Are you voting & why?

[Hildegarda]

I'm voting because there is such a pervasive feeling of "Why bother" that it must be serving someone's interests. Hey, if you can't surpress the vote, if you can convince everyone that his/her vote won't count, you don't have to go to all that trouble to steal the election. [..] And even if my vote is sabotaged, nullified, lost, or changed, I have carried out my intention to do what I think is right no matter and I have not allowed the corruption of the system to corrupt me.

This is sort of why I voted -- thank you for putting it succinctly. Plus, ever since Palin came on the scene and the Republican campaign has descended into the basest, dumbest and the most primitive, into lying, fear-mongering, near-rioting and raving madness, I have wanted to "state it" to the Universe one way or the other, that I am disagreeing with this with all that I am.

And also, I didn't want the local Republican -- a vomitricious individual who stopped by my house to introduce himself -- to get into the State House. We had a local proposition to vote on as well. BTW we have paper ballots.

 

[Bernhard]

Sure the candidates are the same, sure my vote for president won't matter, but I don't see any concrete reason it would hurt to vote. I'm not lieing to myself about it, and I may actually extract data from the experience that can help others understand election fraud. So why not?

The way I see is that by voting one actually gives credibility to the corrupt system with its pathocrats, feeding it energy and sustaining its fake existence, re-enforcing the "prison". On a global scale anyone who votes for a candidate who spreads lies is (in)directly responsible for the misery and genocide that is happening in the world under the name of "security", "war on terror" and "freedom". (both McCain and Obama push the terrorism lie big time!). Hence, voting in this current system with its limited choices can be quite "harmful" because it may have an effect on some level.

I'm voting, mostly because it's fun.

There are other things you could do for "fun". In light of "The Work" to be done, I also feel that "doing" can only happen if one starts acting with intent, becoming more self-aware when "acting" and look more carefully into oneself why one is acting to begin with, what "force" is behind it. Is there conditioning? Even maybe a little wishful thinking? Am I acting "responsibly" even if it seems like a very trivial, harmless or useless act? And if it is useless why would I want to do it to begin with? I don't see the "fun" part here. Learning is fun but not voting....fwiw.

"A warrior takes responsibility for his acts, for the most trivial of acts.
An average man acts out his thoughts, and never takes responsibility for what he does." - Don Juan

As a good friend said to me the other day: "Don't vote, you only encourage them."

I still believe that if one cannot be bothered to vote, then one is not entitled to complain about the outcome.

What "outcome" are you talking about?
I'd say it's just the opposite. As George Carlin said: "If you vote you have no right to complain". ;)

 

[Ruth]

The way I see is that by voting one actually gives credibility to the corrupt system with its pathocrats, feeding it energy and sustaining its fake existence, re-enforcing the "prison". On a global scale anyone who votes for a candidate who spreads lies is (in)directly responsible for the misery and genocide that is happening in the world under the name of "security", "war on terror" and "freedom". (both McCain and Obama push the terrorism lie big time!). Hence, voting in this current system with its limited choices can be quite "harmful" because it may have an effect on some level.

What if living actually gave credence and support to the STS system that we currently inhabit? If we didn't want to 'support' it, or 'feed' it, we'd all be better off shuttling off to 5th density post haste. This is the system we live in and we need to take part in it, flawed or not. Otherwise - why bother?


[quote author=Bernhard] There are other things you could do for "fun". In light of "The Work" to be done, I also feel that "doing" can only happen if one starts acting with intent, becoming more self-aware when "acting" and look more carefully into oneself why one is acting to begin with, what "force" is behind it. Is there conditioning? Even maybe a little wishful thinking? Am I acting "responsibly" even if it seems like a very trivial, harmless or useless act? And if it is useless why would I want to do it to begin with? I don't see the "fun" part here. Learning is fun but not voting....fwiw.[/quote]

You could try voting, or would that be too much "work"? Especially as it may be considered by some to be such a trivial, harmless and useless act. But, its still one you can take responsibility for, even if it has no perceivable or observable effect.


[quote author=Bernhard] As a good friend said to me the other day: "Don't vote, you only encourage them."[/quote]
To do what? And how would you encourage them?


[quote author=Bernhard] [quote author=rs]
I still believe that if one cannot be bothered to vote, then one is not entitled to complain about the outcome.
[/quote]


What "outcome" are you talking about? [/quote]

I'm guessing here, but unless you take part in a system, then you have no right to voice an opinion about an outcome - any outcome. You essentially become 'invisible', or at least more invisible to any group, person or system that has power over things.

