Thank you for this information Psyche.
This was really helpful, and we now have a clearer perspective of the effects of using ALA, NAC or detoxifying heavy metals prior to treating candida.
After reading the Ultra Mind solution and now your post, I was just thinking that it seems that it really comes down to making sure the gut is working properly before attempting to "fix" anything else... Well, from this perspective perhaps we would need to check the digestive system first.
Thanks Psychie, This all makes sense to me. About 8 years ago, when I had all my mercury fillings removed and was detoxing from heavy metals, the nutritional doc I was working with first had me clear up a pretty severe systemic case of candidiasis. (it took a looooong time). She then had me on a combination of ALA and L-cystine (the oxidized form), and I had to get back on the anti-candida regemin half-way through. I also had to avoid B-vitamins and take extra minerals.
I was just thinking that it seems that it really comes down to making sure the gut is working properly before attempting to "fix" anything else... Well, from this perspective perhaps we would need to check the digestive system first.
I second that, a healthy gut is crucial. Reduction of toxic exposure, correcting nutritional deficiencies, eliminating troublesome foods for our bodies, healing our guts and proper sleep can make anyone feel a ton better.
For people in Europe you can now get Alpha Lipoic Acid at _www.alldayvitamins.com I just got mine at a fraction of what I was paying because of the shipping costs from the states
Welcome to the forum. :) We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, and how they found their way here. Have a read through that section to get an idea of how others have done it. Thanks.
Here is something else to think about with regard to alpha-lipoic acid:
Effect of Alpha-Lipoic Acid on Memory, Oxidation, and Lifespan in SAMP8 Mice
_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22785389
The supplement reduced lifespan, in the experiment.
Abstract
Oxidative damage is associated with neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's disease (AD). The antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid has been found to improve memory in mouse models of AD. Here, we administered alpha-lipoic acid daily to SAMP8 mice starting at 11 months of age and continuing until death. We found that treatment with alpha-lipoic acid decreased survival from 34 weeks in those receiving vehicle to 20 weeks. A subset of 18 month old mice given alpha-lipoic acid for two weeks and then tested in an object-place recognition paradigm had improved memory. A second subset of 18 month old mice given alpha-lipoic acid for two weeks and tested in the Barnes maze had improved learning. After testing, the mice were sacrificed and indices of oxidative damage were measured in the brain tissue. The mice that received alpha-lipoic acid had significantly increased glutathione and decreased glutathione peroxidase and malondialdehyde indicating reversal of oxidative stress. These results indicate that alpha-lipoic acid improves memory and reverses indices of oxidative stress in extremely old SAMP8 mice, but decreases lifespan. These findings are similar to studies using other types of antioxidants.
I was able to read the entire report and, while the experiment was performed on mice, it does increase my concern about taking supplements without being able to accurately measure results. Experiments like this might provide the only warning available.
The dose was 100mg/kg/day. I weigh 90kg, and that would be 9,000 mg/day at that dose, if I have calculated that right. Since a normal human dose is more like 600mg/day, it sounds like the mice receive an awful lot of the supplement. That could either serve to bring out an effect that might otherwise remain hidden, or it might cause something that wouldn't happen at lower doses.
Note the last sentence above, which I bolded. The issue potentially exists with other supplements as well.
Here is something else to think about with regard to alpha-lipoic acid:
Effect of Alpha-Lipoic Acid on Memory, Oxidation, and Lifespan in SAMP8 Mice
_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22785389
The supplement reduced lifespan, in the experiment.
Abstract
Oxidative damage is associated with neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's disease (AD). The antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid has been found to improve memory in mouse models of AD. Here, we administered alpha-lipoic acid daily to SAMP8 mice starting at 11 months of age and continuing until death. We found that treatment with alpha-lipoic acid decreased survival from 34 weeks in those receiving vehicle to 20 weeks. A subset of 18 month old mice given alpha-lipoic acid for two weeks and then tested in an object-place recognition paradigm had improved memory. A second subset of 18 month old mice given alpha-lipoic acid for two weeks and tested in the Barnes maze had improved learning. After testing, the mice were sacrificed and indices of oxidative damage were measured in the brain tissue. The mice that received alpha-lipoic acid had significantly increased glutathione and decreased glutathione peroxidase and malondialdehyde indicating reversal of oxidative stress. These results indicate that alpha-lipoic acid improves memory and reverses indices of oxidative stress in extremely old SAMP8 mice, but decreases lifespan. These findings are similar to studies using other types of antioxidants.
I was able to read the entire report and, while the experiment was performed on mice, it does increase my concern about taking supplements without being able to accurately measure results. Experiments like this might provide the only warning available.
