Heimdallr said:
Seriously. Jones, considering the legalistic nitpicking and the subtle dig about anart being 'imprecise', I'm wondering if it isn't actually you who seems to have an issue here. What's the deal?
Considering his last post, I hope he won't be picking up any stones to throw on that topic anytime soon. ;)
Foxx said:
I point this out because you seem a little overly optimistic to me that he can do the right thing, when his track record for doing so hasn't been very good for a while--and, of course, such wishful thinking for people to do the right thing who haven't demonstrated much of an interest in doing so can be very dangerous.
Foxx, I understand completely what you mean when you say it could be dangerous to "wishful think" someone will "do the right thing". The context is important and has to be kept in scope in this case. For example, I would never think the same thing or even say the same thing to someone, if they were in an abusive relationship. The reason being is that the consequences would be much more dire.
In this case, it is about Alex facing something he just will not face. A barrier that he knows is there, which has been shown to him by many people in the network who were in that exact spot before and have gone beyond it, and yet, he won't or can't get over it. The latter part, the "can't" is an unknown, and is where the hope lies.
Nobody's holding their breath on this. It's up to him to carry his own load. When he grows up and can,
at the very least do this, than maybe he can think about helping others. It's what Laura and many others in the network have tried to point out.
In essence, he's trying to take a short cut by trying to help out or "help others" by his efforts in order to make "good", i.e. "I helped put out the message, I did good, I'm OK!"
It doesn't work that way: his short cut is a dead end. If anything, people here are trying to show him that he will lose months/years only to delay the inevitable task that is in front of him. It would be a huge disservice to him to string him along and let him think he did good.
Anart already nailed it in her post:
anart said:
I think it's really important to consider the idea that the vast, vast majority of human beings truly isn't capable of "breaking this cycle" as you put it because at the end of the day, the vast majority does not want to. Their lives are not so miserable, after all. They've not tired of the banquet of life and the myriad of distractions, pursuits and punishments. So, to advise what you've advised is completely lost on such people.
In fact, I'd say that anyone you have to say such things to wouldn't get it anyway because those who are ready for something other than mechanical life are so fed up, so finished, so bankrupted by "normal" life that nothing can stop them from forging another path. They are seeking so desperately for the fresh air of life that nothing can stop them, not even failure after failure until they find the truth.
So, I know there is a tendency to want to lay out a textbook description of how it "should work" but it's usually helpful to first consider the individual and whether or not they are where one must be to even begin.
I am sad for Fifth Way, in the way that I am sad for the vast majority of humanity, because I know that none of this is theoretical and that he has a very rough road ahead of him until he comes to this understanding on his own and finally tires of all the illusion, all the roles he plays and the mess of it all - all that is 3D life. I doubt he'll get there in this lifetime, but I've been wrong before, and he has almost an entire species to share that experience with. Which, come to think of it, ultimately makes me sad for all of us since there are so few human beings ready to be and do something other than what they've always been and always done. That's the mechanical nature of "man" and why Gurdjieff said that "man" has not changed at all in thousands of years - and I suppose that is why the cosmos must clean house.
I've bolded that part up there because it is so very important. It's also an aspect that applies to me very much, and I cannot say enough how much empathy and will, and caring this network has for people who keep trying.
You never, NEVER see it this way when you're underneath the thumb that everybody else is telling you is pressing you down.
Your perspective changes in unforeseen ways when you let the fire burn down the chair you're sitting on, and you finally decide to stop putting out the fire (because you were afraid). Until your ass hits the ground in the smoldering remains, you can't pick yourself up with a new understanding and perspective.
And alas, the discovery of a couple more forms of mechanical thinking for me to reflect upon and Work on. 
