Could we look on China as the eastern equivalent of the IMF.? and remembering the C's saying STS travel backwards and forwards in time pre-empting any and all moves and it all being a matter of balance. Very hard to see it all from our lowly perspective.
BRICS: Laying the Foundations of the Next Empire?
The same video could be applied to the World Bank, International Monetary Fund and the Bank of International Settlements system.
It's been done around the world by the West for a very long time so I suppose it is going East for a bit of balancing now.
munaychasumaq
Dagobah Resident
China and Russia are still making the BRICS strong in spite of changes in Brazil.But we have to wait and see...and trust in the Putin`s Wise.
angelburst29
The Living Force
I'm not sure yet, how this new development, might affect BRICS - if at all? Is it a counter-competitive move by a South American group? Or is it's sole purpose, to act like a strong arm of the United States, to over-throw Venezuelans Maduro?
A group of South American leaders signed a declaration on Friday to create a bloc they say is open to any country, regardless of ideology, to collaborate on solving regional problems.
South American presidents announce creation of new regional bloc
Guyana’s Ambassador George Talbot, Brazil's President Jair Bolsonaro, Argentina's President Mauricio Macri, Colombia's President Ivan Duque, Peru's President Martin Vizcarra, Paraguay's President Mario Abdo Benitez, Chile's President Sebastian Pinera and Ecuador's President Lenin Moreno attend the Prosur summit, at the presidential palace La Moneda, in Santiago, Chile March 22, 2019. REUTERS/Rodrigo Garrido
Presidents from Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Chile, Ecuador, Paraguay, and Peru attended the summit in the Chilean capital of Santiago. Chile and Colombia had led the push for the new ‘Prosur’ political grouping after criticism that a previous bloc, Unasur, failed to take action on crisis-stricken Venezuela.
“This will be a forum with a firm and clear commitment to democracy, freedom and a respect for human rights,” said Chilean President Sebastian Pinera following the signing ceremony.
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro was not among the leaders invited to meet in Santiago on Friday.
Some leaders have criticized the organizers for leaving out Maduro and instead inviting Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido, recognized by many countries as head of state after he assumed the interim presidency in January. Guaido did not send a representative to the summit.
Bolivian President Evo Morales, a close ally of Maduro, and Uruguayan President Tabare Vazquez also did not attend.
Unasur was created in 2008 when leftist populism advocated by Maduro’s predecessor Hugo Chavez was at its strongest in South America. But in recent years, the bloc has been paralyzed by divisions as center-right governments have risen to power.
A group of South American leaders signed a declaration on Friday to create a bloc they say is open to any country, regardless of ideology, to collaborate on solving regional problems.
South American presidents announce creation of new regional bloc
Guyana’s Ambassador George Talbot, Brazil's President Jair Bolsonaro, Argentina's President Mauricio Macri, Colombia's President Ivan Duque, Peru's President Martin Vizcarra, Paraguay's President Mario Abdo Benitez, Chile's President Sebastian Pinera and Ecuador's President Lenin Moreno attend the Prosur summit, at the presidential palace La Moneda, in Santiago, Chile March 22, 2019. REUTERS/Rodrigo Garrido
Presidents from Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Chile, Ecuador, Paraguay, and Peru attended the summit in the Chilean capital of Santiago. Chile and Colombia had led the push for the new ‘Prosur’ political grouping after criticism that a previous bloc, Unasur, failed to take action on crisis-stricken Venezuela.
“This will be a forum with a firm and clear commitment to democracy, freedom and a respect for human rights,” said Chilean President Sebastian Pinera following the signing ceremony.
Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro was not among the leaders invited to meet in Santiago on Friday.
Some leaders have criticized the organizers for leaving out Maduro and instead inviting Venezuelan opposition leader Juan Guaido, recognized by many countries as head of state after he assumed the interim presidency in January. Guaido did not send a representative to the summit.
Bolivian President Evo Morales, a close ally of Maduro, and Uruguayan President Tabare Vazquez also did not attend.
Unasur was created in 2008 when leftist populism advocated by Maduro’s predecessor Hugo Chavez was at its strongest in South America. But in recent years, the bloc has been paralyzed by divisions as center-right governments have risen to power.
on_strike_usaexpat
Jedi
The history of South American blocs have shown them to be more show than effective in doing anything and this one will probably not be any different (or maybe they will get things done this time, who knows?).
