Cassiopaea Forum Reading Workshops - Public

(CRW Am-EU) What temporary schedule is best for you?

  • Sunday 17:00-19:00 UTC (18:00-20:00 French time)

    Votes: 28 65.1%
  • Saturdays 17:00-19:00 UTC (18:00-20:00 French time)

    Votes: 15 34.9%

  • Total voters
    43
Hello, can I still join Readings and EE Workshops?
If I understood right EE is every Saturday at 6 PM UTC (20h CET).?

thank you

Hi @solarmind, I don’t see why not, but I’ll let someone from that group chime in to confirm (I’m in the the Aus-As group, our session starts at 10:00 AM UTC). The EU-AM session is on at 6:00 PM UTC.

The EE sessions are as follows:
There are two Éiriú Eolas meetings that were scheduled in order to accommodate people from different time zones:
  • Mondays at 6:00 p.m. (UTC)
  • Fridays at 1:00 a.m. (UTC)
 
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I want to thank the group, for the opportunity to participate. At this time an opportunity has arisen, this direction has taken precedence. I will watch the thread. It was wonderful to look upon the faces of members, and realize that behind the avatars and names, lie real thinking, caring people.
 
Hi everyone, I decided to pick up Erich Fromm's The Art of Loving last night and came across this quote that seemed to fit into yesterdays's discussion about STS dynamics, namely about greed, jealousy, possessiveness and judgement as opposed to STO principles of objectivity and seeing things as they are rather than what we want them to be. Anyways, thought I'd share it.

Beyond the element of giving the active character of love becomes evident in the fact that it always implies certain basic elements, common to all forms of love. These are care, responsibility, respect and knowledge.

That love implies care is most evident in a mother's love for her child. No assurance of her love would strike us as sincere if we saw her lacking in care for the infant, if she neglected to feed it, to bathe it, to give it physical comfort; and we are impressed by her love if we see her caring for the child. It is not different even with the love for animals or flowers. If a woman told us that she loved flowers, and we saw that she forgot to water them, we would not believe in her 'love' for flowers. Love is the active concern for the life and the growth of that which we love. Where this active concern is lacking, there is no love. This element of love has been beautifully described in the book of Jonah. God has told Jonah to go to Nineveh to warn its inhabitants that they will be punished unless they mend their evil ways. Jonah runs away from his mission because he is afraid that the people of Nineveh will repent and that God will forgive them. He is a man with a strong sense of order and law, but without love. However, in his attempt to escape, he finds himself in the belly of a whale, symbolising the state of isolation and imprisonment which his lack of love and solidarity has brought upon him. God saves him, and Jonah goes to Nineveh. He preaches to the inhabitants as God has told him, and the very thing he was afraid of happens. The men of Nineveh repent their sins, mend their ways and God forgives them and decides not to destroy the city. Jonah is intensely angry and disappointed; he wanted 'justice' to be done, not mercy. At last he finds some comfort in the shade of a tree which God made to grow for him to protect him from the sun. But when God makes the tree wilt, Jonah is depressed and angrily complains to God. God answers: "Thou hast had pity on the gourd for which thou hast not laboured neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night. And should I not spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand people that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?" God's answer to Jonah is to be understood symbolically. God explains to Jonah that the essence of love is to 'labour' for something and 'to make something grow', that love and labour are inseparable. One loves for that which one labours, and one labours for that which one loves.

Care and concern imply another aspect of love; that of responsibility. Today, responsibility is often meant to denote duty, something imposed upon one from the outside. But responsibility, in its true sense, is an entirely voluntary act; it is my response to the needs, expressed or unexpressed, of another human being. To be 'responsible' means to be able and ready to 'respond'. Jonah did not feel responsible to the inhabitants of Nineveh. He, like Cain, could ask: 'Am I my brother's keeper?' The loving person responds. The life of his brother is not his brother's business alone, but his own. He feels responsible for his fellow men, as he feels responsible for himself. This responsibility, in the case of the mother and her infant, refers mainly to the care for physical needs. In the love between adults it refers mainly to the psychic needs of the other person.

Responsibility could easily deteriorate into domination and possessiveness, were it not for the third component of love, respect. Respect is not fear and awe; it denotes, in accordance with the root of the word (respicere, to look at), the ability to see a person as he is, to be aware of his unique individuality. Respect means the concern that the other person should grow and unfold as he is. Respect, thus, implies the absence of exploitation. I want the loved person to grown and unfold for his own sake, and in his own ways, and not for the purpose of serving me. If I love the other person, I feel one with him or her, but with him as he is, not as I need him to be as an object for my use. It is clear that respect is possible only if I have achieved independence; if I can stand and walk without needing crutches, without having to dominate and exploit anyone else. Respect exists only on the basis of freedom: 'L'amour est l'enfant de la liberte' as an old French song says; love is the child of freedom, never that of domination.

To respect a person is not possible without knowing him; care and responsibility would be blind if they were not guided by knowledge. Knowledge would be empty if it were not motivated by concern. There are many layers of knowledge: the knowledge which is an aspect of love is one which does not stay at the periphery, but penetrates to the core. It is possible only when I can transcend the concern for myself and see the other person in his own terms. I may know, for instance, that a person is angry, even if he does not show it overtly; but I may know him more deeply than that; then I know that he is anxious, and worried; that he feels lonely, that he feels guilty. Then I know his anger is only the manifestation of something deeper, and I see him anxious and embarrassed, that is, as the suffering person, rather than as the angry one.