[quote author=Bernhard] I'd say it's just the opposite. As George Carlin said: "If you vote you have no right to complain". ;)[/quote]
Was he being sarcastic, or was that part of his comedy routine?

 

[Mountain Crown]

Choosing whether or not to vote out of some principle regarding voting per se is not the issue. We are asked to vote for particular candidates.

If anyone here feels either McCain or Obama deserves support, than by all means vote. For me, Max Kantar pretty much sums it up here:

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/168059-The-Opium-of-the-Masses

If anyone thinks the voting process is reliable, there are a few pertinent articles on the Sott page worth reading.

 

[Oxajil]

fwiw:

This is the system we live in and we need to take part in it, flawed or not. Otherwise - why bother?

We do live in this system, but taking part in it can be done in many ways. It doesn't, I think, necessarily 'mean' that we need to take part in every thing that 'has to be done' in this system. If people choose not to vote, then what does it matter? If people choose to vote, would it make any difference? Maybe, maybe not. But what I've read so far, I'm not so sure.
If Obama wins, I won't be ''happy'' and I won't be ''happy'' if McCain wins. Seen both parties, I have to say that Palin scares me more than any of the two.

I'm guessing here, but unless you take part in a system, then you have no right to voice an opinion about an outcome - any outcome. You essentially become 'invisible', or at least more invisible to any group, person or system that has power over things.

Can perhaps 'not voting' also be seen as 'taking part in the system'? Can't someone have the opinion to say that he/she will refuse to vote because of all the lies going around? Be it a silent opinion or not... I think not voting could be also seen as taking part in the system. It's not like someone is ignoring the whole Presidential Election and focuses on the light and love instead, the latter I could see as not taking part in a system. But that's how I perceive things and I could be wrong.

 

[Adaryn]

I'm voting because there is such a pervasive feeling of "Why bother" that it must be serving someone's interests. Hey, if you can't surpress the vote, if you can convince everyone that his/her vote won't count, you don't have to go to all that trouble to steal the election. [..] And even if my vote is sabotaged, nullified, lost, or changed, I have carried out my intention to do what I think is right no matter and I have not allowed the corruption of the system to corrupt me.

This is sort of why I voted -- thank you for putting it succinctly. Plus, ever since Palin came on the scene and the Republican campaign has descended into the basest, dumbest and the most primitive, into lying, fear-mongering, near-rioting and raving madness, I have wanted to "state it" to the Universe one way or the other, that I am disagreeing with this with all that I am.

That is why I voted too, in the last French presidential election. I had to state I didn't want Sarkozy as a president. It felt right to do it.
And we still had paper ballots in most of the country.

 

[Adaryn]

I still believe that if one cannot be bothered to vote, then one is not entitled to complain about the outcome.

What "outcome" are you talking about?
I'd say it's just the opposite. As George Carlin said: "If you vote you have no right to complain". ;)

FWIW, I agree with rs. I'd say if you don't even bother to make this small act, to state that even if the voting system is corrupted and your vote doesn't count on THIS level, you still intend to send a message to the Universe/yourself about what you DON'T want, then you have no right to complain.

 

[Jacques]

I still believe that if one cannot be bothered to vote, then one is not entitled to complain about the outcome.

What "outcome" are you talking about?
I'd say it's just the opposite. As George Carlin said: "If you vote you have no right to complain". ;)

FWIW, I agree with rs. I'd say if you don't even bother to make this small act, to state that even if the voting system is corrupted and your vote doesn't count on THIS level, you still intend to send a message to the Universe/yourself about what you DON'T want, then you have no right to complain.

Hum, i might be totally way out but it looks to me as if US citizens have the choice to be exploit/control by Obama's gang or McCain's gang and whoever controls them.

As far as i am concern, it is not a choice. Who would you prefer to have as a torturer?

I think the real message to send about what we do not want would be something like not voting at all while doing a demonstration. We do not want that corrupted system anymore.

my 2 cents

 

[Adaryn]

Hum, i might be totally way out but it looks to me as if US citizens have the choice to be exploit/control by Obama's gang or McCain's gang and whoever controls them.

