Artificial Intelligence News & Discussion

[genero81]

In a sinister/esoteric sense, it seems like all this artificial stuff is designed to replace the need to develop natural faculties that can potentially do it much better. The internet is a substitute for the cosmic information field. Artificial Intelligence and automation is a substitute for you having to think. Computers/phones/google are a substitute for your memory - why remember when your smart phone stores everything for you, or you can just google it. So a brain chip is an extreme version leading to extreme brain atrophy.

I'm starting to understand why mystery schools throughout the ages have kept such a low profile. In the STS case it's because knowledge is power. But in the STO case it's because almost no one is ASKING. They made things available to the seeker only if a commensurate effort is put forth to acquire the information - it is available but encoded, scattered, etc. The very act of striving and seeking is itself a work of self-development, as you learn how to commit to something and focus and work hard for it - which literally, over time, has the effect of actually turning you into the type of person who "deserves" the knowledge, because this shows you will appreciate it, and apply it responsibly and productively.

I agree with your point. I just want to say, and this is off the cuff because I have to go, that maybe a distinction needs to be made about what it means to truly think. I think Whitehead does a great job of elucidating that but don't have time to find the relative quotes. Let me just say it this way; that real thinking is not just taking in information but taking that information and processing it with one's experience in mind, to help increase one's awareness, or perspective, or understanding of things. In other words a process that involves many parts that make up a collective whole. There are not many people who really do that, I don't think. So for those people making things easier for their relatively simple level of awareness is going to result in degeneration. Perhaps though, for those who can think in the true sense of the word, some of that technology might actually be useful in a not so negative way. Just some thoughts.

 

[Azur]

Except for all of your extemporizing bullshit, you aren't wrong, as annp anart used to say.

The programming is complete.

We know.

 

[Azur]

Except for all of your extemporizing bullshit, you aren't wrong, as ant22 anart used to say.

The programming is complete.

We know.

Apologies to annp.

 

[3DStudent]

Except for all of your extemporizing bullshit, you aren't wrong, as annp anart used to say.

The programming is complete.

We know.

Is everything ok? That is rude and uncalled for.

 

[Aaron r]

I second that. Ouch!

 

[Scottie]

maybe a distinction needs to be made about what it means to truly think.

That's my main problem with AI as it stands today. Deciding if an e-mail is spam or not is not AI. Or is it?

There are very simple algorithms and databases of "bad stuff" that the algorithm may or may not use to decide if an e-mail is spam. If there is intelligence involved there, it's a very low level - maybe sort of like an insect brain.

There is this theory that our brains are kind of a 3d WiFi antenna, and it's actually "us" from somewhere else that is the transmitter/controller. In that case, it's entirely possible that at some point, some of this "AI" stuff will be sufficiently complex to act as a similar antenna. But how do we define what "sufficiently complex" even means here? How consciousness works and what that word even means is still a total mystery to us.

So, when the C's say that our puters will overpower us, I take that to mean that it's not that AI will kill us all like Skynet, but more that the dumbing down of the population and our ridiculous dependence on this "fake" technology will lead us (is leading us already) to becoming weak and helpless.

It's like the, "men will lose their sex drives and start following more spiritual paths". Like me, you probably interpreted that in a specific way. Now we can see a bit better how it's actually playing out, and it's not so simple.

It's also not so simple in that we have AI, social madness, protests, potential revolution, Earth changes, Russia Did It, economic uncertainty, etc. It's a whole lot of chaos... out of which something will be born, but what?

Fortunately, all of these things are opportunities to look deeper and to help guide those who have eyes to see into a better possible future - whatever the heck THAT means!

 

[goyacobol]

I second that. Ouch!

I wonder if this has anything to do with the Ouch? Of course this was in honor of earlier posts.

We all get ouchy I think but it's good to let others know why sometimes.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Except for all of your extemporizing bullshit, you aren't wrong, as annp anart used to say.

The programming is complete.

We know.

I could've refined the post better. I actually condensed the post several times before submitting, to keep the fluff and tangents down, but I'll try to do more of that. This actually ties well into Scottie's question of "what is thought". I find that it is non-verbal initially, and writing (or painting for that matter) it down can sometimes be a way to help understand your own thoughts better, like a fly doing circles around a light trying to get closer to it. It may take some refinement before the words match the intention. Sometimes there are several connecting ideas, and it can be tricky to connect them efficiently, properly, and without fluff. Also, I found the quote I used while looking for something else actually - Laura wrote about a civilization that didn't believe in writing things down, as they believed it hinders memory and using your mind, but for the life of me I couldn't remember which civilization it was or where she talked about them (ironic right?!), and this quote came up in my search instead, which basically expressed a similar idea.

