an issue that remains sin

[truth seeker]

I feel I have to apologize to everyone for arrogantly suggesting that there was a lesson in this for us (members) what I really meant to say and should have was that it was and is a lesson for me as I have no right to determine the needs of others.

I don't know if I would count that as arrogant, friend. We are all here to learn and grow and one should never be insulted by the chance to do so.

Thanks for the encouragement!

I actually learned something from this thread, believe it or not! I think maybe next time I see a post I can't even understand halfway, I probably shouldn't mess with it...

I feel a tad responsible since I was the one who replied first, not only mistaking the gender of insipido, but also ASSUMING that this person was psychologically stable, when he clearly was not.

(I mean no offense to insipido, just stating my opinion) So I may do best to drop my assumptions altogether with new people.

Don't blame yourself, I think most of us were confused. There's nothing wrong with asking anyone to clarify what they're saying. I think that is a basic and valid request here considering that we're all here to learn. In addition, it's difficult sometimes to understand the feeling of what's being said since we don't have facial and body clues to rely on. I think what also came into play (for me at least) is the fact that I'm "in someone elses home" and had to find a balance between what I wanted to say without letting my emotions get in the way. From some of the replies, I get the feeling that others may have been struggling with the same or similar issue.

This is the line that many of us walk here and that's dealing with people who aren't predators. When dealing with them all bets are off and then I think the main issue becomes how quickly we can figure out what is going on so as to lessen any possible damage and not expend unnecessary energy.

 

[forge]

This makes me wonder is there among us pathological persons who convinced even themselves that they are not (me included)

If any of us, including me, is pathological then I think that it's a bit difficult to stay under wraps forever. We are all getting better all the time at figuring this stuff out, and we have a few people here who are especially good at spotting it compared to myself, who's only just started learning how, not that it's always an easy thing to do.
A truly pathological person can't really help themselves, can they? If they truly are unable to control themselves then it's merely a matter of time before they get weeded out, but i could be way wrong.

Also it is hard for people who where close to pathological persons during childhood and became permeated with their presence.

It took me three days to recover. insipido04's words were blasting right through my defenses. I felt sick, confused, thoroughly beaten, squashed like a bug, stunned in mind. Wanted to throw up, expel the sickness but it felt i would be just turned inside-out like a dust-bag.

I remembered Laura saying she felt sick for months after interacting with such people. I found excerpts in Political Ponerology about how the mind becomes catatonic. Couldn't see my weakness until this thread started: I always imagined myself strong and being able to withstand attacks but this kicked me into a pit. Until now i wishfully nurtured the fantasy of my invincibility that is smashed into pieces.

 

[Breton]

This makes me wonder is there among us pathological persons who convinced even themselves that they are not (me included)

If any of us, including me, is pathological then I think that it's a bit difficult to stay under wraps forever. We are all getting better all the time at figuring this stuff out, and we have a few people here who are especially good at spotting it compared to myself, who's only just started learning how, not that it's always an easy thing to do.
A truly pathological person can't really help themselves, can they? If they truly are unable to control themselves then it's merely a matter of time before they get weeded out, but i could be way wrong.

Also it is hard for people who where close to pathological persons during childhood and became permeated with their presence.

It took me three days to recover. insipido04's words were blasting right through my defenses. I felt sick, confused, thoroughly beaten, squashed like a bug, stunned in mind. Wanted to throw up, expel the sickness but it felt i would be just turned inside-out like a dust-bag.

I remembered Laura saying she felt sick for months after interacting with such people. I found excerpts in Political Ponerology about how the mind becomes catatonic. Couldn't see my weakness until this thread started: I always imagined myself strong and being able to withstand attacks but this kicked me into a pit. Until now i wishfully nurtured the fantasy of my invincibility that is smashed into pieces.

I feel like adding this quote, and encourage you all BE STRONG!

There is a war going on, and it seems Forge, you got to be in the front line, and you have the scars to prove it.

From: Pinkola-Estes:

Wild Ways teaches people when not to act 'nice' about protecting their
souls. The instinctive nature knows that being 'sweet' in these instances
only makes the predator smile. When the soul is being threatened, it is not
only acceptable to draw the line and mean it, it is required. ..."

 

[truth seeker]

I'm glad you said that forge, I thought I was the only one! My reaction wasn't as strong as yours but it really wouldn't let go of me (or I couldn't let go of it) for a few days. It really felt invasive and disturbing.

 

[go2]

It really felt invasive and disturbing.

