Ascorbic acid (vitamin C)

Data said:
Laura said:
Data said:
I tried this exactly as instructed here, but it did not work. Pure Ascorbic Acid powder with fresh 3% Hydrogen Peroxide liquid does not react at all -- not if concentrated, not if diluted, not when cold and not when hot, I tried all of these combinations.

Didn't I mention using baking soda which is what we did? It works fine.

I found out that Ascorbic acid + Sodium bicarbonate = Sodium ascorbate, which is different from Dehydroascorbic acid. However, both are a kind of oxidized form of Vit. C, and both have higher bio-availability.

I looked for information about a possible home-synthesis of Dehydroascorbic acid, but found nothing. The only reference to an easy way to make it yourself was the link posted earlier, which seems to come from Dr. Stephen Robert Martin, who died at age 62. But as I said, I had no success with Hydrogen Peroxide (maybe I did something wrong).

Same here Data. I can't find any easy way to make it. I also tried those directions using calcium ascorbate and H2O2 with no visible reaction between the two. I drank the result but had no discernible effect. I've also seen conflicting info on the stability of DHA which is probably just my lack of understanding what I'm reading.

Added: It looks like, based on what Psyche posted above, that trying to go direct with DHA is not necessary.

akenouchi et al. (1966) noted that about 80% of vitamin C administered to human subjects was eliminated as dehydroascorbic acid, the oxidized form of vitamin C. They concluded that the metabolic breakdown of vitamin C in humans does not necessarily have to follow the entire sequence down to oxalate. They also noted that as the vitamin C dose is increased, urinary excretion of diketogulonic acid increased. This is a clear indication that further oxidative breakdown of the diketogulonic acid to oxalate does not have to occur for a metabolic breakdown product of vitamin C to be excreted.

IOW - just let the body take care of it. Also good news that the ultimate breakdown product - oxalate - does not increase the risk of stones.
 
Some controversy thrown in by the astronomer researcher and his wife from the PerfectHealthDiet blog. Question is, are they even remotely aware of ketogenic diets been used to starve off cancer cells? I'm quoting some excerpts only:

_http://perfecthealthdiet.com/category/nutrients/vitamin-c/

Infection and Vitamin C

The immune response to infections generates reactive oxygen species, which oxidize vitamin C. Oxidation removes a hydrogen atom from vitamin C, turning it into “dehydroascorbic acid,” or DHAA. If DHAA remains in the blood, it degrades with a half-life of 6 minutes. [3]

Infections can cause vitamin C deficiency on any diet. During the “acute phase response” to infection or injury, vitamin C often becomes deficient.[...]

Insulin Dependence of Vitamin C Recycling

DHAA can be recycled back into vitamin C, but only inside cells.

In order to enter cells, DHAA needs to be transported by glucose transporters. GLUT1, GLUT3, and GLUT4 are the three human DHAA transporters; GLUT1 does most of the work. [6]

DHAA transport is crucial for brain vitamin C status. There is no direct transport of vitamin C into the brain, yet the brain is one of the most vitamin C-dependent tissues in the body. The brain relies entirely on GLUT1-mediated transport of DHAA from the blood for its vitamin C supply. Within the brain, DHAA is restored to vitamin C by glutathione.

Supplying DHAA to stroke victims (of the mouse persuasion) as late as 3 hours after the stroke can reduce the stroke-damaged volume by up to 95%:

DHA (250 mg/kg or 500 mg/kg) administered at 3 h postischemia reduced infarct volume by 6- to 9-fold, to only 5% with the highest DHA dose (P < 0.05). [7]

This is a fascinating reminder of the importance of vitamin C for wound repair and protection from injury.

Glucose transporters are activated by insulin. Thus, DHAA import into cells is increased by insulin, leading to more effective recycling of vitamin C [8]:

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Insulin and IGF-1 promote recycling of DHAA into ascorbate. Source.

Confirming the role of insulin in promoting vitamin C recycling, Type I diabetics (who lack insulin) have lower blood levels of vitamin C, higher blood levels of DHAA, increased urinary loss of vitamin C metabolites, and greater need for dietary vitamin C. [9, 10]

Now we have a mechanism by which zero-carb diets reduce vitamin C recycling: by lowering insulin levels they inhibit the transport of DHAA into cells, preventing its recycling into vitamin C. Instead, DHAA is degraded and excreted. As a result, vitamin C is lost from the body.

Glutathione and Vitamin C Recycling

Once inside the cell, DHAA is recycled back to ascorbate, mainly by glutathione inside mitochondria:

Dehydroascorbate, the fully oxidized form of vitamin C, is reduced spontaneously by glutathione, as well as enzymatically in reactions using glutathione or NADPH. [11]

A GLUT1 transporter on the mitochondrial membrane is needed to bring DHAA into mitochondria, possibly squaring the effect of insulin on vitamin C recycling.

Since glutathione recycles vitamin C, glutathione deficiency is another possible cause of vitamin C deficiency.

Glutathione is recycled by the enzyme glutathione peroxidase, a selenium-containing enzyme whose abundance is sensitive to selenium status. One difficulty with zero-carb diets is that they seem to deplete selenium levels.

Selenium deficiency is a common side effect of ketogenic diets. Some epileptic children on ketogenic diets have died from selenium deficiency! [12]

So here we have a second mechanism contributing to the development of scurvy on a zero-carb diet. The diet produces a selenium deficiency, which produces a glutathione deficiency, which prevents DHAA from being recycled into vitamin C, which leads to DHAA degradation and permanent loss of vitamin C.

Conclusion

Zero-carb dieters are at high risk for vitamin C deficiency, glutathione deficiency, and selenium deficiency. Anyone on a zero-carb diet should remedy these by supplementation.

These deficiencies are exacerbated by chronically low insulin levels. Insulin helps recycle vitamin C, which supports glutathione status. Lack of insulin increases vitamin C degradation and loss.

The failure of the body to efficiently recycle vitamin C and maintain antioxidant stores on a zero-carb diet is evidence of an evolutionary maladaption to the zero-carb diet.
 