The dose was 100mg/kg/day. I weigh 90kg, and that would be 9,000 mg/day at that dose, if I have calculated that right. Since a normal human dose is more like 600mg/day, it sounds like the mice receive an awful lot of the supplement. That could either serve to bring out an effect that might otherwise remain hidden, or it might cause something that wouldn't happen at lower doses.
Note the last sentence above, which I bolded. The issue potentially exists with other supplements as well.
I've recently got a hold of some ALA. What you've written suggests that at lower dosages the same effect isn't recorded, that is there's a less significant decrease to lifespan [although that's not easy to accurately measure].
Is such a correlation pointed to in the full report?
Here is something else to think about with regard to alpha-lipoic acid:
Effect of Alpha-Lipoic Acid on Memory, Oxidation, and Lifespan in SAMP8 Mice
_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22785389
The supplement reduced lifespan, in the experiment.
Abstract
Oxidative damage is associated with neurodegenerative disorders such as Alzheimer's disease (AD). The antioxidant alpha-lipoic acid has been found to improve memory in mouse models of AD. Here, we administered alpha-lipoic acid daily to SAMP8 mice starting at 11 months of age and continuing until death. We found that treatment with alpha-lipoic acid decreased survival from 34 weeks in those receiving vehicle to 20 weeks. A subset of 18 month old mice given alpha-lipoic acid for two weeks and then tested in an object-place recognition paradigm had improved memory. A second subset of 18 month old mice given alpha-lipoic acid for two weeks and tested in the Barnes maze had improved learning. After testing, the mice were sacrificed and indices of oxidative damage were measured in the brain tissue. The mice that received alpha-lipoic acid had significantly increased glutathione and decreased glutathione peroxidase and malondialdehyde indicating reversal of oxidative stress. These results indicate that alpha-lipoic acid improves memory and reverses indices of oxidative stress in extremely old SAMP8 mice, but decreases lifespan. These findings are similar to studies using other types of antioxidants.
I was able to read the entire report and, while the experiment was performed on mice, it does increase my concern about taking supplements without being able to accurately measure results. Experiments like this might provide the only warning available.
The dose was 100mg/kg/day. I weigh 90kg, and that would be 9,000 mg/day at that dose, if I have calculated that right. Since a normal human dose is more like 600mg/day, it sounds like the mice receive an awful lot of the supplement. That could either serve to bring out an effect that might otherwise remain hidden, or it might cause something that wouldn't happen at lower doses.
Note the last sentence above, which I bolded. The issue potentially exists with other supplements as well.
I've recently got a hold of some ALA. What you've written suggests that at lower dosages the same effect isn't recorded, that is there's a less significant decrease to lifespan [although that's not easy to accurately measure].
Is such a correlation pointed to in the full report?
I will have to think about this -- it has been a while. I do seem to recall that ALA has received (human) clinical trials as well, and that lower doses worked about as well as 600mg/day. The other concern that I keep encountering in the alternative health world is that taking these supplements may "mobilize" toxic substances without providing a pathway out of the body, and may therefore make things worse instead of better. I don't know if there is any truth to this, or if it is just something that is being repeated from one person to the next.
I recently switched to R-lipoic acid after having repeated problems with alpha lipoic acid upsetting my stomach. I haven't had any problems with it so far.
I came across an interview to Dr. Burt Berkson today and thought his work is brilliant. So I thought I'd revive this thread with some of what I've heard and what I could find elsewhere doing a fast search.
I can imagine that his work isn't new to the ones who have read the book Laura was recommending a long time ago at the beginning of this thread. And I can see that there is already some information posted here, so I don't want to repeat what is there already. So, I just want to say that listening to what he's been doing and the results he gets treating very serious liver diseases was inspiring and motivating.
He (and others who follow his work) were interviewed by Johnathan Landsman on his "Fatty Liver Docu-class", and report complete reversal of liver disease in patients who were literally on a waiting line for liver transplant, or were so ill that were told there was no other option than to have some pain relievers and prepare to die. He also tells of his experience with the FDA, because he worked for them until they fired him for finding cures to serious conditions, which would of course affect pharmaceuticals. He also shares how he has been called to attend conferences at the National Cancer Institute in the US because he had been having great results for cancer treatment as well, and they even published a journal about it because his results are quite impressive, yet, most doctors are reluctant to use this with their own patients. I've found a publication here:
Dr. Berkson presented on his experience treating patients with alpha-lipoic acid (ALA) plus low-dose naltrexone (LDN) for various cancers and autoimmune diseases. The group also heard from Dr. Renee N. Donahue, Research Fellow in the Laboratory of Tumor Immunology and Biology at the NCI Center for Cancer Research, about her pre-clinical research on the efficacy and proposed mechanism of action of LDN for the treatment of cancer.