I like the theory Scottie mentioned about brains being like wifi antennas, because I don't know where my thoughts come from, they just appear out of nowhere, like a flash, with no words, and then words are used to communicate or express them. Even when thinking about a particular thing consciously with words, it can either be pure logic like solving an equation, but very often it's like "ok here's the data" then some mysterious background process takes it, works on it, and suddenly you get the "AHA!" moment, as if that thing finished and presented its results back into your conscious mind. It's a weird thing!

So maybe the purely logical equation solving is what AI can also do, but that mysterious background process is something yet to be understood and therefore implemented. Then again, the complexity idea is that this could be an emergent property of a complexity itself - throw enough neurons together, and it just comes about, according to many AI scientists anyway. Something tells me it’s not so simple, given what we know about evolution and origin of life though - that the physical interfaces with the non physical somehow.

 

[goyacobol]

I like the theory Scottie mentioned about brains being like wifi antennas, because I don't know where my thoughts come from, they just appear out of nowhere, like a flash, with no words, and then words are used to communicate or express them. Even when thinking about a particular thing consciously with words, it can either be pure logic like solving an equation, but very often it's like "ok here's the data" then some mysterious background process takes it, works on it, and suddenly you get the "AHA!" moment, as if that thing finished and presented its results back into your conscious mind. It's a weird thing!

For our AI programming the idea of "communication" is I think still very primitive compared to the design of our Orion designed containers.

I think figuring out exactly where our thoughts are coming from and what is the best way to communicate them is something to, well, "think" about.

Session 7 November 1994:

Q: (L) Is there some way to communicate with whales or dolphins and can one find a way to translate the differences and have a reasonable, intelligent exchange with a whale or a dolphin or even an elephant?

A: You don't need conversation "with" when a higher telepathic level.

Q: (L) Dolphins and whales communicate telepathically?

A: Yes. So do dogs and cats and snakes etc. etc. only humans have learned the "superior" art of verbal communication.

Q: (L) But, at the same time, verbal communication can be quite limiting, is that correct?

A: That is the point.

Q: (L) So, you were being sarcastic with me, weren't you?

A: Humorous.

 

[mrtn]

A: Yes. So do dogs and cats and snakes etc. etc. only humans have learned the "superior" art of verbal communication.

Gives another level to the Babel issue. Maybe it wasn't confusion of tongue, but rather introduction of it

 

[monotonic]

From that exchange it's almost as if cold reading would qualify as a kind of telepathy. It sounds as if the level of information transferred is similar.

To avoid writing in order to preserve mental skills is basically an admission that you are not in control and that you need a special environment or supervision from an outside source in order to do what is right. Or perhaps it is an admission that you have no aim and therefore have nothing useful to do with a given technological advancement. It's sort of like the thorn in the flesh... I've been in situations where I preferred not to eliminate a limitation because I felt the limitation is keeping me from becoming a worse person. And maybe sometimes it's the right thing to do; we must all choose our battles and you don't walk into a china shop when you have an overwhelming desire to smash plates.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

From that exchange it's almost as if cold reading would qualify as a kind of telepathy. It sounds as if the level of information transferred is similar.

To avoid writing in order to preserve mental skills is basically an admission that you are not in control and that you need a special environment or supervision from an outside source in order to do what is right. Or perhaps it is an admission that you have no aim and therefore have nothing useful to do with a given technological advancement. It's sort of like the thorn in the flesh... I've been in situations where I preferred not to eliminate a limitation because I felt the limitation is keeping me from becoming a worse person. And maybe sometimes it's the right thing to do; we must all choose our battles and you don't walk into a china shop when you have an overwhelming desire to smash plates.

Yup! I think it's a recognition of the human condition - like yeah this is a great tool, but people being people... Like people reading nothing but comics or other "entertainment" may have been better off not reading at all. Also people really good at random trivia like Jeopardy players or those with photographic memories - it doesn't mean they're learning anything that adds to their knowledge and wisdom, they can be just a data repository.