Hmmm... It may be that including small portions of properly prepared (soaked an dried) raw/organic nuts in the KD is a good thing - like brazil nuts for a boost of selenium and magnesium.
 
Psyche said:
Some controversy thrown in by the astronomer researcher and his wife from the PerfectHealthDiet blog. Question is, are they even remotely aware of ketogenic diets been used to starve off cancer cells?...

Possibly, remotely, but I just scanned through the ketogenic diet chapter of the book and didn't see it mentioned, though benefits for diabetes and cardiovascular disease were. There may be something about it somewhere in the book, but it didn't stand out when I looked, and I don't directly remember anything.

The blog you quoted from is part of the "Danger of Zero-Carb Diets" series, where he justifies "safe starches" and a higher level of carbohydrate intake (~50 g/d for a ketogenic diet; otherwise several times higher). That's the part of his work that many VLC paleo people don't appreciate.

Jaminet himself experimented with a "zero carb" ketogenic diet at one time, and he says it eventually made him ill. He ascribes the problem to a hypothetical "glucose deficiency" and other nutritional issues (as can be seen in your quote). I believe him when he says that this happened, and that some of his readers have described similar issues, but I don't see where he has really dug down to the root of the problem.
 
LQB said:
Hmmm... It may be that including small portions of properly prepared (soaked an dried) raw/organic nuts in the KD is a good thing - like brazil nuts for a boost of selenium and magnesium.

Well, it would be taken care of with sea food and bone broth, so I don't their hypothesis flies.

As for stimulating some insulin so that it can transport dehydroascorbate into the brain, yes, that seems to be the case. But that doesn't mean that the protein intake won't do this job. It is not like we have 0 insulin levels circulating in our bodies. If we measure our blood sugar levels, it won't be 0 either. So, I'm not convinced.

Perhaps for some people's metabolism, some 10 to 20 grams of carbs are needed to have an optimal metabolism? For others it is 0 carbs? Or perhaps a cup of tea will do the trick better. Either or, a pretty strict diet ketogenically speaking shouldn't impair insulin so as to make not work at all. On the contrary, insulin sensitivity improves and it works much better. Perhaps this guy's symptoms might had indicated some troubleshooting during the transition that could have been remedied with bone broth.
 
Megan said:
Jaminet himself experimented with a "zero carb" ketogenic diet at one time, and he says it eventually made him ill. He ascribes the problem to a hypothetical "glucose deficiency" and other nutritional issues (as can be seen in your quote). I believe him when he says that this happened, and that some of his readers have described similar issues, but I don't see where he has really dug down to the root of the problem.

He describes his symptoms in the parts I didn't quote on the same post: _http://perfecthealthdiet.com/category/nutrients/vitamin-c/

Seems to me he was quick to blame it on "scurvy" when it could have been that he didn't do the diet properly.
 
New article on Hydrogen Peroxide which I put in its own thread,
http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=5679.msg393543#msg393543

...but there's a segment about Vitamin C that I will include here.

Vitamin C

The ultimate agent to treat cancer would be cytotoxic only to tumor cells and non-toxic to normal cells. Vitamin C has been theorized to meet these requirements but has been criticized by conventional medicine in favor of more powerful and toxic chemotherapeutic agents. 144 Riordan found that at a dose of 7.04 mg/dl, vitamin C is completely toxic to cancer cells while being completely non-toxic to normal cells. Only at eight times the dose needed to kill cancer cells does vitamin C become toxic to normal cells. This reveals its considerable clinical potential. 145

Metabolically, vitamin C produces dehydroascorbate (DHA), an oxidant. Normal cells take in DHA, which is then converted to ascorbate and H2O2, by an oxidation/reduction (redox) electron transfer. Benade et al at the National Cancer Institute found that, in Ehrlich ascites carcinoma cell cultures, vitamin C selectively destroyed cancer cells by generating excess intracellular H2O2. 146

It has been observed for a long time that ascorbic acid and ascorbic acid salts are preferentially toxic to tumor cells, which were thought to be related to intracellular generation of hydrogen peroxide. 147-149 It is theorized that cancer cells are less able than normal cells to neutralize H2O2 because they are deficient in catalase. Dr. Agus et al reported that cancer cells have extra glucose channels that rapidly bring in glucose and excess DHA. 150

Cancer cells are defective in that they cannot fully distinguish between glucose and DHA. This may explain why vitamin C is safe in large doses for normal cells but toxic to cancer cells. The good results of Cameron and Hoffer with humans confirm the National Cancer Institute lab tests.

Mark Levine’s group published a study on line for PNAS on September 12, 2005, with results showing that, “Pharmacologic ascorbic acid concentrations selectively kill cancer cells: Action as a pro-drug to deliver hydrogen peroxide to tissues.” Human lymphoma cells were studied because of their sensitivity to ascorbate (EC50 of 0.5 mM) and suitability for evaluating mechanisms. Extracellular, but not intracellular, ascorbate resulted in cell death, which occurred by apoptosis and pyknosis/necrosis. Cell death was independent of metal chelators and absolutely dependent on H2O2 formation. 151

Investigators stated that it was not known why it killed cancer cells but not normal cells. They felt that it was possible the hydrogen peroxide caused damage that was repaired in normal cells but not in sensitive cancer cells. The main mechanism thought to be responsible for this is the lack or relative deficiency of catalase in tumor cells. 152

Therefore, it takes a smaller amount of H2O2 to reach or “trigger” apoptosis. This is the point of selectivity for toxicity to cancer cells, wherein there is no harm to normal cells. Interestingly, there is a reported 10- to 100-fold greater content of catalase in normal cells than in tumor cells. 146

Humans lack gulonolactone oxidase, which is necessary to synthesize vitamin C and H2O2 is produced as a by-product in the process. It is incredibly ironic, that in the synthesis of one of the most touted of all of the antioxidants, ascorbate, that “dreaded H2O2” is generated stochiometrically on a molecule per molecule basis. This illustrates the fact that H2O2 is very important in maintaining homeostasis within the cell and as a secondary messenger and that antioxidants and prooxidants may be considered to be flip sides of the same redox coin.

