Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

mugatea said:
I do try to eat as much fatty meat as I can but my diet could be better, I love bacon and eggs, pork chops etc, but at the moment I've been working 7 days a week and last week almost went into meltdown and I think that made me vurnerable. Anwyay, I've taken just under 2 grams of Vit C tablets and am feeling better at the moment and managed a few hours of work, but I'll see how I feel later and keep on taking the tabs.
The reason I asked about diet is because at the point that I'm at, if I have too many carbs (or even meat sometimes), I begin to feel as if I'm coming down with a cold. If I continue eating the same way, it gets progressively worse until I'm fluish. I'm basically just saying that diet affects us in many ways that we may still be unaware of. Of course, stress and sleep are important factors as well. This doesn't necessarily mean that one will never feel unwell but often there's a direct cause for it. In addition, if one isn't taking proper care of themselves, supplements only "fix" the symptoms as opposed to getting to the root of the problem - much like pharmaceuticals.

You said your diet could be better. Can you say how? I'm just attempting to narrow down any dietary causes before resorting to possible stress or sleep factors.
 
Thanks for you time to reply. I'm sure it is a bug cause I know the woman who passed it to me. Anyway, diet consists of usually bacon, eggs, pork chops, gammon steaks or something like that for breakfast, then a sandwhich for lunch then something like meat and potatoes for dinner and a few beers. Anyway, my brain has not been working today and I've taken about 17-18 grams of Vit C when I though I was just taking 1.7 - 1.8 grams. Anyway, just back from the toilet so I guess I've staurated the body. Not feeling too bad, at least compared to how I was this morning.
 
I'm glad you're feeling a tiny bit better at least. :)

If the sandwiches include bread, then it may be the gluten you're reacting to. The same goes with the beer. Potatoes are nightshades and are inflammatory as well. You may want to swap them for yams/sweet potatoes or some other vegetable and up your fats a bit. Lard is good and so is grass-fed butter if you can tolerate it.

edit: clarity
 
Just a warning to NOT increase your fat intake unless you are going to vastly reduce your carbs. Increased fat intake in combination with sandwiches and beer is a recipe for disaster.
 
Yeah, am feeling the need to radically change my diet, I have really cut out the bread so far, although not completely especially at lunch, but I want to. Thanks for your info.
 
mugatea said:
Yeah, am feeling the need to radically change my diet, I have really cut out the bread so far, although not completely especially at lunch, but I want to. Thanks for your info.

Just sort of cutting out the bread is not any better than just having a lot of it. Even a spec of gluten (this includes rice and all other grains) can cause havoc throughout your body, mind and emotions. It takes 6 months for it to clear out of your system.

So eating just a bit of gluten is like being just a bit pregnant. There is no such thing.

fwiw
 
I noticed that in her book Primal Body, Primal Mind, Nora G. also says that taking pure ascorbic acid is not that good.

Complexed vitamin C: Be sure the vitamin C you take is complexed with other cofactors (bioflavinoids). Taking ascorbic acid alone can lead to a depletion of other cofactors that ultimatley prevents the proper use of ascorbic acid and can actually leave you vitamin-C deficient! (Gedgaudas 2009, 319).

I also looked up the website for supplements that she recommends, _http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com

On their pages they have an article called "Vitamin-C vs. Ascorbic Acid". I'm not sure what to make of all this, but it sure seems like it would be safer to get that vitamin-C from natural sources instead of synthetic ascorbic acid.

_http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/whats_wrong_with_ascorbic_acid
Vitamin C “vs.” Ascorbic Acid
By Michael and Nora Wohlfeld

Have you ever gone shopping for a car and settled on buying a steering wheel? No one would consider a steering wheel to be a whole car, but it is part of a car. To take this a step further, imagine that you go from one parts store to another and pick up fenders at one place, engine parts, transmission parts, tires, wheels, and seats, all at different places. You take all of these home. Would you have a car? Obviously not. In order to have a car that runs effectively, you should purchase it from its creator: General Motors, Toyota, Ford, or whatever car manufacturer you choose. A car manufacturer has done the research and planning to ensure that the parts of a car are designed appropriately and assembled in the right way so that everything works together. The finished product will be a car that you can drive safely and efficiently.

This scenario may sound ridiculous but most people go to health food stores, drug stores and supermarkets and buy Vitamin C in the same way that one would go out shopping for a car and decide to buy only the steering wheel, thinking it was the whole car. Thousands of bottles of ascorbic acid are purchased everyday under the misguided assumption that ascorbic acid is the same as Vitamin C. In reality, ascorbic acid is an isolated nutrient that is part of Vitamin C but it is not the whole Vitamin C.

So you are getting cheated if you buy ascorbic acid thinking it is Vitamin C. But that might be the least of the consequences you may suffer. Studies over the last several years have demonstrated that people who take high doses of ascorbic acid actually put themselves at risk for a number of health challenges. One study demonstrated that doses of 500 mg a day or more of ascorbic acid increase the incidence of arterial plaque buildup. Another study indicated that gallstones are more likely to appear in those taking ascorbic acid. Are these backlash studies against the health food industry? No, they are legtimate studies. {References to those studies would've been nice!}

Wait a minute, you may be thinking. What about all the studies done by Linus Pauling and a multitude of other reputable researchers who have proven the health promoting benefits of Vitamin C and ascorbic acid? Let us put a little perspective on the subject.