I think this is also a key difference between AI and humans. AI is given massive databases and is learning how to "mimic" conversations and writing. It's just a pattern recognition and statistical analysis engine - it's not learning to express its own thoughts or intentions, as it has none, so it's just copying and combining things from that vast database to "pretend" to talk. Humans use their vocabulary as a tool to express thoughts - completely different from computers. It's like driving a car to get somewhere, vs a computer that drives the car without any purpose or aim, all it knows is how to follow road signs, stay in lane, and hit the gas pedal - which looks like driving, but it has no real direction.

 

[Azur]

From that exchange it's almost as if cold reading would qualify as a kind of telepathy. It sounds as if the level of information transferred is similar.

To avoid writing in order to preserve mental skills is basically an admission that you are not in control and that you need a special environment or supervision from an outside source in order to do what is right. Or perhaps it is an admission that you have no aim and therefore have nothing useful to do with a given technological advancement. It's sort of like the thorn in the flesh... I've been in situations where I preferred not to eliminate a limitation because I felt the limitation is keeping me from becoming a worse person. And maybe sometimes it's the right thing to do; we must all choose our battles and you don't walk into a china shop when you have an overwhelming desire to smash plates.

All that glitters is not Gold. I broke some plates. Some window shoppers may have gotten upset.

I'm forever in debt to this strong community that isn't brittle.

Ra: I am Ra. You begin to grasp the situation. Let us continue the metaphor of the schooling but consider the scholar as being an entity in your younger years of the schooling process. The entity is fed, clothed, and protected regardless of whether or not the schoolwork is accomplished. Therefore, the entity does not do the homework but rather enjoys playtime, mealtime, and vacation. It is not until there is a reason to wish to excel that most entities will attempt to excel.

Yup! I think it's a recognition of the human condition - like yeah this is a great tool, but people being people... Like people reading nothing but comics or other "entertainment" may have been better off not reading at all. Also people really good at random trivia like Jeopardy players or those with photographic memories - it doesn't mean they're learning anything that adds to their knowledge and wisdom, they can be just a data repository.

[...]

"Pretend" to talk was my trip wire in your (many) previous post(s). I meant to keep it in "edit" mode to work out WHY it bugged me, and well, it got out this time.

You've written a lot of what I used to write but stopped years ago.

That's on me.

A lot of it resonates and comes from the same place.

It's my frustration of not getting through in the wider World; being so God damn sensitive, smart and "successful" by society's measure, I see many same people who are in purgatory. They can help, but not everyone. The situations are complex and very, very, very rarely cut and dried as we'd like them to be.

I thank you all for listening, and your toleration.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

All that glitters is not Gold. I broke some plates. Some window shoppers may have gotten upset.

I'm forever in debt to this strong community that isn't brittle.





"Pretend" to talk was my trip wire in your (many) previous post(s). I meant to keep it in "edit" mode to work out WHY it bugged me, and well, it got out this time.

You've written a lot of what I used to write but stopped years ago.

That's on me.

A lot of it resonates and comes from the same place.

It's my frustration of not getting through in the wider World; being so God damn sensitive, smart and "successful" by society's measure, I see many same people who are in purgatory. They can help, but not everyone. The situations are complex and very, very, very rarely cut and dried as we'd like them to be.

I thank you all for listening, and your toleration.

I've been trying to understand what you mean better, but I'm having some trouble and didn't want to assume - what kind of stuff did you write but not anymore? Are we talking about the content, the manner of writing, the amount of words, something else? Can you be more specific? I don't want to "pretend" to talk, but I could use some guidance to better understand the issue you're seeing, and also your reasons for stopping whatever it was you used to do.

Also for the record, I personally don't consider myself "sensitive, smart, and successful" by society's measure. As far as I know, society doesn't really have a measure, and if it did, it would be something like idolizing fake famous personalities, so I wouldn't put any stock in "society's measure". But it does matter what effect my words/actions have on those close to me, and in general those they were meant for, like in this case, fellow forumites, because I don't seek to waste anyone's time. So in that spirit, please elaborate on the issues you're seeing, if you would. And I ask sincerely with intent to improve myself, not to rationalize, justify, or excuse anything.

 

[Azur]

But it does matter what effect my words/actions have on those close to me, and in general those they were meant for, like in this case, fellow forumites, because I don't seek to waste anyone's time

But you do. And don't. You quote neat things. You're a good recall assistant.

As far as I know, society doesn't really have a measure, and if it did, it would be something like idolizing fake famous personalities, so I wouldn't put any stock in "society's measure".

As am I.