Caricature of Love

[Miss.K]

MY question is, if you really lived that long, what would be the ratio of years lived to years forgotten? If you are worried about having a long lifetime, the next natural step is to think about having a good memory. Our memory is hardly sufficient for the number of years we have even now.

Perhaps our memory would be better if we ate right from birth?

 

[monotonic]

Probably, but keeping memory also depends on what we DO with that memory, our ability to properly "receive the present", and our state of being. Perhaps, when someone has the right state of being, years lived or not lived is not an obstacle?

 

[Thaigrr]

But when thinking of learning crafts, like playing instruments really well, or painting, or mathematics, or dancing flamengo, or even martial arts, then I think life is too short. It's difficult to learn how to do something really well in that time, and so one can only choose 1 or 2 things to try to get really good at, and there are so many things that would be nice to experience how to do..

Perhaps these thoughts are born of having experienced these disciplines sometime in your "prior existences". It would be unfortunate if this would be detrimental to soul growth.

I don't understand. Why would it be detrimental to my soul growth if I had experienced those disciplines in a prior existence?

It is the awareness (conscious or not) of our mortality that pushes us, as individuals or as a species, to do things, to make choices, to make plans, etc. An immortal person with our level of consciousness would be eternally postponing things (no rush at all) and I'm not even sure a soul would be interested in experiencing nothing through such an incarnation, which is why it is interesting that vampires have no reflections in mirrors (knowledge of the self). In some aspects, it is this awareness of mortality that defines humans.

I do agree that our mortality is (at least part of) what makes the short time we have so precious, and knowing that we will lose the people we love sooner or later, makes us (at least if we think about it) treasure them more.
But haven't the C's talked about that people used to live longer once? I remember something like 900 years. That would be more fitting IMO. It takes maybe 10.000 hours to learn something really well, and there is just no time to learn much in 70 or 80 years, specially given that one is a kid for the first 20 years, and then the last 20 years the body might not be able to keep up. which leaves only 30 or 40 years in which one has to spend the majority of the time making money to just be able to survive, and if one has a little time after also washing clothes and cleaning and cooking, then one is usually too tired to start dancing flamengo...

I don't think I would postpone more if I had more time, I think that I would aim to learn more than now, because as it is now I know that I won't be able to fit more into the time I have, and so if I want to keep up with politics, it means that I won't be able to learn how to tango, or visa versa. And there is so many things I would like to fit in..

Maybe there is a distinction to be made between wants and needs.

Some "wants" may be STS distractions whereas "needs" can be more in sync with STO?

 

[Laura]

MY question is, if you really lived that long, what would be the ratio of years lived to years forgotten? If you are worried about having a long lifetime, the next natural step is to think about having a good memory. Our memory is hardly sufficient for the number of years we have even now.

Memory is part of the problem for me. I remember about everything and the burden is almost insupportable.

 

[casper]

MY question is, if you really lived that long, what would be the ratio of years lived to years forgotten? If you are worried about having a long lifetime, the next natural step is to think about having a good memory. Our memory is hardly sufficient for the number of years we have even now.

Memory is part of the problem for me. I remember about everything and the burden is almost insupportable.

Make peace with your past and live in the present, it is the only remedy

 

[Divide by Zero]

Memory is part of the problem for me. I remember about everything and the burden is almost insupportable.

Make peace with your past and live in the present, it is the only remedy

I don't think she meant it that way. If you have a good memory, it's hard to repeat cycles. They become monotonous and tiring.
If we didn't have good memory, every day would feel joyful and new. I hate to judge, but I feel like being a "young soul" must be more exciting- everything is new and exciting! But if you knew how it turns out- would you feel as motivated?

Example: a new employee at XYZ corp- excited to climb the ladder of success... motivated- excited- even the set backs won't stop them.

Example2: You remember when you climbed the corporate ladder- and saw how up top things are not as rosy as they seemed from below. You have little motivation to do what you have to do for this goal that really didn't fulfill you in the past anyway! (Trinity tells Neo in The Matrix when he wants to leave the car: "Because you have been down there, Neo. You know that road. You know exactly where it ends. And I know that's not where you want to be.")


