Carbon/Satan: the same word, the same entity

Axel_Dunor said:
timothykey said:
Pasteur just knew that it worked as a theory and explained a lot about disease, helped a great deal, and it did prove to be correct.
Pasteur proposed a theory, he defined experiment parameters, conducted replicable experiments confirming his theory, published measurable results...

Pasteur applied a scientific approach to his work and in some cases he was objectively right.

I guess that along this path, he had to discard many theories that seemed initially promising, he had to get rid of sacred cows and beliefs (maybe the most seductive ones), he had to design and conduct experiments illustrating his theories, he had to interact with his pairs during experimental and results publication phases.
Would that it were possible, or even reasonable, to use the sort of scientific approach you suggest to every theory proposed on this site. But obviously it is not.
For the curious, the serious seeker, the connections, the seeds of Whitestones's book, in fertile minds takes root. With me it took a while before I decided that it just made more sense, (like Occom's Razor) than another hypothesis. From then on, it just becomes more apparent, IMHO.

Tim
 
Mr. Key also posted a message in the following thread "is anti-smoking about to take a backseat to obesity?" that I think is relevant to this discussion and fits into the "carbon repertoire".

timothy: I pointed out in an earlier thread that your "carbon equals 6-6-6" description is not correct because of the fact that you count protons twice. Then you also seem to ignore neutrons, which as Ruth pointed out vary depending on the isotope.

This numbering seems to be a foundation of your arguments. Why should I believe any conclusions you base on it? Be it carbon is satan or your claim that humans will be squeezed for oil.

It seems to me that you have some fixed beliefs that remind me of Jehovah's witnesses. In their case everything can be explained with the bible. Here it seems like that has been replaced by carbon.

Have you not wondered about why people don't "get it" with respect to the message of this book that you reference (and apparently worked on)?
 
Domivr wrote: timothy: I pointed out in an earlier thread that your "carbon equals 6-6-6" description is not correct because of the fact that you count protons twice.

Tim's reply:

Thank you for including this in the carbon/satan discussion.
I am sorry, but I thought that Ruth had answered your inquiry sufficiently when she pointed out the number of parts to the complete carbon architecture is: 6 neutrons, 6 protons, and 6 electrons, or 6-6-6. This is not counting protons twice. She then went on to point our the isotopes of carbon but I have no explanation for these exceptions to the rule. The numbers listed in the periodic table is substantially correct. I am sure she will agree.

Again, am sorry that this may seem Bible oriented or preachy. The information here and in Whitestone's book is a rediscovery of the possible relevance in what the Bible says. I assure you, no one could be more surprised at this. There is an understandable involuntary reflex when the Bible is quoted; I think this is because it has been so abused by unprincipled and ignorant people to try to take advantage of others. It is difficult to get a fair hearing on this issue for that reason. Hearing chapter and verse quoted is almost unbearable to some. I can only suggest that the portions quoted in the book be looked upon as archeological remains of an old culture which is the supposed wisdom passed along by a religious sect. Nothing more nor less. It is old, and it must have meant something.
The Bible has been represented as containing important truths unknowable by men. This is a case where they have been discovered and it makes one look again at the text.
Unfortunate condition in our culture but hope that it does not completely blind people to something significant.


Tim
 
Although I begin to understand what you try to convey between the lines, I still point out that your argumentation on the basis of chemical elements is unsustainable as pointed out before:
timothykey said:
My computer seems to be free from selfishness.:-) Maybe silicon chips are promising vehilces for consciousness.
Lan8r said:
It appears to me that silicon chips can be very selfish.
Computers are not necessarily dependent on silicon. For example, the Cray-3 supercomputer in 1993 was the first to be completely manufactured on Gallium Arsenide GaAs substrates. So, the essence of computer behaviour is independent of the implementation chemistry. It is defined only by pure mathematics / boolean algebra.

This is a bit out of context, but needs comments:
Lan8r said:
And if I try to reason with it, all I get is 'an error has occured, the system is shutting down'. It doesn't even want to to try to work things out!
This is a known characteristic of a mainstream operating system environment we all know too well. (Begins with M, ends with icrosoft) Again, this is not a chemistry-related issue, but cheap computer programming. There are other operating systems out there, that are far more reliable, flexible and will happily tell you what went wrong.

Lan8r said:
It is very demanding, always wanting more, more, more.... More RAM, a bigger hard drive, a better operating system. Not to mention all the programs it requires just to function.
This is the number one marketing strategy in the computer industry today, conveyed in a brainwashing fashion by all kinds of media. Computers are already fast enough for everyday use. It is the mainstream software industry that irresponibly wastes hardware resources. Mainstream Software and Hardware vendors play together because it is the main means of earning money.
 
