AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

[Gaby]

Thank, Laura. This is something along the lines I was hoping for. I'm following what is being done here closely.

This reminds me that the last time I took antibiotics was in 2006. Nearly ten years later, I would have thought the problem was solved with the diet, the detox and supplementation.

Interesting.

 

[Gaby]

When I looked at it now, I thought that I could make it shorter, so that it would be cheaper to print if someone wants to print it. Let me know if it's ok, or if you preffer the longer one.

I will keep both, just in case

 

[shijing]

Thanks for this, Shijing, I'll take a look at these when I can. I've already read quite a bit about this and from what I've read, in order to get over the DAO deficiency, you have to heal your gut. And I do have almost all of the symptoms of DAO deficiency.

All things being equal, on a good diet, the gut should heal in a year or so. For those whose guts do not heal, obviously, something else is in play.

It's like a catch 22: you can't heal your gut until you kill the critters hiding in the body. And, killing the critters hiding in the body kills critters in your gut that you have to constantly replace throughout the protocol.

This reminds me that the last time I took antibiotics was in 2006. Nearly ten years later, I would have thought the problem was solved with the diet, the detox and supplementation.

Interesting.

I've had a couple of intensive rounds of antibiotics in the past, but it's been many years (more than a decade) for me as well since the last one. During the time I'd been on a strict ketogenic diet (which was easily more than a year), I continued to have leaky gut symptoms that expressed primarily as various skin issues. I was very confused by them and basically ignored them, thinking that I must have healed my gut at some point -- looking back, that was probably just wishful thinking and sweeping the obvious symptoms under the rug.

So I'm excited about this too, and hope to try the protocol sometime soon -- if I understand correctly, the Metronidazole should also be effective against yeasts like candida. I hope this will finally provide a real step forward for those of us who have been struggling to heal our gut, even though we were already doing everything we could with our diets.

 

[nicklebleu]

One thing we haven't discussed yet is who should go on this protocol- or to formulate that in a different way: When does the benefits outweigh the risks. Obviously this is in the end everyone's own decision, but I think we should discuss that.

Because it is a long and potentially damaging protocol. I am not entirely sure at this stage whether or not to embark on this journey as my symptoms are pretty minor. I was happy to give the six weeks Metronidazole regime a go, because it's not too long. But six months ...

 

[Laura]

One thing we haven't discussed yet is who should go on this protocol- or to formulate that in a different way: When does the benefits outweigh the risks. Obviously this is in the end everyone's own decision, but I think we should discuss that.

Because it is a long and potentially damaging protocol. I am not entirely sure at this stage whether or not to embark on this journey as my symptoms are pretty minor. I was happy to give the six weeks Metronidazole regime a go, because it's not too long. But six months ...

Yes, it's a good question. But before we can formulate an answer to it, I would suggest reading "Plague Time". Because, it seems pretty clear that chronic illnesses, including cancers that arise later in life, most probably are due to infectious agents. A person may have little in the way of symptoms for a long time, and then - wham!

According to conventional wisdom, our genes and lifestyles are the most important causes of the most deadly ailments of our time. Conventional wisdom may be wrong. In this controversial book, the eminent biologist Paul W. Ewald offers some startling arguments:

-Germs appear to be at the root of heart disease, Alzheimer’s, schizophrenia, many forms of cancer, and other chronic diseases.

-The greatest threats to our health come not from sensational killers such as Ebola, West Nile virus, and super-virulent strains of influenza, but from agents that are already here causing long-term infections, which eventually lead to debilitation and death.

-The medical establishment has largely ignored the evidence that implicates these germs, to the detriment of our public health.

-New evolutionary theories are available, which explain how germs function and offer opportunities for controlling these modern plagues — if we are willing to listen to them.

Plague Time is an eye-opening exploration of the revolutionary new understanding of disease that may set the course of medical research for the twenty-first century.

 

[nicklebleu]

Yes, it's a good question. But before we can formulate an answer to it, I would suggest reading "Plague Time". Because, it seems pretty clear that chronic illnesses, including cancers that arise later in life, most probably are due to infectious agents. A person may have little in the way of symptoms for a long time, and then - wham!

It's ordered and on my list to read!

 

[HiThere]

It's ordered and on my list to read!

And mine :)

 

[Yas]

I've been searching for the meds in order to do the protocol.

I can get Doxycycline and Metronidazole from _fludan.com, yet, I can't check the details.

Would these be OK?

*Doxycycline (Hyclate) USP 100 g
_http://fludan.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=842


*Metronidazole BP 25 g
_http://fludan.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=1401&osCsid=f70705a360b39926a051a220d3a5c496


I still have to check if I can get Allopurinol locally, but I've found it here:
_http://www.universaldrugstore.com/medications/Allopurinol/300mg

Would that one be OK? Can I trust that website?