Article fails to say that Bolivia and Uruguay did send their vice chancellors as observers, that Suriname was also represented and that Guaido’s personal invitation was to be as a guest not as a member of Prosur which he later declined or as Chile’s President claims in the conversation: "Pero después dijimos que no queríamos 'venezuelizar' Prosur”.
Before the meeting, Bolsonaro arrived the day prior for direct talks and agreements with the Chilean President over energy integration, infrastructure, transport, cybersecurity, among other areas.
My take is that Chile’s future megaport and giant Brasil will be the two most important poles in the future Martime Silk Road in regards to South America and especially the Southern Cone of South America no matter what party leads each country and they know it and that stability and pragmatism will make sure it occurs without problems.
Article fails to say that Bolivia and Uruguay did send their vice chancellors as observers, that Suriname was also represented and that Guaido’s personal invitation was to be as a guest not as a member of Prosur which he later declined or as Chile’s President claims in the conversation: "Pero después dijimos que no queríamos 'venezuelizar' Prosur”.
Before the meeting, Bolsonaro arrived the day prior for direct talks and agreements with the Chilean President over energy integration, infrastructure, transport, cybersecurity, among other areas.
My take is that Chile’s future megaport and giant Brasil will be the two most important poles in the future Martime Silk Road in regards to South America and especially the Southern Cone of South America no matter what party leads each country and they know it and that stability and pragmatism will make sure it occurs without problems.
angelburst29
The Living Force
Thanks for providing corrections and an update, on_strike_usaexpat. Very much appreciated!
China's President Xi Jinping just signed some deals with Italy. I would imagine, Italy will become another future Seaport in the Belt and Road infrastructure?
Italy signs deals worth 2.5 billion euros with China
Italy signed a preliminary accord with China on Saturday that makes it the first country of the Group of Seven industrialized nation to join the Chinese Belt and Road infrastructure project.
Around 30 parallel deals were signed on the sidelines of the visit to Rome by Chinese President Xi Jinping, including 10 with Italian companies and others with ministries and public bodies. (Includes list of deals.)
angelburst29
The Living Force
There's also this development which needs to be taken into consideration, along with BRICS and the Belt and Road infrastructure and the new Prosur Political grouping? My limited understanding is that these groupings, along with other's, will eventually form the foundations toward a "democratic polycentric world order"?
March 19, 2019 - Asia-Pacific becoming new center of political and economic power — Russian ambassador
Asia-Pacific becoming new center of political and economic power — Russian ambassador
The Asia-Pacific is becoming a new center of economic and political power, Russian Ambassador to China Andrey Denisov said in an address to the 13th regional conference "Russian Diasporas for Cooperation" in Shanghai.
"The Asia-Pacific is becoming a new center of economic and political influence. Russia has lately been very active in developing relations with countries in the region, emphasizing economic cooperation. In the conditions of comprehensive participation of our country in processes unfolding in the Asia Pacific, our compatriots' knowledge and expert assessment become especially important," Denisov said.
The conference that was first held in Beijing 12 years ago, now hosts representatives of Russian diasporas from 11 countries, including China, India, Iran, Cambodia, Mongolia, Nepal, Singapore, South Korea, Thailand and Japan.
February 27, 2019 - Russia, India, China should coordinate efforts to ensure safety of Asia-Pacific — Lavrov
Russia, India, China should coordinate efforts to ensure safety of Asia-Pacific — Lavrov
Moscow, New Delhi and Beijing need to continue coordinating their efforts to ensure global and regional security, including in the Asia-Pacific region, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday.
Ahead of meeting with his Indian and Chinese counterparts, Sushma Swaraj and Wang Yi, Lavrov said that the Russia-India-China format remains an important platform in the search for solutions to numerous challenges and threats.
"Our cooperation is based on the solid foundation of the international law. We are firmly committed to the UN Charter’s principles of sovereign equality of states, non-interference into domestic affairs, peaceful settlement of disputes. We are also committed to the values of equal and indivisible security," Lavrov said.