Knowledge has one more and a more fundamental relation to the problem of love. The basic need to fuse with another person so as to transcend the prison of one's separateness is closely related to another specifically human desire, that to know the 'secret of man'. While life in its merely biological aspects is a miracle and a secret, man in his human aspects is an unfathomable secret to himself - and to his fellow man. We know ourselves, and yet even with all the efforts we may make, we do not know ourselves. We know our fellow man, and yet we do not know him, because we are not a thing, and our fellow man is not a thing. The further we reach into the depth of our being, or someone else's being, the more the goal of knowledge eludes us. Yet we cannot help desiring to penetrate into the secret of man's soul, into the innermost nucleus which is 'he'.

There is one way, a desperate one, to know the secret: it is that of complete power over another person: the power which makes him do what we want, feel what we want, think what we want; which transforms him into a thing, our thing, our possession. The ultimate degree of this attempt to know lies in the extremes of sadism, the desire and ability to make a human being suffer; to torture him, to force him to betray his secret in suffering. In this craving for penetrating man's secret, his and hence our own, lies an essential motivation for the depth and intensity of cruelty and destructiveness. In a very succinct way this idea has been expressed by Isaac Babel. He quotes a fellow officer in the Russian civil war, who has just stamped his former master to death, as saying: "With shooting I'll put it this way - with shooting you only get rid of a chap... with shooting you'll never get at the soul, to where it is in a fellow and how it shows itself. But I don't spare myself, and I've more than once trampled an enemy for more than an hour. You see, I want to get to know what life really is, what life's like down our way.

In children we often see this path to knowledge quite overtly. The child takes something apart, breaks it up in order to know it; or it takes an animal apart; cruelly tears off the wings of a butterfly in order to know it, to force its secret. The cruelty itself is motivated by something deeper; the wish to know the secret of things and of life.

The other path to knowing 'the secret' is love. Love is active penetration of another person, in which my desire to know is stilled by union. In the act of fusion I know you, I know myself, I know everybody - and I 'know' nothing. I know in the only way knowledge of that which is alive is possible for man - by experience of union - not by any knowledge our thought can give. Sadism is motivated by the wish to know the secret, yet I remain as ignorant as I was before. I have torn the other being apart limb from limb, yet all I have done is to destroy him. Love is the only way of knowledge, which in the act of union answers my quest. In the act of loving, of giving myself, in the act of penetrating the other person, I find myself, I discover myself, I discover us both, I discover man.
 
Here's the video of the last meeting (The Wave chapters 7 & 8)

The audio.

And the folder.

For the next meeting we'll finish discussing chapter 8, and we agreed to read 9 & 10 this week.

Great meeting everyone!

Thanks for that fragment, Turgon. :cool2:

The STS and STO dynamics discussion also included a couple of comments about Anakin and the Dark Side ;-D. The guys from MindMatters shared interesting ideas here:


I´ve had exactly the same issue, same message from zoom. I could only join the first session at the end. The second time, I could join half an hour later, until zoom crashed. And yesterday, I finally was able to join within 5 minutes. I never have issues with other zoom gatherings either. The only new thing I did yesterday was turning off my computer before the meeting would start. Maybe it has nothing to do, but a newbie like me might easily falls into wishful thinking traps when facing today´s technology.

It's weird, but we'll keep an eye out for anyone left in the waiting room during the meetings.

Hello, can I still join Readings and EE Workshops?
If I understood right EE is every Saturday at 6 PM UTC (20h CET).?

thank you

Of course, @solarmind. Whenever you see the link in any of the threads, just click on it to join ;) And if you have any issue to connect, just let us know. Looking forward to seeing you there!
 
The STS and STO dynamics discussion also included a couple of comments about Anakin and the Dark Side ;-D. The guys from MindMatters shared interesting ideas here:

@logos5x5,

Wow! What a brilliant bunch of guys we have here (including you). This is so exciting I think! Even my grandson would get it!

As the Cs say:

Q: (L) The battle was in us?

A: Through you.
 
We had the 4th Au-Asia-Am Reading Workshop yesterday (9th May 2020), with @Aya, @Arwenn, @sid, @Rashi, @Bobo08, @Keit, @Nathancat7 and @Tuatha de Danaan, discussing Chapters 7 & 8 of the Wave Volume 1/2. Thank you all for attending! A lot of serious discussion about life and relationships in this session.

Here is the link to the video of the session, and audio. Here is the link to the folder to access future sessions as well.

The following are notes from the discussion. Much of the session was transcribed with the member's handles as there were some slightly differing individual points of view on the topics, as well as many personal anecdotes.