I've found that ganciclovir is extremely expensive, and I don't know if I can get it without a prescription. I've found one brand that seems reasonable, which is sold in Argentina, but I don't really know the price: Cymevene (250 mg) x 84

Do you have any suggestions about how to get a cheaper one?

Famciclovir (Famvir) seems to be cheaper, but it's quite expensive too, I've found it for 360$ here: _http://www.edrugs.eu/famciclovir/comprar/

It seems that I can get benadryl or other antihistaminic here without problems, but I don't know about the cortisone. Is the cortisone absolutely necessary? Is there a place where you can buy it?

The supplements are all in vitacost, where I usually buy my supplements, but I wanted to know which ones are absolutely necessary, because the protocol is very pricey and I have to try to save as much as I can.

Calculating what I could now (without benadryl and cortisone), it amounts to 926.77$.

I want to pay for it if it's going to work and so it seems... but I will be left with no money after it, so I don't know... maybe I should wait?

What do you think?

 

[shijing]

I want to pay for it if it's going to work and so it seems... but I will be left with no money after it, so I don't know... maybe I should wait?

What do you think?

I'm going to defer to Gaby, Laura and others who have more experience with these things on your specific questions above, but in answer to your last question I'd say it's best to wait for now. I think we still have more research to do on questions like safeguarding the gut and whether the protocol should be fine-tuned for individual cases (one thing I want to look into is how mandatory the ganciclovir is). There are also several people (myself included) who have yet to read Plague Time and absorb the information in that book.

I talked to my own doctor about the protocol, and we're looking at giving it a try, using me as a guinea pig in case I eventually recommend it to some of my other family members who might need it, but I wouldn't start it for at least another month -- I want to get some more research and reading under my belt first so I have a really good understanding of what I'm doing once I start, because it's a long-term commitment once you get going.

So that's my two cents on that -- others can certainly add theirs. And BTW, thanks again Yas for your help on the protocol PDF -- it looks very nice and will hopefully be easy for people to use in consultation with a doctor :)

 

[Yas]

Thanks for your answer Shijing!

I agree with that, I also want to absorb more information and part of that was to know what would be the cost of it all. It would be something to consider for many others too, OSIT.

I will also try to get the book. For what Laura said about it, it seems to be giving a whole new understanding of some of the things we study here.

And I'm glad that the pdf/word documents were useful.

Edit: spelling

 

[nicklebleu]

Same for me here - I'll read the book first and decide if I'll go on the protocol then, as it is pretty "invasive", especially given that I only have minor symptoms. But hearing from those who have read the book it could be a "game changer", at least in the long run.

And also given that my symptoms are mainly in the "trunk" as opposed to the brain I am also not too keen on the ganciclovir. But maybe it's best if one chooses to go on the protocol to do it all ...

 

[Laura]

I agree that we need to do some more reading and research before jumping on the wagon.

I did my ninth cycle of metronidazole with no observable reactions so I'll be shelving that for just once a month from now on. I'm continuing the doxycycline 200 mg in the morning, 100 mg in the evening and constant replacement of flora with probiotics.

Keep in mind that in my case, and in the two other cases here, we have some fairly serious conditions (RA, Lupus, cancer) so the benefits outweigh the risks and, as far as I can see, the risks are minimal.

Funny thing is this: back when our pup, Sebastian, was ill in 2007, (he had ehrlichiosis), a lot of research said that dogs with that illness, even if the survive the critical phase, usually die within two years. Then, I read some research where a vet was suggesting long term doxycycline (6 months) to really cure the thing. So, that's what we did. And Sebastian lived to a pretty ripe old age - 8 more years. So I think back on that now.

 

[Laura]

I've finished "Plague Time" and the latter part of the book which is devoted to prevention strategies is most interesting. As an evolutionary biologist, he suggests that we can't win the war against pathogens, but we can induce them to evolve into benign forms.

He also discusses the differences between an acute illness and chronic things such as the illnesses that are the main subject of this thread. An acute illness can become a chronic, hidden condition. He uses the example of atherosclerosis several times. If it is an infection (as he says is most likely), it has killed more people than the black death because it is the root of heart disease and stroke.

It gets a little complicated when he talks about whether or not pathogens can be transmitted from chronic conditions or not. He suggests not, using several examples. This means that utilizing a prolonged antibiotic treatment to cure the chronic low-grade infection is not going to produce a more virulent form. But it also means that you should use a DIFFERENT antibiotic on acute infections. I think the reason is that the critters you have making an acute illness are somewhat different from the ones that then move in and hang out forever - attenuated or something.

