This is the logical impression from him. Which indicates that David Icke isn't exactly logical, because he came away with the exact opposite impression. For Icke it was simply, "Oh, this man is confirming my ideas!" And then he ran with that, ignoring - or perhaps concealing - any other factors involved.

I got the impression that he has a tenuous grip on reality

No definitely. It's difficult to even tell if he had a better grip on reality back then (almost 50 years ago). One of the most obvious examples of his 'questionable' mental faculties (and I'm being kind here), is how his story changes on what the Tokoloshe is.

That definitely shows how Credo's ideas come from elaborate storytelling rather than actual fact. I remember him telling Icke that "pinky pinky" was what locals called the Gray aliens, because beneath their artificial gray "covering" their true skin is pinkish and reptilian. So yet another contradiction.

[quote author=E]
I’m sorry, I’ll stop now with Credo, enough is enough. I just thought it was important to deal with the matter of him once and for all as not even remotely a credible source for anything. It would be comical that he’s one of David Icke’s main sources for his reptilian story, if it wasn’t so tragic, given David Icke’s following.
[/quote]

There's no need to stop with Credo, as long as the info is relevant. Like you said, it's important since he's one of Icke's main sources. You've revealed tons of good stuff about him. It may be enough in the sense that we can now see pretty clearly that Credo is not reliable. But if anything else comes to mind that's relevant, don't hesitate to share it.

[quote author=E]
Either Credo has enough mental faculties left to know not to relay the above story to his newfound Western audience (if it is in fact true), or he is just really sick to come up with something like this…or he is truly senile today, and therefore the contradicting stories about the Tokoloshe (amongst others), or the plant kingdom has made him stark raving mad. The above is like the African primitive version of greenbauming...

I have noticed a lot of people actually in the ‘alternative business’ lately name dropping Credo with much affection. They need to do their research… Maybe his abduction should also be considered, was he maybe 'doctored' for some purpose?
[/quote]

It's very possible. Another factor may be his huge "trip" after consuming the flesh of a "Gray alien." So maybe he was being prepared/conditioned to connect with Icke and feed him certain info? Rixon Stuart claims that certain researchers knew about Credo before Icke met him, but he didn't really become a prominent figure until Icke brought him to light. And now, as you said, many alternative types point to him. So it could've been a greenbaum-style plan to lend Icke some credibility. It could also be 4D STS - if they crafted Christianity by editing history, it would be simple for them to engineer things like this.

 

[Argonaut]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

I found a lengthy 1999 interview with Icke on the Metatech website: _http://www.metatech.org/david_icke_and_reptilians.html. It's worth reading in its entirety, but I want to post the excerpt where Icke talks about why he started focusing on the concept of Reptilians. It includes Credo Mutwa and Arizona Wilder, but also many smaller "witnesses" and sources which led his work in that direction. It apparently began while he was researching bloodlines:

And, again and again, when you get into the genealogy, my goodness me, that takes some time and sweat, you hit the same genetic lines when you're looking at people in positions of power. It seems to me that these lower fourth-dimensional entities have actually been working through what we call the Illuminati to actually control the planet. And, while all this was unfolding, I started getting some very bizarre stories told to me.

Martin: I bet.

David Icke: And the thing about my life, Rick, in the last 10 years or so, consciously walking this journey-I now realize that I was unconsciously doing it all of my life-is that suddenly a subject heading will come into my life, and once it's appeared, I'm meeting people literally from all over the world, because I've been in 21 countries in the last two years now, and been back to quite a few of them, so I can start to see, as a result of traveling, these common themes that are coming up all over the world.

And one theme that came up last year, May '98, it had been around a little bit but I put it on the back burner. There wasn't enough evidence to talk about it, really. And that was that people had seen people in positions of power, not exclusively so, but overwhelmingly so, turn into a reptilian form and then go back to human. And, in a period of 15 days, in May 1998, I met 12 separate people in different parts of America from different walks of life and different backgrounds, in my travels, who told me the same story. I thought, "What in the hell is going on here?!"

When I came back to England, the sequence continued. I was asked by a couple of people, who were members of the House of Lords, in London, to go and talk to them at the House of Lords about the manipulation, which they also realized was going on. And I chatted with them for a while, and there was a lady at the meeting who kept saying some very interesting things about Diana, you know, the Princess of Wales. And after the meeting, I said "Look, hey, we gotta talk."

She said, "We have." And we went off and chatted.

I said, "Where did you get this information about Diana?"

She said, "My best friend was her closest confidant on things she couldn't talk about to anyone else for nine years." Now, this lady has actually appeared in the press from time-to-time as being a close friend of Diana. Anyway, she said, "I think this lady might talk to you. She's never talked to anyone else."

So, I went to see her and her name was Christine Fitzgerald. She starts telling me about the connection, all of the treatment of Diana by the Windsors, which was utterly, utterly outrageous. I haven't talked to this lady Christine Fitzgerald about these bizarre stories I'm being told by people around the world. Then, as the conversation unfolded, she said, "Oh, do you know what Diana's nickname for the Windsors was?"

I said, "No, go on."

She said, "The lizards or the reptiles." And she said, "She used to say, in all seriousness, 'They are NOT human!'"

Christine Fitzgerald went on to tell me: "You know, the Windsors are a reptilian line, they're not human." And that "the British Royal Family, and its inter-linking bloodlines, are actually reptilian, they come from a reptilian extraterrestrial race."