Chapter 7 - Laura Falls into the Pit and Ark comes to the Rescue, or Balloons, Anti-balloons and Fireworks
  • Gravity doesn't get increased or decreased but is either collected or dispersed, but thoughts produce gravity? Doesn't this mean adding to the system?
  • Energy can neither be created or destroyed, Second Law of Thermodynamics [this is actually the First Law of Thermodynamics, see below for a somewhat understandable definition of the Second Law - basically that as "usable energy" becomes "unusable energy", entropy is always increasing in the universe, OSIT].
    Second Law of Thermodynamics
    Second Law of Thermodynamics - The Laws of Heat Power
    The Second Law of Thermodynamics is one of three Laws of Thermodynamics. The term "thermodynamics" comes from two root words: "thermo," meaning heat, and "dynamic," meaning power. Thus, the Laws of Thermodynamics are the Laws of "Heat Power." As far as we can tell, these Laws are absolute. All things in the observable universe are affected by and obey the Laws of Thermodynamics.

    The First Law of Thermodynamics, commonly known as the Law of Conservation of Matter, states that matter/energy cannot be created nor can it be destroyed. The quantity of matter/energy remains the same. It can change from solid to liquid to gas to plasma and back again, but the total amount of matter/energy in the universe remains constant.

    Second Law of Thermodynamics - Increased Entropy
    The Second Law of Thermodynamics is commonly known as the Law of Increased Entropy. While quantity remains the same (First Law), the quality of matter/energy deteriorates gradually over time. How so? Usable energy is inevitably used for productivity, growth and repair. In the process, usable energy is converted into unusable energy. Thus, usable energy is irretrievably lost in the form of unusable energy.

    "Entropy" is defined as a measure of unusable energy within a closed or isolated system (the universe for example). As usable energy decreases and unusable energy increases, "entropy" increases. Entropy is also a gauge of randomness or chaos within a closed system. As usable energy is irretrievably lost, disorganization, randomness and chaos increase.

    Second Law of Thermodynamics - In the Beginning...
    The implications of the Second Law of Thermodynamics are considerable. The universe is constantly losing usable energy and never gaining. We logically conclude the universe is not eternal. The universe had a finite beginning -- the moment at which it was at "zero entropy" (its most ordered possible state). Like a wind-up clock, the universe is winding down, as if at one point it was fully wound up and has been winding down ever since. The question is who wound up the clock?

    The theological implications are obvious. NASA Astronomer Robert Jastrow commented on these implications when he said, "Theologians generally are delighted with the proof that the universe had a beginning, but astronomers are curiously upset. It turns out that the scientist behaves the way the rest of us do when our beliefs are in conflict with the evidence." (Robert Jastrow, God and the Astronomers, 1978, p. 16.)

    Jastrow went on to say, "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries." (God and the Astronomers, p. 116.) It seems the Cosmic Egg that was the birth of our universe logically requires a Cosmic Chicken...

  • Judgment versus Discernment. Judgment is determining other's needs. Discernment is developing perspicacity and learning to see people for who they are. Narcissism and judgment, fixed perception of another, when the future is fluid and changeable. People can change if willing. May require hard lessons. OPs and psychopaths can be identified by long and careful observation. Discernment - logical and rational, Judgment - clouded by emotions.
  • Kant - we can only perceive things through our 3D sense apparatus, affected by our biases - perception of phenomenal vs. noumenal (seeing the unseen)
    Seeing the unseen

    In FotCM usage, this means making an objective interpretation of the signs of reality. This does
    not generally refer to unusual psychic or sensory experiences, visions or the like.

    Wishful thinking is one of the principal obstacles to seeing the unseen. Wishful thinking interposes
    itself between the thinker and reality and prevents one from drawing the needed conclusions even
    when the data exists and is at least at some level known. This is in effect preferring comfort over
    truth, and may lead to fatally underestimating real dangers.

    Seeing the unseen involves approaching the phenomenon from multiple angles, considering motives
    and any other principles of detective work. The emphasis is on seeing things which can be reliably
    correlated with observable reality, to the extent possible in each case.

    The New Age use of the phrase, on the other hand, usually refers to unusual perceptions which
    generally cannot be evaluated against the benchmark of commonly observable reality. This is an
    important difference of approach.
  • Holocaust being a test run, how much people are willing to abdicate free will to controllers. COVID-19 is worse when compared to 3rd Reich in terms of mind control.
  • Karmic and simple understandings, character disordered people, manipulative hooks that people use, pity, feeling sorry for someone.
    • Laura's biggest simple understanding is that she thought according to programming, seeing reality as it is is a challenge.
    • Tuatha's understanding - her family is unaware, tried to change them, learning what Laura learnt earlier on only now, difficult to accept differences in close relationships, where buttons are pushed
  • Nathancat7 - interfering with family member's lessons, feeling guilty
  • Tuatha - How we deal with other people, COVID has hit us in the face, a big learning curve, we're in contact only with family members, knocks us out of balance
  • Arwenn - People close to you being vectors, Frequency Resonance Modulation can be altered from the outside if one is not cautious or aware enough. There's a program for everyone.
  • Rashi - Also comes from animals, 2D; Arwenn - 2D creatures will get increasing number of attachments; Sid - Pepperfritz had died saving her dog, C's said she was not paying attention. Keit - always expect attack, pay attention.
  • Reiki handbook, 03 Dec 94 session, repeated application of Reiki symbols to repattern wounding and karmic issues, paying it forward, if you can't reconcile with someone, help others. Reiki an influx of information, to motivate you to change. Information meaning a change on another realm, Lethbridge and pentagrams. Intent of giving Reiki, motion of symbols, drawing the spirals. Symbol is the engine - intent is the fuel. Ritual and belief, homeopathy can work with belief?
  • "Don't get hung up on literal meanings of symbols. Intention is more important than meaning of symbol."
  • Wishing harm on others can be countered, personal protection, energy dynamic works when allowed, we have a choice, Ark: magick rituals do have influence, but it needs some kind of faith. Rashi's mother - West Bengal (Calcutta)- the ritual works only when belief is present, the user can be affected if the target does not believe in it.
  • Superstitions - black cats, etc. pushing them away and not believing, yet objectively things do happen regardless of our wishes.
  • Darkness over Tibet - ran away because he knew about the power of curse, a thread on the forum on curses. Psychic thread to the target and how curses can bounce back.
  • Sid: Pizzagate scandal - STS forces need to engage in rituals to continually disperse energies to targeted audience.
nazar-amulet-64999_960_720.jpg