There's a lot to think about from this book, and it is clear that modern medicine took a serious wrong turn back in the 40s, Back then, it was first proposed that ulcers and heart disease were caused by infections but then the whole deal about genetics taking the leading role took over and studies of infectious causes were abandoned. That little bit of history that he includes is, in itself, most interesting. It looks like psychopaths moved in and took over.

His section on biological warfare is also very interesting because there is a lot to be read between the lines, I think. And there, he does come out and use the term "psychopaths".

All in all, a very worthwhile read. I'll be continuing my protocol!

 

[DougEE]

I agree that we need to do some more reading and research before jumping on the wagon.

I did my ninth cycle of metronidazole with no observable reactions so I'll be shelving that for just once a month from now on. I'm continuing the doxycycline 200 mg in the morning, 100 mg in the evening and constant replacement of flora with probiotics.

Keep in mind that in my case, and in the two other cases here, we have some fairly serious conditions (RA, Lupus, cancer) so the benefits outweigh the risks and, as far as I can see, the risks are minimal.

Funny thing is this: back when our pup, Sebastian, was ill in 2007, (he had ehrlichiosis), a lot of research said that dogs with that illness, even if the survive the critical phase, usually die within two years. Then, I read some research where a vet was suggesting long term doxycycline (6 months) to really cure the thing. So, that's what we did. And Sebastian lived to a pretty ripe old age - 8 more years. So I think back on that now.

Here's another update from my parallel reality of fighting the Blastocystis Hominis parasite with the protocol Triple Therapy that includes Iodoquinol, Nitazoxanide and Paramomycin all combined for 10 days. Although we are not fighting the serious conditions as mentioned above, nevertheless, I remember the many many times that my wife would cry "I just want to die". Her weakened state left her bed-ridden for 1 or 2 days at a time, then a slight recovery would occur, but the anxiety attacks were constant. Those attacks started during the night time but for the past year they have shifted to mid day, so she is now getting a very good night's sleep now.

My wife finished the protocol, continued her low carb, no wheat, no sugar, high fat diet for another month and then submitted a stool test. At the same time, I being very healthy but now concerned after all this info, decided to also submit a stool test. The results for my wife's test showed that she has eliminated the Blastocystis completely, but had now picked up (or unmasked) another called CitroBacter Freundi. The results of my stool test showed that I had a high incidence of Blastocystis Hominis as well as as high incidence of Citrobacter Freundi.
So here we are today, me having a more severe infection of Blastos and zero symptoms than my wife ever had, but her immune system being compromised gave her very bad symptoms. This does highlight what has been mentioned previously in the research that its the environment that determines the severity of the condition.
So I'm going to attack the Blastos with the Idoquinol , since it worked for my wife, and we're both taking grapefruit seed extract for the Citrobacter under the guidance of our naturopath. My wife is still suffering from mid-day anxiety attacks, although much reduced in severity now accompanied with hot sweats. She has much more energy now and can even get outside and do some gardening, so things are looking up.

 

[Pierre]

Keep in mind that in my case, and in the two other cases here, we have some fairly serious conditions (RA, Lupus, cancer) so the benefits outweigh the risks and, as far as I can see, the risks are minimal.

I'm one of the two cases. Having had two brain cancers, when I read that Mycoplasma Fermentens could be a cause for cancer, I though that it was definitely worth testing the anti infectious protocol. On Wednesday 15th I started taking doxycycline 200 mg in the morning + 100 mg in the evening.

After each round I've written down the perceived symptoms. Notice that it is self-reporting so it's probably biased plus it's difficult to say if all the listed symptoms are solely due to the doxycycline. In any case the perceived symptoms are quite similar to the typical Herxheimer reaction due to pathogens die-offs.

Below, "d" stands for "day"
"r" stands for "round"
the figure between brackets stands for the severity of the symptom from 1 (light) to 5 (very strong)

d1r1
shivers (2), cold sweat (1), stiff neck (5), headache (2)
d1r2
irritability (3), foggy brain (2) , fatigue (2), headache (1), running nose (4), sleep disturbance (5)

d2r1
Headache (1), foggy brain (2), fatigue (1), back pain (1)
d2r2
Headache (1), foggy brain (2), fatigue (3), shoulder pain (1), sleep disturbance (3)

d3r1
Headache (1), foggy brain (3), fatigue (3), stiff neck (2), nausea (2)

After taking doxycycline I can observe the symptoms appearing about 1/2 to 1 hour later and then increasing until it reaches a peak about 5 hours later before it starts receding. Problem is you have to take another dose before the symptoms have totally disappeared!

It's pretty tough and I can't even imagine taking the other drugs on top of the doxycycline. This being said the tougher the better since it means (hopefully) that a strong Herxheimer reaction is going on, i.e. a lot of critters are dying.

I'll keep on posting the symptoms and hopefully the list will get shorter and shorter. :)