And I'm thinking, "Bloody hell, not another one!"

And I came back here-about an hour and a half from London-my home is in England. I knew of a guy called Ted Heath, who was Prime Minister of Britain from '70-'74, and I knew that he was involved in some serious horrendous things, like sacrificing children, and all this stuff, because of people who had seen it. And, a lady I knew, who had contacted me, wanted to tell me about her experiences with Ted Heath, so I went to see her, not to talk about shape-shifting reptilians, but to talk about Ted Heath and satanic ritual involving the elite of Britain.

And, again, but just as a quick incidental-when you follow these bloodlines from the ancient world to the present day, this satanic ritual, human sacrifice and blood ritual, even using the same deities in the rituals, is a common and constant, unchanging theme. So, it would be very surprising if the elite today weren't into this, because these bloodlines always have been, just like Bush is into it and people like that. Anyway, I went to see this lady and she told me about her experiences with Heath and stuff.

In a place called Burnham Beeches, which is an area of forested land notorious for satanic ritual, among people who have studied these things, it just so happens that, although Burnham Beeches is on the outskirts of London, not far from Heathrow Airport, the place is actually owned by the City of London, the financial district which is the epicenter of this control.

I just finished me cup o' tea-you know how you do in her house-and I was just making my way to leave, after she told me this stuff, and I said to her, just to throw away a line as I left, I said, "You know, I'm having some bizare things happening to me at the moment." I said, "I keep meeting people who tell me that they've seen people shape-shift into bloody reptiles."

And, honestly, she grabbed her chest and she was gasping for breath like she was having a seizure.

"Oh, my God," she said, "I thought it was only me."

And she went on to tell me that she wasn't going to say that to me because she thought that even I would find that unbelievable. She said, "All that stuff I've told you about Heath and seeing him in the satanic rituals and all that stuff," she said, "I wasn't going to tell you what I also saw. He shape-shifted into a reptilian, during the ritual. What staggered me," she said, "is that none of the other participants were at all phased by it, as if it was a natural thing that always kind of happened."

This has gone on, Rick, to the present day. I was in Vancouver, speaking, and I met about 4 or 5 people who told me the same story, including a business woman, who is a real feet-on-the-ground, you know, power-dressing kind of 5,000 clients business woman. And she said she had this relationship with a guy who was Portuguese, and he just turned into a reptile in front of her.

I had just spoken at a financial conference about the manipulation of the world in the Bahamas, and two people there told me the same story. One told me how she was in a religious cult, and on one occasion, the cult leader changed into a reptile in front of her face.

And she said, what was most amazing is that he focused on her, and the others couldn't see it, but she could, and she said she just went out of the room and started driving and never stopped, really.

You know, this is now hundreds and hundreds of people who I've met from around the world, from many walks of life-a couple of television presenters who interviewed this guy live and, when they went back in the green room one said, "I had a very strange experience during that interview. The guy's face turned into a bloody reptile."

"Oh, my God," said the other, "I saw his hands turn into a reptilian."

And so this is-then you look, of course, at the ancient world, and you start to see constant references to serpents and the serpent race. Not that all references are literal-I mean, there's the serpent symbolism that's used massively-but when you get, like, the Nagas, the gods of the ancient Hindu religion, who were said to be able to take human OR reptilian form.

And then, while this is going on, Rick, I thought, "I'm sure Cathy O'Brien mentioned bloody reptiles in her candid and shocking book, with Mark Phillips, called Trance-formation Of America."

Martin: Yes.

David Icke: I got a copy of that, started flipping through the index, looking for reptiles, thinking, "My life is getting more bizarre by the minute."

Martin: (Laughter)

David Icke: And, I'm going through the references in the book and, of course, Cathy talks in the book about being with George Bush and that George Bush-and she obviously took this to be part of the mind control, she took it to be a holographic image, it was part of the mind control-but when you put this other evidence together, well, hold on a minute.

She talks about being with George Bush, and him saying that they were an extraterrestrial race that came from a "far off space place" who'd taken over the world, and no one realized it because they look human. But, she said, he changed in front of her into a reptile. She talked about being with the Bennett brothers, these politicians, political figures in America, and how they put her through a mind-control program in which they said they came from another dimension and they were inter-dimensional beings.

And she had an experience during that time of seeing a White House cocktail party where everyone turned into bloody reptiles. And then she talks in the book about being withMiguel De La Madrid, in Mexico, who was, of course, President during the Bush years, and how he told her, she said in the book, the story of the Iguana race. And, Miguel De La Madrid said that an extraterrestrial reptilian race had interbred with the ancient Mexican people because they needed to create bloodlines or bodies they could work through, and these particular bloodlines could take either human or reptilian form. She says in the book that he actually shape-shifted, not totally, but facially, into a reptilian form when she was with him.

Now, when you start putting all of this together, Rick-I have simple philosophy-I follow information, and I'll go where it takes me. If you come from, anyone comes from, any belief or background, whether it be religious, political, or whatever, and they are rigid with it, then they're never going to uncover what's going on because that belief, that rigid belief, will start to edit information when it comes toward you, and you start editing-out information that's taking you away and challenging your original belief-system.

I haven't got any of that stuff, fortunately, and so I just follow information, and it's taken me into these areas. Interestingly, too-and I'm just going back there, so I'm going to do some more on this-when I was in South Africa, about February last year, I met a Zulu shaman, a famous Zulu shaman in South Africa. I met with him for about five hours about various things.

