Chemtrails? CONtrails? Strange skies...

Pashalis said:
Bidoche said:
Perceval said:
Bidoche said:
Do yourselves a favor and check out this Introduction to Clouds:
http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/cloud_chart/

Not only are there NEW clouds in today's world, but many of them are the result of CHEMTRAILS. I kid you not!

Sez who?

Perceval, if you can't see the images (download the PDF) and notice that some of the clouds, for example the one identified as a Contrail, is in reality a chemical trail, you're obviously a mind-controlled muppet (sorry for my frankness). Get a Life!

aaahhh ok. I think you are more mind-controlled than he is.
are you a little bit emotional overexcited ?
maybe there are other factors that have to be considered and that's maybe what he's trying to tell you.


Thanks, guys, for showing me your light. I'm truly unhappy to be part of this forum and will no longer be posting. Obviously, you've shown me in these past few posts that my presence is upsetting you, so I'll leave you to your own ends.
 
ned
Bidoche said:
Pashalis said:
Bidoche said:
Perceval said:
Bidoche said:
Do yourselves a favor and check out this Introduction to Clouds:
http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/cloud_chart/

Not only are there NEW clouds in today's world, but many of them are the result of CHEMTRAILS. I kid you not!

Sez who?

Perceval, if you can't see the images (download the PDF) and notice that some of the clouds, for example the one identified as a Contrail, is in reality a chemical trail, you're obviously a mind-controlled muppet (sorry for my frankness). Get a Life!

aaahhh ok. I think you are more mind-controlled than he is.
are you a little bit emotional overexcited ?
maybe there are other factors that have to be considered and that's maybe what he's trying to tell you.


Thanks, guys, for showing me your light. I'm truly unhappy to be part of this forum and will no longer be posting. Obviously, you've shown me in these past few posts that my presence is upsetting you, so I'll leave you to your own ends.

If you want to than do so,
I must tell you that I had also times on this forum where I was emotional overexited and thought I'm right on the things I have posted. after some time has past by, I learned some thing's about me and saw my past post's with new eyes.

I'm simply blind to see "the truth" when I'm overexited.
so it's your decision to leave or to face the situation and learn something about you, the people on this forum and the search for the truth.
are you interested in the truth and not in wishfull thinking (believe something)?
 
Bidoche said:
Obviously, you've shown me in these past few posts that my presence is upsetting you, so I'll leave you to your own ends.

Bidoche, I don't think that is true at all. This forum is all about routing out the truth even in those "things" that appear to have irrefutable evidence backing them. Often we find the truth is a mixture of things that back no one particular explanation and its conclusions. And that "mission" must include subjective truth in yourself. What Perceval is saying is that we simply do not have all the facts on which to base a confident/viable conclusion to the chemtrail phenomenon.

Edit: Hit the wrong button.
 
LQB said:
Bidoche said:
Obviously, you've shown me in these past few posts that my presence is upsetting you, so I'll leave you to your own ends.

Bidoche, I don't think that is true at all. This forum is all about routing out the truth even in those "things" that appear to have irrefutable evidence backing them. Often we find the truth is a mixture of things that back no one particular explanation and its conclusions. And that "mission" must include subjective truth in yourself. What Perceval is saying is that we simply do not have all the facts on which to base a confident/viable conclusion to the chemtrail phenomenon.

Edit: Hit the wrong button.

Perceval wrote:
I don't think what people are seeing are contrails either. Is anyone who has opined on "chemtrails" a climatologist? More to the point, is anyone a climatologist with an open enough mind to realise that our planet's atmosphere is undergoing a major change that has not been seen for a looooooong time?

In the PDF file (http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/cloud_chart/PDFs/NOAA-NASA-CloudChart.pdf) from NOAA-NASA, there are photos of contrails which are in all appearance, chemtrails. NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) and NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration) both employ climatologists who, without a doubt, published this document, so they must be telling the truth. There's your answer if authority figures are what you require to make your own mind up. I personally believe this to be disinformation. Now tell me I'm wrong Mr. Sez who? (Perceval). How about a real discussion instead of consistently putting down those officially not-in-the-know?
 