Nazar Evil Eye warding amulet
Smudging-with-white-sage.jpg

Smudge stick
  • Nazar, an amulet to protect against Evil eye, coal behind the ears, Sid's ritual of black spot behind cats ears, cultural rituals and karma, surgeons wearing specific socks during surgery, smudging with sage as recommended by Laura.
  • Free will - increased by assimilation of knowledge and awareness, makes you aware of what actions are acts of free will, when you know the difference between lies and deception, have more control over life. C's cannot help with Karmic level 1 process, major predestined lesson/mission.
  • Afterlife thread - people chose to have accidents, trauma before coming into the world, depends on who makes the choice, your soul.
  • Ego level, being an automaton until cleansing the scars, preverbal trauma and NO, programs running the show, how much free will does someone who's not awake has, lack of awareness and free will can cause an acquiring of more karmic burden, knowledge allows us to better understand implications of choices, thus reducing karmic burden, debit credit system, to understand the level of debt, not accepting responsibility, ignorance is bliss, and giving away our power, taking more responsibility increases our free will, getting stuck in a karmic loop, being wronged by someone could involve wronging someone in the next incarnation.
  • Julius Caesar balanced karma, suffering could be balancing of Atlantean karma, in Rome people were getting wronged and no justice to appease, generational karma, nation vs. nation, JC made war and killed people, invited people to Rome, gave citizenship & land, African countries
  • Suffering in Africa & Atlantean karma, Arafat - a leader of a terrorist organization esp. as seen by Israel, did commit terror attacks, some fabricated by Israel, but C's have said that Arafat was also working towards peace, it needs to be taken in it's specific situation, the intent behind it.
  • In Soviet days, Russians may have had ill feelings towards government, Putin did a lot for the people, applying a balancing of karma, bringing the good times, Corona crisis complicates matters, BRICS is a balancing force against American empire, taking retribution on someone, endless loops of violence
  • Karma and going to contemplation souls, karma forms for the reason of learning lessons, can be ameliorated by learning to forgive each other, stopping negative cycle, even someone who gets killed or raped can learn to forgive their tormentors.
  • Karma and simple understandings, lessons on levels of individual, family, race, nation, humanity.
  • Sid: to focus less on karma and more on awareness level, networking. If incarnation is true, life situation, country, race would have been chosen for best chance of balancing karma, this perspective can reduce worry and rumination about karma, just do your best and things will take care of themselves.
  • Aim to try and be the best person you can be, that's all you can ask of yourself at any moment
  • Simplypsychology.org - Free will vs. determinism
    • Determinism - all behavior has a cause, FW is an illusion.
      • External determinism, parents, culture.
      • Internal determinism, sociobiology and genetic inheritance. Can contribute towards developing personality traits.
      • Biological machines, consciousness as interpreted as a level of arousal of nervous system.
    • Free will - we have choice in behaviors and actions, humanistic approach places emphasis on personal agency.
    • Psychologists Maslow and Rogers said FW was necessary to become fully functioning human beings.
    • Idea is that we are somewhere in between, external factors, soul marries genetic potential, external karmic influences, determines degree to which we are awake, if we have desire to pull threads, sift through and search for truth to increase awareness, then can exert more personal agency.
  • COVID as an example of giving away personal agency by believing in what they tell us, most people don't realize. Giving away freedom, not everyone has FW, we are subjected to other's FW until we learn to grow our own, after accumulating enough knowledge and understanding, creates greater responsibility. Some of us have a better perception of people than others, Russian polls show that 87% of people accept restrictions, however people outside ignore rules, perception management [by government] happening.
  • Plandemic documentary
  • Many people don't understand reality in the way we do, External Consideration to be applied in daily life, important to make our lives less difficult, you can judge people by their reactions and modify your approach.
    External vs. internal considering


    In Fourth Way parlance, external considering is the practice of taking others into account when acting, seeing their situation as it is and accordingly making life easy both for oneself and for others. Internal considering is the opposite – acting out of a subjective inner state and view of the situation to which one is attached, with any of a number of consequences. External considering involves making a realistic evaluation of another’s situation and acting in ways which take this into account in a positive sense. It is however not the same thing as being socially polite or considerate, although it may be expressed in this manner. The key concept is to be aware of and to adapt oneself to the level of being and knowledge of others. Thus, one of the things external considering involves is to avoid talking about things which would simply offend others’ beliefs or simply not be understood. (See strategic enclosure for more on this.) More generally, external considering relates to an idea of good will towards the environment, in the sense of letting the environment be as it wishes and responding to its requests in a manner that honors its right to be as it will. External considering is rooted in objective awareness of the environment. Its opposite, internal considering, is rooted in attachment to a subjective inner state, to one’s own comfort of preconceptions or desires.