"The ongoing process of creating a more fair and democratic polycentric world order requires us to closely coordinate our efforts and to forge consolidated stances," the Russian foreign minister continued. "It is important to keep promoting positive and unifying international agenda, directed at ensuring global and regional stability and security, at achieving goals of sustainable development, at improving the framework of inter-state relations, including in the Asia-Pacific region".
March 19, 2019 - Asia-Pacific becoming new center of political and economic power — Russian ambassador
Asia-Pacific becoming new center of political and economic power — Russian ambassador
The Asia-Pacific is becoming a new center of economic and political power, Russian Ambassador to China Andrey Denisov said in an address to the 13th regional conference "Russian Diasporas for Cooperation" in Shanghai.
"The Asia-Pacific is becoming a new center of economic and political influence. Russia has lately been very active in developing relations with countries in the region, emphasizing economic cooperation. In the conditions of comprehensive participation of our country in processes unfolding in the Asia Pacific, our compatriots' knowledge and expert assessment become especially important," Denisov said.
The conference that was first held in Beijing 12 years ago, now hosts representatives of Russian diasporas from 11 countries, including China, India, Iran, Cambodia, Mongolia, Nepal, Singapore, South Korea, Thailand and Japan.
February 27, 2019 - Russia, India, China should coordinate efforts to ensure safety of Asia-Pacific — Lavrov
Russia, India, China should coordinate efforts to ensure safety of Asia-Pacific — Lavrov
Moscow, New Delhi and Beijing need to continue coordinating their efforts to ensure global and regional security, including in the Asia-Pacific region, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday.
Ahead of meeting with his Indian and Chinese counterparts, Sushma Swaraj and Wang Yi, Lavrov said that the Russia-India-China format remains an important platform in the search for solutions to numerous challenges and threats.
"Our cooperation is based on the solid foundation of the international law. We are firmly committed to the UN Charter’s principles of sovereign equality of states, non-interference into domestic affairs, peaceful settlement of disputes. We are also committed to the values of equal and indivisible security," Lavrov said.
"The ongoing process of creating a more fair and democratic polycentric world order requires us to closely coordinate our efforts and to forge consolidated stances," the Russian foreign minister continued. "It is important to keep promoting positive and unifying international agenda, directed at ensuring global and regional stability and security, at achieving goals of sustainable development, at improving the framework of inter-state relations, including in the Asia-Pacific region".
Something that worries me about the shift in power from the west to the east is what a ponerized east will be like vs a ponerized west.
I watched this video, released by BBC, about China's 'thought transformation' camps were people who are deemed of having "extreme" thoughts are taken to be transformed to fit with the norm. It's a little disturbing to say the least.
If you consider China's social credit system, their conformity to digital surveillance, and the one world order that are apparently running the show... I have a hard time imagining china's influence being any better if it becomes the new US. Mind you things are very complicated, especially when you shake things up with meteors and such, so a 'wait and see' approach is probably best.
I watched this video, released by BBC, about China's 'thought transformation' camps were people who are deemed of having "extreme" thoughts are taken to be transformed to fit with the norm. It's a little disturbing to say the least.
If you consider China's social credit system, their conformity to digital surveillance, and the one world order that are apparently running the show... I have a hard time imagining china's influence being any better if it becomes the new US. Mind you things are very complicated, especially when you shake things up with meteors and such, so a 'wait and see' approach is probably best.
Zar,
I think you raise a valid concern that we don't just think everything about the methods of China will somehow be an improvement over our Western ways. That was a sobering video in terms of a method to change thinking and behavior. It does make me think of the difficulty former criminals and psychopaths had in changing their "thinking errors" as described in Inside the Criminal Mind by Samenow.
I think we on this forum are becoming aware that an STO approach should take the "help when asked approach" but these people are being much more than just persuaded and helped by free will it seems.
It also reminded me of the way we tried a very similar method on Native American Indian children here in Pennsylvania between 1879 and 1918.
How Boarding Schools Tried to ‘Kill the Indian’ Through Assimilation
“Kill the Indian in him, and save the man.”