Carbon/Satan
Harvesting the Vineyards (excerpt)

In Revelations there is the conclusion whereby two angels having sickles, as they are called, are sent forth to "harvest the vineyards for they are fully ripe". The meaning of this has been explained to me and can be understand when you learn more about the ripening process of carbon life forms.
When organisms reach a certain maturity, genes trigger their cells to begin to release a hormone known as ethylene. This causes their metabolism to change over from the production of structural tissues used for growth, to the production of sugars and fats for storage. This is then deposited in the organism for use during Winter here on Earth, or for the food for other species and the dispersion of seeds which can be contained within its "fruiting body".
The human species, through its industry, predictably began the production of ethylenes around WW II, the 1940s, making plastic food wraps, or polyethylene bags, films, and food storage containers. This was also a time of rapid petroleum sbsorption. Remember Tupperware? Almost everything humans eat is now filled with ethylenes and it saturates human tissue. It works well, and the result of course has prompted the organs of our food industry to produce sugars and oils, and for the public to grow increasingly fat, due to the higher hormone levels in the individuals, which also makes them each convert all their food to fats. This phenomena is not yet recognized by human scientists.
 
Fruit Ripening

In prior discussions, we have learned how the fruit grows to achieve full size, and that there are a diversity of fruit types among the flowering plants. Now we will focus specifically on fleshy fruits. The fruit is full size but it is green and immature...events must now happen to cause it to ripen so that it is attractive and rewarding for an animal to carry it off...dispersing the seeds.

In the diagram above on the left is an unripe fruit. It is hard, green, sour, has no smell, is mealy (starch present), and so on. Sometimes we crave such a combination of characteristics...a 'Granny Smith' apple has many of those. Such fruits are similar to celery or other vegetables, and so are not appealing at other times.
My pet peeve is unripe pears. Most cafeterias serve pears to students that are absolutely green, hard, sour, mealy, and lacking aroma. These are better for driving nails than for eating...in my opinion. Worse is the fact that many cafeterias will not let you take such a fruit back to your dorm room to let it ripen! They actually expect you to eat it like that. (More later!).
The way fruits ripen is that there is commonly a ripening signal...a burst of ethylene production. Ethylene is a simple hydrocarbon gas (H2C=CH2) that ripening fruits make and shed into the atmosphere. Sometimes a wound will cause rapid ethylene production...thus picking a fruit will sometimes signal it to ripen...as will an infection of bacteria or fungi on the fruit. This ethylene signal causes developmental changes that result in fruit ripening.
New enzymes are made because of the ethylene signal. These include hydrolases to help break down chemicals inside the fruits, amylases to accelerate hydrolysis of starch into sugar, pectinases to catalyze degradation of pectin (the glue between cells), and so on. Ethylene apparently "turns on" the genes that are then transcribed and translated to make these enzymes. The enzymes then catalyze reactions to alter the characteristics of the fruit.
The action of the enzymes cause the ripening responses. Chlorophyll is broken down and sometimes new pigments are made so that the fruit skin changes color from green to red, yellow, or blue. Acids are broken down so that the fruit changes from sour to neutral. The degradation of starch by amylase produces sugar. This reduces the mealy (floury) quality and increases juiciness (by osmosis, a process we will study later). The breakdown of pectin, thanks to pectinase, between the fruit cells unglues them so they can slip past each other. That results in a softer fruit...at an extreme, pectin losses may make a fruit "pithy". Also enzymes break down large organic molecules into smaller ones that can be volatile (evaporate into the air) and we can detect as an aroma.
If you think of this process in pears, the ethylene signal causes the fruit to change from green to yellow, from hard to soft, from mealy to juicy, from tart to sweet, from odorless to fragrant. If you have never experienced a ripe pear, you have really missed a sensory delight! It is marvelous.
How can you assist fruit ripening? First let me tell you that bananas are shipped to the US as hard, green, sour, unripened fruits. They ship better that way. They arrive into a distributor's warehouse without bruises. The bananas are put in a room and gassed with ethylene. They all begin to ripen. You buy them at the store and within a few days the ripening process is so rapid that the bananas are "over the hill" before you can eat them all.
By the way, you can allow the bananas to ripen to the stage you like them and then put them in the refrigerator. This slows the ripening process down drastically. For several days after that you can take bananas from the refrigerator and enjoy the fruit inside. Please note: the skin will turn very dark in color after only a short time in the refrigerator...you can ignore that...the fruit inside remains just as it was before you put the banana into the refrigerator.
The ripening bananas produce so much ethylene that you can use them as a tool to ripen other fruits. Take those green pears home and put them on the shelf in a paper bag with a banana. The banana at room temperature produces ethylene that will signal the green pears to start ripening immediately. The paper bag holds the ethylene in stagnant air around the fruits, yet allows oxygen to go into the bag for respiration in the fruits...needed to make the enzymes! In just a few days the pears should be ready to eat! You can do the same with avocados.
Finally this stimulated ripening process helps explain the old phrase, "one bad apple spoils the bunch." In the olden days, apples were packed into barrels for storage in a root cellar. The cool temperature of the cellar helped keep the apples from ripening until the family wanted to eat them during the winter. However in packing the barrel with apples you had to be careful not to put any wormy or fungus-infected apples with the bunch. Why? Because the wounded, infested apple would produce ethylene inside the barrel. If you came back in a month, all the apples in the barrel would be too-ripe (bruised by weight, soft, mushy, etc.) because they responded to that ethylene!
Today we store fruits in cold temperatures and cycle the atmosphere in the warehouse through charcoal filters to adsorb any ethylene being made by any "bad apples" in the building! This way we can enjoy apples year-round.