The trick of psychopaths is to disarm the thinking mind. If we engage the world with the intellectual center alone, as modern man is trained to do, we are helpless
to recognize and protect ourselves and our loved ones from invasion by predators. The work here on developing the emotional center is knowledge that protects from predation. Truthseeker felt the predator. Yes, when we develop and trust the emotional center, we quickly feel the presence of danger and take appropriate action.
This "feeling" is often referred to as the "taste" of a post or person. I feel "sticky" when engaged with deviants. It is as if I need a shower. I know I feel cleaner inside and
out as a result of the Work. I am cleaning my own vessel and hence, recognize dirt. FWIW

edit: "the key knowledge" to "knowledge"...as knowledge of predators is also necessary and "the key" gives an incorrect picture..my apologies as I work to become more
precise communicating

 

[dannybananny]

What I first noticed when I started reading this topic is how everyone is being nice to this individual and not seeing that he was pulling everyone in more and more conservation with him, and he changed his statements from emotionally hurting to questioning if he is a psychopath, maybe that was a trick because people think that if he questions his actions then he feels something but that is very hard to sense through forum. Maybe he has serious problems and is sincere but very, very confused, maybe he is a pathological individual or he can be some kind of cointelpro agent that was wasting and vectoring energy of forum members(that was my first thought). He said he doesn't have money but if he really wanted to help himself he would do anything to get it and he was using money on drugs, so his intention to help himself is very questionable. But really I don't know for sure but lot of energy was put in this topic, that is for sure! I don't judge him, yes it's negative(not using word evil because it sound s like it's something that isn't right but for who?), I don't agree with it but he has his free will, yes he can use it to hurt others but it's the way things work. There would be always people and beings like him and even more negative!

 

[abstract]

remembered Laura saying she felt sick for months after interacting with such people. I found excerpts in Political Ponerology about how the mind becomes catatonic.

That might explain a few of my "people hating" behaviors...or maybe it doesn't, it just struck a chord with me. When I was starting out in high-school, I had to take a shower every day

after school. I HAD TO, because I felt like i'd been smothered in some disgusting, nameless filth with all these ridiculous people I had to be crammed into the zoo with. (zoo being the school.)

I used to wake up every day and wonder "why is life so horrible?" Of course, I deal with things better now, but just a few thoughts on that.

 

[vinny]

remembered Laura saying she felt sick for months after interacting with such people. I found excerpts in Political Ponerology about how the mind becomes catatonic.

That might explain a few of my "people hating" behaviors...or maybe it doesn't, it just struck a chord with me. When I was starting out in high-school, I had to take a shower every day

after school. I HAD TO, because I felt like i'd been smothered in some disgusting, nameless filth with all these ridiculous people I had to be crammed into the zoo with. (zoo being the school.)

I would guess that many people have a similar experience in their ridiculous pathological zoo of a work environment. I certainly felt that way when I worked in an office.

 

[abstract]

would guess that many people have a similar experience in their ridiculous pathological zoo of a work environment. I certainly felt that way when I worked in an office.

Yeah, it is a common experience, I was throwing my subjectivity all over that comment, oops.

Sometimes I wish I could work from home...

 

[Cumulus]

I'm very new here and am having trouble overcoming shyness about posting. Reading this thread I am so glad that Laura shut it down when she did. Although I am new here, I have seen trolls in action in a lot of other places and I was worried.

I don't want to sound like I think I know all about everything, but may I share some of the "tells" that I saw from this troll?

word salad - confused sentence structure, random punctuation, random typography (lines ending here, there, everywhere). This isn't the same as the grammatical errors we make when we are writing in a different language. It's very confusing and it's intended to be.

sarcastic screen name - there is nothing insipid about a predatory pedophile.

self-contradicting - In this case, it went: "I'm a pedophile, I don't want to be, I'm fated to be, accept me, you're defective in compassion if you can't accept me, I want to change, help me change'.

pity ploy - Martha Stout has talked about this one. Feel sorry for me because I'm a monster. (or, "help me help me I think I'm a monster please tell me I'm not")

arrogance - I don't really know how to describe this one. It's a kind of 'preening' feeling you get about the poster, as though all the time they're acting out they have one eye on themselves in a mirror somewhere. A quality of falseness but also of conceit. It's hard to capture it in words, but it does somehow come through underneath the words they post.

This is from my own experience, so I can't cite references as much as I would like, but I can say that Martha Stout captures much of this in "The Sociopath Next Door", and Hare and Babiak capture some in "Snakes in Suits".

It hurts to see people hurting here because of this. I've been hurt very badly by trying to help trolls in other times and places; nowadays for me, it's painful to see them operate. I wish I could help. All I have to offer is that I care, and that these are the things I watch for, now. For what they are worth.