[...]
Dr. Berkson presented seven case reports on patients with advanced cancers (pancreatic and lymphomas) that he had treated over the past 10 years with a combination of ALA (intravenously and orally) and LDN (orally), along with diet, vitamins, and lifestyle changes. Earlier in his medical career, Dr. Berkson reported success using ALA to repair liver damage in patients from mushroom poisoning or chronic infections with hepatitis C virus. He also cited a number of research articles in European medical journals showing ALA’s beneficial effects on cancer.
Dr. Berkson learned about the use of LDN for treating cancer from a patient with advanced prostate cancer. He reported to Dr. Berkson after the successful therapy with LDN of both the patient’s cancer and rheumatoid arthritis (RA). Subsequently, Dr. Berkson offered LDN to his patients with RA and other autoimmune diseases. “Within about a month, most of the patients were off all drugs and feeling completely normal on just LDN, at $15 a month,” he recalled. [...]
Now, that's super interesting! In the interview, he said he uses high doses of IV Vitamin C, which is also discussed in this thread (where some people also mentioned a bit about ALA), in the morning, and then IV Lipoic Acid in the afternoon, and this helps not only regenerate the body but also recycle some of that morning Vitamin C to make it more effective. And yes, he also uses low-dose naltrexone (which is a prescription drug about which I don't know much at the moment, but has been mentioned a few times in the autoimmune conditions and infections thread).
As usual, I still have to read more and look for more references, but I thought I'd bring it up for those who have never heard of this doctor or maybe for those who may be interested in looking at his work on cancer/liver disease/autoimmune disease treatment. As others have posted here, there may be some things to consider when taking ALA (such as Candida overgrowth issues), yet, it seems to be a pretty basic substance that can help the body A LOT, and the good news is that it's very good when taken orally when it isn't such a serious condition. They do mention that the quality of the product is very important regarding ALA. They didn't mention a particular brand but said that what works best for them ALA manufactured in Germany or Italy. And they also said that it is important to take B vitamins when taking ALA and that it can have an impact on blood sugar, so diabetics may need to be a little extra careful with it. But overall, it seems rather safe.
Here's one of the stories he usually tells:
I had been working with intravenous alpha lipoic acid (IV ALA) for many years; we did the first human clinical studies at the United States’ National Institutes of Health back in the 1970’s. I always thought that would be a good treatment for cancer because it floods cancer cells with oxygen and they tend to die (are forced into an anaerobic metabolism). So I was interested in that, and then when I learned about LDN, I thought I’d combine the two. Then a man came to see me who had pancreatic cancer which had spread to the liver. A big university hospital told him there was no hope and there was nothing else that could be done. He was only 46 years old, had no bad habits, and was basically a healthy man. I asked him if he’d like to try this combination treatment and he agreed. So we gave him the IV ALA and LDN. Within 2 months he went back to work and his disease was non-progressive and symptom-free more than 3 years later (as opposed to most patients with this cancer who succumb to their disease within 6 months after a very painful course). So I wrote up the case and it was published in Integrative Cancer Therapies.
Dr. Burton Berkson, an integrative physician from New Mexico, relates his vast experience with LDN in treating pancreatic cancer and autoimmune disease.
The Long-term Survival of a Patient With Pancreatic Cancer With Metastases to the Liver After Treatment With the Intravenous -Lipoic Acid/Low-Dose Naltrexone Protocol
In this case report, we describe the treatment of a 64-year-old male patient diagnosed with metastatic renal cell carcinoma (RCC) in June of 2008. In spite of a left nephrectomy and the standard oncological protocols, the patient developed a ...
He (and others who follow his work) were interviewed by Johnathan Landsman on his "Fatty Liver Docu-class", and report complete reversal of liver disease in patients who were literally on a waiting line for liver transplant, or were so ill that were told there was no other option than to have some pain relievers and prepare to die.
Here is another I've found.
A few months ago my husband was diagnosed with gallstones and told to prepare to live with pain meds until it was serious enough for surgery. Me, believing nothing that comes out of their mouth, started googling and YouTubing. It resulted in finding a liver and gallbladder flush that worked amazingly well after only a few days.
This guy, Andreas Moritz, speaks to the connection of the liver, gallbladder and various bile duct dysfunctions which I found helpful. It goes for about 45 min. Lately I have been having some trouble digesting fats and meat so I may give the flush a go. Apparently there can be more stones in the liver than we can imagine and never be picked up because they are not dense enough and let the ultrasound through.
I think it is well worth a listen. I think he was one of those alternative health practitioners that died under mysterious circumstances in 2012 in the US.
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