Koning, Ross E. 1994. Fruit Ripening. Plant Physiology Information Website.
http://plantphys.info/plants_human/fruitgrowripe.html. (11-3-2006).
 
timothykey, apologies for having to ask, but what is your point with these latest posts? - could you try to be a bit more clear, please.
 
It is fine that you ask. If you need clarification, then others will as well, am sure. The thread of this discussin is the cooincidence in meanings between the word, Satan, as used in Biblical texts, and in the word, Carbon, as modern physicists are learn to understand it to be, and how it builds orgainisms to sustain itself on the Earth, in in this universe. The two latest entries are about the characteristics of carbon life to mature and enter that state of "ripening" where the organism switches, through he manufacture of ethylene, from the production of structural materials, to production of sugars and fats.
The human society has reached this point and is producing an "overweight and obese" population, just at the time when the access to fertilizers are high, and just when this source of energy is about to decline (the egg yoke of the Earth). As in other parts of the book of Revelations, this is mentioned with the order to "harvest of the Earth... for it is ripe". There is good reason to believe that such a harvest is likely: for economic reasons, and for spiritual reasons.
(More discussion on this can be seen in the forum article at: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3732)

That is all. It is only for your interest. The history of the Earth as it is clearly written within Revelations, (as discussed in the book, Raving of a Lunatic) suggests that the vast majority of humanity will soon be eliminated by harvesting. The article about ripening is another indicator to readers who might want to look more carefully at consequences in natual development, natural selection, and how they fit in, as a member of the "carbon community". I find that humans seem to have this odd perception that they are somehow "exempt" and special in some way which excuses their behavior toward other life species, and in some why they feel spiritually superior as well. Why is this?
Do they think that they are exempt from the over riding laws of thermal dynamics? The laws of consevation of energy, the awareness that carbon has only the interest in increasing itself at the expense of all others?
It is only the spiritual man that can survive, and they are those who have practiced that thier bodies are the temple of the soul. They are those who fast to keep the appitite in check. These are basic spiritual concepts which have long been lost by this civilization. Perhaps it would be humane to mention the benefits again.

Tim
 
Axel_Dunor said:
timothykey said:
Pasteur just knew that it worked as a theory and explained a lot about disease, helped a great deal, and it did prove to be correct.
Pasteur proposed a theory, he defined experiment parameters, conducted replicable experiments confirming his theory, published measurable results...

Pasteur applied a scientific approach to his work and in some cases he was objectively right.

I guess that along this path, he had to discard many theories that seemed initially promising, he had to get rid of sacred cows and beliefs (maybe the most seductive ones), he had to design and conduct experiments illustrating his theories, he had to interact with his pairs during experimental and results publication phases.
Was Pasteur objectively right?!

Pasteur's theories about infectious organisms have become foundation of modern microbiology and conscutive all medical studies be it human or veterinary.
Unfortunately there is a glitch, there are some occurences within infectious pathological process that do not fit into Pasteur's theories and aproach. These occurence become obvious to anyone practicing medicine but official scientific comunity is systematically sweeping these "freak" evidences under the carpet.
It seems Pasteur died unsure of his own approach.
only when I delved into studies of homeopathy I have found this, they never mention it at university :

"Western Medicine has adopted the Newtonian-reductionistic-materialistic paradigm to modern biology. Louis Pasteur contributed to medicine with the doctrine that specific diseases are caused by specific microbes. His germ theory of disease fit well with the view that the body as a machine can have a breakdown traced back to the malfunctioning of a single mechanism. Today the science of cellular and molecular biology is the foundation of medicine. The doctor intervenes with medication or surgery to correct the malfunction of a particular mechanism. The science of chemistry has been very successful in many areas of medicine, as exemplified by penicillin in the 1950s. Consequently, medical research has looked for other chemical "silver bullets" for present day diseases such as cancer, heart disease, and AIDS. But USA's ranking of 37th by the World Health Organization in terms our incidence and mortality rates of these diseases shows how unsuccessful we have been.

