Carl Jung's Secret Life: "The "Aryan Christ" - something rotten in Jungian psychology?

Alejo

The Living Force
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Because you have much needed Lessons to learn, genero. Apparently its fun - if adjusted to the 'correct' mindset.
Well, I’ve thought about it myself in those terms from time to time but... if I had one 3D analogous situation that helps me understand is that one of traveling.

Specially when you travel to accomplish a goal, you put yourself through really awful and exhausting conditions and situations with strangers who have certain authority and can make your life truly awful at an airport for instance... to then get on an airplane which has a risk, but it seems nescesary and the only available way to do it under the current state. Does that make sense?
 

goyacobol

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he is a pre-1960s cultural radical who is trying to channel the anger of his audience into the moral and economic jungle of a late capitalism that is falling apart under the weight of its own contradictions.
This seems just like a personal judgement that may have merit but is capitalism the main problem. I think a return to moderation and tolerance that Jordan Peterson seems to be promoting is a missing strength of "traditionalism" that the Dionysian era rejects. Of course nothing seems to change without strife and there is "no free lunch".
 

BlackCartouche

Jedi Master
f you think about "seeing the unseen" from an evolutionary standpoint, that's what it does: enhances survival.
In other words: "knowledge protects".

Another way, that sort of incorporates the "learning is fun" bit is that it is evolutionary: those who "get it" figure out what to do and survive.
I understand "learning" is certainly evolutionary pretty much by definition, but "fun" is more an emotion state of mind. Unless emotion is a form of evolution and "fun" is in and of itself its own evolutionary aspect through emotional-intelligence to bind the more general evolution of mechanicalized "learning"?
 

BlackCartouche

Jedi Master
Well, I’ve thought about it myself in those terms from time to time but... if I had one 3D analogous situation that helps me understand is that one of traveling.

Specially when you travel to accomplish a goal, you put yourself through really awful and exhausting conditions and situations with strangers who have certain authority and can make your life truly awful at an airport for instance... to then get on an airplane which has a risk, but it seems nescesary and the only available way to do it under the current state. Does that make sense?
Yes it makes sense if "no pain, no gain" principles do always apply. But, are all experiences laid out by the Cosmos lessons to be learned and goals achieved? Where does Cosmic Balance fit in with this? For every lofty STO high, must be a depraved STS low with NO LEARNING!
 

Mr. Premise

The Living Force
Totally agree. Another good thing about Peterson, IMO, is that while he doesn't talk about the woo-woo stuff, he's always careful to leave open the possibility. He's not dismissive. So not only is he modelling and teaching a responsible and meaningful way of life to millions who need it, he is modelling an openmindedness that leaves open the possibility of even more mindblowing stuff.

Not everyone needs to know advanced mathematics. I doubt most people need to know about HD realities. But if they learn to live their lives in such a way that they fulfill a greater purpose in life - for themselves, their family, their planet and the cosmos - that's a good thing, and arguably better than knowing about HD stuff while NOT being responsible.

Oh, and I'd just add this after the "don't sweat the big stuff" bit: "Do sweat the small stuff, because you're really that important." Every time someone fails to live up to their potential, baby Jesus cries, and the universe is a little worse off. It's up to all of us - no matter how unimportant and insignificant we may think we are - to do our part. The universe doesn't like freeloaders, and being responsible is your cosmic duty! Just try to do it with a sense of humor.
I think these two posts sum it up well.
Totally agree. Another good thing about Peterson, IMO, is that while he doesn't talk about the woo-woo stuff, he's always careful to leave open the possibility. He's not dismissive. So not only is he modelling and teaching a responsible and meaningful way of life to millions who need it, he is modelling an openmindedness that leaves open the possibility of even more mindblowing stuff.

Not everyone needs to know advanced mathematics. I doubt most people need to know about HD realities. But if they learn to live their lives in such a way that they fulfill a greater purpose in life - for themselves, their family, their planet and the cosmos - that's a good thing, and arguably better than knowing about HD stuff while NOT being responsible.