    External and internal considering are not always outwardly distinguishable, although inwardly they are fundamentally different. One may for example be socially pleasing purely in order to uphold or reinforce one’s own idea of oneself as a ’good person.’ Or, be nice out of fear of being judged by others. This is internal considering and preoccupation with how others/the self perceive the self. In some cases, external considering may involve withholding information that is seen as inappropriate, dangerous or simply unlikely to be well received. An internally considering person may also do this, but then again the motive is different. We cannot codify with external criteria which action constitutes which kind of considering. The concepts are related to service to others vs service to self and to objectivity vs subjectivity. Usually the term considering is applied in the context of personal interactions. Only through having external considering can one serve others. This requires responsiveness and a sense of objectivity and awareness of what is right action for the given situation. Serving in the sense of merely carrying out commands is not external considering.

    Internal considering can be likened to man’s inner predator. It feeds itself by engaging in subjective fantasies where it thinks it is other than it is. It will also seek to gain external confirmation for its distorted self-image by manipulating others to confirm it in its views. Man may go to much trouble to make an impression, simply in order to have his own illusory, internally considered self-image reflected back to himself from others. All success in such manipulation feeds the predator and confirms it in its internal considering and accordingly removes the center of gravity of man’s inner life away from objectivity. Internal considering is in very concrete terms man’s natural enemy who seeks to prevent man from being himself. The predator will at all times prefer an illusion of virtue to the naked truth about itself.

    Still, it is not useful to morally judge or condemn the predator, just like it is useless to condemn a cat for eating mice. Still, one must disengage from identifying with this predator. Claiming to Work while engaging in internal considering is a contradiction in terms. The forms of internal considering can however be extremely subtle and one cannot always detect them, thus constant vigilance is required. The predator of internal considering may well claim to engage in merciless self-observation, to aspire to consciousness and being and any other virtues and even trick itself to believe it is progressing towards these goals while all the while only feeding its vanity and desire for recognition. Exterior man needs the support of a group in order to help him detect the many tricky ways in which internal considering inserts itself in his perception and actions.
  • Rashi: Studying evil and making judgment - Keit: but we don't need to judge, instead to understand, modifying our own behavior with them, and understanding that they can only accept us at a certain level, it's easier when we know this, we don't need to go through hard lessons, expecting them to be someone they are not.
  • Sid: Cognitive dissonance with people.
  • Nathancat7: Met a military type, wanted to be on "the winning side", girlfriend however wasn't concerned about the masks
  • Sid: Nothing brings out character like a good crisis.

Chapter 8: Everywhere you look there is the Face of God
  • Sid: Laura was dabbling in various things until this chapter, after Ark came into the picture, C's answers had become much more elaborate, going beyond one-word answers.
  • Arwenn: Laura says we are limited in our understanding due to DNA manipulation, what we see is only our interpretation of reality.
  • Keit: Mosaic Consciousness
  • Arwenn: Cognitive and emotional biases can play such a role in skewing what we perceive, e.g. video of basketball game and the monkey/gorilla passes through and most don't see it, keeping count of players and monkey simultaneously is difficult. It's hard for people to let go of emotional investment, Drew Westin, psychologist, candidates were emotionally invested in their particular party. FMRIs were done and neural punishment centers of brain lit up, rationalizations lit up the pleasure part of the brain. They will not budge when presented with facts.
  • Sid: House of Lords, when faced with problems, they remain ignorant and navel-gazing
  • Nathancat7: Brother had skull fracture, wants to talk to brother, but he has a strong investment in something not beneficial to him, Sid suggested that it may be narcissistic personality, Nathan says he is empathetic and sweet but damaged, raised very liberally
  • Sid: This behaviour and attitude if chronic can lead to personality splitting, multiple I's, pseudo-intellectual types, postmodern thinking, fearful of being found out, little child inside, when presented with facts there is a feeling of being cornered, hitting the core level of the inner child, will ignore facts because it doesn't fit worldview, or that they didn't think of that first!
  • Growing up in strict religious background, brain can't compute other worldviews, akin to discarding a whole identity and having to think for oneself, fear involved.
  • Political Ponerology, upward and downward adjustment, someone with good mental faculties may find themselves downward adjusted in certain social circles, people less endowed tend to be upward adjusted into middle management, Sid has seen this in professional life.
  • Having thoughts and beliefs that we are emotionally invested in, beliefs vs. faith, cannot deal with facts, faith as an open process of being able to adjust our view of life with new facts, belief is fixed and unchanging "this is how I've always thought, it's always been done, and I'm sticking with it", belief is having a one-track mind.
    Belief vs. faith
    In FOTCM discourse, the term belief means a concept which is accepted as a given truth, without
    necessarily being critically evaluated. ’Belief’ often connotates emotional attachment of the believer
    to the belief. At an extreme, such attachment turns the belief into a ’sacred cow’, defended through
    emotional thinking. By contrast, the term faith may be used to connote the opposite – an open-
    minded attitude and trust in the process of inquiry.
    Understood in this way, ’belief’ means having firmly decided that the world is a certain way and
    holding fast to this view even in the face of evidence to the contrary. In essence, one is attempting
    to force one’s model on the world. Since there is then no regard for truth, this involves a form of
    subjectivity and internal considering regardless of whether what is believed happens to be correct
    or not.
    ’Faith’, being an attitude of openness towards the truth and whatever the investigative process
    reveals, involves the opposite: an open and receptive attitude to the Universe. There is trust and
    the absence of any inflexible judgement on how things ’must be’. Faith, then, is conducive to the
    striving towards objectivity.
    Belief is in a sense controlling and scared of being wrong, while faith is adventurous and fl exible.
    The distinction between the two is also related to the question of anticipation and non-anticipation.
    Even though the dictionary definitions of faith and belief are similar, the Cassiopaean material
    tends to make the above distinction between ’belief’ and ’faith’.
  • Varieties of Religious Experience by William James, quote: "conceive yourself, if possible, suddenly stripped of all the emotion which your world now inspires you, and try to imagine that it exists purely by itself, without your favorable, hopeful, or apprehensive comment"
    • Describing a world where the person has realized the horror of the situation, the world is unemotional
  • Tolstoy writes that he was a perfectly functional human being, could function perfectly well working 8 hours a day, but could not give reasonable meaning to any actions in his life, reached a point of bankruptcy, "my state of mind was as if some wicked and stupid just was played upon me", "people can only live when someone is intoxicated about something in their life", e.g. a rich person intoxicated with wealth and constantly pursuing wealth and power, taking it away is death knell for this person, "I became convinced moreover that all those who were before me who have sought for answers in the sciences found nothing", "and not only this, they have recognized the very thing that was leading me to despair, the meaningless absurdity of life is the only incontestable knowledge accessible to man", he realized that the only thing we know is that we don't know anything.
    • Laura gives e.g. of observing school students, there was always a dominant personality in a group, always able to pick out this personality, how this energy is feeding into this one person and others had droopy shoulders, she saw this wherever she went, in couples, etc., asked the C's:
      June 9, 1996