H2O2 Induced Apoptosis in Human Gastric Cancer Cells

Investigations were made into the molecular mechanism by which ascorbic acid (AA) induces apoptosis in human gastric cancer cells, AGS cells. High concentration (more than 5mM) of AA increased cellular iron uptake by increasing transferrin receptor (TfR) expression and induced AGS cell apoptosis which was inhibited by catalase. Interestingly, p38 mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) inhibitor inhibited the upregulation of TfR and increased cell survival by AA. TfR-siRNA-transfected cells reduced apoptosis by AA. H2O2 increased TfR expression in AGS cells. Taken together, investigators concluded that high concentration of AA, through H2O2, induces apoptosis of AGS cells by p38-MAPK-dependent upregulation of TfR. 153
 
About Ketosis and AA protocols.

For the full article + all the activated links click here.

How Low-Carb Ketosis + AA + Antibiotic Fats + Nutrition + Anti-Inflammatories Potentiate Antibiotic Protocols:

In order to maximize the kill percentage one needs a protocol that has multiple factors. The following conceptual formulas illustrate how the combined protocol factors work in theory.

The combined survival fraction is the product of the survival fractions of the several lethal elements.

If kill percentage is K%, define kill fraction as 0 < Kf <1 by K%/100.

Survival fraction: Sf = 1- Kf and Kf = 1- Sf.

Sf = (Sf1) x (Sf2) x (Sf3) x (Sf4) x….

Sf = (1-Kf1) x (1-Kf2) x (1-Kf3) x (1-Kf4) x….

By using multiple antibiotics or adjuvants that have different principles of operation one can multiply the effectiveness, and reduce the chance of developing antibiotic resistance.

SfAntibiotics = (SfAntibiotic1) x (SfAntibiotic2) x (SfAntibiotic3) x (SfAntibiotic4) x ….. Combined Antibiotics

SfAntibiotics = (1-KfAntibiotic1) x (1-KfAntibiotic2) x (1-KfAntibiotic3) x (1-KfAntibiotic4) x …..

SfTotal = (SfAntibiotics) x (SfAntibiotic-Fats) x (SfAA) x (SfAnti-Inflammatories) x ….. Combined Protocol

SfTotal = (1-KfAntibiotics) x (1-KfAntibiotic-Fats) x (1-KfAA) x (1-KfAnti-Inflammatories) x …..

S%Total = 100 x SfTotal

In order to minimize the survival percentage one uses more factors and tries to minimize each survival factor. Where replication occurs one tries to block the success of it, by targeting the factors leading to its success and reducing the odds by functional changes in the in vivo environment. One kill factor is Ketosis. John Ely describes the mechanism of glucose ascorbate antagonism (GAA) and Aggressive Glycemic Control (AGC). See note below: 14

Many other Kfs are Anti-microbial antibiotics. One is sugar or nutrient starvation. One is tryptophan starvation. 15 One is molecular spoofing. One is neutralizing a spreading factor. One is microbe <to/from> immune-cell signal blocking, by immuno-suppression. Several are a mineral antagonist, salt/silver/zinc. Many are eating anti microbial foods. Many are vitamin and nutritional deficiency related. Many are spices and herbs like olive and aloe vera. There will be more specific new ones that we will discover in the future, and old forgotten ones we will find in the various nations’ medical archives and learn how to implement.

AA (Ascorbic Acid = vitamin-C) Actions:


AA has two effects. One is to make it more difficult for the invaders to penetrate their target cells that they use for replication. The other acts inside the cell when ROS- oxidized AA kills the invaded cell with its compromised mitochondria. The effect of anti inflammatories is also multiple. One is to reduce the signaling of the microbe to the target immune cells that they would invade. This slows the replication. Another is to turn off the generation of the ROS that converts antioxidant AA to the oxidized for Dehydro AA (DHA). A third is to reduce the formation of plaques, granulomas, lesions, and calcium nodules that wall off and protect the microbes from the antibiotic.

Reactions are competitive and depend on concentrations:


Chemical reactions depend on the concentration of the various molecules. The uptakes into cells for sugar and for DHA are competitive. If the sugar concentration is much greater than that of AA then most of the uptake will be of sugar, feeding the microbe cellular invaders. If the blood is starved for sugar and DHA is present in high concentration, then the cells are more likely to uptake the DHA. This is to say that sugar interferes with the action of AA (= DHA) acting as a initiator of invaded-cell death. So the effectiveness of AA is improved by the low sugar Ketosis mode. It is worsened by hypoglycemia and diabetes.

Similarly, the action of the Antibiotic fats, the monoglycerides of the saturated tropical oils of the palm plants are in proportion to their concentration. Since the nation’s diet prefers some fats above others, starving the body of saturated palm fats reduces several natural antibiotics that have been shown to help control both bacteria and viruses. COPD and bacteria caused plaque is likely to be made worse by too little palmitic and lauric fatty acids. The attempt to reduce cholesterol is misguided and it leads to labeling saturated fats as bad when the opposite is true.

Jarish Herxheimer reaction (Herx):

Antibiotics kill cellular microbes and create Jarish Herxheimer reaction with reactive oxygen species ROS: H202 and NO. When active vitamin C (Ascorbic Acid) molecule meets ROS molecule they react to disable the oxide and this makes the oxide/oxidizing form of AA, called Dehydro AA (DHA). The antioxidant, active form of AA neutralizes toxins of the Herx reaction and it is a powerful histamine reducer. As ROS levels drop the histamine levels also drop. “Large” amounts of AA are eaten frequently, Start with 3-6+ grams as often as every two hours. Effective dosage for a Herx condition is about 24 grams per day or more. Google [Cathcart Titration to Bowel Tolerance].