Back in the 1930’s ascorbic acid was isolated out of little red peppers. The man who first performed this experiment was Dr. Albert Szent-Gyorgyi who won a Nobel Prize for his work. What he also found, which has mostly been ignored until recently, was that ascorbic acid was far more biologically available and active while it was still in the red pepper.

Scientist of the era of “Better Living Through Chemistry and Science” (which we have been experiencing for the last fifty years) decided to take the discoveries about Vitamin C and “improve” on Mother Nature. First they found that extracting ascorbic acid from natural foods, such as the red peppers, cabbage, cranberries, gooseberries, or acerola berries, is relatively expensive. Ascorbic acid can be created in the laboratory much less expensively (and of course much more profitably). Scientists discovered that they could take corn syrup, mix it with hydrochloric acid, and voila: ascorbic acid! (By the way, the corn is more likely than ever to be genetically modified and of course not organically grown.) Years later, scientists discovered what Dr. Szent-Györgyi had discovered about ascorbic acid, it is not as effective when detached from the whole food matrix! So they went about trying to determine what other factors there could be in the whole food that would make the ascorbic acid work better. First, they discovered the importance of bioflavonoids, so they figured out how to produce these synthetically in the laboratory, to be added to the ascorbic acid. Then they found that ascorbic acid worked better as a mineral ascorbate and they worked on that! Then they found that fat soluble ascorbic acid was superior, because it went directly to the liver vs. water soluble ascorbic acid. In fact if you put 100 mg of ascorbic acid in the body, within a few hours at least 90% of it would be excreted in the urine. If you put 10 times more into the body to account for a 90% loss it would cause diarrhea. So they experimented with various things and concluded that if you attach the ascorbic acid molecule to another molecule, in one case a metabolite, the ascorbic acid will stay in the body longer (they didn’t seem to care why it stayed in the body longer, but it stayed in the body longer and hopefully that was a good thing). Today there is a broad variety of ascorbic acid products with various things attached to them. With all this research, time, thought and dollars being put into creating a synthetic vitamin C, the fact remains that none of them can come even close to the potentials of what Mother Nature makes. One important factor that science has not been able to duplicate is the special kind of energy that holds living food together. Whether this energy is found in the enzymes or in the energy patterns of whole food structures, it is unlikely that science will ever be able to reproduce it in a laboratory. This may be one of several reasons why studies have shown that the body will absorb close to 100% of the vitamin C that is consumed as part of a whole food, whereas barely 10% of the “stripped down” ascorbic acid is absorbed. {References to those studies would've been nice!}

Again it is an issue of what we are willing to put into our bodies. Just as you would not shop for a car by buying the various pieces at different places, but look for a whole vehicle that has been synergistically put together by its creator/manufacturer, so Mother Nature has created foods for us that are complex and exactly designed to work in a synergistic way with the design of our bodies.
- Article End -
 
Aragorn said:
I noticed that in her book Primal Body, Primal Mind, Nora G. also says that taking pure ascorbic acid is not that good.

Complexed vitamin C: Be sure the vitamin C you take is complexed with other cofactors (bioflavinoids). Taking ascorbic acid alone can lead to a depletion of other cofactors that ultimatley prevents the proper use of ascorbic acid and can actually leave you vitamin-C deficient! (Gedgaudas 2009, 319).

There's a brand called Nutribiotic that sells powdered ascorbic acid with bioflavonoids. It's kind of green and tastes lemony.

I suspect that the bioflavonoids aid in absorption, though based on the reports of others here I'm not seeing a lot of evidence for ascorbic acid not being absorbed by the body or leaving one deficient by consuming it.

Aragorn said:
_http://www.radiantlifecatalog.com/whats_wrong_with_ascorbic_acid
Vitamin C “vs.” Ascorbic Acid
By Michael and Nora Wohlfeld

<snip>

The article you cited sounds like it easily could have been completely made up to me. Without references, their claims don't really have any weight in my mind.

Edit: Fixed quote
 
Aragorn said:
I noticed that in her book Primal Body, Primal Mind, Nora G. also says that taking pure ascorbic acid is not that good...

A number of key primal/paleo advocates seem to agree that you need to obtain nutrients from eating whole foods whenever possible, although doing that is admittedly difficult for many people. Supplements can help with stabilization when you are changing diets, but they are not in general the best ongoing solution.

Organic plant foods (preferably low-GI) can supply nutrients that may be low or absent in modern animal sources of the sort readily available to city dwellers, if they are grown in healthy soil, are very fresh, and especially if they are traditional foods prepared (if preparation is indicated) in traditional ways.

Supplements do have their place, especially when compensating for damage. I have several that I still take either because I have observed them to be helpful for specific problems or because they are strongly recommended in specific situations that apply to me, including buffered vitamin C. You do have watch though, for new information about whatever supplements you take that might contraindicate their use.
 
