Alex Jones - COINTELPRO? Fascist Tool?

[Laura]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

I think it's a little brazen to think that we somehow know better than any others as to who is a shill and who isn't a shill. Like I said, I do have a problem with the way that some of these guys cover some issues, but to say that they are outright shills is just a bit far-fetched in my opinion.

Well, wait until you listen to this weekend's podcast; if you've got two neurons firing, I think you'll get it. Track the links, see what the "pals" of people like Alex Jones and Rense are doing, their "good buddies" behind the scenes, how they send them out to attack and defame other people so that they can keep their hands clean.

And if you don't think that this is the way things work, what planet were you born on? Can you dress yourself without assistance?

Finally, if Jones and Rense are NOT Neocon sponsored "controlled opposition shills" then they are certainly filling the role quite well on their own initiative.

Coincidence?

We think not.

 

[CyberChrist]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

I don't think what he did at the secret meeting was all that great. It's going to sound good to a lot of people, but for me it wasn't all that great. He didn't do anything for me, or anyone else who is at all aware of the true nature of reality.

Well, it was impromptu, but he stood there with a bullhorn and called them evil to their faces. Great or not, I don't see a lot of other people around with the balls to do something like that.

Why not? Shouldn't you be questioning everything that enters into your awareness? Perhaps this is the problem.

Yes I should. So why can't I question the nature of a poll and its results?

So is it your belief that AJ seeks to influence our perception? I'd say he is guilty.

We agree, but probably not for the reasons that you might think. I don't think Alex Jones is an evil person, so while I do agree that he is trying to influence perceptions, I don't think it's something that is necessarily aimed at people like us who already know much about what he is talking about.

You say that like all of a sudden, someone just comes along and says AJ is a shill. I doubt that was a sudden judgement. So your logic does not fit. There's much more to it than one person/group disagreeing with another.

It's the first time I have seen this poll so yes, to me, to MY PERCEPTION, this is "all of the sudden". but even so, that's why I said "let's say in two years". I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on that.

 

[CyberChrist]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

I think it's a little brazen to think that we somehow know better than any others as to who is a shill and who isn't a shill. Like I said, I do have a problem with the way that some of these guys cover some issues, but to say that they are outright shills is just a bit far-fetched in my opinion.

Well, wait until you listen to this weekend's podcast; if you've got two neurons firing, I think you'll get it. Track the links, see what the "pals" of people like Alex Jones and Rense are doing, their "good buddies" behind the scenes, how they send them out to attack and defame other people so that they can keep their hands clean.

And if you don't think that this is the way things work, what planet were you born on? Can you dress yourself without assistance?

Finally, if Jones and Rense are NOT Neocon sponsored "controlled opposition shills" then they are certainly filling the role quite well on their own initiative.

Coincidence?

We think not.

I can't wait to hear the podcast then. It's certainly a side of things that doesn't get explored much.

 

[CyberChrist]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

The next big terror attack in the U.S. could take place on June 6th,
2006. Where? At the Sears Tower in Chicago which has a zip code of
60606;

Sears Tower Zip Code = 60606 --> 6+0+6+0+6 --> 6+6+6 --> 666

Based on the theme of "train bombings" in Madrid and London, this theme
points to the city of Chicago which is a major railroad hub and the
location of the Sears Tower.

I checked, June 6 is apparently over, and I did not hear about Sears Tower in Chicago being damaged ;)

Ark, I bolded the word "could" in your post to highlight what I felt the spirit of the article was. It wasn't prophecy as much as it was an observation of the obsession with numerology that some of the PTB seem to have. So when the article was published in July 2005, I took it to be an educated guess.

It's certainly not the first time that anyone has been wrong about future dates and events.

 

[Guest]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

Oops! I guess others have answered already. Oh well, I'll post this anyway.

--------

I think it's a little brazen to think that we somehow know better than any others as to who is a shill and who isn't a shill. Like I said, I do have a problem with the way that some of these guys cover some issues, but to say that they are outright shills is just a bit far-fetched in my opinion.

Well then, let me rephrase the nomenclature, which I borrowed from the thread title. I've been reading Jones for a few years, and was stricken with the sense that all he does is spread fear. Sure some events are disclosed, but this is not information. It's high drama. This is not just a "mistaken attitude" of Jones, but a calculated and consistent strategy. It makes money for the guy.