How to tell the AA dosage you need:


If your gut does not get loose, you need to take more AA. If gut gets loose from eating the AA, you are taking too much or too often. If you are sick, with high levels of AA intake, you should feel a reduction of the feelings of sickness. If sickness symptoms come back: pain, itch, ague, etc, then you are out of AA and you need to eat more of it, immediately. Since AA is stored in the lenses of the eyes the degree of focus accuracy may fluctuate with systemic AA depletion. Some persons know that when their eyes go out of focus, it indicates that they are low on AA and need to eat more.

You can increase AA intake and effectiveness by making and using Liposomal AA. Combine powdered AA, Water, Lecithin, [and coconut oil] in a blender. Following this an ultrasonic cleaner is used to micro-homogenize the AA. This makes oral Liposomal AA which is more effective than IV AA. One gram of this AA is said to be equivalent to 7 grams of sodium ascorbate IV AA. The combined encapsulated AA passes thru the gut more readily and it also is more bioactive in the body. See the video: How to make Liposomal AA. See the list of all the Vitamin C Foundation Videos.

Microbes need sugar and body can work without much sugar at all:


Normal body cells do not need much sugar for energy; they can also use fats and proteins. But cancer cells, microbes and infected cells need a lot of various microbe specific sugars. AA does not get imported into cells very much, but DHA goes into cells in very much greater amounts. But this happens only if you are eating a lot of active AA to start with, and are not eating much sugar.


Ketosis: how to induce it and test for it:

Benign ketosis (<15-30 grams of carbohydrates per day), see Atkins Diet induction phase; it really lowers blood sugars. You can get ketone test strips at any pharmacy to test if you are in the ketosis state. You may notice your breath smells like nail polish remover. This is because you have a little acetone in your blood. Acetone is in nail polish remover.

With ketosis: Liver stops converting glucose to fats for storage. Liver switches to use fats and your cells’ mitochondria in the Krebs cycle burns the fats extracted from your blood. Lipid HDL and LDL drop into the “normal” range. Ketosis starves system of sugars. Starches we eat are converted to sugars. So ketonically low carbs means very low sugar in our blood.

Microbes invade cells: red and white blood cells; epithelial and tissue cells; especially, they invade immune cells chemically-signaled to kill and eat them.

Microbes in chronic, persistent infections invade your epithelial cells and your immune cells, among others, in certain organs that specific microbes have matching molecular “hooks” to attach to. They use hyaluronic acid Lysase, an enzyme that dissolves your cell walls, to penetrate your cells and to inject their DNA or RNA into their target cells.

Inside invaded cells, microbial genetic recipes cause the mitochondria to work differently and to dysfunction. The microbe parts steal CoQ10 the energy oxidizer molecule and sugar from your cells and you feel tired. If you take more Co enzyme Q10 to make up for this you will feel almost normal. The invaders need sugar and CoQ10. But your cells can live by converting Fats and Proteins into the acetyl CoA that is actually the fuel. The invaders --- bacteria, viruses and fungal forms eventually replicate and kill the cell to get out. We have seen striking pictures of their exit.

How Ketosis changes the cells’ functions:

Ketosis: In the absence of sugars, DHA (oxidizing form of vitamin C) takes sugar’s place. This means that an oxidizing molecule is imported and the microbe components try to use it as fuel. This does not work and it kills the mitochondria and the infected cells and the microbes that import it. The invaded cells’ microbes’ parts can work with certain sugars, but cannot burn fat or protein as well. So the cell dies.

Cell Wall Deficient (CWD) bacterial invaders and infected cells need lots of sugar. Soft drinks and refined starches provide this. So see the Dr. Atkins diet materials for the low carbohydrate diet’s induction stage rules to make sure you have somewhat less than 15 to 30 grams of carbohydrates and are not eating any of the forbidden food elements or eating too much.

You need enough DHA to act as if it was sugar, and the cells normally metabolize a very large number of grams of sugar. So you need to swallow the AA as if it were food. We usually do not eat this much of vitamin C, by far. We should not get it as a food component (like fruit juice) because it comes with too much sugar. But if you think of pure AA as a sugar replacement food that you need, then 30 to 150 grams per day of AA is not much if it were meat or candy.

CWD bacteria of various species and strains prefer strain-specific sugar molecules. High Fructose Corn Sugar, (HFCS) is a mix of several sugars and nourishes most varieties of CWD bacteria. There is a lot of HFCS in soda drinks and in junk food. Instead, your diet should be meats, fats, and natural fibrous vegetables that have low sugar and starch content.

See the web for Atkins Diet recipes and foods and how to limit the amounts you can eat. You must maintain a strict low carbohydrate diet, to stay in ketosis mode. No bread, potatoes, rice, pasta, breakfast foods, pastries, pies, donuts, corn, carrots, yams, starchy beans, pasta, etc. Perhaps your intake is about 500 calories/day. You can eat meat, fats, un-breaded fish, shellfish, a little cheese, but no milk, buttermilk, cottage cheese and ice cream. No condiments that contain sugar. Read all the labels and insure the number of grams of carbs is in the range for the Atkins diet induction. You can stop the ketosis after your symptoms stop and you no longer need to lose weight. When on Atkins diet, vitamin supplementation is necessary.

How cells use energy: Citric Acid (Krebs) Cycle

Cells use a molecule called ATP for energy. It is made in a recycling reaction loop called the Krebs cycle (Aka, citric acid cycle) that uses as its “food” a super versatile enzyme, Acetyl-CoA, made from Fats, Carbohydrates or Proteins by a process called catabolism by mitochondria in cells. In the liver, with ketosis ongoing the cells convert fats to glucose, the primary sugar the body cells need. Too much dietary citric acid may promote bacterial growth.

Catabolism takes place in cells’ mitochondria to convert fats and produce Acetyl-CoA. Then the Krebs cycle reactions use Acetyl-CoA to make ATP, the cell energizer fuel that drives all the other cells’ anabolic, energy-consuming reactions.