He knew about the elite and the manipulation and the extraterrestrial connection, and all this stuff. He's in his 70s now, I mean, he's lived a long time in Africa, and is a very great expert on African legend and stories and experience. And he told me, during this chat, that he got a call in March of 1997-this is before the August when Diana died-and this caller said that she was the Princess of Wales and wanted to talk to him.

Now, he didn't believe this, at first, and he certainly didn't believe it when she said to him that she was calling him from what, he termed, a supermarket phone. "Princesses don't call from supermarket phones," he thought.

Well, when I talked to Christine Fitzgerald about two months later, her confidant, she said, "That makes absolute sense, because Diana knew that her phones at Kensington Palace were tapped, and when she wanted a clean line, she used to go into a local department store," to what this shaman would have been a supermarket, "to use the public phone to get a clean line."

This shaman told me-and he later realized they had a connection, one of his students was a relative of Diana-and, interestingly, this shaman talks a lot about extraterrestrial connections with humanity and his own extraterrestrial experiences, of which he has had some astonishing ones.

Anyway, she said to him that she wanted to talk to him because she had something to reveal about the Windsors that would shake the world and she wanted advice in how best to do it. (Note from Stephanie Relfe: Is this why they murdered her?). And, talking to a lady who I met after Christine Fitzgerald, a lady called Arizona Wilder, who claims to have conducted rituals for the British Royal Family, that Diana knew that they were actually shape-shifting reptilians who shape-shifted during the rituals and, I said to this shaman, "What was it she wanted to reveal about the Windsors?" And he said, "I can't tell you, it's just too terrible. I don't want to get into any more trouble."

So, I said I knew that Diana knew that the Windsors were involved in the global drug-running operation and she knew that they were involved in that. And he just shook his head.

He said, "Oh, no." He said, "It was much worse than that."

And I'm going back there soon, so I'm going to have another go at finding exactly what it was.

But this Arizona Wilder lady, again, came on the scene after Christine Fitzgerald. I found her in Los Angeles, or near Los Angeles, and I went to see her, not to talk about shape-shifting reptilians, yet again, because I wasn't talking about it at the time; I was just gathering information. I went to talk to her about the rituals she said she conducted for the British Royal Family, and the Bushs, the Kissingers, and people like that in America.

Because Arizona Wilder, even though she's got red hair today, is actually blond haired, with piercing blue eyes. And the blond-haired, blue-eyed thing is fundamentally involved in all of this stuff, and what have you. Anyway, that is why Project Monarch is overwhelmingly, if not exclusively, blond-haired, blue-eyed people.

I went to talk to her about the rituals that she says she conducted. So, we're getting into this stuff, and she's telling me about the rituals at Balmoral in which, you know, human sacrifice takes place in Scottland, the Queen's Palace in Scotland, and also at Glames Castle and the Castle of Darkness, as it's called, in Belgium, which Fritz Springmeier and Cisco Wheeler talk about in their book. And I had heard all of this from other sources, I mean, Christine Fitzgerald was talking about the stuff they got up to, but then, as the conversation unfolded, Arizona said to me: "But that's not the most bizarre thing that happened."

And I thought, "Well, how much more bizarre can you get, the Queen of England sacrificing children?" And, she said, when the blood started to flow, they shape-shifted into reptiles.

And, in their reptilian form, they're very, very different-I mean, like, the Queen Mother, this sounds funny, really-but the Queen Mother is an old frail 99-year-old, but that's the physical form in three-dimensional reality. But it's not the physical form of the reptilian that's working through her, according to these people.

And I got a call from a lady in America who is the head of Parents Against Ritual Abuse. And I was talking to her, again, not about shape-shifting reptilians, but about the ritual abuse of children in America, and she said during this conversation, "Do you know, about 12 of my clients have actually reported that, during the rituals, they've seen the participants turn into reptiles." And, she said, "I've always taken it to be that they're dressing up to confuse them."

But when you take all of this together, Rick, all this emerging information, and since I've gone public on it, obviously, in the book, you start to attract people who know they can talk to you, because, you know, the thing that keeps this quiet most of the time is that people who know things and have seen things think, "Well, who's going to believe me?"

And, interestingly-and this is a true story also, and it kind of sums up the way this has been unfolding-when The Biggest Secret was at the printers in January, I got a call in America from a guy, he was just a guy who read my other books, and he said, "Hey, you got a new book coming out?"

I said, "Yeah, it's at the printers now."

He said, "What's it about?"

I said, "Well, you'll have to read it because some of it is so bizarre, if I told you about it, well, you'd think this is crazy."

So anyway, we go on chatting about what you do and where you've been and all this stuff. So then, after about ten or fifteen minutes into this conversation, he says, "Hey, you're going to think I'm mad," he said, "but have you ever come across anyone who has seen people in positions of power, like Bush, Gorbachev, Kissinger, turn into reptiles?"

I thought, "Shit, not another!"

I said, "Well, why do you ask the question?"

He said, "Because I keep seeing this." He said, "When they come on the television, I keep seeing them turn into reptiles."

So, the story has gone on-interestingly, too! I can't remember the exact word now, but I was interviewed on a radio station by the guy who does reverse speech. Have you come across that?

Martin: Yes, I have.

David Icke: Well, he wanted to talk to me about some reverse speech they'd taken from a guy Ken Bacon-do you remember the guy who was the Pentagon spokesman, or White House spokesman-Pentagon spokesman, I think, during the Kosovo war, and they had done some reverse speech on him and said, "Do you know what this means? We can't work it out."