From what I know, it's the powers that be that control the money, and they kind of make sure that any real threats to them stay poor. Jones seems to be thriving in the mainstream, dramatized run ins with authority notwithstanding.

So let me tone down and just say, Jones is just a showman addressing people's need for truth as an open market to make his mark. What I was saying about shills is that they are very tricky, and we need to look a bit beneath the obvious, which is not what I see is going on in people that protest challenging him.

See, although these challenges are passionate they are still challenges backed with research. From what I see from the series of threads here:

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/forum/search.php?search_id=1863405238

Jone's is a bit suspect, and warrants a deeper examination before we go off and erect a monument to the guy. Again, what good is a shill if they are obvious to everyone? And I have to note, many people are so drawn in by this dramatic presentation of righteousness indicative of Jones, that they forget that questioning often needs to be done in a relentless manner, especially when the one questioned seems to have many resources at his disposal.

If shills are nothing more than carbon copies of the mainstream media, then what is their point in the first place?

How is Alex Jones a carbon-copy of the mainstream media? When is the last time that you saw a CBS news anchor outside of a secret convention with a bullhorn and calling the attendees 'evil"?

Perhaps my phrasing was inadequate. My point was the opposite: a shill is NOT a carbon-copy of the mainstream media. A shill will look like the staunchest opponent of the status quo, and it will serve them to constantly drive that image home to audiences. Blasting on a bullhorn is, therefore, a call to question the man's motives, and not proof of his alleged convictions.

I have challenged Alex Jones on his own show many times on the air and I still have a problem with a lot of what he says. But it never crossed my mind that he is some kind of secret government plant or anything of the sort.

I think this "secret government plant" thing has a lot of cloak and dagger baggage to it. The man may just be making some money on the side, signing some contracts guaranteeing fame and fortune (which seems to be increasing for him), and in exchange is given access to certain things provided his conclusions meet the requirements of those who give access.

To him it may just be business as usual. Hey, look at all the preachers with bullhorns fooling people into thinking they are "men of god". Some may be more ambitious then others, but is seems business as usual is the bottom line there as well.

I just think it's time people considered going beyond the Jones messages of fear mongering and focusing attention where the least harm can be done to the powers that be.

I don't think anyone said that they can't be challenged. But just as they can be challenged, so can this poll, don't you think? Isn't that part of the "democratic and fundamental human RIGHT to challenge any and all persons and institutions that seek to influence our perception of events"??

I am all for challenging the poll. I was wondering about it myself, and it seems Lisa provided some answers to the challenge posed by someone else. The poll targeted people accessing her site, so their viewpoints may be aligned with hers. The people accessing her site are not few, however, although the audience of Jones is probably much larger, so a different poll might give different results.

The fact is that there are people who seem to have come to their own conclusions about this after reading different views on the matter. My concern is that those who support the "showmen of the truth movement" are not looking deeper. Even if the concept of "shill" is too radical (just as the concept of "conspiracy" is for the mainstream), it would not be the first time that the lust for fame and fortune overrode the desire for truth.

So let's say that someone does rise up and challenge these people and while they may disagree on presentation, they agree on some key fundamental issues, such as the farce of the war on terror. Let's say that they gain an audience. Let's say that in two years, they run afoul of others on the Internet and make it onto one of these polls. Then what? Are they suddenly "shills"?

All those claiming to be against the government (of both parties) agree on some issues. If they didn't they would not be able to claim the are on the "quest for truth". The point is that these issues are rehashed again and again, and the result in people is still: "so what?". The reason is that the crux of what is presented is that anyone who says anything will be snuffed out by secret societies and omnipotent forces of darkness.

I read one interview with a fireman in the thick of it at 9-11, who said he just doesn't want to think about government involvement because then he would be forced to do something about it, and that's just hopless. So it is not the "key fundamental issues" that will suddenly liberate the masses, but a change in attitude from feeling helpless to looking toward solutions to do something about the situation.

I think Jones is reinforcing this sense of powerlessness, even as he dramatically claims to be pushing people to fight. Yeah, that works, tell people to fight in ways sure to get them killed. Make them feel cornered, that the detention camps are on their way, instead of looking for real weaknesses in the system. People will either act rashly to that kind of "inspiration" or just shut down in despair.

Nothing is more effective than fragments of truth used for the ends of falshood.