      Q: (L) This recent “awakening” or period of seeing things with such clarity, as they really were, and the whole picture of the interactions between people and how truly ugly it can be. I plunged into a terrible depression. I needed to get my balance from seeing so much all at once. Can you explain to me what was going on?

      A: Growth.

      Q: (L) I tried to share this perception with other people, and almost without exception, when I said to people that I was finally seeing things in their true state and it was not a pretty picture, they all said “well, you are obviously seeing this through the eyes of some major spirit possession!” Why would they say this?

      A: First of all, it is not correct to perceive “everything in such darkness and gloom, etc.” That is merely the result of a cocoon of falsehood being removed. Celebrate the balance. Don’t mourn the death of an illusion of an imbalance.

      Q: (L) Where do I go from here? Where do we all go?

      A: Everywhere.

    • Sid: Sees this as the point where Laura realizes the futility of things, C's come to rescue by stating that cocoon is removed, now you can go anywhere
    • Keit: Tolstoy's moral bankruptcy, found faith and realized, faith in God/Universe, he used Christianity. Nihilism states that there is no point and we can do whatever, Laura however used the crisis to do something within her, what she wanted to do. All of us have the choice.
    • Sid: V for Vendetta, Natalie Portman [Evey] is imprisoned by V for a year, comes out complete stripped of emotion, tormentor was V - he makes her stay in this state, she was at the brink of suicide.
      the_scream_by_paulsgruff-d4r7q47.jpg