Yes but it was the same for the French election. Isn't the French system as corrupted as the US one, since as the C's say : "they're all One" ?
Yet, remember the blogging, the articles we all wrote/shared in order to show Sarkozy's true face to people, to convince them not to vote for Sarkozy, AND to vote for the other, less worse (not psychopathic) candidate.
One might say it's just a symbolic act, but after all, one never knows.
Just my 2 cents too...

 

[Cyre2067]

Sure the candidates are the same, sure my vote for president won't matter, but I don't see any concrete reason it would hurt to vote. I'm not lieing to myself about it, and I may actually extract data from the experience that can help others understand election fraud. So why not?

The way I see is that by voting one actually gives credibility to the corrupt system with its pathocrats, feeding it energy and sustaining its fake existence, re-enforcing the "prison". On a global scale anyone who votes for a candidate who spreads lies is (in)directly responsible for the misery and genocide that is happening in the world under the name of "security", "war on terror" and "freedom". (both McCain and Obama push the terrorism lie big time!). Hence, voting in this current system with its limited choices can be quite "harmful" because it may have an effect on some level.

Well, I work, I buy stuff, and I pay my taxes. Those three things combined contribute to 'the system' more then voting does, imho. Simply put, I'm STS, I live on Earth, now and I'm stuck here until I become something else. I can't go off into the woods and pretend to be STO, it just doesn't work that way. Similarly I think that if you tell yourself your 'not contributing to the pathocratic system' by not voting you're lying to yourself. What about local elections? What about learning all you can about the process itself? As I stated before, trying out these new 'touchscreens' and seeing them for myself - learning about them - is my priority here.

I can learn all I can about this 3D STS existence by being in it and examining it and myself throughout. That includes the voting process. I've observed the fact that I 'like' Obama. While I know all the negatives, all the excellently put bits that went into 'The Opium of the Masses', I find myself still 'liking' him and I want to learn more about that. I know I'll be 'happy' if he 'wins' and if McCain win's, well, let's just say it'll be an interesting emotional experience to observe.

I'm voting, mostly because it's fun.

There are other things you could do for "fun". In light of "The Work" to be done, I also feel that "doing" can only happen if one starts acting with intent, becoming more self-aware when "acting" and look more carefully into oneself why one is acting to begin with, what "force" is behind it. Is there conditioning? Even maybe a little wishful thinking? Am I acting "responsibly" even if it seems like a very trivial, harmless or useless act? And if it is useless why would I want to do it to begin with? I don't see the "fun" part here. Learning is fun but not voting....fwiw.

I think you contradict yourself here. Voting, the process, is a learning experience - thus the fun. The people in line, the looks on their faces, the murmurs, the smells and the emotions surrounding the event are quite potent. Just being there and taking it all in while observing yourself is an invaluable experience imho, and I wouldn't skip that for fear of 'sustaining the illusion'.

"A warrior takes responsibility for his acts, for the most trivial of acts.
An average man acts out his thoughts, and never takes responsibility for what he does." - Don Juan

As a good friend said to me the other day: "Don't vote, you only encourage them."

Given all they do to dissuade voters, they don't want you to vote. So I will and I'll take more from the experience then the average bear, looking at all the gems along the path, so to speak.

I still believe that if one cannot be bothered to vote, then one is not entitled to complain about the outcome.

What "outcome" are you talking about?
I'd say it's just the opposite. As George Carlin said: "If you vote you have no right to complain". ;)

This is the conventional wisdom, how can one complain about politics without taking part? You can argue that voting is just an illusion, one that 'really isn't taking part', it's just bullshit to placate the masses - and I would agree with you. However, given all the changes I think that going, being a 'voter' but above 'voting' at the same time is the more informative way to go. Seeing it, but not believing it. Questioning everything and taking as much data from the scene as you can, that I think, is the real value in voting.




[/quote]

 

[Lirpa]

I am not voting.

I do voice my opinion and complain to a select few people in my life. Other than that, I only share my opinion and complain with people other than those select few IF I am able to discern that they are sincerely asking in order to practice external consideration.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I'm voting, mostly because it's fun. [...] can't hurt right? [...] I don't see any concrete reason it would hurt to vote. I'm not lieing to myself about it, and I may actually extract data from the experience that can help others understand election fraud. So why not?