And it was clear as day. He was making a statement about the war to the press, and in reverse it said something like, "We are the people of the snake and we"-something like, I can't remember the exact wording now, I've got it on tape in America, basically-"we are the people of the snake and we look after our own" was basically the theme of what he said, clear as day, and I nearly dropped off the chair.

So,there is something in all of this which holds the key to understanding so much about how the world has been controlled, where this world is actually controlled from, and I would strongly suggest that what we are looking at with the Kissingers and the Bushs and the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds and all these people, are actually the three-dimensional, physical expressions of a lower-fourth-dimensional consciousness and manipulation. And the physical Illuminati are merely the three-dimensional expression of the fourth-dimensional control of planet Earth.

So it seems like these people kept coming into Icke's life, spontaneously sharing info about Reptilians with him, essentially pushing him into talking about the subject. Even Icke himself views all of this as him being "led" or directed by something. And it does look that way - assuming most of these encounters actually happened. If Icke were able to understand that the "good guys don't play chess," maybe he'd get the picture. But he seems too in love with his own status as a "chosen one."

 

[thevenusian]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Who is "Lincoln Lawrence"?

In response to the query 'who is Lincoln Lawrence?' I searched through the used books offerings, and acquired a copy of his 1967 book 'Were We Controlled?', an early attempt to explain the unresolved questions around the assassination of JFK. After just one pass through this remarkable collection of words, I would tentatively characterize him as a Jeff Rense of 1967. A disinfo artist weaving a narrative made from threads of truth and threads of lies, all spun together to produce a cloth which is unable to be validated or verified in total, and which results in anyone touching it feeling confused and uncertain and more than likely to leave it alone.
To summarize the book, it advances a hypothesis that a group of powerful financial elites engineered the assasination of JFK for their personal financial gain through short-selling stocks, and did so through utilizing secret mind-control technology which, through the efforts of government-sponsored research, was far more advanced than anyone thought possible. This mind control was accomplished using electronic memory-destruction (which sounds like electro-shock treatment) on specific individuals, and then radio-wave transmissions to trigger implanted behavioral suggestions. It was never really explained to my satisfaction how this group of elites managed to co-opt this super-secret technology for their own use, but then it is a rather short book with no footnotes or references, so maybe it was designed to be short and sweet.
I don't really have the time at the moment to devote myself to the detailed analysis this incredible concoction of BS deserves, but my first impression is that this book is an early effort at misinformation, and as such may be a treasure-trove of information through reverse-engineering, knowing what we know now. For example, the whole mind-control bit laid out in the book is a bit over the top, and he even offers apologies and validation to Dr Delgado's research in this field- (a 'shining light' is DR Delgado, showing us the unseen mysteries of the human mind). But the fact that he even chooses to go into this could also be seen as a certain validation that some kind of mind-control was, in fact, part of the truth the PTB wished to obscure and confuse. The same with the financial manipulations based on foreknowledge.
So, the short answer to the question 'who is Lincoln Lawrence' is that he is not someone to be trusted to be telling the whole truth, whoever & whatever else he may also be. And there is additional evidence which suggests he may in fact be a part of, or beholden to those who wish to deliberately obscure the truth, and manipulate the conclusions of people seeking it, at least this is my humble opinion.
Interestingly, for those who do internet searches of things, all searches for 10 pages deep on 'were we controlled' or 'Lincoln Lawrence' on Google came up with ONLY pages from 'wanttoknow.com' website. That is a bit odd. Hmmm. Something doesn't smell quite right here. Searches on his supposed real name, Arthur J Ford, have not produced any further enlightenment for me at least. My 2 cents.
I'd be happy to send my copy to a more capable researcher for further dissection.

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

Here's what the writer has to say about David Davis specifically:

Yeah, and he was also for attacking Iraq apparently I read. But all these things about David Davis needs to be double checked, and not only be taken as fact from the Icke camp. We know that Icke gets away with half the stuff he gets away with because his followers don't bother to do their research independently, and we know that his damage control team knows what they’re doing.

If Icke (or at least Icke's "people") feels we are targeting him, who knows what could happen?

I doubt they will attack us directly, they will draw too much attention to us. They have to think twice about anyone they draw attention to, given Icke’s considerable following, especially if our analysis stands up to scrutiny. Let’s just give the lie what it asks for, or as you said, as close as we can get to it, and let the rest take care of itself.

Do you have a link to it? I searched for it but couldn't find it anywhere.

I’ll have to find it again as well, it’s a long time ago that I watched it. The bit that I watched was him describing the viewing of his mother after she died, and how impressionable it was for him that the body that was left was completely devoid of his mother’s presence, how it’s just a corpse now, no spark, no soul, and how the body is just a ‘computer’ or tool utilised by the soul to experience the 3D reality.

So even though Icke may be a narcissist or a psychopath, it seems that he's still a tool of someone/something else.

No for sure, the strongest evidence of that for me is the nature of his ‘solutions’. Ask any Icke follower what Icke’s solution to our dilemma is, and you will just get a blank stare. As an experiment, we can post the question on the Icke forum, and see what turns up. Do you wanna write the question, or shall I? If he’s joining hands with Jones now, the answer might be a revolution or rioting…in stark contrast to his earlier very vocal appeals ‘not’ to riot.