Oh, and I'd just add this after the "don't sweat the big stuff" bit: "Do sweat the small stuff, because you're really that important." Every time someone fails to live up to their potential, baby Jesus cries, and the universe is a little worse off. It's up to all of us - no matter how unimportant and insignificant we may think we are - to do our part. The universe doesn't like freeloaders, and being responsible is your cosmic duty! Just try to do it with a sense of humor.
These two posts hit the nail on the head for me. As for Jung, I read him a bit some 40 years ago but never felt the need to read more for some reason. Something was off and this thread makes it more clear. And, like others said, I found more useful stuff in his followers.
 

Alejo

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Yes it makes sense if "no pain, no gain" principles do always apply. But, are all experiences laid out by the Cosmos lessons to be learned and goals achieved? Where does Cosmic Balance fit in with this? For every lofty STO high, must be a depraved STS low with NO LEARNING!
I’m not sure, what I can say is that every experience carries with it the potential for learning and I think it’s up to the experiencer to understand them as lessons. I think this may be tied to the concept of receivership capacity, namely, how much can you receive, in terms of knowledge, from any given experience... how deep does your understanding of a given experience go.

And absolutely, I think there’s balance in that concept as well, and we don’t have to go too far to find an example of this, we’ve all been and seen people in situations where no matter how many times the same thing happens, no learning takes place. Or another thing that occurs to me is when you see people grabbing a different principles from the same experience.

One person might learn that lying is wrong when caught in a lie, for instance, while some others might learn how to lie more convincingly next time. Does that make sense?
 

BlackCartouche

Jedi Master
what I can say is that every experience carries with it the potential for learning and I think it’s up to the experiencer to understand them as lessons
Does it? Maybe... But if Cosmic Balance is not dependent on that, it needs to be philosophized and studied.

I think this may be tied to the concept of receivership capacity, namely, how much can you receive, in terms of knowledge, from any given experience... how deep does your understanding of a given experience go.
That maybe so for the Lucky Ones. But does all forms of consciousness of the Cosmos fall into such lap of luxury?

I think there’s balance in that concept as well
If "balance" can be 'thought' - then "balance" it 'is'. We all make up the sums of Consciousness thought made manifest. Once 'thought' - its just a 'matter' of extremity.

we’ve all been and seen people in situations where no matter how many times the same thing happens, no learning takes place.
Yes, we can argue, though, that maybe on a collective consciousness level across the Densities learning DOES somewhere somehow take place... But, what if not? What does that entail and where does that leave us with notions of Universal code of morality - Good vs Evil - or STO and STS?

It all comes down to understanding the relationship between STS and STO what they really mean against the backdrop of Cosmic Balance held in equilibrium. Does STO need STS on some quantum level? If so, how STO is STO really?... And how STS is STS really?...

For STS to be true in quantifying its deepest darkest depraved recesses of Cosmos conceptualized - then there must be absolutely NO LESSONS to learn from to truly qualify in quantifying that which presents most absolutely in meaning as that of being the 'true' evils of STS - as *to learn* from within being of an STS experience would eventually ultimately lead to STO by which would mean STS isnt really living up to its 'Evils' - or, being STS isn't really anti-STO because they are working in tandem for Lessons to be born from.

You see, for every STO graduation leaving behind STS physicality must come at the expense of soul-unit desecration at the hands of STS elsewhere to maintain Cosmic Balance. Therefor the very nature of the Cosmos' great machine is 'fixed' for every a lesson learned in climbing up the STO ladder through the densities - thus keeping that 7D - 1D wheel cyclically turning expressed/reflected et al - must come at the 'sacrifice' of another unit of consciousness hijacked and kicked back down the densities against its will... However, the Cs say we consent to it.