That was the mindset under which the U.S. government forced tens of thousands of Native American children to attend “assimilation” boarding schools in the late 19th century. Decades later, those words—delivered in a speech by U.S. cavalry captain Richard Henry Pratt, who opened the first such school in Carlisle, Pennsylvania—have come to symbolize the brutality of the boarding school system.
The history of this forced assimilation is far from settled. On August 7, 2017, the U.S. Army began exhuming the graves of three children from the Northern Arapaho tribe who had died at Pratt’s Carlisle Indian Industrial School in the 1880s. The children’s names were Little Chief, Horse, and Little Plume—names they were forbidden to use at the school.
Yufna Soldier Wolf, center, of the Northern Arapaho, with tribal elders, Mark Soldier Wolf and Crawford White Sr., holds pictures of Little Plume, Horse and Little Chief. The three Arapaho children died about 135 years ago while attending a government-run school in Pennsylvania, the Carlisle Indian School, where they were buried.
Charles Fox/The Philadelphia Inquirer/AP Photo
Students at Carlisle and the roughly 150 other such schools that the government opened were susceptible to deadly infections like tuberculosis and the flu. During Carlisle’s operation between 1879 and 1918, nearly 200 other children were buried in the same cemetery as the Northern Arapaho boys, according to The Washington Post.
Carlisle and other boarding schools were part of a long history of U.S. attempts to either kill, remove, or assimilate Native Americans. In 1830, the U.S. forced Native Americans to move west of the Mississippi to make room for U.S. expansion with the the Indian Removal Act. But a few decades later, the U.S. worried it was running out of places to relocate the country’s original inhabitants.
“As white population grew in the United States and people settled further west towards the Mississippi in the late 1800s, there was increasing pressure on the recently removed groups to give up some of their new land,” according to the Minnesota Historical Society. Since there was no more Western territory to push them towards, the U.S. decided to remove Native Americans by assimilating them. In 1885, Commissioner of Indian Affairs Hiram Price explained the logic: “it is cheaper to give them education than to fight them.”
The Carlisle Indian School
16
GALLERY
16 IMAGES
As part of this federal push for assimilation, boarding schools forbid Native American children from using their own languages and names, as well as from practicing their religion and culture. They were given new Anglo-American names, clothes, and haircuts, and told they must abandon their way of life because it was inferior to white people’s.
Though the schools left a devastating legacy, they failed to eradicate Native American cultures as they’d hoped. Later, the Navajo Code Talkers who helped the U.S. win World War II would reflect on the strange irony this forced assimilation had played in their lives.
“As adults, [the Code Talkers] found it puzzling that the same government that had tried to take away their languages in schools later gave them a critical role speaking their languages in military service,” recounts the National Museum of the American Indian.
In addition to the Northern Arapaho in Wyoming, the Rosebud Sioux of South Dakota and native people of Alaska are also seeking the return of children’s remains from Carlisle, reports Philly.com. Yet if the results of Northern Arapaho’s search are any example, this may prove to be quite difficult.
Yufna Soldier Wolf wipes away tears while kneeling at the grave of her great-grandfather, Chief Sharp Nose of the Northern Arapaho Tribe, at the family cemetery on the Wind River Reservation near Riverton, Wyoming.
Dan Cepeda/The Casper Star-Tribune/AP Photo
On August 14, 2017, the Army sent the remains of Little Chief and Horse back to their relatives on the Wind River Reservation. The Northern Arapaho will bury them on August 18, 2017. Little Plume, however, was not sent back because he wasn’t found. In what was supposed to be his coffin, archaeologists instead discovered the bones of two others who couldn’t have been Little Plume because their ages didn’t match his.
Researchers aren’t sure who those two people are or where Little Plume could be, and the Northern Arapaho haven’t stated whether they’ll continue to search for him. For now, the Army has reburied the two people found in his coffin, and Little Plume remains one of Carlisle’s many missing children.
I watched it, and it seemed quite suspicious. Most of the iffiest aspects were just speculations by the BBC journalist. They weren't shown. Even the "suspicious" fact that people weren't getting out was proven wrong later.
