abovetopscret.com, Project SERPO, Project Camelot, Project Avalon

[vinny]

David Icke and ATS

"The SOTT forum works very much like a mirror"

In that, dont they all? Much like reality

You know, I'm not sure they do. A forum could easily degenerate into an ego-feeding frenzy or rants. Something we try desperately to defend against here, but as I'm sure you appreciate, this can sometime be a fine line to navigate.

Nice to see a forum where that is understood conciously though

I think Obi had in mind a particular meaning for a 'mirror' which is something like the following - that if like-minded individuals come together in a sincere spirit of sharing/seeking/working, then they can be reasonably assured to get responses back from each other that trigger a certain 'self examination' that would not happen with random/normal conversation. We can use the 'mirror' to highlight our own flaws of thinking or subconsciously denied 'holy-cows' or 'emotional programs' etc etc back to us, and have some reasonable expectation that we are being told something valuable, and that no 'defensiveness' is needed because there is no attack. hmm.. that was a bit wordy, but hopefully you see what I am getting at.

Because of this, people who come here with hidden agendas, or chips on their shoulder, or unresolved issues, or some blockage of understanding or whatever, very quickly run into hot water. There is no room for egos in such a 'mirroring environment', otherwise it simply doesn't work. Actually I think it is quite a different environment than most online (jeez, especially in the indy-news and conspiracy arena) or 'real-life' forums or discussion situations, and so takes a bit of getting used to, and so it can be hard for some to understand at first. Even so, generally it is apparent fairly quickly with what sort of 'spirit' someone enters into the discussion, but not always...

sorry, that was way off-thread, but I thought it was worth expanding on, especially as there are SO many new members around at the moment, in some of whom I have sensed some 'raised eyebrows', as they are not quite sure what to make of it
Interesting times on the forum, maybe that is the best time to arrive!?

 

[John White]

David Icke and ATS

Depends on how one looks at it sleepy vinny

After all, where does our perception of what someone else means or is trying to say or intends come from except from the reflected feedback of our own minds?

I've had the time to look over the links that Laura indicated earlier...I have many thoughts on it, which Im going to perculate for a while before trying to define something concrete out of them in the form of an opinion

However, I did find this post from over at Illusions, which is a reply I recieved from Sean, Ickes Webmaster, when i enquired at the time of the Icke forums closure as to what was going on: he gave me permission to post it up, so I cant see the harm in repeating the post here:

Wed Mar 29, 2006 12:24 am Post subject:

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Hello all, this is a message kindly recieved from Sean, webmaster at Bridge of Love

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Sean here - webmaster for davidicke.com. David has been so busy, it was probably bad timing of me to organise him going onto the ATS forum to answer some questions (at their own request)
I have emailed the owners of the site to explain that its probably for the best if we put the project on hold, and i do believe they have now suspended the forum.

......having read some of the threads myself, they do come across as quite welcoming and informed. However, as David has pointed out to me, he would rather not take part with ANY forums as he is extremely busy. This was probably the worst time of the year to even consider such a thing (my bad!) So for the time being, and certainly with such a demanding site as ATS, posting on forums is a no go area for David. With hindsight, its also probably a bad idea to start singling out websites (such as ATS) and giving them preferential treatment over others, thus creating "board wars" and all sorts. Best to stay neutral i reckon, and let opinions and topics be discussed freely with no bias either way.
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So I hope that information is helpful for the interested

This is the Illusions thread:

http://p4.forumforfree.com/ats-icke-forumupdated-news-vt848-laidbackchat.html?start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

Although you have to be registered to view, we have privacy for most of our sections to discourage lurkers

Also, in the interests of clarity, I should mention that I have also been one of the more prominant posters on the former Icke forum www.davidickeforum.com , not that quantity equates to quality (lol)!

and this is the thread that brought SOTT and the recent podcasts to my attention:

http://www.davidickeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29210&highlight=

 

[John White]

David Icke and ATS

Actually, slightly embarising is that I have reviewed that davidickeforum thread and i should ask for a little tolerance of my more ascerbic style over there: its a no-rules wild west forum and if one does'nt keep one centre over there one will be ripped to shreds... so my early comments are exactly that, first impressions, and Id like it known that theres nothing personal in it... if I wasnt genuinly curious, I wouldnt be spending time reading and posting here

 

[Obi]

David Icke and ATS

After all, where does our perception of what someone else means or is trying to say or intends come from except from the reflected feedback of our own minds?

Absolutely. That's why we should strive to keep our minds as objective as we humanly can, so that the distortion is as little as possible.

I've had the time to look over the links that Laura indicated earlier...I have many thoughts on it, which Im going to perculate for a while before trying to define something concrete out of them in the form of an opinion

Feel free to share it. This will surely be an interesting discussion.

However, I did find this post from over at Illusions, which is a reply I recieved from Sean, Ickes Webmaster, when i enquired at the time of the Icke forums closure as to what was going on: he gave me permission to post it up, so I cant see the harm in repeating the post here:

Thanks for this. Seems like the Icke admin was used to excuse David's absence. I was wondering why he chose not to attend. Maybe ATS forum was already burnt as the result of interactions with SOTT and Laura? Just a thought.

So I hope that information is helpful for the interested

Indeed, it sheds additional light on the issue.