But... Here's the thing: for true STS to suffice in all its evils most terrible - the conscious-unit in question must NOT have chosen to be there! Because to have chosen to experience STS on a predestined Cosmic level to learn lessons from - whether acting the role of Predator Prey or Parasite - suggests extreme STS isn't so terrible after all because free-will was, at some point, abridged through contemplated pre-destined destiny-profiling most consciously and consent most decidedly involved. STS is only so terrible if we DIDN'T consent ie sign up to it, but the Cs say we do consent. In all that I perceive entails 'Cosmic Balance' - this is a contradiction to me.
The only way the Cosmos is 'fair' whilst maintain 'balance' at any one moment (concepts of Time notwithstanding), is to either maintain 4D variability forever fixed at the STS-STO level playing field - or for 7D and 1D to co-exist as a sort of 7D:Minus/Plus (or Zero-D:Plus/Minus?) ... or a better 3D way to understand: 7D-1D acting like the Ace card being both the highest (7D) and lowest (1D) card in the deck simultaneously, interlinked via some paradoxical quantum 'back-door' skipping the Densities in-between. However, because its 'fair' - then is STS ever truly enacting its STS-ness? Another paradox...

So... As I understand it currently: Cosmic Balance suggests 5D and 6D STO learning/contemplation comes, respectively, at the expense/sacrifice/needless-suffering of 2D and 3D STS 'evils' of physicality so voraciously intensified... and given my (albeit struggling) understanding of 'truest' STS 'Evils' in light of leaving it behind and intensifying lower STS densities as one progresses beyond 4D necessitating Cosmic Balance restoration?... Fundamentally, I'm not sure I'm down with that! Does that make sense?
 
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genero81

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So... As I understand it currently: Cosmic Balance suggests 5D and 6D STO learning/contemplation comes, respectively, at the expense/sacrifice/needless-suffering of 2D and 3D STS 'evils' of physicality so voraciously intensified... and given my (albeit struggling) understanding of 'truest' STS 'Evils' in light of leaving it behind and intensifying lower STS densities as one progresses beyond 4D necessitating Cosmic Balance restoration?... Fundamentally, I'm not sure I'm down with that! Does that make sense?
I think you're off topic for this particular thread. If I'm not mistaken there's a thread, STS vs STO somewhere.
 

goyacobol

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hesperides

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I only read long ago one heavy book, as I remember it, written by Jung, aside other diverse Jungian references here and there over times. I don´t remember the title, only that I was furiously interested in understanding how the subconscious mind works, and that I spent a hard time trying to follow some of his concepts, or at least to convert his literature into a didactic and practical understanding.

As I was reading this thread, I´ve been searching for an interview I saw some years ago with Marie-Luise von Franz in an interview filmed in Switzerland in 1979. She was a writer, Jungian psychoanalist, and lecturer who has been a close student of Jung, and who became later his major research assistant, as well as his confident, up to a certain degree at least as I understand it from her recount. M-L v. Franz is being asked many questions, like why he had a liaison, which was his personality, which were his interests and concerns around international events, the reasons of being surrounded by ennemies, personal vs collective shadow during WWII in Germany, and more.

As I still haven´t read Richard Noll's book, maybe this interview has lost any relevance in between. But nevertheless I think it could still have some value as a first hand testimony of Jung´s life and work.

 

Joe

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I think everyone should re-read this. Sounds like it's time we all gave up any ideas of 'doing' or 'achieving' anything from a 'spiritual' perspective and just 'go with the flow'. The reason I say is because the 2nd last comment by the Cs below is, IMO, pretty close to the truth of the situation.

Q: Is it important for the information about the potential making new of everything and the awareness of the state of the planet as it is now, or the state of the universe, be shared and spread so that as many people as possible will be aware at the point of the arrival of the wave so that it makes it more likely that beneficial changes will occur, that the universe will change in a positive way? Or is that simply not even important. It will change the way it is going to change no matter what anybody does?

A: Closer to 2nd criterion.

Q: In other words, we are doing what we are doing, and it doesn't really matter what we are doing. The Wave will happen, everything will change, become new, and that's that?

A: What matters most is what others are doing, have done and will do.

Q: Who are these others that it matters most what they have done, are doing and will do?

A: Program rewriters, i.e. you and us in the future.

Q: So, what we have done, what we are doing, what we will do - WE - is important? I think that I missed something. I thought you said that what we were doing simply didn't matter.

A: You are/will be others.

Q: Okay, how is what we are doing now helping or hindering this process?

A: No help/hinder, just is.

Q: So, this has all been done before? It's a foregone conclusion how it is going to turn out? It's a done deal?