Have been following along here with interest and as for Vitamin C in many cases being derived from corn syrup, had read that somewhere with the intent to check here. Cross referencing, checked out an older article by Mercola interviewing Dr. Ronald Hunninghake, a claimed "internationally recognized expert on vitamin C" (searching here on the forum his name does not come up). Anyway, what he talks about is focused on Vitamin C IV treatments (for cancer) and the benefits and risks (pro-oxidant to G6PD-deficient people), however, he also talks about oral Vitamin C and here are a few things to add:

From 2010

_http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/20/ronald-hunninghake-on-vitamin-c.aspx

Mercola/Hunninghake said:
[...] What You Need to Know About Oral Vitamin C

The latest version of oral vitamin C supplementation is liposomal vitamin C, which I was introduced to by Dr. Thomas Levy, who is clearly one of the leaders in this area.
Liposomal vitamin C bypasses many of the complications of traditional vitamin C or ascorbic acid, and, according to Dr. Levy, you can achieve far higher intracellular concentrations this way.
"I'm all in favor of people trying this," Hunninghake says. "I think it can be used as an adjunct to I.V. vitamin C. Most people are only going to do I.V. vitamin C once or twice a week. So by doing the liposomal vitamin C, they can easily do 6 grams of liposomal vitamin C orally without a bit of gastrointestinal distress."
From Hunninghake's perspective, liposomal vitamin C may still be somewhat unproven, but is nonetheless quite safe.
There are also other forms of vitamin C on the market, such as buffered forms of sodium ascorbate. One example would be Ester-C. These buffered forms are also effective and do not cause the gastrointestinal distress associated with conventional ascorbic acid.
So far, I have recommended avoiding Ester-C, as I believe it's an oxidized form of vitamin C, which could do more harm than good. Dr. Hunninghake disagrees with my assessment, stating he's never seen any evidence indicating that Ester-C might be an oxidized form of vitamin C.
Based on Dr. Hunninghake's expertise in this area, I may reconsider my stance on Ester-C, although I still believe liposomal vitamin C has benefits that cannot be matched by buffered forms of vitamin C.

Dosing Frequency Can Also Make a Difference

Another factor to keep in mind when taking oral vitamin C is dosing frequency.
Dr. Steve Hickey, who wrote the book Ascorbate, has shown that if you take vitamin C frequently throughout the day, you can achieve much higher plasma levels. So even though your kidneys will tend to rapidly excrete the vitamin C, by taking it every hour or two, you can maintain a much higher plasma level than if you just dose it once a day (unless you're taking an extended release form of vitamin C).
There are also a number of people, primarily with the naturopathic perspective, who believe that in order to be truly effective, ascorbic acid alone is not enough -- you need the combination of the ascorbic acid with its associated micronutrients, such as bioflavonoids and other components.
Hunninghake agrees.
"There is no question that would be a better way to go. Any time you can [get it from] food, you're going to be better off… [F]ood is still the essential thing your body needs in order to get optimal cellular functioning.
But when you're sick, you can use trace nutrients in orthomolecular doses to achieve effects that you can't get from just food alone.
But in general, for people who are healthy and want to stay healthy, I would recommend using vitamin C that has bioflavonoids and other co-factors associated with it."
As far as getting your vitamin C from food, remember that the more colorful your diet, the higher it will be in bioflavanoids and cartenoids. Eating a colorful diet (i.e. plenty of vegetables) [this is a problem re lectin's] helps ensure you're naturally getting that phytonutrient synergism needed for maintaining health.
One of the easiest ways to ensure you're getting enough vegetables in your diet is by juicing them. For more information, please see my juicing page.
You can also squeeze some fresh lemon or lime juice into some water for a vitamin C rich beverage.
 
After a lot of research, the Vitamin C powder that I use is NutriBiotic - a pharmaceutical grade L-Ascorbic acid (Glutin and GMO-free) with antioxidant bioflaonoids (lemon - complex 50-usp). It is highly soluble, and quoted as tolerated by most highly allergic people.
 
Prodigal Son said:
After a lot of research, the Vitamin C powder that I use is NutriBiotic - a pharmaceutical grade L-Ascorbic acid (Glutin and GMO-free) with antioxidant bioflaonoids (lemon - complex 50-usp). It is highly soluble, and quoted as tolerated by most highly allergic people.

Looks like they have some decent C products, amongst others, with a few different options: _http://www.nutribiotic.com/about-us.html

Thanks PS.



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At NutriBiotic we stand committed to providing the very best for you and your family and are pleased to be able to offer you an ever-expanding range of quality nutritional supplements and personal care formulas developed with the intent of protecting and enhancing your health.
 
NutriBiotic sodium ascorbate is what I take, although in a fairly small dose. I have a risk of cancer recurrence and it is one of a number of precautions that I take. Here in the forum we have also discussed the possibility that uric acid may play a role similar to vitamin C for people on a ketogenic diet, and I have a sense (for myself, anyway) that large doses of vitamin C may not be necessary, let alone safe.
 

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