Bidoche said:
Perceval said:
Bidoche said:
Do yourselves a favor and check out this Introduction to Clouds:
http://science-edu.larc.nasa.gov/cloud_chart/

Not only are there NEW clouds in today's world, but many of them are the result of CHEMTRAILS. I kid you not!

Sez who?

Perceval, if you can't see the images (download the PDF) and notice that some of the clouds, for example the one identified as a Contrail, is in reality a chemical trail, you're obviously a mind-controlled muppet (sorry for my frankness). Get a Life!


The two images that are identified as contrails are these:

contrails.jpg


Who can say that one or other or both of these are chemtrails and not contrails or clouds?
 
Bidoche said:
Thanks, guys, for showing me your light. I'm truly unhappy to be part of this forum and will no longer be posting. Obviously, you've shown me in these past few posts that my presence is upsetting you, so I'll leave you to your own ends.

I don't think your presence is upsetting anyone, I'm simply questioning your assertions and asking for more concrete evidence that the formations that many people claim categorically to be "chemtrails" are in fact that. I'm saying that, with the earth's atmosphere in a state of flux, we can't be certain about the origin of any formations that we see. And in fact, a far bigger conspiracy than alleged chemtrails involving atmospheric phenomena is the conspiracy of silence over cyclical catastrophes. In fact, I would suggest that it is possible that "chemtrails" is a deliberate distraction by government types to drag people off into unprovable theorizing about "chemtrails" and prevent them from wondering what might really be causing a change in atmospheric conditions.
 
Bidoche, allow me to share with you some personal "contact" with the type of people that create the propaganda such as "chemtrails" and HAARP controls weather... See: Adventures With Cassiopaea beginning here: http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/adventures065.htm

Meanwhile, I've merged all the different threads that discuss "chemtrails" and contrails and related phenomena so that you can easily go back over all that has been written on the topic before. Perhaps then you will understand our reluctance to have to do it all over again.
 
This is your government talking, so it must be THE TRUTH.
NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) and NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration) both employ climatologists who, without a doubt, published this document, so they must be telling the truth.

why do you think the Government, NASA or NOAA telling the truth?
If you really think so you should invest some time to research if they are sincere to the people.
 
It is very important to read this thread: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4764.0
for a LOT of discussion of contrails/chemtrails that cannot easily be split from that topic and merged here.
 
Pashalis said:
This is your government talking, so it must be THE TRUTH.
NOAA (National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) and NASA (National Aeronautics and Space Administration) both employ climatologists who, without a doubt, published this document, so they must be telling the truth.

why do you think the Government, NASA or NOAA telling the truth?
If you really think so you should invest some time to research if they are sincere to the people.

Pashalis, I was being cynical (not sarcastic). It is evident that governments everywhere are just out there to control us, not tell us what really is happening.
 
Laura said:
Bidoche, allow me to share with you some personal "contact" with the type of people that create the propaganda such as "chemtrails" and HAARP controls weather... See: Adventures With Cassiopaea beginning here: http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/adventures065.htm

Meanwhile, I've merged all the different threads that discuss "chemtrails" and contrails and related phenomena so that you can easily go back over all that has been written on the topic before. Perhaps then you will understand our reluctance to have to do it all over again.

Laura,
I see what you mean about hidden agendas; some interesting information in these Cassiopaen transcripts! I suppose the only tangible proof we will ever get about "chemtrails" would be from a whistleblower (and they're few and far between on the climate front).
 
A few things that should be considered when talking about so-called "chemtrails":

1) Obviously, there is some "spraying" that goes on and it's not for the benefit of humanity. I've heard a few stories from people about very low flying planes dispersing stuff that lands all over everything or makes people sick. And I do mean LOW flying.

2) Spraying that actually affects a designated area beneath the sprayer (the plane in question) must be at a fairly low altitude otherwise what is sprayed will not come down on the area beneath the spraying. This is due to the fact that our atmosphere has a number of layers and each layer has its own temperature and wind speed and direction, and very often, things in one layer take a very long time and distance to mix or mingle with other layers, IF they mix at all. Usually, the wind speeds in the upper layers are such that anything deposited there might only penetrate to lower, weather, layers, after many thousands of miles of travel. It's a very nonlinear situation and highly, impossibly, unpredictable.