A: No Laura, stop your linearishness!

Q: I don't understand. Is what we are doing making a difference?

A: What is "time?"

Q: Time is an illusion. (A) Is doing also an illusion?

A: If you are thinking in linear "time" terms.

Q: In other words, the best way for an STO future to manifest is for us not to anticipate that ANYTHING we do will matter. Because, if we are anticipating that what we do will make a difference, it won't. It is wanting. (A) I can't stop thinking that my working is going to be useful! (L) I can't stop what I am doing either because it is what I DO. It is being ME. We have to stop anticipating. We do what is in us to do without expecting it to matter.

A: And you do it because you are directing you to do it from another plane of existence where you know the score. Where you are on your present awareness plane, you are largely, though not completely, scoreless and clueless.

Q: So, it is from another level of reality that we create THIS reality?

A: Close.

Q: How much input do we have from this level of reality regarding the creation of a future reality, and I use the term "future" loosely, but meaning "future" as we perceive it from this reality? How much input?

A: About as much awareness as a small child does when contemplating how to fly the plane they are riding on.

Q: Well, you have talked about the Wave before, and I complained that we did not have time to do certain things that you had suggested that we do. You said that, yes we would, and that these things were suggested to "prepare" us for this event. Just trying to deal with it from a linear point of view, we still have to build this pool with the columns, get a Nobel prize, supposedly, work with people on the crop circles, and all that. Are we still looking at doing these things in this linear time progression that we exist in; that we are aware of as small children on a very large plane?

A: If you let it flow, it will flow.
 

fabric

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Sounds like it's time we all gave up any ideas of 'doing' or 'achieving' anything from a 'spiritual' perspective and just 'go with the flow'. The reason I say is because the 2nd last comment by the Cs below is, IMO, pretty close to the truth of the situation.
I get the same impression as well. It makes me think of all those SJW’s trying to go and ‘change the world’ when they can’t even change their underwear. When the reality is that the situation is so massive and complex that it really is like a child wondering how to fly a plane!

I guess all one can really do is work with what they have and know so far and learn as much as they can. Then put it into practice. Live your life as best as you can according to the principles you believe in. The more I think about what the C’s said wrt to ‘karmic lessons and simple understandings’ makes me realize that it comes down to doing what is in your being to do. But we don’t always know what that is. Perhaps it’s that process of discovery – the gradual alignment of present ourselves to our future selves (and our past selves for that matter) where it counts. Maybe it is to allow the creative principle to be an expression of how you live your life, without expectation or demand. To do just because and not worry too much about what’s going to happen next.

Like the saying goes, it’s not the destination that matters, but the journey.
 

JEEP

The Living Force
A: Program rewriters, i.e. you and us in the future.
Perhaps what "we" collectively are doing, have done, will do is actually the manisfestation of 'rewriting the program'?

It was hardly happenstance that Laura took the path she did and that those of us seeking truth & knowledge became aware of her and her experiment? But at this stage of the game, we probably do need to focus on "going with the flow". If we try to force it - or fret ourselves into a tizzy - it will just be an unproductive waste of energy. Of course, being painfully aware of all that's going on is mightly hard not to fret about. But then, we know 'learning our lessons' was never meant to be easy.
 

Joe

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If we try to force it - or fret ourselves into a tizzy - it will just be an unproductive waste of energy. Of course, being painfully aware of all that's going on is mightly hard not to fret about. But then, we know 'learning our lessons' was never meant to be easy.
Yep, and the "doom and gloom" and "catastrophic" thinking about things in general really doesn't seem to help. It just stresses us out and can leave us open to making wrong decisions. Of course, in the end, even if we make wrong decisions, it's all good, but I think we could all do with easing up on ourselves a little and trusting that we will do the best we can, especially with the feedback available from others here. If we do that, with the awareness that what we do really isn't going to be that 'earth shattering' or important in the grand scheme of things, then we can get on with learning the "simple and karmic" lessons as they come and not sweat the big stuff.

Basically, chill out people! We've got enough on our plates with the job of simply living and dealing with the normal everyday vicissitudes of life.
 
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