AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

[Gaby]

A word on famciclovir, highlights from Garth Nicolson’s article:

An alternative to ganciclovir. It is an orally pro-drug of the antiviral agent penciclovir. For herpes virus infections, famciclovir 500mg three times per day for 1 or 2 weeks is the standard dose. The half life of the drug is 2-3 hours. It is used in those with herpes zoster, herpes simplex, genital herpes, herpes infections in AIDS and sexually transmited herpes infections.

It should not be used in pregnancy, nursing mothers, patients with kidney failure. Use in children has not been established.

Adverse effects: headache (22%), nausea (11%), diarrhea (4-7%), vomiting (1-2%), flatulence (<2%), rash (<1%), fatigue (4-6%), reductions in white blood cells (1-3%), anemia (<1%).

 

[Gaby]

Final words on the treatment, from Garth Nicolson:

Vitamins and minerals should be taken 2 hours before or after antibiotics or antivirals. Stop antibiotics and antivirals if adverse reactions occur. {Networking and/or consulting your physician will help to distinguish it from a reaction that can subside or from a Herx reaction.}

You will experience cycles of relapse when severely physically or mentally stressed. Eventually you will be off antibiotics and anti-virals but you will need to continue supplements and a good diet.

 

[Gaby]

Preferred natural supplements from Garth Nicolson (From the article Mitochondrial dysfunction and chronic disease: treatment with natural supplements, 2013. See attached document). These supplements are mainly to treat intractable fatigue in those with chronic illnesses and to help restore mitochondrial function. In the paper attached there is a summary of several studies which support their use:

Alpha lipoic acid: 200-600mg/day. {With foods}.

L-carnitine: up to 2 grams per day, {Label instructions can be followed. It can be taken with or without food.}

CoQ10: up to 1200mg per day, but most studies used lower doses. {Label instructions can be followed. It is taken with food, it helps if it is fatty.}

NADH: Stabilized NADH or microencapsulated NADH, {Follow label instructions. Taken on an empty stomach.}

Membrane phospholipids {There are a lot of commercialized versions, saw one recently promoted in _prohealth.com. It is called NT Factor. There is a whole paper on NT Factor by Nicolson in case anyone is interested. If you eat plenty of good fats, I agree this one could be skipped. It seems it is the latest fashion due to its results in studies, but diet goes a long way here. It is supposed to heal mitochondrial membranes}

 

[Gaby]

More thoughts on the protocol.

The anti-viral could be tried when Herx reactions with doxycycline and then with metronidazole subside.

First week: Doxycycline 200-300mg per day, with 200mg in the morning for 6 consecutive months. If a person has significant Herx reactions, it will probably be better to deal with those before introducing the next drug (Metronidazol).

Benadryl 50mg or another anti-histaminic can be used to palliate Herx reactions.

Second week or when Herx reactions with doxycycline subside: Metronidazol. Those with no Herx reactions to doxycycline could do the full version of the anti-”amoeba” protocol with both metronidazol AND allopurinol as an induction anti-cyst phase. Allopurinol will only be taken for one week.

-Allopurinol 300mg three times per day for one week.

-Metronidazol the first two days of each week for a total of 6 weeks (Monday or Tuesday, alternatively Saturday and Sunday to be at home during the Herx reactions). Metronidazol doses (250mg tablets) have to be adjusted as follows:

200 pounds or 90 kg of weight: 2 tablets in the morning - 2 at lunchtime - 2 at dinnertime - 2 before going to bed.
150 pounds or 68 Kg of weight: 2 tablets three times per day.
225 pounds or 102 Kg of weight: 3 tablets three times per day.

-Cortisone can be used in conjunction with the allopurinol week to palliate Herx reactions.

I think it is better this way because the metronidazole+allopurinol protocol has been researched and tried many times with success. Modifying it has lead to treatment failure as reported initially on this thread.

If there are no Herx reactions with Metronidazol, it can be stopped. Proceeding with the anti-viral (gamciclovir) for 3 weeks would be the way to go.

If there are Herx reactions with Metronidazol after the 6th week with its use or if joint inflammation returns, 4 or 6 additional weeks on metronidazole must be done (on Mondays and Tuesdays, alternatively on Saturday and Sundays) and then metronidazol can be taken the first two days of each month thereafter.

It leaves the anti-viral therapy for the end, so to speak. I think that overall, that is safer. The protocol would be reasonable and the proved effective doses and combinations of drugs would be implemented in a safe way.

Third week or when Herx reactions with metronidazol subside: Gamciclovir 1000mg three times per day with food for 3 weeks.

Sounds good? Feedback?

 

[Nienna]

How does all of these antibiotices affect the gut?

I used tetracycline for many years because of Roscea. I think that that was one of several things that really screwed up my gut. It's still not healed so I'm a bit leary of taking the antibiotics at all, much less for so long a time.