In the mitochondria, CoQ10 is the oxidizer and Acetyl-CoA is the fuel and NADH (Coenzyme-1) is the helper enzyme, so called spark plug. So in all cells from muscles to brain, deficiency of CoQ10 will limit the cells’ energy use. Your body needs about 500 mg of CoQ10 per day, made by the mevalonate chemical pathway, where cholesterol, CoQ10 and Heme is made.

When you get older you do not make enough CoQ10 and may need supplements. If you have chronic intracellular infections, and we all do, then you need CoQ10 supplements. The mevalonate pathway is blocked by statins. Statins really starve the body’s cellular (nerve and muscle) regeneration process by limiting cholesterol, CoQ10 and Heme, a component of hemoglobin. Heme is used in blood cells to transport oxygen throughout the body. Cholesterol is the source of our sex hormones and is needed to keep nerves and muscles healthy and to rebuild them as needed.

So if you starve the carbs, then the Acetyl CoA fuel sources become fats and protein, and your cells work. But microbes prefer non-glucose sugars so ketosis starves them and they suck up DHA that is an oxidizer, not a food. That further starves the cell and oxidizes the mitochondria. This kills the invaders’ CWD L-forms and also kills the invaded cells that have ingested microbial DNA. This blocks intra-cellular microbe replication. Because of their sugar preferences certain microbes are more sensitive to ketosis than others. So avoiding of HFCS and dietary sugars is best.

Nutrition Factors:

According to Mary Enig: The cause of heart disease is excess refined vegetable oils and hydrogenated (Trans) fats; excess refined carbohydrates: sugar and white flour; mineral deficiencies: magnesium, iodine, selenium; deficiencies of natural unrefined vitamins: A-complex/B-complex/C; deficiencies of antioxidants like vitamin E complex; and the disappearance of dietary antimicrobial fats: animal fats (butter) and tropical oils: coconut, red palm and palm kernel oils.

One could also add Lysine, Proline and Carnitine deficiencies. AA + Lysine è Carnitine, needed for muscle and tissue health. Lysine is anti viral, especially for the human Herpesvirus family: HHV1&2 (HSV=cold sores), CMV, EBV, H. zoster = Chicken pox and shingles, etc. L-arginine promotes HHV growth. See Pauling protocol for heart disease. Excess lysine and low arginine spoofs the microbes molecule building process.

Tropical Oils contain: Saturated fatty acids---Lauric, Palmitic, Caprilyic, Myristic; CoQ10; tocopherols and tocotrienols (vitamin E variants); and antiviral vitamin A variants. Our packaged vitamins A & E are monomolecular not a natural mix and do not have all the many process-dependent, unique shapes we need. Natural, gently refined tropical oils are not heated excessively, not bleached, not oxidized and not hydrogenated; they are made that way for the nutrition trade. They contain the wide spectrum of molecular shapes you may need in ways that go beyond our simplistic theoretical knowledge of their actions.

The saturated fatty acids do not oxidize easily or turn rancid rapidly. Rancid fats are toxic. If rancid or hydrogenated (trans) fats were used to make cholesterol some resultant molecules produced would be toxic to nerves. Statins cause cholesterol starvation, opening the way for toxic oil variant molecules to take the place of the missing cholesterol, leading to nerve and muscle cell dysfunctions and cell replacement molecule errors that shorten our life by increasing our aging rate.

Tropical oils are very readily used as fuel, they pass the blood brain barrier, and they dissolve the CWD membrane to kill CWD forms and viruses system wide. Monoglyceride forms of Lauric, Caprilyic, Palmitic, Myristic are antimicrobial. Lauric and Palmitic are most essential to systemic anti microbial health. Daily 2 to 3 tablespoons of tropical fats: coconut, red palm oil, and palm kernel oil or a mix of the three to get all the natural nutrients with the widest range in molecular shapes. We will use the active shapes and burn the others. A case history below shows Alzheimer’s improvements.

Antiviral Omega 3 oils are also essential to health. They come from fish and cod liver oil, along with vitamin A. They normalize and lower excessively high allergic immune responses. Omega 6 oils are also essential. However, Omega 6 oils may add to inflammation and have antimicrobial effects. This can be used to enhance the microbe killing factors. Most doctors avoid prescribing the O-6 oils because of the induced Herx like immune upsurge. Instead of avoiding O-6 they should be in the diet and the AA anti oxide intake should be increased to neutralize the increased inflammation. The best way to get the natural O-6 (9%) and O-9 (Oleic=~83%) is from natural foods (sunflower seeds) rather than extracted refined oils. One effective way is from eating a modest amount of sunflower (O-6) and flax (O-3) seeds as a snack, several times a day without missing a day. See nutritional components of sunflower seeds. See Case History sunflower seeds at the end of the list of personal case histories.

Vitamins A, B6, B12, C, D, E are related to dependencies and infections. Vaccine induced high vitamin A dependency has been demonstrated as an allergy-related cofactor in Autism. Active allergic responses rapidly deplete ascorbic acid (AA) which is vitamin C. Vitamin D is essential to immune system activity. Too low vitamin D contributes to a depressed immune system.

Herx Management:

Because this protocol depends on ROS to convert AA to DHA, totally suppressing the antibiotic initiated Herx reactions by use of immune-suppressing drugs defeats the purpose of generating DHA to kill infected cells. However for very severe inflammatory conditions, the following measures can help to reduce the severity of the Herx reactions. Cortisone and prednisone can reduce inflammation, granulomas, scleroses, lesions, plaques and microbe (viral) replication. Benicar, an angiotensin release blocker (ARB) can block the cytokine cascade inflammation flare and allow increased antibiotic dosages. TNF blockers also stop inflammation. Granuloma formation walls off TB bacteria and protects them from antibiotics. So anti inflammatories functionally and statistically potentiate antibiotic actions.

During the Ketonic protocol, eating patient specific allergy-producing foods, like peanuts or other foods known to turn on immune system may be used if the Herx reaction does not rise to the level needed to convert AA to DHA. An experienced physician who will work closely with you over the period of administration, best can handle managing the proper balance of inflammation and immune suppression. Fire and forget is not the mode of treatment. In the absence of the physician, every hour, you have to learn to listen to the feelings of pain, tingling and irritation to sense the action of the foods and medicines and learn which combinations improve things and which changes make things worse.