 

[Mountain Crown]

I'm very new here and am having trouble overcoming shyness about posting.

No need for this Cumulus. Your post has valuable information. Thanks.

 

[Oxajil]

I'm very new here and am having trouble overcoming shyness about posting.

No need for this Cumulus. Your post has valuable information. Thanks.

Indeed! Thanks for posting.

 

[pete02]

I'm very new here and am having trouble overcoming shyness about posting.

No need for this Cumulus. Your post has valuable information. Thanks.

Indeed! Thanks for posting.

I agree Cumulus. It looks to me like you nailed this one pretty well imo. I got some of these impressions myself while reading thru this thread. Your info is very helpful! ;)

 

[Gonzo]

I wanted first to thank all for the support I received after my post. This is truly a unique and caring place. As well, I am grateful for the shepherds who work tirelessly to protect us on the forum. I know it can be quite difficult to balance monitoring against not becoming too calloused and cold. So, from the bottom of my heart, thank you.

I really don't know if insipio04's intention was initially predatory. I sense at the outcome it was more like someone with a good deal of self importance who wanted Laura, perhaps, to ask the C's why he was this way, in the sense of his purpose, but also as a justification to not change. Perhaps he was looking for an authoritative excuse, like being divinely designed this way, to give him carte blanche to carry out his desires (or to excuse him when he "accidentally" looses control).

But, I felt that as soon as the situation didn't live up to his expectations, his predator side took over and started to toy with the participants and thrived on the attention. He seemed quite at home, not shy at all, perhaps even emboldened and/or fueled by the attention as indicated by his response to truth seeker:

(Quote from truth seeker)
I'm unfortunately also getting the feeling from your posts that you may be enjoying the attention you're receiving from starting this post. Is this true?

(Quote from insipio04)
put your mind over your feelings then, dont let them drag you (everyone)enjoying no, thats superficial this is not a game but like i say if your not ready to walk, dont try to fly

Oh, I forgot to answer some questions that were asked of me earlier. Forgive me if this makes the post a little long.

To respond to webglider's comment:

Looking at the length of my post, I am now worried that what I have written is unimportant and externally inconsiderate as it is wasting people's time.

I didn't get that impression at all. Your post seems very sincere to me. There does seem to be a program running though - one that is compelling you to meet everyone's approval. If I'm correct, and I may not be, then this program will cause you to second guess yourself time and time again as there's no way you can ever know for sure what people will think because what others are thinking is as likely as not to be conditioned by their programs.

I have to say I'm surprised you could tell that much about me. I tend to be perhaps too much of an open book, but I didn't think one of my biggest issues, that of wanting everyone to approve of and accept me, was that obvious. You are absolutely correct in you assessment.

This has been a struggle for me my entire life and I have made what I thought were great discoveries and changes only to find it had morphed, becoming more subtle and therefore more difficult to detect and catch. Here's hoping the EE program helps.

I had been taught that paedophiles were predominantly heterosexuals.

Yes, it is a common blurring of definition that pedophiles are predominantly heterosexual. Pedophiles are sexual attracted to prepubescent children. This category has nothing to do with homosexual or heterosexual. If the attraction is acted upon, it is child sexual abuse and a crime. Where were you taught that pedophiles are predominantly heterosexual? Whose agenda is served by blurring the definition of pedophilia?

Whose agenda? Good question. When I was a reporter for a gay newspaper, I would frequently hear the concept of gays being less likely to be paedophiles. This was usually in response to hearing stories of parents removing their children from an event or program because a gay man is involved and the parents fear he will abuse their children. Personally, I have not been able to form an opinion either way as I have seen conflicting studies and opposing views from various psychologists. There always seems to be a strong bias whenever I have encountered an opinion. Within the gay community that I experienced, the opinion was mostly heard from gay activists.

However, I noticed something interesting in that when activists within the gay community state opinions as fact, these opinions are soon repeated by more neutral (less activist) community members. And I had the same experience in a small rural town, although in this case the opinion was the exact opposite. For example, there was a man working at a day care. I would frequently hear two assumptions: that the man must be gay and that he would be attracted to the children so he should be fired.

 

[abstract]

Gonzo, the last part of your post got me thinking about homosexuality a bit.

What is up with this whole "people choose to be gay" stuff? I honestly cannot believe that a homosexual consciously chooses to be that way. Makes no sense whatsoever.

Now I could be wrong, but isn't your sexual orientation like, hardwired into your brain from birth? Or how does that work?