If he is now claiming that info to be wrong due to his "dazed" state, he needs to explain this further, because it appears to invalidate the "Godhead" which gave him the info. Which invalidates the very beginnings of his career - along with any current claims of getting info from a "higher source." Either Icke didn't know what he was doing, or he was passing on info from a higher source. He can't have it both ways. Yet this is exactly what he's trying to do.

Yup! And he’s slipping if he’s ‘discrediting’ his ‘higher source’ like this now, because as recently in 2008 he said this:

ABTS asks:
Mr Icke, first of all let me thank you for all the work you’re doing for the people of this planet. You’ve often spoke about an energy or entity around you. What do you think this is? A spirit guide, a guardian angel? Have you had communications with this being?

David Icke:
Thank-you. I have come to understand this ‘force’ around me far more in recent times. It is consciousness beyond the ‘Matrix’, beyond the program, that is feeding in information to explain the illusion that we are caught in – and how to free ourselves. Anyone can access this level of knowledge, but most people don’t because they identify who they are with the programmed ‘world’ and believe it to be real to all there is. What we believe, we experience. This guiding force is getting stronger and stronger within me every day to the point where I don’t have to research as much in the ‘five-sense’ way anymore. Much of it comes direct.

[quote author=Argonaut]
[quote author=E]
...and even more shocking, these two from Project Camelot, Bill and Kerry if I remember their names correctly, say that the most emails they have had in the past, was requests for David Icke to be interviewed, and they don't know about the Wogan show? Is that even possible? I mean...seriously? Have they not researched the person who they "get the most emails about"?
[/quote]
Yes, that is very odd.
[/quote]

If we give them the benefit of the doubt, then it’s lazy research. It might be more than that, given their sizable American audience.

Taken in this context, maybe Icke really DID have a kundalini experience! It would definitely fit what we've learned about him. You're right that Icke doesn't appear dazed and confused in the Wogan interview. But perhaps he felt that way inside... and maybe it wasn't exactly him doing the speaking. His "source" may have been taking advantage of Icke's disoriented state to speak through him directly. Icke has acknowledged that they've done this on occasion.

Okay so we have yet another possibility on our hands then.

And on some level Icke must realize how shaky the info gained from this is, otherwise why would he ignore/conceal Credo's psychotropic influences?

I don’t even know if Icke made the connection. Credo never mentions it in the Reptilian Agenda. I mean I only made the connection due to the necklace, the painting behind him and the statues/sculptures, due to the recent Graham Hancock thread .

I don’t even know if Icke is aware that reptilians, flying saucers, gray aliens etc. is standard ayahuasca (or other plants) ceremony ‘imagery’ – because if I’m not mistaken in his only session he had, he didn’t have that typical imagery. I mean only because of Credo’s book that I read and the muti book, could I fully put two and two together. I honestly didn’t know that psychotropic plant consumption was so common and widespread. I always associated it with tribal ritual in deep, dark Central African and Amazonian jungles.

My muti book is really interesting. It was such an eye-opener. 80% of the adult population in Yemen drink/chew Khat/qat. 80%! They grow Khat/qat plantations.

Botanical name: Catha edulis
Common names: Khat, qat, Bushman’s tea

A Mind and Mood Plant

There is something about being human that drives us towards altering our psychological state. Whether it’s a glass of wine or a yoga class or a mind-altering plant, we want to remove ourselves from the reality of our day-to-day existence.

So it is with khat, qat or Bushman’s tea, as it is also called. Khat/qat is Arabic for the natural stimulant from the fresh young leaves and stems of the Catha edulis tree. Its use is generally associated with East Africa and Southern Arabia, notably Yemen, where it is widely grown and daily used by about 80% of the adult population. What is not generally known is that the plant is also grown and used (to a lesser degree) in parts of South Africa, including the Cathcart and Bolo districts of the Eastern Cape.

Traditional use of khat here was originally learned from the Bushman hunter-gatherers, hence the name ‘Bushman’s tea’.

“The fresh young leaves and stems are chewed for the energy and endurance they give the user, and for freedom from hunger and fatigue during strenuous activity.” Ben-Erik writes in People’s Plants, an excellent guide to human-friendly plants in Southern Africa, which he co-authored with leading South African medical ethnobotanist, Nigel Gericke.

The juices of the khat plant have a unique psychotropic (mind-altering) effect, giving the user clarity of thought, alertness, energy and increased sociability. Which sounds wonderful, but the bitter juices can cause nausea and stomach pains. You also have to chew several handfuls of leaves and stems to feel the stimulating effect, which is hard going on the jaw and very time-consuming.

In Yemen, the men start chewing their daily dose of khat in public at noon each day and keep chewing all afternoon. By about five/pm you can see the khat has taken effect by the glittery look in their eyes and their lack of hunger.

Because of this hunger-combating component, an infusion of khat leaves can be used to assist in weight loss. Cold water infusions of the roots or bark are taken for diarrhoea and dysentery, and a root infusion is taken orally for male infertility and to treat boils.

The active ingredient in freshly-picked khat is called cathinone – which has amphetamine-like properties. Cathinone has been classified by the United States Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) as a Schedule 1 narcotic, the most restrictive category used by the DEA.

Considering the effort that goes into chewing fresh khat, it is unlikely to become a popular street drug in any country other than Yemen and Ethiopia, where its customary use is ingrained. However, illegal laboratories in many countries have been producing a synthetic form of cathinone – known as ‘cat’ – which attracted a sizeable following.