Louis Pasteur admitted on his death bed that he emphasized the wrong thing. Rather, "the terrain not the germ" was important in the treatment of disease. He meant that the body, the terrain, as a whole with all of its marvelous defense mechanisms, needed to be optimized. Microbes are always within our bodies, and our environment. This holistic paradigm believes that people with inefficient immunity systems fall prey to these germs. Medicine could look at a person as a whole, not look for some specific chemical "silver bullet" to destroy some specific germ "invading" our body. It seems that Pasteur had shifted at the time of his death from the Newtonian-reductionistic-materialistic to the Einstein-holistic paradigm."
 
I have at home, in my book by Michel Dogna "Take your Health in Hand", a complete file about Pasteur, the history of an imposture. It tells how Pasteur stole Toussaint and Bechamp's work and had it attributed to him. This information, called : "Pasteur, the Staline of medicine" is taken from "Les Verites Indesirables" from Philippe Decourt. It's a pretty big text. I'll translate it as soon as I have the time and put it in the Diet and Health section.
 
Prayers for rain said:
I have at home, in my book by Michel Dogna "Take your Health in Hand", a complete file about Pasteur, the history of an imposture. It tells how Pasteur stole Toussaint and Bechamp's work and had it attributed to him. This information, called : "Pasteur, the Staline of medicine" is taken from "Les Verites Indesirables" from Philippe Decourt. It's a pretty big text. I'll translate it as soon as I have the time and put it in the Diet and Health section.
I am looking forward to this prayer
 
Am happya to hear people's comments and that they are thinking about this. Whether it was Pasteur who's theories identified microorganisms as causing specific diseases, or someone else, the fact is, that in many cases, they do. There may be many other considerations, factors which contribute, but this one piece of knowledge led to the transformation of environments with an emphasis upon cleanliness and sterility to reduce the spread of disease. It works, and this understanding greatly increased humans abilities to stop the spread of disease.
So too does the comparison ot Carbon with the Biblical "Satan". In the description of the over riding influence it exerts in its natural, unmitigated aggregation of power in biological form, whether as a virus, a cell, a tissue, an organ, an organism, an organization, a corporation, a nation, or a multinational; the tendency toward self propagation and dominance in competition with all others is paramount. It uses the stored energy of carbon source to finance itself, and attempts to subvert the "spiritual values". It convinces the spiritual nature that the biological life is all that there is. This is what the Bible is telling us, over and over again.
Perhaps others would find it interesting to find examples for themselves by reading it. The Bible terribly out of fashion just now, so it would be really a whole new and totally cool switch to become "in" with a fresh look at an old text. My intent with discussing this with this forum comes from my amazement at the knowledge contained in it, and which could not possibly have been known by humans living at that time, based upon what we know of scientific advances of 150 AD. It proves to me that the information therein is older than our civilization. This is the first proof I have ever seen of life outside this planet. That is exciting to me.
Oh yes, the discussion of Pasteur: I do not know whether or not he is responsible for germ theory, but the idea was a fine insight, and a completely new theory in its time.
 
timothykey, you seem to be a bit obsessed with this whole carbon/satan thing. Have you considered the probability that you're mistaken - or at the very least, seeing connections and meanings where they might not be?
 
But you see, you are missing the whole point, you are relying on microbiological dogma

The point is not wether Pasteur had copied someone else's theories or not
The point is that he has admitted himself that he is not sure if microorganisms are causing the disease. He said on his death bed that he was wrong.

Tha fact that microorganisms are always present in certain pathological conditons can also be explained in the following manner
The microbes are everywhere and you can never eradicate them. Normal living organism will sooner or later but inevitably come in contact with most of the species of bacteria that live in his environment. If the organism is healthy they will not cause any problems and we will not be able to find their significant presence in such organism.
But if the organism or organ, or tissue is initially weakened by disease proces caused by some other disturbances in balance then the microorganism will find a perfect breeding ground, take over and contribute the clinical picture of the illness. hence we find specific microorganism in specific organic systems in specific illneses.

Appearently Pasteur has become aware shortly before his death that his theory about mirobs causing the diseases was totally wrong to start with
 
Dear All

I join the discusion mid-way but i think i may add something at least to the number 6-6-6 which is the number of the beast. I will agree with most that carbon has nothing to do with the number or satan. And in order nto to be completly negative without adding something 'positive' according to some the 666 is the name of a person. Let me explain. All latin characters are numbers at the same time (crosswords addicts know that very well..) therefore the anti-christs name (english/french/american or whatever) translated in latin and adding it up will add up to 666.

It is just a theory or rather an opinion...

Looking forward to follow what follows...
 
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