The C's said that "simple karmic lessons" as the criteria for graduating from 3d. What exactly is karma? Maybe it is some sort of soul memory that we sometimes choose to forget- and repeat lessons. If you knew that you were a good martial artist, or painter before- at what point do you move on to new lessons?

The book, 30 Years Among the Dead, it is shown that many dead people are still motivated by things that may very well give them a reason to return- to "make things right", "do better", or "get revenge" and so on. If you connect what the C's said to that, it seems like they still need to learn their karmic lessons- by coming back again and again to fulfill something they still hold on to.

Memory, knowledge would be a way our of this "karmic wheel".

 

[Renaissance]

Probably, but keeping memory also depends on what we DO with that memory, our ability to properly "receive the present", and our state of being. Perhaps, when someone has the right state of being, years lived or not lived is not an obstacle?

I was thinking along similar lines. The difficulty in accumulating knowledge and Doing what needs to be done seems relates more to our level of being rather than time constraints. Some people have been able to organize their lives where they can accomplish a great deal, and they are faced with the same issues of time as everyone else. Even if we lived hundreds of years, we'd most likely still be faced with those same issues of 'not having enough time' until we learn how to Do in the Gurdjieffian sense.

 

[Psalehesost]

I personally like the fantasy of being a vampire, not in order to be a psycho, but to live forever (or a very long time) so that I would have time to do all the things I'd like to do, like learning to play the piano, or to learn mathematics, or whatever I think would be cool to learn, but don't have time to in the short lifespan of a human. (and also never get sick or physically weak)

I've lost motivation to do "all the things" I might be interested in. Even if possible, for the most part it would be empty - nothing but a complicated form of entertainment and self-aggrandizement. There's the learning that contributes to understanding reality - and things learned in all kinds of areas can contribute to that - but beyond a certain point, exploration (of one or more areas) that remains stuck at the same fundamental "level" becomes stale and just a thing of detail, empty and dissociative.

After exploring all the general aspects of human life, in terms of learning, an overly long life on Earth would offer only that: empty exploration of detail.

EDIT: And if we look at what it means to stay alive and live in a human body, it's an endlessly repeating task of stuffing the body with food and water, sleeping, getting up, etc. - and many daily routines. If there's no deeper meaning to live for - nothing truly worthwhile doing - then that daily "maintenance" would become an ever-lasting unpleasant chore. For what? Just hanging around in a fairly useless bag of meat directed by a slow, befuddled brain.

Memory is part of the problem for me. I remember about everything and the burden is almost insupportable.

I would guess that what you mean relates to the misery, suffering, destruction and death being wreaked all around the world. And the ignorance, stupid decisions, humanity not learning a thing. Everything slowly falling apart. Were a person to live long enough, they would experience cycle after cycle of history repeating itself. Provided conscience remained awake, it might turn into some kind of slow and ever-lasting torture.

 

[mkrnhr]

To learn/experience in its large sense is always worth the effort. It is not only for the separate selves we think we are, but being knowledge/information processing units, it also serves the purpose of the universe. We are experiencing the short wave cycle ( http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=359&lsel= ) and all we can do in this state is to do/be the best we can with what we have. Also, this subject is related to the concept of Acceptance discussed in this thread: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,37387.0.html

 

[casper]

Memory is part of the problem for me. I remember about everything and the burden is almost insupportable.

Make peace with your past and live in the present, it is the only remedy

I don't think she meant it that way. If you have a good memory, it's hard to repeat cycles. They become monotonous and tiring.
If we didn't have good memory, every day would feel joyful and new. I hate to judge, but I feel like being a "young soul" must be more exciting- everything is new and exciting! But if you knew how it turns out- would you feel as motivated?

Example: a new employee at XYZ corp- excited to climb the ladder of success... motivated- excited- even the set backs won't stop them.

Example2: You remember when you climbed the corporate ladder- and saw how up top things are not as rosy as they seemed from below. You have little motivation to do what you have to do for this goal that really didn't fulfill you in the past anyway! (Trinity tells Neo in The Matrix when he wants to leave the car: "Because you have been down there, Neo. You know that road. You know exactly where it ends. And I know that's not where you want to be.")