Khat, in its natural form, ranks amongst a long list of mind-altering plants. Tea, coffee and cocoa are also included. From the earliest of times these plants have been used by humans for a wide range of mental and spiritual applications: from communication with ancestors to mood upliftment to relief from physical or psychological pain.

The social acceptance or tolerance of the use of psychoactive plants, is often culturally determined. Irrespective of its acceptance or taboo factor, habitual use of any of these plants is potentially very harmful.

The side effects of habitual use of khat include aggressive and paranoid behaviour, personality problems, hypertension, insomnia, constipation, low libido, emaciation and debilitating effects on family budgets. Accordingly, anyone thinking of experimenting with khat or any other plants that have mind-altering ingredients is strongly discouraged.

“What is exciting about these ‘mind and mood plants’ is that the true extent of the traditional use of psychoactive plants in Africa is not yet fully understood.” says Ben-Erik. “With the development of increasingly elegant analytical techniques, our ongoing scientific studies of these plants are revealing new psychoactive molecules. They present exciting potential for the developments of effective new treatments of pain, migraines, depression, schizophrenia and other mental health conditions.”

Time magazine also featured an article about it:

Is Yemen Chewing Itself to Death?

Credo seems a lot like a "Martin Luther"-type figure. He's someone who clearly sees the need for change, yet he's still viewing it from inside the "box" of his religious/cultural system. Which is understandable.

Well I actually lay awake a long time last night thinking about Credo’s book. In some places he displays such wisdom, but in other places his wisdom is severely lacking. His book was written in 1964 in apartheid South Africa, so racial injustice is a central theme. He’s very sympathetic towards the Afrikaner, even applauding sometimes. But the Afrikaner and the Zulu still have a strange affection for each other, to this day, even though we love to hate one another from time to time. We share a big past, and we shared a communal enemy, the British. My mother spoke Zulu before she could speak Afrikaans, because all the other children on the farm were Zulu, but her Zulu is rusted nowadays.

We’ll see what the future holds, but it’s going to be interesting. ‘Jay-Z’ actually went as far as calling the Afrikaner the only true white South African, infuriating every English speaking white South African with one single sentence. Maybe he’s also utilizing the plant kingdom… He does have a habit of turning his apron in the direction of the wind though.

I remember him telling Icke that "pinky pinky" was what locals called the Gray aliens, because beneath their artificial gray "covering" their true skin is pinkish and reptilian. So yet another contradiction.

Yeah I’ll have to watch that bit again. I really think he’s senile, or has taken too many psychotropic plants.

It may be enough in the sense that we can now see pretty clearly that Credo is not reliable. But if anything else comes to mind that's relevant, don't hesitate to share it.

Well with Credo there’s much more than just him contradicting himself (possible senility). His moral compass is also seems to be…uhm…missing. In his book he’s lashing out again at the ‘civilised’ West for not acknowledging or utilizing ‘inventions’ coming out of Africa. Particularly, the art of zombie-making…

The African conducts research on a very different plane from that of the White man, and for this reason he has made discoveries that the White man has overlooked in his headlong rush to outer space. The Black man possesses tremendous knowledge that could make a great impact, even on the modern world, and he has hidden this knowledge now for hundreds of years under the cloak of ‘voodoo’ and ‘black magic’.

Some of this knowledge could be of incalculable strategic value. There is, for example, the valuable role zombies could play in times of war. A suicide squad of zombies would be an ace up the sleeve of any general, even in modern conditions of war. The Bantu have had the secret of zombie-making now for thousands of years. The art of producing a zombie is mentioned in our legends dating back to the later phases of the Stone Age.

Some or other interference with the brain with some tool, turning the 'victim' into a mindless puppet or servant blindly following orders.

To get back to the plant kingdom again.

When young mercenaries from the White population of South Africa slipped out to join the forces of President Moise Tshombe in Katanga in 1960 and 1961 they made a startling discovery. They came across Baluba warriors who kept on fighting with severed arms and half-a-dozen bullet holes in them.

These warriors were simply drugged, by a drug that was also extensively used by the Zulus, especially in the battles of Rorke’s Drift and Ulundi. A modern soldier thus treated, could blow the heaviest tank to kingdom come with grenades, single handed. His blind immunity to pain and fear and his fantastic daring would have a profound demoralising influence on the enemy. If the South Africans troops had had this drug with them at Tobruk, history would have had a different story to record.

I would imagine this must be the African wormwood, which would also explain why Vincent van Gogh could so effortlessly chop off his ear. It is actually true this, it’s an observation the Boers also made in battles with the Zulus in our history books, but they just attributed it to extreme physicality. They never made the possible connection with a plant substance.

 

[Stuart]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

If Icke (or at least Icke's "people") feels we are targeting him, who knows what could happen?

Back in early 2008 the Icke camp wanted to shut a website down:

Hi

May I introduce myself, I am a member of the "Illusions Forum" (_http://illusions-forum.com/phpbb3/). I am writing to you to inform you of the recent events surrounding David Icke's attempts to have our forum shut down and removed from the internet. Please find attached a PDF file containing a copy of the letter forwarded to our server provider from "David Icke Books Ltd", insisting that our forum to be terminated.


"Illusions" is an alternative forum much like your own, where we talk about conspiracy-based themes and ideas, alternative health, spirituality, etc. It was formed by a group of people who found their original "home" - _www.davidickeforum.com - shut down several years ago with no warning. We moved to "Illusions" with the desire to carry on speaking our minds on numerous subjects, and of course these concerned the life and work of one of the most prolific conspiracy researchers - David Icke.