Also, in the interests of clarity, I should mention that I have also been one of the more prominant posters on the former Icke forum www.davidickeforum.com , not that quantity equates to quality (lol)!

and this is the thread that brought SOTT and the recent podcasts to my attention:

http://www.davidickeforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=29210&highlight=

Thanks again. It is good to know how you managed to find yourself here. Hope you find it homey here

BTW, I have WHITE in my surname too

 

[Obi]

David Icke and ATS

BTW, I have WHITE in my surname too

Provided that this is indeed your real name

 

[John White]

David Icke and ATS

Crazy, mad, reckless, couragous etc as I am, I am always on the net as myself

You will also find me at www.nineeleven.co.uk (which probably explains my original interest; we are a tight well focused group over there, and I'd certainly recommend the campaign to anyone UK based)

 

[ark]

David Icke and ATS

Crazy, mad, reckless, couragous etc as I am, I am always on the net as myself

You will also find me at www.nineeleven.co.uk

I tried to find you googling "john white" and nineleven

But I have found only:

"These terms only appear in links pointing to this page: am john white"

Can you be more precise how to "find you"?

 

[vinny]

David Icke and ATS

he is a moderator on the forum http://www.illusionsforum.com/
but I can't see him on http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/

 

[John White]

David Icke and ATS

Just looking in for a moment:

http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/search.php

type my name in lads: works for me

 

[Guest]

David Icke and ATS

It appears to me that Icke gets slated for bringing up the reptile stuff thus getting everything in the alternative field brought down with him. However I notice posts such as the Cs(Channellers I presume) warned me that such and such. Do people not realise that for ordinary folk, this is just as laughable as the reptile agenda. Also from what I see, Icke is pointing to people like Arizona Wilder and the African chap, and saying he believes them. He is not the original source. The argument that he has given all the alternative field because of the outlandish nature of the reptile stuff...We ll if he happens to believe it to be true, he should have the courage of his convictions and say it, and not be afraid of the consequences.

 

[henry]

David Icke and ATS

We ll if he happens to believe it to be true, he should have the courage of his convictions and say it, and not be afraid of the consequences.

Hi,

The trouble with jumping in at the end of a discussion is that you haven't been around to see how it develops, both on this thread and on other threads.

The discussions here have to do with setting aside "belief" to attempt to arrive at an understanding of reality based on data and facts. Holding onto "beliefs" pulls one ever deeper into a sujective view of the world. Everything around us works in this direction. People have "opinions" and "beliefs" and they hold to them, they identify with them. They are blinded to reality.

Here we are working to get rid of our beliefs and opinions. We are interested in reality, not our limited and deformed impressions of it.

 

[Guest]

David Icke and ATS

We ll if he happens to believe it to be true, he should have the courage of his convictions and say it, and not be afraid of the consequences.

Hi,

The trouble with jumping in at the end of a discussion is that you haven't been around to see how it develops, both on this thread and on other threads.

The discussions here have to do with setting aside "belief" to attempt to arrive at an understanding of reality based on data and facts. Holding onto "beliefs" pulls one ever deeper into a sujective view of the world. Everything around us works in this direction. People have "opinions" and "beliefs" and they hold to them, they identify with them. They are blinded to reality.

Here we are working to get rid of our beliefs and opinions. We are interested in reality, not our limited and deformed impressions of it.

Agreed when I get a fair bit of free time I'll try to brush up on the Icke pros and cons. Regarding belief and reality though separating the two is an extememly tricky business. I can say Beethoven is a great human liberator of immense genius. Someone asks me to prove this, surely it is simply a matter of personal opinion and so on. Well I think I can make some arguments that may or may not be elegant, but are ultimately pretty pointless. I am left with my subjective experience, and though I do think great art is more than a matter of opinion, any attempt to move this into the world of reality and fact is a sterile waste of time. I must be prepared to trust in the hegemony of my own self and its intuitions.
Trusting in my impressions of reality whilst endeavouring to educate myself properly of course. I tend to be pretty slow and rather uninterested in pretending to believe something when I don't feel the truth of something strongly within though which I presume you would agree with. So I'm open to Icke being right, but don't have any especial leaning one way or the other yet. Not as especially belief oriented person anyway as regards ultimate reality and all that. As in, ideally I experience it as consciousness rather than...well you know the kind of Krishnamurti direction I'm coming from presumably.

 

[Guest]

David Icke and ATS

Ok have gone thru this tread and admit to seeing not much to suggest Icke is a baddie. He's not locked up, therefore he must be one of them isn't the most foolproof of arguments. Obviously plenty could be argued to counter that. For example, the authorities most certainly wouldn't want the publicity of trying to get Icke arrested. If he's speaking the truth, they most certainly wouldn't want an extremely high profile court case of royalty trying to get him locked up for slander, and some very dirty linen getting aired.

 

[Guest]

David Icke and ATS

Though I htink I'm probably being too quick to air opinions rather than delving deep enough into the whole matter first. Apologies.

 

[Guest]

My Experience with Abovetopsecret.com

I wonder if the dark forces, forgive my lack of knowledge of what the various abbreviations used mean tht I could otherwise be using, are granted a tad too much omniscience or infallibility. That something is on large release may mean that such and such bodies are not killing it off, but it doesn't mean it is therefore not having a good impact. If we go down that route of logic we can end up believing Van Gogh is in the service of ignorance else why would he be so well known. Or as I've noticed elsewhere on the net, that The Beatles were a creation of the Tavistock Institute and blah blah blah.... Well maybe the media didn't forseee the nature of the beast they were creating, which went on to do enormous good for consciousness with works like Tomorrow Never Knows, something which I think could be argued is a key moment in the broadening of our enlightenment....a kind of splitting of the atom in art and by extension consciousness.
We can end up in the situation that anything that becomes well known must be dismissed as working against us.
Sorry forgot why I was respnding initially in this thread. Oh yeah hve to say in my very brief time at ATS I found the number of Freemasons and even Aleister Crowley apologisers there kind of odd. And instinctively off-putting.