The C's said that "simple karmic lessons" as the criteria for graduating from 3d. What exactly is karma? Maybe it is some sort of soul memory that we sometimes choose to forget- and repeat lessons. If you knew that you were a good martial artist, or painter before- at what point do you move on to new lessons?

The book, 30 Years Among the Dead, it is shown that many dead people are still motivated by things that may very well give them a reason to return- to "make things right", "do better", or "get revenge" and so on. If you connect what the C's said to that, it seems like they still need to learn their karmic lessons- by coming back again and again to fulfill something they still hold on to.

Memory, knowledge would be a way our of this "karmic wheel".

Misunderstood, I wanted to say that sometimes memories (good memory) can be a big weight that will not let us move forward, because we have learned a lesson convert (if negative) in your brain in a positive (or else the weight pressure on us and will not give us that float to the surface).

 

[Miss.K]

Maybe there is a distinction to be made between wants and needs.

Some "wants" may be STS distractions whereas "needs" can be more in sync with STO?

I don't know if wanting to create something of beauty is STS. I guess anything that one can want is STS in a way. Even saving the world when one sees the horror I guess in a way is STS as it comes from feeling terrible due to watching the horror and wanting to feel good instead of terrible? I'm not stating anything, as I'm really not sure what the truth about it is, but I think the subject is very interesting, and that it is interesting to explore.

I've lost motivation to do "all the things" I might be interested in. Even if possible, for the most part it would be empty - nothing but a complicated form of entertainment and self-aggrandizement. There's the learning that contributes to understanding reality - and things learned in all kinds of areas can contribute to that - but beyond a certain point, exploration (of one or more areas) that remains stuck at the same fundamental "level" becomes stale and just a thing of detail, empty and dissociative.

After exploring all the general aspects of human life, in terms of learning, an overly long life on Earth would offer only that: empty exploration of detail.

I felt like that for a long time.
And while I felt like that I started to work on getting better at drawing, and got good enough to see how far I was from being able to create something really good, and that is why I started to need more time.

I think for me wanting to create something of beauty to counteract the ugliness is my personal resistance movement in a way.
I often think of a line from the prison letter V got in the movie, and later gives to Eve, "for 2 years I had roses" And I want to create "roses"
I know that the end is ugly (even without psychopaths, and disasters one just gets old, suffer from pains as the body gives up, suffer loss as loved one dies, and then one dies), and I want to be able to say I had roses when I die (even if it's just one little rose) And I want to leave a small mark of beauty in the ugliness, and it takes time to get good enough to actually make something really beautiful (unless one is a rose)

On "TheWallWillFall" facebook Palestine front page I saw this:
Old man: You paint the wall, you make it look beautiful. Banksy: Thanks. Old man: We don’t want it to be beautiful, we hate this wall, go home.

And I understand.
But even though human life feels like a big open air prison, I wouldn't apply this to everything.

I think that if I don't try to make life worthwhile, and if I just see the ugliness of 3D existence, while I wait to have evolved to be able to go somewhere else. If I don't participate in creating something of beauty (this can also be dancing and smiling with other people) and if I just look at smiling and dancing or painting etc. as empty exploration of detail, then the road leads to nothingness in my view. No creation, no smiles, no dancing, no warmth...just cold intellect.

Without those things, I don't really know why it would be important to save the world. I mean if the best thing one can do is to suffer terribly, so that one understands that one has to get out of this world, and stop doing anything that isn't gathering information on the escape route, then I guess things are perfect as they are, as the state of the world will make most sane people suffer terribly and want to get out.

When I hear someone say "Bring the comets!" I understand (and I have said those words myself when at times the politicians do something extra ridiculously evil and stupid)
But whenever I hear it (or have said it) I think that I don't really mean it, or want it, as I wouldn't want to kill off billions of people just because I think life sucks..(then I would prefer just to kill myself)

I generally think there is more suffering than goodness, both in the world and in my personal life so far. But at the same time I think that goodness is such a fine and precious thing, that it makes life worthwhile, even if there is more ugliness, and even if the end is ugly. Even if the goodness is just a little weed breaking through the concrete of a gray psychopathic world, I will applaud it, and support it by feeling a little good about it....