      The Scream by Van Gogh
    • Arwenn: References Van Gogh painting of The Scream, seeing reality for what it is in a moment frozen in time
  • Feeding hierarchy and top people feeding on the bottom, you get used as a pawn in their game, Castaneda's techniques in use but when dealing with four tyrants at a time, there are tyrants that are kind and generous too,
  • Keit: knew a person who was very polite but wouldn't hesitate to stab you in the back
  • Sid: they know how to extract information from you when you least expect it and use it against you
  • Aya: Good strategy is to find a comrade, some to network with for protection.
  • Sid: Do what Don Juan used to do, be there, be present but act, take on a role, appease them but don't reveal your true self, you're almost lying, having a pseudo-personality
  • Rashi: Acting dumb is the best thing, people don't take you seriously and reveal their weaknesses to you
  • Arwenn: The more efficient you are and get results, the more you are a threat to them, the more they use you to get what they want. Dealt with a character disordered person, suspected of theft, Arwenn used gray rock technique to ward her off. Biggest issue though is mid-management, who are meant to support you, but have their eye on the prize and will do anything to brown-nose their way to the top.
  • Rashi: Kissing up and kicking down
  • Arwenn: Feeding dynamic, daughter was in year 6, a girl at her school observed to have narcissistic issues. Crying the victim, manipulation.
  • Rashi: A 13 year old boy got another boy of the same age to commit suicide at Sid's school
  • Keit: A girl convinced her boyfriend to commit suicide through messaging
  • Sid: in 96-97, love triangle scenario, someone got convinced to take rat poison
  • Arwenn: Be careful of feeding relationships in family dynamics
  • Sid: Strengthening of the willpower to be able to let go of other's suffering, by not offering help, it's not being bad but just protecting yourself.
  • Keit: C's had said about doing good things for others when it's not within the cycle or lesson plan, it is STS to be giving good to someone who doesn't deserve it or doesn't ask for it.
  • Sid: Same dynamic with his mother, being made to feel inept since childhood, read Narcissistic family book to realize that he was only a child and wasn't required to rescue her, recurring dynamic, decided to cut the cords.
  • Rashi: Sid was influenced by the image of the helpless female, they dynamic repeated with other females, the White Knight syndrome
  • Arwenn: If you're diligent, conscientious, work til you have no energy for yourself, Laura's character, read Amazing Grace, relationships with Frank, Candy, so on. Arwenn sees similarities in the relationship with her husband who was a passive-aggressive. Helped cast the veil before her eyes, painful to let go.
  • Rashi: You come out stronger from this experience, relationships can be revisited but at a different level without feeding, become more experienced with dealing with them.
  • Arwenn: Some relationships may have to be ended completely, but some may be maintained with boundaries.
  • Keit: Had to cut out contact with mother completely, narcissist who couldn't change, worried about not being there when she dies, objectively it was better to stay away, blocked her on Facebook, needed to stabilize herself after dealing with her, finds out about her through a friend.
  • Sid: Didn't hear from his mother for 6 years, was nonchalant and did not keep in touch, became stronger emotionally
  • Keit: Her mother was her own enemy, prayed that she didn't miss the lesson and made the right choice to cut off contact. Just being the best person she can be every day. Cannot play a gray rock with her, very skilled manipulator, may not be able to interact with her again
  • Arwenn: Harder with parents compared to siblings. Had cut contact with both siblings. Mother is codependent, lives 4 hours away from her, visits are at a minimum. Both siblings are narcissists, brother is really bad, heartbreaking. Narcissistics and codependents work together, she gets weaker as she interacts with the siblings. Arwenn still keeps in touch with mother, feels the obligation.
  • Sid: Scottie desired to meet parents again, but C's had advised that it was not necessary. The connections with parents and siblings are solely at the level of physical body, chemical reactions that get stimulated during childhood, not always at a soul level.
  • Rashi: What about picking up karmic debt?
  • Sid: You will if you are not careful, so free will and knowledge can help in avoiding/dealing with it
  • Keit: Picked up a lot of narcissistic crap from mother, generational karmic lessons can be replayed if you don't change yourself and become your own person
  • Arwenn: Not only loving noble traits of god but also the base traits, we have many parts of ourselves but we focus on noble characteristics, but acknowledgement of darkness is equally important.
  • Keit: Jordan Peterson says that we have to be dangerous
  • Sid: Negative parts are the unknown that we stare at, it scares us to know them, but we have to address them
  • Arwenn: We may be in situations where we need to bring up these traits, so important to acknowledge and express them appropriately
  • Sid: Laura talks about keeping anger below the neck, transmuting the heat of anger, don't think of retribution but use the energy of anger to do something that we've been procrastinating about
  • Arwenn: Jordan Peterson's Past Authoring program, emotional tags on things requires processing, you allowed situation to occur, what can you learn from it?
  • Sid: In situations losing control, he found that he suffered the most, and the party who wronged him suffered less, he was triggered because his buttons were pushed, better to live through the moment, stop reacting and observe what happens, almost like a curse that came in and bounced back
  • Arwenn: Bringers of the Dawn - Multidimensional merge.
    "The test with negative energies of seemingly incredible darkness is to understand they are coming to merge with you because they are you. Have you ever thought there are portions of yourself that are in the dark that don't know how to find the light except through you. The battle of light and dark and good and evil is only between portions of yourself. The things that you meet that you fear are you. So called evil serves a great purpose. You just judge it because it seems bad. As members of the family of light, when you exist in other places, you move into various aspects of yourself and play different parts to perfection. Now, as you come awake and realize what you can become you're leading all yourselves towards the realization that you are your enemy."
    • Keit: The battle is through us, we are our own worst enemy, it depends on choosing between higher and lower parts of ourselves, but to do that we need to be aware of all our parts.
    • Sid: Our own negative halves, what's inside us, every time we react there is a program inside us that gets triggered. Some quotes:
      "Whenever you get an experience, learn to participate in it, be a full participant in your physical body, enjoy it, have a good time with it, and learn how to simultaneously observe your experience, the impact of your experience, the effect your experience has on other people and yourself, and the results you get from all your experiences. Then whenever something of an extraordinary nature comes into your experience, you can say to yourself, "Oh goody, goody, here it is again, what can I learn from this?""
    • Sid: He chose to not react in situations and watched how things unraveled, rather than getting triggered a change of mindset, quote:
      "There is a conversion of your selves about to occur on this planet, the selves that you are about to meet are coming from all over the universe, these are selves that petrify you when you think about them, selves that you could die of a heart attack looking at them, they are selves that are you"
      Describing negative emotions and programs inside us, built up over years of bad incarnations, past karma, coming to the surface.
    • Arwenn: Laura says "How can you claim to love someone if all you like is the good parts of themselves?"
    • Keit: Love is knowledge, love is light, in order to love someone, it's not the accepted notion of chemical love, it's seeing them for what they are.
    • Bobo08: Important to differentiate, not just acknowledge, to make a choice, to want to be a light.
    • beetlemaniac: being able to discern between the light and the darkness and making the choice
    • Arwenn: In the earlier part, Candy's hypnotic regressions, C's mentioned her essences in other dimensions, not human, predators, we'll need to realize this and accept, will be like a thermonuclear blast, evil and darkness inherent in everyone, cannot hide from it.
    • Sid: That's why we can't see them, our task is to grow to the level where we're not affected by it, they are just an aspect of us.
    • Arwenn: Grateful when people asked for mirrors, shocks are hard, kudos to them for sharing, e.g. Pierre being jealous of Ark getting attention, hard thing to do but bringing an aspect of yourself into the light, that wants to manipulate the situation to get more attention, we have been manipulated as jealousy emanates from top of spine.
    • Sid: Bringing it out of the system, everybody else can see it, calms you down rather than feeling bad about having the feeling. Brutal honesty can get rid of the feeling of jealousy, it is really your machine and not you.
    • beetlemaniac: Gravity dispersal vs. gravity collection
    • Aya: Networking
    • Keit: Gorilla experiment, networking solves this problem, we have a limited apparatus, many people seeing at once solves that problem.
    • Arwenn: No other way to get an objective view of reality, distilling the constant through everyone's perception, seeing the Third Man in the mosaic consciosness of objective reality.
    • Sid: Five people could be seeing the same thing, but the sixth person sees something differently
    • Keit: Experiment where others sit in waiting room, a receptionist, social experiment where actors stand on cue and the subject conforms.
    • Sid: Authoritarian followers, another social experiment of someone pointing at the sky
    • Arwenn: A subject in a row of 7 other subjects, holds up 2+2=5, and he also says 5 though he knows the truth, peer pressure
Concluding Discussion
  • Arwenn: Frequency Resonance Vibration - Chapter 49 devoted to this topic
  • Adventures with Cassiopaea
  • Keit: Amazing Grace, a good book to read at a cross-points
  • Arwenn: it was a beautifully written book
  • Sid: Laura mentioned that she signed up for it
  • Keit: Chapter 9 is long, about monsters, like X-files, very interesting but good idea to not read it before sleep
  • Sid: Glad to know that there are no such things as vampires
  • Arwenn: Except energy vampires!
Next, we will be discussing Chapters 9 & 10 of the Wave Volume 1/2 on the 16th of May 2020, 10AM UTC. Hope to see you there!
 