Mr. Icke has been making demands on our membership to stop discussing his weekly newsletter by reproducing elements of this work on our forum, in order to critique it. We received almost weekly warnings from the webmaster (Sean Adl-Tabatabai) of Icke's site (_www.davidicke.com), informing us that if we did not stop reproducing paragraphs from Icke's copyrighted newsletter (which he now charges £3.00 per month to be delivered weekly via email), that legal action would be taken. Of course, we had no intention of having our growing dismay of Icke's recent behaviour in policing the internet for minor reproductions of his work curtailed in this manner, but we took the right decision to remove as much of his material as we deemed relevant, whilst trying to keep the numerous debates intact. It is prudent to convey that Mr. Icke and "David Icke Books Limited" take their copyright very seriously indeed.

Recently we were shocked and surprised to find Icke's webmaster - Sean Adl-Tabatabai - had rejoined our community (his original account was deleted because of his desire to no longer post at "Illusions"), under the psudeonym of "daisy" (_http://illusions-forum.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4426). As this character he attempted to disrupt every thread on our forum which was written voicing concerns, or critiquing the information promoted by David Icke (we were writing about his broadcast interviews, newsletter and website information). The comments Mr. Adl-Tabatabai made were childish in nature, baring no relevance to the debates themselves. This behaviour is known as "trolling" a forum. Sean Adl-Tabatabai, David Icke's webmaster and producer of his DVD ouptut, had taken it upon himself to become a "troll" on our forum for David Icke.


When Mr. Adl-Tabatabai was openly confronted with his behavior, he denied it at first, and then admitted to his comments and seemingly disappeared from our lives for good. Two days later we received the attached fax from our server provider outlining the opinion of one Linda Atherton (formerly Linda Icke, David Icke's erstwhile wife), on behalf of David Icke and "David Icke Books Limited", that our fourm should be: "shut down because we are considering legal action".


We have become obviously outraged by this demand, and the hypocrisy that Mr, Icke and his colleagues have displayed in this matter beggers belief. How could a man who has travelled the world speaking as a champion for the freedom of speech, has written so many books promoting the open mind and appreciation for all creeds and openly states that "I don't care what your opinion of me is, mate", now insist that a forum with less than 300 members (at the time of writing) should be bulldozed into oblivion just because we openly disagree with much of what David Icke has written and said these past three years (_http://illusions-forum.com/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4468)?

We bring this information to your attention to acknowledge, ignore or dismiss as you choose. We are not seeking allies to join us in any crusade, we only want people to be aware that the self-titled "most controversial speaker in the world" is trying to shut us down for speaking our minds.

If he succeeds, what a sad day that will be for all of us within this community.


Many thanks for your time and please pass this information on to as many people as possible.

Illusions Forum (_http://illusions-forum.com/phpbb3/)

Please find below a text version of the attached fax:

> David Icke Books Ltd
>
> Suite 1
>
> 185a High Street
>
> Ryde
>
> Isle of Wight
>
> PO33 2PN
>
> England
>
> 28th March 2008
>
> To Whom It May Concern,
>
> RE:_http://illusions-forum.com/phpbb3/
>
> There are numerous pages on this website _www.illusions-forum.com which reproduce, in their entirety and partially, several written newsletters and images which are owned and copyrighted by David Icke Books Limited and davidicke.com which I am a legal representative of.
>
> Could you please remove these as they breach David Icke Books Limited copyright, who own our servers with all the databases and images stored within.
>
> In addition to this, there are numerous threads on this website which continuously make slanderous and libelous remarks to our website - _www.davidicke.com, to David Icke (who owns the website) and to Sean Adl-Tabatabai who is the webmaster for davidicke.com.
>
> Despite numerous requests over the months to the domain owner and representatives who run (moderate) the forum - nothing has been done about it.
>
> Our website - _www.davidicke.com - has blocked links and any content from this website from being discussed or linked to. Yet Ilusions-forum.com continue to link to, post and harass our website and the staff who run it by making various libelous comments and posting copyrighted material (as shown above).
>
> Here are a few example links of either private, libelous, or defamatory comments which have been posted on this forum recently (which at the very least need to be removed).
>
> [_http://illusions-forum.com/phpbb3/]
>
> As we have tried on several ocassions to reslove this issue with the domain owner, and failed, I now wish to make a formal complaint. I believe that simply deleting the offending content will not resolve the matter, and that they will continue to post abuse. Please would you consider shutting down this domain as we are considering legal action.
>
> I have a good faith belief that use of the copyrighted materials described above as allegedly infringing is not authorised by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law.
>
> I swear under penalty or perjury, that the information in the notification is accurate and that I am authorised to act on behalf of the owner of the exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.
>
> If you have any questions regarding this, please email me - Linda Atherton - _info@davidickebooks.co.uk or call xxxxxxxxxx
>
> Kind regards
>
> Linda Atherton
>
> Director and Company Secretary.

_http://www.conspiracycafe.net/forum/index.php?/topic/17132-important-david-icke-tries-to-shut-down-conspiracy-forum/

The forum in question seems to have gone now, so you can't look at the referenced posts. But it seems the guy caused some waves because it forced Icke and his team to back off with the whole shutting down the domain:[Bold emphasis mine]

Hi all,

Recently we complained to the hosts of illusions - forum . com regarding copyrighted material being posted on their website - with the request it get taken down. We also mentioned on this copyright complaint letter 'abusive' and 'slanderous' attacks that some members on the forum were sending out to this website and it's staff and of course David, suggesting they might want to shut it down.