So the way you present things seems an oversimplification to me. There are strategies of psychological warfare used by the powers that be that are very subtle, and people are not aware of them. Those who are shills do not want you to be aware of them, although they might point to them fleetingly to create more feelings of being overwhelmend, to condition the audience that resistance is futile.

The point is that only a grass roots movement can work, and there has been no attempt to unite people by teaching them how the powers that be truly operate (in every moment of their lives), so they can observe it for themselves and so they can shift their attitude from one of complacent resignation (no matter what "events" are presented to the) to one of creatively seeking to deal with the control right at their front door by first learning to see it as it is, not as it is mythically bloated by the showmen of despair.

Then people can discuss the ways they are controlled on terms they can handle, and with that attitude they can unite with courage founded on their own experience rather than stories of the Bilderberger Satanic boogyman. After all, those in power are people afraid of the masses, and knowing that the masses must be kept in a state of disorientation. That is what I think Jones is assisting them in, probably because it is profitable (whether he is ideologicall aligned with the powers that be or not).

 

[CyberChrist]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

There are lots of articles on our website about Alex Jones.
http://www.wingtv.net
The Hall of Shame link is at the bottom center of our homepage.
Pack a lunch.
Oh, and remember: Alex Jones says it's HIS road. We even have the audio clip of him saying this right after he hung up on me one day during his broadcast.. We played it on our show, so everyone could hear Alex screaming like a lunatic about how this is "his road!!!"
I say, it's all of our road.
We're all on this road together.
There are a lot of bad guys on this road.

Lisa

Thanks Lisa. I will be checking them out.

 

[Guest]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

Eso, that link is empty

Thanks. I re-linked. I think it is alright now.

 

[ark]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

It wasn't prophecy as much as it was an observation of the obsession with numerology that some of the PTB seem to have.

There was nothing about observation there. He was not distancing himself from numerology. He was encouraging it. Right?

 

[CyberChrist]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

Thanks EsoQuest. Your points are much clearer to me now and I think we agree more than we disagree on Alex Jones. I do think that a lot of what he does is indeed showmanship and he is over-the-top in many cases. And yes, the whole idea of a "government plant" does have a lot of baggage to it. I think of someone being employed by a 3-letter agency on the side and I just don't see Jones as being that kind of person.

That being said, he does pander to a certain audience, and I do believe that while many Liberals do find a lot that they agree with Alex on, his real target audience is what I call the "quiet Conservative". It's why his bullhorning and on-air rage draws so much of an audience and his "Christian" attitude.

 

[j0da]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

In this moment I'd like to share my observation which concerns not only this topic. Recent influx of people asking "hey, why are ye bitchin so much about Alex Jones" gets us involved in endless explanations of things which have been already explained to the core in many places in this forum. Every individual really willing to find information regarding this and related subjects is absolutely able of using search option and finding answers for himself. But many choose not to do so, they instead hurry along to post reply button and ask the same questions over and over again. While there are topics which cover extremely complex ideas and it's perfectly understandable that someone may need further elaborations, sections covering counter-intelligence activity aren't THAT difficult to understand.

Recent posts of few new members DO NOT add any new information, DO NOT provide new facts, DO NOT expand our understanding - to the contrary, those posts plainly indicate that their authors didn't even bother to familiarize themselves with information regarding topic they are posting in. The only effect of those posts is TRAFFIC. Certain pattern emerges, where new members make a couple of neutral posts in less critical areas and then proceed DIRECTLY to BIG topics (which we know create a lot of discomfort among PTB) merrilly throwing about their "whys" and innuendos.

Imho, we are witnessing the troll siege.

 

[Wrayer]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

You forgot the main element of his work, Wrayer.
FEAR!!!!!!!!!

What is so positive about fearmongering?
What is positive about exploiting this fear and manipulating public paranoia in order to keep the people doing nothing constructive or meaningful?
How is what alex Jones does any different than what Big Brother and the mainstream media does?
All push FEAR.
Fear silences and paralyzes.
Is this a positive thing?
And since the behavior has been done in a consistent, ongoing manner for over a decade now, one can't really call it "accidental".
This is not "inadvertant" behavior we're talking about.
It is deliberate and strategic.
Psychic driving.

Lisa Guliani

I don't know, that seems awfully dismissive.

I think I might be more inclined to agree with you if I had an understanding that he is lying more than telling the truth. As far as I can tell, he's just telling everybody what's happening (from his own perspective) and sounding the alarm. Isn't it appropriate to pull the fire alarm if the building is burning? Doesn't that result in a positive, if scary, action of running the hell away from the fire?

