I should add a note about how/why I got there with the silver. For years I used a deodorant called Dry Idea. Recently I was examing the contents on the back label - it listed only the inert ingredients. Then I noticed that the label was a peel-off label. Upon removing it I found the active ingredient and a warning stating that if you had kidney problems, you should consult your physician before using! I was disgusted - thus how I got to the silver.
Marie said:
I was writing about the dangers of fluoride recently, and as often happens when keying out a paragraph intended to convey what I believe to be an important point, I paused over the 'Post' button thinking, "Yes, this is a well-written argument and it will probably have a powerful affect upon the reader, but you KNOW you didn't fact check your star detail. --In this case the 'Nazis used Fluoride in Prison Camps' factoid."
So I dug around and found a copy of Joseph Borkin's "The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben" over here. . . http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/sociopolitica/sociopol_igfarben02.htm Assuming that this is the complete text, it should be noted that there is no mention of water fluoridation in it anywhere for the subduing or sterilization of prisoners or otherwise. (It IS, however, an illuminating read which I recommend. After doing a word and phrase search for "Fluoride" "Water" "Camps" "Sterilize", etc., (and finding no claim that Nazis were drugging the water in prison camps), I read through the chapter on I.G. Farben's involvement with prison camps. There is some eyebrow-raising information there which people studying Ponerology may find useful in advancing their awareness).
In any case, the claim of using fluoride on prisoners is not necessarily false; it's just not conveniently packaged by a simple factoid. There are other claims on the web attributed to other authors regarding Communist Russia buying large quantities of Fluoride from American companies for the express purpose of sedating prisoners, but these are not so easy to pin down with hard data. They do relate to I.G. Farben, and the extensive history that Farben had with the Nazis as described in Borkin's book certainly illustrates how the company lacked all conscience and certainly cannot be trusted with public health.
As such, it seems to me that the "Nazis used Fluoride" story is a red herring which perhaps evolved quite innocently through the writings of an over-enthusiastic author alarmed by the dangers of fluoride. However, the end result is one of those annoying memes which spreads wide and lies in wait like a land mine when it comes time for the Popular Science types to 'debunk' very real concerns. This is a constant danger in the war of knowledge, so it is important to recognize false information whenever possible so that it can be pruned and so that those fighting the good fight don't look silly on any witness stands.
The other possibility. . , is that the copy of Borkin's book I found on line was NOT a complete version and had the offending articles removed before it was posted on the web. (You never know; it's the web, after all). So anybody who feels like checking out an original paper version of, "The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben" would be most appreciated.
Mountain Crown
The Living Force
Hi Woodsman,
One big source for Nazi's using fluoride is rense.com and that's a red flag from the start. He published a supposed letter dated October 2 1954 by a certain chemist from Milwaukee named Charles Perkins which stated:
and:
It's a pretty big claim to be based only on hearsay, but maybe a little digging regarding this Perkins guy might reveal something.
One big source for Nazi's using fluoride is rense.com and that's a red flag from the start. He published a supposed letter dated October 2 1954 by a certain chemist from Milwaukee named Charles Perkins which stated:
and:
It's a pretty big claim to be based only on hearsay, but maybe a little digging regarding this Perkins guy might reveal something.
L
Lauranimal
Guest
OK.... I'm on the search. I did come across a chatboard, where this very question came up, and a couple of the people on the board said that they in fact had the hard copy of the book, "The Crime and Punishment of I.G. Farben" written by Joseph Borkin .... and none of them could find any reference to water fluoridation in it anywhere.
And while I still haven't found any objective evidence, I DID find a very interesting article on BeFreeTech.com . It makes a lot of very interesting connections and is well worth the read, but the author does not notate their sources (Grrrr!)
_http://befreetech.com/fluoridation.htm
It was interesting to note that, after the page on fluoride there were many pages to follow, detailing other substances detrimental to health, such as: Canola oil (Rapeseed), MSG, vaccinations, the effect of microwaved water on plants.
I will continue the search...
Edit: I found the full article from above, here: _http://www.scribd.com/doc/12490011/Fluoridation-and-Mind-Control Still no sources (Grrr)
And while I still haven't found any objective evidence, I DID find a very interesting article on BeFreeTech.com . It makes a lot of very interesting connections and is well worth the read, but the author does not notate their sources (Grrrr!)
_http://befreetech.com/fluoridation.htm
It was interesting to note that, after the page on fluoride there were many pages to follow, detailing other substances detrimental to health, such as: Canola oil (Rapeseed), MSG, vaccinations, the effect of microwaved water on plants.