Sounds almost like you're grasping at straws to rationalize it for yourself. Personally I'm not voting. I see it as supporting the system more than I must do for strategic enclosure reasons. Yes I support it, but only where I have to. I agree with Bernhard's thoughts on this, I feel that by showing up at the polls I'm "legitimizing" the process for others, creating a sort of "social proof" for them just by appearing and adding to the numbers of people at the polls. But if I voted, I might just vote for McCain. He might be more efficient than Obama to bring war, suffering, and chaos, and exposing the whole system as the fraud that it is. It is inevitable, it's just a matter of time, so why stall and pacify people into sleep? If people feel the burn, they have impetus to wake up.

I'm voting. I figure if my vote weren't important, there wouldn't be such concerted effort to surpress, manipulate, or flip my vote to the other candidate.

I don't think the effort to flip votes is by the PTB, it's most likely by the candidates themselves. They both want to get into that position of power. The PTB could very well not care which one makes it, they've both been more than likely vetted and pre-approved. I don't think the PTB need to "rig votes" to keep someone out of the office. If they didn't want Obama to be in office, you wouldn't even hear his name on TV or know who he is at all.

I'm voting because there is such a pervasive feeling of "Why bother" that it must be serving someone's interests.

I think the issue here is that those who see that their vote doesn't matter/count are manipulated into helplessness. They are given the choice between either voting or doing nothing, and that's the trap. There are things that they can do that do matter and can make a difference, but the PTB don't want people to consider that because then people might get creative and unpredictable and we know how the PTB "love" that. The PTB want people to only choose from the limited pool of options the PTB provide in life. Belief systems of various complexity catered to each "level" of individual. But as long as it acts as a vector and manipulates people with lies, subjectivity, and twisted priorities, its ok. But something not pre-approved by the PTB is a nono.

Yes but it was the same for the French election. Isn't the French system as corrupted as the US one, since as the C's say : "they're all One" ?
Yet, remember the blogging, the articles we all wrote/shared in order to show Sarkozy's true face to people, to convince them not to vote for Sarkozy, AND to vote for the other, less worse (not psychopathic) candidate.
One might say it's just a symbolic act, but after all, one never knows.
Just my 2 cents too...

My impression of that was that it would be much more difficult to convince the French population in such short notice that the entire global system is totally rigged and corrupt and irrelevant. So if they could at least see the obvious psychopath out of the 2 candidates, that would be a step in the right direction. But would Ségolène Royal actually have any ability to lead France into a better direction? I guess it depends on how much "wiggle room" there is in the PTB's plans, and the same question can be asked about Obama vs McCain today. But wiggle room or not, I don't see how a candidate can possibly come even close to being elected in the Western world without full cooperation with the PTB's plans - whether consciously or unconsciously.

 

[Jacques]

Hum, i might be totally way out but it looks to me as if US citizens have the choice to be exploit/control by Obama's gang or McCain's gang and whoever controls them.

Yes but it was the same for the French election. Isn't the French system as corrupted as the US one, since as the C's say : "they're all One" ?
Yet, remember the blogging, the articles we all wrote/shared in order to show Sarkozy's true face to people, to convince them not to vote for Sarkozy, AND to vote for the other, less worse (not psychopathic) candidate.
One might say it's just a symbolic act, but after all, one never knows.
Just my 2 cents too...

Yes i do remember the blogging and everything else we did. But at that time France (leaders) was not as "american" as it is now. It might be utopian but maybe Ségolène Royal would have sold the France to the US less rapidly that Sarkozy. It could have made a little difference.

But for the us election, i think both candidates are quite similar.

 

[Bernhard]

This is the system we live in and we need to take part in it, flawed or not. Otherwise - why bother?
....
You could try voting, or would that be too much "work"? Especially as it may be considered by some to be such a trivial, harmless and useless act. But, its still one you can take responsibility for, even if it has no perceivable or observable effect.