The school part was exactly as I remember China. You can just walk by any school and hear children repeat word after word, sing and dance, like the people in the video. And it's not just children: the same goes for universities. I was shocked when I first arrived and my students (in their second year of University -19-20 y.o.) tried to repeat what I was saying, or write an essay with practically the same words as everyone else. It took a while to convince them NOT to do that. That's a topic for another discussion (I do think they are overworked and "programmed", but not in the way the video portrayed).
Notice how this "prison" was not only about the wonders of the Chinese government, praising the system, etc. They were also singing and talking in their native language. They were dressing in their ethnic costumes, etc.
As for the "radical thoughts" they were trying to remove, there's too little in the video to say anything. But overall, it seems way milder than what they do in European prisons, and waaaaaayyy milder than the methods used by the US. So, I am left with the feeling that it's mostly propaganda. They ARE probably doing evil stuff, but that video is no proof, IMO. I heard worse stories, but once again, not much compared to, any CIA experiment that we know of.
Yes, it's hard to imagine. Even with what I wrote above, I don't think any future with one country at the top would be good. Even China and Russia, once the current leaders go...
I haven't watched the BBC programme but my Mum's partner messaged me yesterday after having watched it and proceeded to tell me he didn't realise how bad China was, that it thinks it's the "master race" and so on. I reckon that was the response it was intended to illcit. Thankfully he's pretty open minded - if a tad reactionary! - so i sent him some thoughts and an article. The BBC is notorious for being the propaganda arm of the British government and hit pieces are part of the regular programming.
Whilst i agree nowhere is paradise and, in the end, any regime with a lot of power will likely, eventually, succumb to ponerization and be a hell for its citizens (especially if it has hi-tech surveillance), as it is, China is probably lower on my list of countries to be concerned about.
As for the social credit system, i think that they may be attempting to recreate what naturally occurs in a village setting; people earn their reputation by their deeds. The problem is that with large cities and an increasingly mobile population knowing your neighbour is less likely, and so in comes something like China's social credits system, made possible by the latest tech. I get the feeling that's what some in China are attempting to do, and perhaps it also reflects how they perceive society should be structured - although i couldn't say for sure.
In regards to the programme, i sent my mum's partner the following article which, as i understand it, goes some way to explain the back story and the situation China is facing. In short, there's a Muslim population that the Chinese state is attempting to integrate into society in an attempt to stave off any sabotage. We know that deep state actors weaponize minority populations and so, understandably, this is one of the concerns. Another seems to be that, when times become more difficult, a lack of integration, especially when the other culture is very different, any issues can become much more problematic, much easier and escalate much faster than if there's a feeling of loyalty and affinity to the country and local community. If we look at what's happening in Europe, it's currently experiencing a problem similar to that which the Chinese are attempt to prevent.
So, as noted in the article below, there's good reason for China being so 'proactive', and these camps are probably not as bad as they're being made out to be, for the majority of people, because that would actually be counter-productive:
Whilst i agree nowhere is paradise and, in the end, any regime with a lot of power will likely, eventually, succumb to ponerization and be a hell for its citizens (especially if it has hi-tech surveillance), as it is, China is probably lower on my list of countries to be concerned about.
As for the social credit system, i think that they may be attempting to recreate what naturally occurs in a village setting; people earn their reputation by their deeds. The problem is that with large cities and an increasingly mobile population knowing your neighbour is less likely, and so in comes something like China's social credits system, made possible by the latest tech. I get the feeling that's what some in China are attempting to do, and perhaps it also reflects how they perceive society should be structured - although i couldn't say for sure.
In regards to the programme, i sent my mum's partner the following article which, as i understand it, goes some way to explain the back story and the situation China is facing. In short, there's a Muslim population that the Chinese state is attempting to integrate into society in an attempt to stave off any sabotage. We know that deep state actors weaponize minority populations and so, understandably, this is one of the concerns. Another seems to be that, when times become more difficult, a lack of integration, especially when the other culture is very different, any issues can become much more problematic, much easier and escalate much faster than if there's a feeling of loyalty and affinity to the country and local community. If we look at what's happening in Europe, it's currently experiencing a problem similar to that which the Chinese are attempt to prevent.