Time cycling the antibiotics:

Time cycling the antibiotic is useful because the microbes CWD forms switch forms within minutes in vitro and in vivo to protect themselves from the antibiotic. Lyme CWD forms roll up in tight balls, then unroll later. If a two-day on/off/on/off antibiotic cycle is used each cycle reduces the population by an assumed 30%, after 20 cycles (40 days), the Sf20-cycles = 1/(1-.3)20 = .0006.

When this is combined with other protocol elements like Lauric acid to attack microbes’ membranes and palmitic in the lungs to reduce immune signaling, the total reduction can be dramatic.

Immune suppression and antibiotics work well together because the sclerotic plaques wall off the microbes and protect them. The immune suppression increases the kill percentages and speeds. Prednisone or TNF blockers alone used as an antibiotic adjuvant with conventional TB antibiotics showed a reduction of relapse rate from ~30% to ~2%.

A side comment on histamine:


Antihistamines might seem to be helpful in severe Herx reactions, but with the high AA blood levels of this protocol, there should be very little histamine produced. High histamine is a result of the combination of AA depletion and NOS, not a cause of it. With high ROS and not on the high AA protocol, toxins and allergies and acute infections cause AA depletion. When AA levels get below .7 mg/100 ml the histamine levels start to increase exponentially. See the graph in this hyperlink. Histamine is toxic in high levels. Histamine food poisoning (e.g, from decomposed tuna or certain bacteria in cheese) is evidenced by a red skin flush over most of the upper body.

[...]

Full article
 
Data said:
Pure Ascorbic Acid powder with fresh 3% Hydrogen Peroxide liquid does not react at all -- not if concentrated, not if diluted, not when cold and not when hot, I tried all of these combinations.

Of course I was wrong. I found a study that hints at this, but it is not available for download:

_http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsfa.2740121009/abstract said:
Abstract
Hydrogen peroxide-induced oxidation of ascorbic acid was found to be catalysed by several fruit juices. Products exhibiting peroxidatic activity were passion fruit, orange and pineapple juices, papaya and guava purees, liquid coconut products, and bottled (pasteurised) apple juice. A mathematical relationship between logarithm of juice dilution to initial reaction rate was developed. Passion fruit juice exhibited the highest peroxidatic activity on the basis of calculated intercepts and slopes. Several other fresh juices exhibited peroxidatic activity. Although the fruit juices reduce the activity in Fenton's reaction with ascorbic acid as substrate, the oxidising activity of the juices may not be a Fenton reaction. Coconut skim milk showed the highest inhibitory effect and passion fruit juice was second highest. Mechanisms for the inhibitory effect are considered.

Another item:

_http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1965Sci...150.1589G said:
Fast Reactions of Ascorbic Acid and Hydrogen Peroxide in Ice, a Presumptive Early Environment

Grant, Norman H.; Alburn, Harvey E.
Science, Volume 150, Issue 3703, pp. 1589-1590
Nonenzymatic decomposition of hydrogen peroxide proceeded more rapidly in ice than in liquid water. At 5 × 10-7M ferric chloride or 10-8M cupric chloride, breakdown of hydrogen peroxide was significant at -11° and -18° but negligible at +1°C. Ascorbic acid oxidation was faster in ice both with or without added metal ion. Nonparallel effects of metals and pH indicate mechanism changes in ice.

This one mentions Dehydroascorbic acid as reaction product of Ascorbic acid and H2O2: The Oxidation of Ascorbic Acid by Hydrogen Peroxide. Catalysis by Ethylenediaminetetraacetato-Iron(III)

This links seems to be down: _http://libra.msra.cn/Publication/36402308/ascorbic-acid-oxidation-by-hydrogen-peroxide
 
I was just Googling around a bit and I learned that
[list type=decimal]
[*]Vitamin C is manufactured using fermentation
[*]Fermenting plant foods high in C is a way of obtaining vitamin C
[/list]

I don't see any indication so far that our gut bacteria could make it directly, but cooking destroys it and apparently fermentation can avoid that problem.

The articles I have found so far mostly focus on what can come from fermenting in a jar. What I really want to know, however, is what can be produced from fermenting in the gut? How much is even known about it? I am not going to be able to answer that tonight. And I don't know if there is anything out there about gut fermentation and ketogenic diet. We've see how ketosis "changes things." It might be interesting to explore.
 
Found yet another interesting article about the interaction of vitamin C with nicotinic acid (I happen to take both at the same time ...)

Source: _http://www.futurederm.com/2012/10/25/should-niacinamide-and-l-ascorbic-acid-be-used-together/

Should Niacinamide and L-Ascorbic Acid Be Used Together?

These days, while it’s (more) common knowledge that acidic compounds like hydroxy acids should not be used with retinol, the interaction between two other prominent and well-studied compounds: niacinamide and L-ascorbic acid, is rarely discussed. Ironically, along with hydroxy acids and retinoids, these two compounds to a great extent constitute and represent four of the five main classes of ingredients that should be included in everyone’s ideal skin care routine; the fifth class being sunscreen of course!

I’m surprised that this interaction hasn’t gotten more press! Therefore, let’s dive right in.

What Exactly Is This interaction?

L-ascorbic acid is the naturally-occurring form of vitamin C, while niacinamide is the –amide form of niacin or vitamin B3 as discussed in a previous post. When mixed together in aqueous solutions (since both are water-soluble vitamins), they form a 1:1 complex that turns the solution yellow, rendering both compounds useless. This complexation may be the result of a donor-acceptor interaction between L-ascorbic acid (donor) and niacinamide (acceptor), which may be similar to the interaction that occurs between tryptophan and niacinamide.

Furthermore, in the presence of UV light and oxygen, which seems likely since antioxidants (such L-ascorbic acid and niacinamide) are frequently and complementarily used with sunscreens to enhance UV protection (and since oxygen is everywhere), the two compounds may even generate the very reactive hydrogen peroxide compound through a 4-step chain reaction.