Also, I seem to have histamine intolerance and a common theme in this is a deficiency in diamine oxidase (DAO) and mine (if this is the case) must be quite low as I react to pretty much everything. So because of this, I am assuming that my gut hasn't healed yet.

 

[Laura]

More thoughts on the protocol.

The anti-viral could be tried when Herx reactions with doxycycline and then with metronidazole subside.

First week: Doxycycline 200-300mg per day, with 200mg in the morning for 6 consecutive months. If a person has significant Herx reactions, it will probably be better to deal with those before introducing the next drug (Metronidazol).

Benadryl 50mg or another anti-histaminic can be used to palliate Herx reactions.

Second week or when Herx reactions with doxycycline subside: Metronidazol. Those with no Herx reactions to doxycycline could do the full version of the anti-”amoeba” protocol with both metronidazol AND allopurinol as an induction anti-cyst phase. Allopurinol will only be taken for one week.

-Allopurinol 300mg three times per day for one week.

-Metronidazol the first two days of each week for a total of 6 weeks (Monday or Tuesday, alternatively Saturday and Sunday to be at home during the Herx reactions). Metronidazol doses (250mg tablets) have to be adjusted as follows:

200 pounds or 90 kg of weight: 2 tablets in the morning - 2 at lunchtime - 2 at dinnertime - 2 before going to bed.
150 pounds or 68 Kg of weight: 2 tablets three times per day.
225 pounds or 102 Kg of weight: 3 tablets three times per day.

-Cortisone can be used in conjunction with the allopurinol week to palliate Herx reactions.

I think it is better this way because the metronidazole+allopurinol protocol has been researched and tried many times with success. Modifying it has lead to treatment failure as reported initially on this thread.

If there are no Herx reactions with Metronidazol, it can be stopped. Proceeding with the anti-viral (gamciclovir) for 3 weeks would be the way to go.

If there are Herx reactions with Metronidazol after the 6th week with its use or if joint inflammation returns, 4 or 6 additional weeks on metronidazole must be done (on Mondays and Tuesdays, alternatively on Saturday and Sundays) and then metronidazol can be taken the first two days of each month thereafter.

It leaves the anti-viral therapy for the end, so to speak. I think that overall, that is safer. The protocol would be reasonable and the proved effective doses and combinations of drugs would be implemented in a safe way.

Third week or when Herx reactions with metronidazol subside: Gamciclovir 1000mg three times per day with food for 3 weeks.

Sounds good? Feedback?

The only problem is, as I learned, with the metronidazole spread out through the day, even taking before bed, there is never a time to get any probiotics. So, I just didn't take any while taking the antibiotic, but I loaded up on them on the between days.

It also means you need to eat something 3 to 4 times a day because metronidazole is brutal on the stomach I found. Even if just a buckwheat cracker or two loaded with butter.

So, utilizing your suggestions, I've set up this schedule:

Six Month Protocol

For the first week:
Get up in morning and take 200 mg doxycycline. This you will do every day for six months.

For first week, also take Benadryl at this point if needed.

½ hour later, eat breakfast

Starting only in the second week: Following breakfast take Metronidazole only two days per week. Allopurinol for one week starting on the same day as the Metronidazole.

Metronidazole:
150 pounds or 68 Kg of weight: 2 tablets three times per day.
200 pounds or 90 kg of weight: 2 tablets in the morning - 2 at lunchtime - 2 at dinnertime - 2 before going to bed or 3 tablets twice a day and two for the last dose.
225 pounds or 102 Kg of weight: 3 tablets three times per day.

Allopurinol 300mg three times per day for one week.

Cortisone can be used in conjunction with the metro/allopurinol week to palliate Herx reactions.

Starting in the Third week: Antiviral only for 3rd through 6th weeks.

2 hours later, take probiotics.

1 hour later take 5 grams Vitamin C. Dissolve Sublingual B vites under tongue.

Late afternoon/early evening: Take 100 mg doxycycline.

½ hour later, eat light dinner and take metronidazole, allopurinol, the antiviral. Same rule as above for metronidazole – two days a week, allopurinol only for first week of metro, and antiviral only for 3rd through 6th weeks.

3 hours later, before bed, take probiotics, magnesium, selenium, chromium, zinc, boron, vitamin E and CoQ10. On the days when metronidazole is taken, skip the minerals and probiotics before bed and just take the metro though you will want to have something light to eat like a buckwheat cracker or two with butter.

How does that sound? I wonder if we could do a chart or graphic thing because this can be very confusing for some people! Especially when you are foggy headed. A chart, maybe, where you can check a box as soon as you have done the dose of whatever?

Also, need to find places to add in the other necessary supplements.

 

[Gaby]

How does that sound? I wonder if we could do a chart or graphic thing because this can be very confusing for some people! Especially when you are foggy headed. A chart, maybe, where you can check a box as soon as you have done the dose of whatever?