I will continue the search...
Edit: I found the full article from above, here: _http://www.scribd.com/doc/12490011/Fluoridation-and-Mind-Control Still no sources (Grrr)
L
Lauranimal
Guest
So, here we have a history of Monofluorophosphate. Very interesting. Original application as an insecticide.
_http://www.fluoride-history.de/p-mfp.htm
When the history hit's the 1930's, there is a bit of historical white-washing going on. Seems The chemical companies are trying to erase their responsibility for the governments use of their discoveries of fluoride being an effective nerve agent.
Still.... haven't found that objective connection about fluoride being added to water for the purpose of dulling people down.
....still on the search...
_http://www.fluoride-history.de/p-mfp.htm
When the history hit's the 1930's, there is a bit of historical white-washing going on. Seems The chemical companies are trying to erase their responsibility for the governments use of their discoveries of fluoride being an effective nerve agent.
Still.... haven't found that objective connection about fluoride being added to water for the purpose of dulling people down.
....still on the search...
L
Lauranimal
Guest
I am hitting a dead end. There is no technical data to back up the statement.
Does anyone know how to (and for that matter, where to) file a freedom of information act type of thing? If I wanted to access information that the US gathered from WWII Germany under the FOIA, I haven't got the first clue how to proceed. But I suspect that may be the only way to get verifiable data.
If someone knows HOW TO. I am willing to do some leg-work in the DO IT. (if it can be done from where I am. Don't think I will be able to travel to DC. Do we have any members in DC?)
Does anyone know how to (and for that matter, where to) file a freedom of information act type of thing? If I wanted to access information that the US gathered from WWII Germany under the FOIA, I haven't got the first clue how to proceed. But I suspect that may be the only way to get verifiable data.
If someone knows HOW TO. I am willing to do some leg-work in the DO IT. (if it can be done from where I am. Don't think I will be able to travel to DC. Do we have any members in DC?)
Lauranimal said:
From Val Valerian's "Analytical Chronology of Fluoridation: Politics versus Science" (Nov 1997):
1942 Germany becomes the world's largest producer of aluminum (and Sodium Fluoride). Fluoride is used in IG Farben managed concentration camps to render the prisoners docile and inhibit the questioning of authority. It is quite conceivable that this knowledge was brought back to the United States Government under the auspices of Operation Paperclip (1944) and Project 63, which lasted almost 35 years, where Nazi scientists, engineers, technicians, and intelligence personnel were brought to the United States and integrated into the military industrial complex, already under Rockefeller and IG Farbenindustrie control. (Ref book: "The Crime and Punishment of IG Farben" by Joseph Borkin).
I am not a fan of the source but this reference book regarding the history of fluoride/fluoridation appears to be very good. Next, these two entries:
1944 Through 1948. Previously classified documents from the Manhattan Project which indicate the government knew the physiological and psych-behavioral effects of fluorides, as a result of studies connected with determining of uranium hexafluoride processing on workers, as well as studies in defense of litigation against the project by tree growers who experienced fluoride damage from airborne pollutants connected with the project. Ref Declassified documents from the National Archives published in 1997.
1944 An April 29, 1944 Manhattan Project memo, released in 1997, states "Clinical evidence suggests that uranium hexafluoride may have a rather marked central nervous system effect, with mental confusion, drowsiness, and lassitude as the conspicuous features... it seems that the fluoride component is the causative factor... since work with these compounds is essential, it will be necessary to know in advance what mental effects may occur after exposure, if workmen are to be properly protected. This is important not only to protect a given individual, but also to prevent a confused workman from injuring others by improperly performing his duties." Ref Previously classified SECRET Manhattan Project Memo 29 April 1944, declassified and released from the National Archives.
I have NOT checked these references. Statements/writings by Bernays may be helpful.
Edit: Ref date and the following 1997 entry:
1997 A 1944 World War II Manhattan Project classified report on water fluoridation is found to be missing from the files of the University of Rochester Atomic Energy Project, the US National archives, and the Nuclear Repository at the University of Tennessee Knoxville, by researcher Clifford Honiker, Executive Director of the American Environmental Health Studies Project in Knoxville Tennessee, which provided key evidence in the public exposure and prosecution of US human radiation experiments.