Now, the amount of complexation is pH dependent, with the maximum value occurring at a pH of 3.8. And since L-ascorbic acid requires a pH of 3.5 or lower in order to be protonated and absorbed into the skin, the likelihood of this interaction occurring and its consequent impacts are significant.

So don’t mix the two compounds!


Does This Occur with Vitamin C Derivatives?

Most if not all vitamin C derivatives such as ascorbyl tetraisopalmitate, magnesium ascorbyl phosphate, and ascorbyl glucoside, have to convert to L-ascorbic acid in order to have vitamin effects on the skin. This conversion process takes place after the derivates have penetrated into the skin. (Wouldn’t it be nice if they converted in the bottle?!) And because this conversion takes place within the skin, the pH of the surrounding solution or environment is no longer very low. However, the pH of skin is still acidic.

Therefore, interactions between any converted L-ascorbic acid and niacinamide are still possible. Keep in mind that the rates of conversion and penetration of the various derivatives can vary drastically, meaning that some may be more prone to complexation than others.

Fortunately, the pro-oxidative tendencies of hydrogen peroxide can be ignored in this scenario, since its formation is not possible in the absence of UV light.


So What Should I Do?

I think the more appropriate question is, “What should I NOT do?”

Clearly, it is my recommendation to NOT use niacinamide and L-ascorbic acid together, since even in the absence of UV light would have an overall negative effect compared to when the two compounds are used separately. In the presence of UV light, the two compounds can form the pro-oxidative ROS-generator hydrogen peroxide, in addition to the 1:1 complex discussed above.

And while this interaction with niacinamide was only documented with L-ascorbic acid, it seems logical to suggest that it may also occur (albeit to a lesser extent) with vitamin C derivatives since they convert to L-ascorbic acid after penetrating into the skin.

Now, if you feel compelled and that you MUST use these two compounds together, try to use them at nighttime and/or wait 30 minutes between application to allow for the pH of the skin to return to its (more) natural state.

I hope this was a fun post and feel free to ask any questions down below or on my blog! And if you’ve been using both of these compounds together, don’t be afraid to share your (old) routine!
 
Here is an update that adds much perspective and synthesizes quite a lot of the material quoted so far (regarding cancer):

Antioxidants Prevent Cancer and Some May Even Cure It

http://www.sott.net/article/257074-Antioxidants-Prevent-Cancer-and-Some-May-Even-Cure-It

It is widely accepted that antioxidants in the diet and supplements are one of the most effective ways of preventing cancer. Nevertheless, Dr. James Watson has recently suggested that antioxidants cause cancer and interfere with its treatment. James Watson is among the most renowned of living scientists. His work, together with that of others (Rosalind Franklin, Raymond Gosling, Frances Crick, and Maurice Wilkins) led to the discovery of the DNA double helix in 1953. Although his recent statement on antioxidants is misleading, the mainstream media has picked it up, which may cause some confusion.

Antioxidants: What's Going On

Dr. Watson claims to have discovered that antioxidants promote the growth of late stage metastatic cancers. He says that this is "among my most important work since the double helix." [1] We agree that the finding is fundamentally important, although it was not uniquely Watson's discovery. Rather, it is standard orthomolecular medicine and has been known for years. [2,3] Within the body, antioxidant levels act as a signal, controlling cell division. In healthy cells and benign tumors, oxidants tend to increase cell proliferation, whereas antioxidants inhibit it. By contrast, the malignant tumor environment can be so strongly oxidizing that it is damaging and triggers cell death by apoptosis. In this case, antioxidants may help tumor cells proliferate and survive, by protecting the cells against oxidation and stimulating the malignancy to grow. For this reason, antioxidants may sometimes be contraindicated for use with malignant tumors, although there are particular exceptions to this.

And Oxidants?

The balance between oxidants and antioxidants is a key issue in the development of cancer, as has been known for decades. Watson appears to be behind the times in his appreciation of nutritional medicine and, surprisingly, to have misunderstood the processes of oxidation and reduction as applied to cancer. He correctly asserts that reactive oxygen species are a positive force for life; this is basic biology. They are also involved in aging, chronic illness, and cancer. Oxidants also cause free radical damage, thus the body generates large amounts of antioxidants to prevent harm and maintain health.

Back in the 1950s Dr. Reginald Holman treated the implanted tumors of experimental rats, by adding a dilute solution of hydrogen peroxide to their drinking water. [4] Hydrogen peroxide, an oxidant, delivers a primary redox (reduction/oxidation) signal in the body. The treatment cured more than half the rats (50-60%) within a period of two weeks to two months, with complete disappearance of the tumors. Holman also reported four human case studies, concerning people with advanced inoperable cancer. Two patients showed marked clinical improvement and tumor shrinkage. (Please note: we are not suggesting that people should consume hydrogen peroxide.) He published his findings in Nature, one of the most prestigious scientific periodicals of the day and, of course, the same journal that had presented Crick and Watson's double helix papers, just four year earlier.

Orthomolecular medicine has advanced since those days; we now have safer and more effective techniques with which to attack cancer. Intravenous vitamin C is a good example. [5] Nevertheless, both modern orthomolecular and conventional treatments often rely indirectly on increasing hydrogen peroxide levels, and thus deliberately causing free radical damage within the tumor. Watson correctly identifies oxidation and free radical damage as primary mechanisms through which radiation and chemotherapeutic drugs slow cancer growth. He also states that cancer cell adaptation to oxidation is the method by which it becomes resistant to such treatment, although once again, this has been standard in cancer biology for decades. We agree with some of Watson's assertions: that cancer research is overregulated; that a primary aim should be to cure late stage cancers; and that a cure for cancer could be achievable, given 5-10 years of properly targeted research. [6] However, we think he should become more familiar with progress in orthomolecular medicine, which is currently leading the way.

How Does Cancer Grow?