So, as noted in the article below, there's good reason for China being so 'proactive', and these camps are probably not as bad as they're being made out to be, for the majority of people, because that would actually be counter-productive:
Last edited:
Indeed, itellsya! There is also the fact that China has the problem of "gigantism", as described by Lobaczewski. But once again, compared to what the US has done during his "Empire", I tend to think that it's not as bad. In fact, it makes it vulnerable to outside intervention, which is what I think they are trying to prevent. In spite of the rumors, I rarely saw a country where minorities were so accepted. To me they seem as integrated as they could, meaning that they all need to know Mandarin as a second language and in writing, for example, but because they really ARE different, they are left alone to do their thing as long as they respect the basic rules of the country.
Reminds of what Putin said during the Financial Times interview:
www.sott.net
Actually, the population is over 1.4 billion people.
Complete Video And Transcript of Putin Interview With The Financial Times
Comment: We're re-running this because the FT has (finally) published the full video interview with English captions. Anyway, here it is, the moment Putin, among other things, declared the end of 'peak liberal ascendancy'... We got this from the...
www.sott.net
Actually, the population is over 1.4 billion people.
angelburst29
The Living Force
BRICS summit in November to be another step towards consolidation of this format — Lavrov
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov © Alexander Shcherbak/TASS
RIO DE JANEIRO, July 26, 2019 - The next BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) summit due to be held in the Brazilian capital city on November 13-14 will be another step towards strengthening this multilateral format, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said on Friday ahead of a meeting with his Brazilian counterpart Ernesto Araujo.
"We had a very open and sincere discussion that yielded a joint statement reiterating our commitment to the United Nations Charter. We have no doubts that the summit in November will be yet another step towards consolidation of this format," he said.
The Brazilian top diplomat, in turn, pledged that his country would spare no effort to ensure successful presidency in the association.
"We reached progress on many issues at this meeting and found understanding on the majority of topics. We value our relations with Russia. Brazil is now living through a period when we are trying to become a country more open to the world," Araujo said.
Russia to host BRICS summit in 2020
OSAKA /Japan/, June 28, 2019 - Russia will host the BRICS summit in the summer of 2020, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Friday at a meeting with his South African counterpart Cyril Ramaphosa on the sidelines of the G20 summit.
"In November, we will have to work together in Brazil within BRICS [Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa - TASS], and next summer we will hold another meeting of the group of five nations in Russia," Putin noted.
He also invited the South African leader to attend the Russia-Africa summit scheduled to be held in the Russian Black Sea resort of Sochi on October 24.
"We count on your help, Mr. President, during preparations for that summit," Putin added.
He congratulated his counterpart on winning the election in South Africa and his re-election as president in May. The Russian leader assured that close cooperation between the two countries on the global stage would continue, while the experience of previous cooperation would develop in the future.
Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov © Alexander Shcherbak/TASS
RIO DE JANEIRO, July 26, 2019 - The next BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa) summit due to be held in the Brazilian capital city on November 13-14 will be another step towards strengthening this multilateral format, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said on Friday ahead of a meeting with his Brazilian counterpart Ernesto Araujo.
"We had a very open and sincere discussion that yielded a joint statement reiterating our commitment to the United Nations Charter. We have no doubts that the summit in November will be yet another step towards consolidation of this format," he said.
The Brazilian top diplomat, in turn, pledged that his country would spare no effort to ensure successful presidency in the association.
"We reached progress on many issues at this meeting and found understanding on the majority of topics. We value our relations with Russia. Brazil is now living through a period when we are trying to become a country more open to the world," Araujo said.
Russia to host BRICS summit in 2020
OSAKA /Japan/, June 28, 2019 - Russia will host the BRICS summit in the summer of 2020, Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Friday at a meeting with his South African counterpart Cyril Ramaphosa on the sidelines of the G20 summit.
"In November, we will have to work together in Brazil within BRICS [Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa - TASS], and next summer we will hold another meeting of the group of five nations in Russia," Putin noted.
He also invited the South African leader to attend the Russia-Africa summit scheduled to be held in the Russian Black Sea resort of Sochi on October 24.
"We count on your help, Mr. President, during preparations for that summit," Putin added.
He congratulated his counterpart on winning the election in South Africa and his re-election as president in May. The Russian leader assured that close cooperation between the two countries on the global stage would continue, while the experience of previous cooperation would develop in the future.