L
Lauranimal
Guest
Quote from Woodsman:
Quote from LQB:
There is a great deal of reference material out there that clearly points to IG Farben as being the criminals here, but so far I have not been able to track down any clear evidence that they were fluoridating the water of the population for the purposes of causing the population to roll over and play docile. (though I feel certain that is what is being done to us now)
What I AM also finding a lot of info on, is how the same criminals who were prosecuted and convicted in the Neurenburge trials from IG Farben and their cartel, they all had powerful allies and were soon released from prison to continue their work in conjunction with multinational companies, many in the US. In fact, "they" are the one's who started the Codex Alimentarious, and the World Health Organization. (We are in a world of Shite my friends!!!)
It is moments like this, that the more I know..... the more I feel like it is hopeless. What can possibly be done? I just feel so helpless
Quote from LQB:
There is a great deal of reference material out there that clearly points to IG Farben as being the criminals here, but so far I have not been able to track down any clear evidence that they were fluoridating the water of the population for the purposes of causing the population to roll over and play docile. (though I feel certain that is what is being done to us now)
What I AM also finding a lot of info on, is how the same criminals who were prosecuted and convicted in the Neurenburge trials from IG Farben and their cartel, they all had powerful allies and were soon released from prison to continue their work in conjunction with multinational companies, many in the US. In fact, "they" are the one's who started the Codex Alimentarious, and the World Health Organization. (We are in a world of Shite my friends!!!)
It is moments like this, that the more I know..... the more I feel like it is hopeless. What can possibly be done? I just feel so helpless
Lauranimal said:It is moments like this, that the more I know..... the more I feel like it is hopeless. What can possibly be done? I just feel so helpless
I know the feelings ... overwhelming at times - anger, insult, fear, depression, hopelessness, paralyzed - but all temporary. What can be done? - The answer to myself: Continue to acquire knowledge with a vengeance (network, discuss, research, etc), then let your actions flow from that knowledge. FWIW, that's the answer I operate on and this forum (and Laura's work) has brought it into clearer focus (for me). [I also got a very good water filter].
L
Lauranimal
Guest
Thanks LQB,
I know you are right. And most of the time I am able to operate at that level. I am not easily daunted. A scrapper by nature; never known to give up. But wow! This last few years of educating myself have been both enlightening and devastating.
At the moment... I really, really want to take action. Want to make a difference. Want to stop the Codex Alimentarius. Want to stop the fluoridation of our water (and all the other crappy chemicals too) It does not feel like it is enough to spread information. Yes I keep gaining more and more knowledge and I share as much of it as I can, but I guess I have no idea what action I can take that will make any real difference.
I guess I'm just having one of those moments. Feeling impotent and throwing an internal tantrum. Shaking my fist at the "heavens" as if I am in a position to demand that the Universe will meet me on my own terms.
I'll get over it in a few days. Too much reading to do to stay stuck.
I know you are right. And most of the time I am able to operate at that level. I am not easily daunted. A scrapper by nature; never known to give up. But wow! This last few years of educating myself have been both enlightening and devastating.
At the moment... I really, really want to take action. Want to make a difference. Want to stop the Codex Alimentarius. Want to stop the fluoridation of our water (and all the other crappy chemicals too) It does not feel like it is enough to spread information. Yes I keep gaining more and more knowledge and I share as much of it as I can, but I guess I have no idea what action I can take that will make any real difference.
I guess I'm just having one of those moments. Feeling impotent and throwing an internal tantrum. Shaking my fist at the "heavens" as if I am in a position to demand that the Universe will meet me on my own terms.
I'll get over it in a few days. Too much reading to do to stay stuck.
abstract
Dagobah Resident
I have those too, lauranimal. I have days where I don't even want to be ON earth, 'cause i feel like it'll never change. I can tell you that i am truly disgusted many days by the ignorance of human beings.
But then I realize that it's not necessarily anybody's fault...people are raised to serve the system, that's something we have to deal with, i suppose. We should congratulate ourselves (if only very, very briefly) for
striving to see the world objectively, and put little attention towards those who choose to ignore reality. Just my opinion. :)
Lauranimal said:
Me too - I've hit some serious lows as my perceptions of reality (and myself) crumbled apart under the weight of the truth. At more than one of these points I spent some consideration of what universal laws I must have broken to be sentenced to a life on this planet. Sounds funny - but at those times - it wasn't. Eventually (sometimes it takes a while) I come back to and find that part of myself that is indestructible and really does know. But it is still a struggle for me to let that part express through the "fluff" of what I would like it to be.
I think Abstract is saying much the same thing - thanks Abstract.