Cancer develops when cells multiply in the presence of oxidation and other damage. According to micro-evolutionary models, cells become damaged and change their behavior, growing uncontrollably, and act like the single-celled organisms from which they originally evolved. The cancer cells' individualism overwhelms the cooperative control processes that are essential to a complex multicellular organism. Importantly, antioxidants limit oxidative damage and thus inhibit early benign cancer growth, preventing cancer from developing.

As cancers become malignant, they exhibit incredible genetic diversity. Whereas a benign tumor is like a colony of similar abnormal cells, a malignant tumor is a whole ecosystem. At this late stage, some (but not all) antioxidants can indeed promote cancer cell growth. Thousands of different cell types coexist: cooperating, competing, and struggling to survive. A consequence of the anaerobic conditions that prevail during the early development of a malignancy is that cancer cells differ from healthy cells, in that they have been selected for the way they generate energy (i.e. anaerobically, using glucose). This is the well-known Warburg effect [7], another finding from the 1950s. [8]

How Does Cancer Stop?

Certain "antioxidant" substances, such as vitamin C, are able to exploit the differences between cancer and healthy cells; they kill cancer cells while helping healthy cells. [9] Such substances have the ability to act either as antioxidants or as pro-oxidants, depending on their environment. In tumors, they act as pro-oxidants, producing hydrogen peroxide that attacks the cancer; whereas, in healthy cells they act as protective anti-oxidants.

The dual nature of these substances is crucial, because standard chemotherapy or radiation harms healthy cells almost as much as it does cancer cells. The idea of a drug with a limited selective activity against cancer cells has apparently impressed Watson, who suggests that "highly focused new drug development should be initiated towards finding compounds beyond metformin that selectively kill [cancer] stem cells." [10] Metformin is an antidiabetic drug that acts against cancer by lowering blood glucose levels. Interestingly enough, carbohydrate reduction and other methods of "starving the cancer" are standard methods in orthomolecular cancer therapy. [2]

Selective anticancer agents of the kind Dr. Watson advocates are already known to exist: they include vitamin C, vitamin D, vitamin K, alpha-lipoic acid, selenium, and others. A research agenda to investigate the synergistic operation of such substances in cancer treatment is required urgently. It is time for conventional medicine to come to terms with their failure in cancer research and embrace selective orthomolecular methods. The public should stick with nutritional therapies while we wait, perhaps for some time, for medicine to focus on patients rather than profits. Don't be warned off the very substances that can most help you.

References:

1. Watson J. (2013) Nobel laureate James Watson claims antioxidants in late-stage cancers can promote cancer progression, The Royal Society, latest news, 09 January, http://royalsociety.org/news/2013/watson-antioxidants-cancer.

2. Hickey S. Roberts H. (2005) Cancer: Nutrition and Survival, Lulu Press.

3. Hickey S. Roberts H.J. (2007) Selfish cells: cancer as microevolution, 137-146.

4. Holman R.A. (1957) A method of destroying a malignant rat tumour in vivo, Nature, 4568, 1033.

5. http://www.doctoryourself.com/RiordanIVC.pdf, http://www.riordanclinic.org/research/research-studies/vitaminc/protocol/ and http://www.doctoryourself.com/Radiation_VitC.pptx.pdf

6. Lettice E. (2010) James Watson: 'cancer research is over regulated' The Guardian, Friday 10 September, http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2010/sep/10/james-watson-cancer-research.

7. Gonzalez M.J. Miranda Massari J.R. Duconge J. Riordan N.H. Ichim T. Quintero-Del-Rio A.I. Ortiz N. (2012) The bio-energetic theory of carcinogenesis, Med Hypotheses, 79(4), 433-439.

8. Warburg O. (1956) On the origin of cancer cells, Science, 123(3191), 309-314.

9. Casciari J.J. Riordan N.H. Schmidt T.L. Meng X.L. Jackson J.A. Riordan H.D. (2001) Cytotoxicity of ascorbate, lipoic acid, and other antioxidants in hollow fibre in vitro tumours, Br J Cancer, 84(11), 1544-1550. http://www.nature.com/bjc/journal/v84/n11/abs/6691814a.html

N.H. Riordan, H.D. Riordana, X. Menga, Y. Lia, J.A. Jackson. (1995) Intravenous ascorbate as a tumor cytotoxic chemotherapeutic agent, Med Hypotheses, 44(3), 207-213, http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/030698779590137X

10. Watson J. (2013) Oxidants, antioxidants and the current incurability of metastatic cancers, Open Biology, January 8, doi: 10.1098/rsob.120144.
 
Reading about lecithin, I wonder if the mental clarity effects I and others noticed immediately on taking liposomal C have to do with the fact that lecithin has choline in it? The clerk at the Vitamin Shoppe where I bought my last pound of lecithin mentioned brain benefits (weight loss, too) from lecithin, said she loves taking it. I told her I was using it to make liposomal vitamin C which she hadn't heard of.
 
I'm on my second day suffering from a very aggressive flu virus. Just when I've would have needed the liposomal C, but the damn ultrasonic cleaner hasn't yet arrived. :(

While I'm waiting, is there any point of mixing the lecithin (which I've got) and/or sodium bicarbonate with the ascorbic acid without the US cleaner? I guess not, but I thought I'd ask. I've got fever and strong muscle aches, feeling pretty miserable right now. I've been taking the ascorbic acid with water until 'bowel tolerance', but it hasn't helped as yet.
 
Aragorn said:
I'm on my second day suffering from a very aggressive flu virus. Just when I've would have needed the liposomal C, but the damn ultrasonic cleaner hasn't yet arrived. :(

While I'm waiting, is there any point of mixing the lecithin (which I've got) and/or sodium bicarbonate with the ascorbic acid without the US cleaner? I guess not, but I thought I'd ask. I've got fever and strong muscle aches, feeling pretty miserable right now. I've been taking the ascorbic acid with water until 'bowel tolerance', but it hasn't helped as yet.

So it's back to the old remedies ... drink tea, rest and read a good book!
Hope you get well soon (or you US cleaner arrives!).
:)
 

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