Thanks @beetlemaniac, very good write up. The quote I was trying to remember when describing the ignorant behaviours of house of lords ie how authority figures suffering from character disorders react when presented with facts was from Blackadder. Gotta love that dark english humour.
General Melchett:
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through
How very apt with the Covid-19 reactions.
 
Thanks @beetlemaniac for a very comprehensive minutes of our meeting, complete with links and pictures! It was a great discussion, and I find myself thinking about these topics and concepts often throughout the day.

Thanks @beetlemaniac, very good write up. The quote I was trying to remember when describing the ignorant behaviours of house of lords ie how authority figures suffering from character disorders react when presented with facts was from Blackadder. Gotta love that dark english humour.

How very apt with the Covid-19 reactions.
No worries @Arwenn and @sid, I had some extra time on my hands this weekend as Monday was a public holiday. It's back to work tomorrow though! Also, a belated Mother's Day to you Arwenn! 💐

@sid, well I've had my first experience of that on Facebook and I don't intend to fan those flames too much. Just laying low and focus on what's in front of me to do should work, I hope. My father is quite amenable to facts, otherwise my family members, being mostly medical professionals are quite fixed in their minds about the way the Plandemic should be dealt with, since the medical establishment have been provided with all these standard operating procedures that they are required to adhere to, which is mostly based on keeping people isolated. It's been a while since I spoke to anyone openly about Coronavirus but recently I met an aunt who was willing to listen to my point of view. She was quite grateful to see me and we hugged before I left wishing her a Happy Mother's Day, going against protocol! She's one of those rare people who can think for themselves.
 
No worries @Arwenn and @sid, I had some extra time on my hands this weekend as Monday was a public holiday. It's back to work tomorrow though! Also, a belated Mother's Day to you Arwenn! 💐


Another thank you from here too for the detailed notes and video beetlemaniac 🥰

Finally got the Mega app sorted and was lovely to hear the Australian accents amidst observing the diversity of members.

Belated, belated Happy Mother’s Day also Arwenn 🌸
 
Thanks for doing the detailed minute after our reading session @bettlemaniac. When I read the minutes, it’s just hard to believe that we discuss so much. How amazing is that. Keep up the good work. :hug2: :-)
Thank you for being there Rashi. The Reading Workshops are a blessing in the storm of chaos, destruction and mind control all around us. I'm in love with it to say the least. It's the least I can do to pay back for all your thoughtful discussion, since I don't seem to have the experience and knowledge to contribute very much.

Another thank you from here too for the detailed notes and video beetlemaniac 🥰
You're welcome @gnosisxsophia, I hope you can join in some day as well, either here or in the other one, if you aren't already!
 

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