 

[Minas Tirith]

The thing is, we have quite a lot of time, we just squander it away. 70 years is not peanuts, and you can accomplish quite a bit in this time-span. But oh, so many empty hours of watching TV, worrying about a lover, doing stuff for people who do not even care ...

My two cents. And if given more time certainly not in an STS vampire universe ...

M.T.

 

[Miss.K]

The thing is, we have quite a lot of time, we just squander it away. 70 years is not peanuts, and you can accomplish quite a bit in this time-span. But oh, so many empty hours of watching TV, worrying about a lover, doing stuff for people who do not even care ...

My two cents. And if given more time certainly not in an STS vampire universe ...

M.T.

Sure!

Though in this STS human life. The problem is that one might not realize this until one has spend the first 40 years, and by then the body is already starting to fall apart due to having being poisoned for 40 years, and there is not much more energy than to be active 8 hours a day, which the day job to survive will steal.

At some point I realized that the only way I would be able to do more of what I really wanted to do was by not sleeping, and practiced that a lot, and though I got more done, this is NOT recommended, and will kill one fast, but first brain damage one.

When I watch films and series, it is mostly due to not having energy to do anything that requires psychical energy or great mental concentration, not because I couldn't think of something better to do if I only wasn't so beat. (other reason is I like the art of storytelling)

So if I was sure that this was the last time here I would perhaps prefer it to end sooner than later, but the thought of having to start over, having forgotten everything, having to put one self at the mercy of new parents, and spend 40 years poisoning myself until I realize that it is poison etc. makes me not so enthusiastic, and then I would prefer having more time to get the stone further up the mountain, before starting over.

 

[crystalicdream]

Thank you, this topic is exactly what i seem to need at the moment, to understand what real love actually is. I always had problems with love relationships, but maybe this is mostly because I had been a very sheltered kid when I was younger. I had some relationships with men who wanted to possess, who told me that they cared when this was not the case. When I understood that, I initially was so disgusted by that, that I wanted to give up on love entirely, close off my heart and build a wall around it, so that no one who wants to harm me can come through. i gave up on men, thinking that maybe having a relationshipwith a woman would be more ideal, since another woman would be more likely to understand you due to having made similar experiences, right? Just when I held this belief in my mind, I had a 17 year old girl flirting with me (someone 7 years older at that time) and proclaim her undying love to me on the first day i met up with her. We had been talking on an online forum for quite some time so far and I thought that maybe we could be good Friends, but then having this happen was kinda shocking to me - because if even young women go so far as to prey on another human being like that, then were is true love to be found? Does it even exist, and if so, why is it that so many humans are not able to really love?


It has been quite shattering to me, since I have always been quite the romantic. I loved the kind of stories as portrayed in Twilight, never realizing how harmful it truly is.
So, Caricature of love will be quite the read next. Thank you for this thread.

I personally like the fantasy of being a vampire, not in order to be a psycho, but to live forever (or a very long time) so that I would have time to do all the things I'd like to do, like learning to play the piano, or to learn mathematics, or whatever I think would be cool to learn, but don't have time to in the short lifespan of a human. (and also never get sick or physically weak)

Though Groundhog Day works as well for the fantasy....just saying that I understand that people would want it if given the chance...and when no other downside is given that the burden having seen so much is heavy, and psychological issues for having screwed up more times due to longer life, then it still seems like a pretty good deal to me, as I already have those , and with living forever I could have time to solve those as well as learning how to play the piano..

This is exactly what my best friend said, that she would love to be a vampire if it enabled her to live forever. I think, that I could not bear to live an eternity. I have a longing to finally Ago home, wherever home is, and I know that to go there, I will at least have to be able to die.

 

[Nienna]

This is exactly what my best friend said, that she would love to be a vampire if it enabled her to live forever. I think, that I could not bear to live an eternity. I have a longing to finally Ago home, wherever home is, and I know that to go there, I will at least have to be able to die.

I am thinking that those who would love to live forever are those who are very happy in this materialistic world. They either have no higher self at this time, or are very out of touch with it. Either way, from what the Cs have said, those who are happy with materiality will stay in 3D because that is where they belong at this time and have many more lessons to learn.

I, too, think that living forever in this world is a horrendous idea and have a "longing" to go "home", which to me means 5D, at least this is how I understand it at this point.

fwiw