The "Work" I was referring to is the esoteric work of self-observation and understanding ones actions in light of the 4th way or path of the warrior, the question of "doing" to begin with.
It's quite simple. Voting in this current system with its options does not agree with my conscience. There is not one candidate who speaks truth. It all comes down to Obama or McCain in the end of the day and both support the biggest lie of this age, resulting in millions of people suffering, especially in the middle east, hence I don't give my vote to anyone who lies straight out. The whole "you have to vote because it's the system we live in" is part of the conditioning and programming. The illusion of choice in this political system. There is no choice. Many people think Obama is "the man" when he's actually the perfect puppet, because so many "liberals" and self-proclaimed "aware" and "conscious" people fall for him, while in reality he's got people behind him (Zionist Biden, Bush pal Colin Powell) who steer him into the "right" direction. In the end of the day his foreign policy doesn't differ much at all from the Bush administration. I also find it rather amusing that he's related to Dick Cheney:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGiVMHxGvgE

It's the same old game, the candidates differ in minor things, mostly of a national nature (taxes, health care, economy, etc....) and debate all day long about it, talking about "hope" and "change", while the main direction stays the same. If I could get a dollar each time a candidate has used the words "hope" and "change" in any given election, I'd be very rich.

I don't vote BECAUSE I care and not because I say "why bother?". There are many other ways to facilitate change than crossing an X on election day for someone you know already he's lying. By voting for the one who lies, one supports the lie and gives it more power and validation.

In any way, lot of people talk about voting and that they are voting, how important it is, etc.......kinda locked into the whole idea that "one needs to exercise his right to vote".......but WHO is everyone really voting for, I'm curious? What is the candidate you give your vote and hence permission to act really standing for? What is he saying? Considering that most people here read SOTT and are aware of the lies in the world, mostly the "war on terror", 9/11, "National Security", Palestinian Genocide, "designed" financial crises, etc......I wonder what candidate speaks out clearly against these lies and deceptions that shape the world these days?

I'm all up for voting if there would be actually a "choice", but the question is really WHO do I want to give my permission to act under my name?
Haven't found a leader I'd like to follow, incld. 3rd party candidates.

I'm voting. I figure if my vote weren't important, there wouldn't be such concerted effort to surpress, manipulate, or flip my vote to the other candidate.

I don't think the effort to flip votes is by the PTB, it's most likely by the candidates themselves. They both want to get into that position of power. The PTB could very well not care which one makes it, they've both been more than likely vetted and pre-approved. I don't think the PTB need to "rig votes" to keep someone out of the office. If they didn't want Obama to be in office, you wouldn't even hear his name on TV or know who he is at all.

I guess it depends on how much "wiggle room" there is in the PTB's plans, and the same question can be asked about Obama vs McCain today. But wiggle room or not, I don't see how a candidate can possibly come even close to being elected in the Western world without full cooperation with the PTB's plans - whether consciously or unconsciously.

That is an important point to keep in mind. No candidate that is ever a threat to the PTB would have gotten that much exposure and support from the highly controlled mainstream media these days. Remember what happened to Ron Paul who questioned the Federal Reserve? Gone from TV. Obama is just another sleeping pill for the masses and certainly no "change". In many ways I see Obama as the better "tool" for the PTB, simply because so many people fall for him, from the left and the right.

 

[Bernhard]

I've observed the fact that I 'like' Obama. While I know all the negatives, all the excellently put bits that went into 'The Opium of the Masses', I find myself still 'liking' him and I want to learn more about that. I know I'll be 'happy' if he 'wins' and if McCain win's, well, let's just say it'll be an interesting emotional experience to observe.

Well, that might be a good exercise of observation. What "I" in you likes Obama? Does maybe Wishful Thinking plays a role in it? What do you "like" about him? His hypnotic slogans? His eloquent speech? That he's "black"? But behind all these masks of appearances and promises, what is he really saying? Where is he standing on the more important issues this world faces, namely the lies that are support by all the major candidates? If you observe closely and more objectively you might see that he, McCain and Bush are not different on many of the core issues.

Voting, the process, is a learning experience - thus the fun. The people in line, the looks on their faces, the murmurs, the smells and the emotions surrounding the event are quite potent. Just being there and taking it all in while observing yourself is an invaluable experience imho, and I wouldn't skip that for fear of 'sustaining the illusion'.

Given all they do to dissuade voters, they don't want you to vote. So I will and I'll take more from the experience then the average bear, looking at all the gems along the path, so to speak.

Who are "they" and who doesn't want you to vote? Seems to me everyone, from Celebrities, to Rock Stars, to Politicians (left and right) push everyone to vote, vote and vote! It's all about VOTING. That's the problem. People are so locked into the idea that they must vote and so loose ability to critical think and analyze before "doing" so. It's like "vote, no matter what!".
Seems more like the opposite. If you tell someone you are not voting, you are looked at like a traitor or unpatriotic.
So where do you pick up that "they" dissuade voters? I don't see it.