Of course, we don't have the power to shut the website down - and after thinking about it we wouldn't want to shut a website down purely on the basis of personal content people are posting - regardless of what it says.

We are standing by the copyright complaint with the request now confirmed by David. But anything regarding "abuse" or it being "shut down" isn't going to be taken seriously by the hosts any longer, and we have absolutely no desire to pursue that.

Here is what David has to say on the matter:

'I couldn't care less what they say because they are a bunch of irrelevant, self-indulgent navel-contemplators who are doing the Illuminati's job for them by seeking to undermine any researcher who commits the crime of actually getting the information out to the mainstream public.

For them, it is not about exposing manipulation and injustice, nor serving the greater good, it is about finding a vehicle for their own bile and hatreds. What deeply sad people they must be to have so much bile and hatred to hurl at their daily targets. How acidic their bodies must be by now, let alone their minds.

I feel for them, imagine living with that every day.

They are just cowards who hide behind log-in names to spew out their hatreds from their gutless anonymity. They have balls the size of processed peas and the word pathetic does not even begin to suffice.

I have already done more to inform the public worldwide, and change lives for the better, than these people will do if they live to be a thousand. That's all that matters to me, not the trash that is constantly hurled in my direction.

Why should I, or anyone else, care what such people say about me or anyone? They are utterly irrelevant and they have made themselves so by their child-like and gutless behaviour.

So long as it remains within the medium of words, I think it is only right that they should have the freedom to continue to act like bullies in the playground (all bullies are cowards) because the right to be a moron is a basic human right that must be protected.

I would only suggest that they rename their website Self-Delusion.com in the interests of accuracy.

I have taken 20 years of monumental abuse and misrepresentation on a scale that few have ever experienced. So what is said about me by anonymous goons on websites is like a fly on an elephant's back - irrelevant to me. But if others who are targets of this vicious abuse want to take legal action in response, that is entirely up to them.

Personally, I have far more important things to do than waste precious thought, let alone time, on these sad and silly people.'

_http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=23212

The way he displays his narcissism, bites back with equally childish insults, seeks pity as if he's the victim, and deflects the fact that it was his team who were "doing the Illuminati's job", seems to go over the heads of his devoted followers.

 

[Erna]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

I found a lengthy 1999 interview with Icke on the Metatech website: _http://www.metatech.org/david_icke_and_reptilians.html.

David Icke does not believe in Jesus, and I understand that he does not even believe in God. It is my experience that, while much of his information is HIGHLY valuable, his book “The Biggest Secret” is a little too overwhelming for some people, not necessarily because the information is too hot to handle, but because at the same time that he gives people information which can cause fear, he takes away the very thing which gives many people freedom from fear, and that is their faith in and connection to God and/or Jesus. Most of his information is excellent. I recommend it, as long as this point is kept in mind.

You gotta admit that it's a little bit funny that Icke saw himself as 'the second coming' and 'the son of God' with a direct line to God himself, and now he's denying God's existence and telling the human race to "get off their knees".

That might be a tough one for him to explain, ya know - the 'son of God' is saying "get off you knees" and there is no God, while he had a direct channel to this 'non-existent God' at some point...

When Credo asked him "Mr. Icke, are you a religious man?" and Icke said "no", and Credo said "good" ... little did Credo know he's actually speaking to the son of God...

 

[durabone]

Re: About David Icke & James Redfield

The strongest impression I came away with after watching the Credo/Icke interview was that Credo is a story teller and that he embellishes so much that it's very hard to keep track of the signal, when there is one. I got the impression that he has a tenuous grip on reality

Nice anart! Uh, the thing I stumble on is this. The ideas he lays out, covert control by non-human aliens, a copper city, eating ET flesh, seem to be pretty evolved for someone perhaps not as sumpt in these ideas as are many of the web-surfers that we have known. My point being, we all had a frame of reference and many steps to embrace the idea of 3D/4D control by outsiders. If Mutwa did not have the internet etc., or perhaps books, then what is his frame of reference for these ideas, and who are his peers on the matter? If he is not feeding the pantheon that we can scope out of Deyo's 1978 dia-tome, then what is he doing, and who is his intended audience? If he has developed most of his ideas sans the surfer traditions, then he may be really out there on his own. If true, then his different-enough jingo and articulation might suggest that he really did a lot of idea development on his own, and that could imply ...

He certainly speaks to us as if he knows that we already have a frame of reference, though that could have come later. He's been at this since as early as 1959.

So...

This book "Oddities A Book of Unexplained Facts" by Rupert T. Gould
(careful there is another Oddities by a Gould out there, get the right one)

provides a depiction of the Berbalangs, and your statement about the beds
3 ft off of the ground reminded me of it. I have the original hardback,
I'll check this WE to see if I can confirm about the bed thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berbalang_(legendary_creature)

One more...

Oddly Mutwa seems to almost glibly mix the idea of ETs with the underground beings he describes ... and as readers of Keel ... this seems key ... I'd like to sort this part out)

Icke would have us believe that he simply stumbled upon this validating resource in Mutwa, right? Is Icke's focus more 'underground' than Mutwa's?

E, I took off during Christmas and left an excellent discussion. Sorry to have disappeared on you. It'll take me a bit to catch up with all of this. Happy 2010!