In any case, I'm going to take a break from commenting here and take j0da's advice and do some reading using the search function.

j0da - does this indicate that a central "why we don't really like Alex Jones" document should be created?

 

[Guest]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

So the article takes a guess and says that something could happen on 6-6-06.

What's funny about the whole 6-6-6 thing is that preserved copies of the Book of Revelation's found in Nag Hammadi (or was it Syria?) show that the "number of the beast" is really 616. And then to turn this into a date you would have to choose whether to use the European dating method (day before month) or the American one (month before day), and if the 1 refers to January or October.

Again, there is a lot of superstitious hype going on here, and that is never a good sign. Especially when coming from someone claiming to be an objective journalist.

 

[CyberChrist]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

Recent posts of few new members DO NOT add any new information, DO NOT provide new facts, DO NOT expand our understanding - to the contrary, those posts plainly indicate that their authors didn't even bother to familiarize themselves with information regarding topic they are posting in. The only effect of those posts is TRAFFIC. Certain pattern emerges, where new members make a couple of neutral posts in less critical areas and then proceed DIRECTLY to BIG topics (which we know create a lot of discomfort among PTB) merrilly throwing about their "whys" and innuendos.

Imho, we are witnessing the troll siege.

Sorry j0da, but since I am a new member here, I assume that this post is addressing me as well. I have not searched the forums because I am replying to an ongoing discussion, not starting new threads. I disagree that there are no new facts being posted nor that understanding is not being expanding. I am questioning some of the assumptions because it is in my nature to do so. Whether it's my 5th post or 500th post, I am seeking to clarify what I am reading.

I am sorry that you think that the new members are not good additions. But I don't think that high post counts is necessarily a moral high ground either.

As for my background, in case you were wondering, I came here because I was on a message board that discussed the C's for nearly 2 years before this forum was available. I have read Laura's books and I found them to be very interesting, but I did not come here to "add to the noise" as some may say. I am here to learn and to discuss. I am sorry that you just view the posts as "traffic".

 

[Lisa Guliani]

Viewer's Poll: Alex Jones Voted # 1 Shill

Well, then you don't pay that much attention to what alex has to say on his shows, other than his take on illegal immigration, is that it?
I suggest you read up on Mr. Alex Jones.
I'd say that Jones's actions speak for themselves once you remove the rose-colored groupie glasses.
Jones (along with his compulsive liar buddy, Jeff Rense) has labeled me and my partner cointelpro, yet refuses to substantiate that assertion.
Since these comments have been made on his broadcasts, then I believe this to be a public matter.
He should certainly back up his statements if they are indeed true, shouldn't he?
Instead, he simply poisons the already contaminated waters with even MORE lies.
Incidentally, we had a Minuteman on our show today and he infoms us that the Minuteman Project has been coopted by Washington Beltway Neocons.
The Diener Consultant Group which has close ties to William Kristol, bill Bennett, the Defense Policy Board, and so on.
Has Alex Jones mentioned this at all?
It is most disturbing news.
It doesn't appear that the rank and file Minuteman is even aware of this.
So...the government can coopt the Minuteman Project and now essentially controls that group, yet it cannot infiltrate and coopt the alternative media?
Is this what you seem to be saying?
If so, yikes.

Lisa G.

 

[CyberChrist]

Alex Jones: COINTELPRO

So the article takes a guess and says that something could happen on 6-6-06.

What's funny about the whole 6-6-6 thing is that preserved copies of the Book of Revelation's found in Nag Hammadi (or was it Syria?) show that the "number of the beast" is really 616. And then to turn this into a date you would have to choose whether to use the European dating method (day before month) or the American one (month before day), and if the 1 refers to January or October.

Again, there is a lot of superstitious hype going on here, and that is never a good sign. Especially when coming from someone claiming to be an objective journalist.

Indeed. And yet nothing happened on 6-1-6. or 6-16-06. And chances are that nothing will happen on any other date that is extrapolated from that number.

I studied prophecies for YEARS and all I can tell you is that at the end, prophecy is little more than religious propaganda. I do believe there are some true prophecies, but they are very rare and they read more as warnings than an imminent edict of events to come. I believe that the future is fluid and can be changed, so I don't believe in pre-set dates of destruction.

At least not anymore.