See attached .doc

I followed the template of the DMSA protocol from "Detoxifying and Healing" by Sidney Baker. It gives all the instructions.

Any other ideas on how to make it visually and user friendly?

 

[Yas]

How does that sound? I wonder if we could do a chart or graphic thing because this can be very confusing for some people! Especially when you are foggy headed. A chart, maybe, where you can check a box as soon as you have done the dose of whatever?

See attached .doc

I followed the template of the DMSA protocol from "Detoxifying and Healing" by Sidney Baker. It gives all the instructions.

Any other ideas on how to make it visually and user friendly?

I'm working on it! :D

 

[shijing]

Mitochondrial energy supplements are good: CoQ10, alpha lipoic acid, NAC, L-carnitine, methyl supplements.

Just wanted to make a quick mention that in one of Dr. Rostenberg's videos, he mentions that NAC is an anti-mucolytic that is good for breaking up biofilms, so that might be another reason to include it in the supplement regimen (to complement the Metronidazol in breaking up and treating encysted forms).

Thanks Laura and Gaby for all the work you've done today in compiling this protocol from the Nicolsons' papers! I started reading them last night, and will try to get through the rest by the end of today (the new one on mitochondrial dysfunction looks like it will be quite good) -- if I happen to notice anything that hasn't been mentioned already, I'll make a note here. I just took a look at the first version of the protocol table that Gaby posted, and it's looking great so far -- thanks to Yas in advance for your work on it as well

Plague Time was supposed to arrive today, but ... it didn't. Watching the mailbox...

 

[Yas]

I made a chart for the protocol. It's a bit long but I thought it could be better to put the weeks so that one can follow it better. At least it's easier for me to see it like that.

I put the word version (in case you want to edit it, though you can also tell me if there anything you want to edit) and the PDF version, because the one in word can get disorganized according to the Office version and computer, PDF keeps things organized ;)

 

[shijing]

Hi Nienna,

Also, I seem to have histamine intolerance and a common theme in this is a deficiency in diamine oxidase (DAO) and mine (if this is the case) must be quite low as I react to pretty much everything. So because of this, I am assuming that my gut hasn't healed yet.

This was mentioned briefly by one of the Depression Session guests, and I have this in my notes:

Histamine intolerance: people with MTHFR or DAO mutations can have trouble breaking down histamine; yeast and bacteria can lead to same; mast-cell destabilization: mold is a mast-cell destabilizer.

So there's two potential causes (methylation polymorphisms and infection) that aren't mutually exclusive. I did a search on 'DAO polymorphism', and this site comes up first:

http://www.deficitdao.org/

On their DAO Deficiency tab, they have a nice summary that includes 'adverse effects derived from DAO deficiency' which you might want to compare your symptoms to. If you're looking at a DAO polymorphism, the best way to treat it would be identifying the correct methylation supplementation protocol which would allow you to bypass this particular block in your cycle and get it running smoothly again.

Yasmina Ykelenstam also has a page on this, although you can tell she ran it through a translation program after lifting the text directly from the parent site (http://www.histaminintoleranz.ch/diagnose.html).

I've also attached a paper which may have some helpful information -- this is probably also relevant to the Urticaria thread, since I keep seeing that come up in connection with DAO.

Hope some of this is helpful!

 

[Gaby]

I made a chart for the protocol. It's a bit long but I thought it could be better to put the weeks so that one can follow it better. At least it's easier for me to see it like that.

Excellent job! I like it.

It could be modified to include the time of the day each thing needs to be taken according to a daily dietary plan, but that will variate on metronidazole days according to its doses. As a general guide, I would go for both the small table and its weekly/monthly plan. :)

 

[H-KQGE]

I made a chart for the protocol. It's a bit long but I thought it could be better to put the weeks so that one can follow it better. At least it's easier for me to see it like that.

Excellent job! I like it.

It could be modified to include the time of the day each thing needs to be taken according to a daily dietary plan, but that will variate on metronidazole days according to its doses. As a general guide, I would go for both the small table and its weekly/monthly plan. :)

Agreed, nice & clean. Thanks Yas. And thanks to Shijing for the PDF, I tick 4 of those reactions listed.


Edit: additional line.

 

[Mr.Cyan]

I made a chart for the protocol. It's a bit long but I thought it could be better to put the weeks so that one can follow it better. At least it's easier for me to see it like that.

Excellent job! I like it.

It could be modified to include the time of the day each thing needs to be taken according to a daily dietary plan, but that will variate on metronidazole days according to its doses. As a general guide, I would go for both the small table and its weekly/monthly plan. :)

Indeed :) Thanks Yas for putting it together - very helpful. A big thanks as well to Laura and Gaby for all the info & research, much appreciated.

 

[Laura]

Excellent jobs sorting this out.

Those of you who cannot easily get the meds might want to consult with Gaby privately via her medical website for guidance. At the very least, you can download the papers and the protocol sheet that has been provided here to give to your doctor.