3) So, if you are talking about chemical spraying that you can see above in the sky, that then falls on the area below it, you must be talking about low altitude spraying.

4) Therefore, trails that are very high in the sky that have no hope of ever interacting with the ground below them cannot properly be called "chemtrails" except, perhaps, if a chemical is being sprayed that is supposed to affect the weather (and even that is done fairly low). Cloud seeding is done by dispersing elements such as dry ice crystals or silver iodide in the atmosphere with an airplane or even ground based stations. Seeding clouds is believed to promote condensation of water droplets, thus, rain.

5) Cloud seeding is usually done TO clouds, it doesn't create them. Plus, it, too, must be done at a fairly low altitude in order for the effects to affect the area below the activity. Otherwise, the higher wind speeds in the upper layers will carry the silver iodide away, disperse it, and the desired effect will not be had. Here's a page about cloud seeding: http://www.sandylandwater.com/ops.htm

6) Small private planes fly at 12,000 feet maximum. Passenger airliners fly from 25,000 to 45,000 feet. The Concorde super-sonic transport cruised at Mach 2 at 57,000 feet. Miltary fighters get up to 80,000 feet, some specialty planes such as The U2 spy plane and the SR-71 are thought to go as high as 120,000 feet. the x-15 has a ceiling of 354,000 feet.

7) Cirrus clouds generally refer to atmospheric clouds that are characterized by thin, wisplike strands, often accompanied by tufts, leading to their common (non-standard) name of mare's tail.[1] Sometimes these clouds are so extensive that they are virtually indistinguishable from one another, forming a sheet of cirrus called cirrostratus. Sometimes convection at high altitudes produces another form of cirrus called cirrocumulus, a pattern of small cloud tufts which include droplets of freezed water. The term is also used for certain interstellar clouds composed of sub-micrometre sized dust grains.[2]

Many cirrus clouds produce hair like filaments made of the heavier ice crystals that precipitate from them. These "fall streaks", a form of virga, often indicate the difference in the motion of air (wind shear) between the upper part of the cirrus cloud and the air below it. Sometimes the top of the cirrus cloud is moving rapidly above a slower layer of air, or the streak is falling into a faster moving lower layer. The directions of these winds can also vary.

Cirrus clouds are formed when water vapor freezes into ice crystals at altitudes above 8000 meters (26,000 ft).[3] Due to the sparse moisture at a high altitude, they tend to be very thin.[1] At this altitude, aircraft leave condensation trails that can turn into cirrus clouds.[4] This happens when hot exhaust, mostly water, freezes, leaving a visible trail. Streaks may appear straight when wind shear is absent, giving the clouds the appearance of a comma (cirrus uncinus), or tangle, an indication of high-level turbulence. The falling ice crystals evaporate before reaching the ground.

Cirrus clouds cover up to 30% of the Earth and have a net heating effect. Cirrus clouds efficiently absorb outgoing infrared radiation (heat) beneath them (greenhouse effect), while only marginally reflecting incoming sunlight (albedo).[5]

A high number of cirrus clouds may be a sign of an approaching frontal system or upper air disturbance. This usually signals a change in weather in the near future, usually becoming increasingly stormy.[6] Cirrus clouds can also be the remnants of a thunderstorm. A large shield of cirrus and cirrostratus typically accompany the high altitude outflow of hurricanes or typhoons. Cirrus clouds have also been observed developing after the persistent formation of contrails from an aircraft. Increase in air traffic is a possible cause of an increasing amount of cirrus clouds.[7] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cirrus_cloud

8) Now, what is wrong with the picture presented above?

Answer: the altitude of cirrus clouds vs the altitude of many jetliners that criss-cross the skies with trails which are obviously much lower than the altitude designated for cirrus clouds.

YET the trails left by these aircraft ACT like cirrus clouds used to act at much higher altitudes.

Most logical (and scariest) conclusion: the cold layer of the upper atmosphere has gotten lower and probably thicker and therefore, more airplanes flying at lower altitudes are forming contrails in that icy air which used to be the much higher domain of cirrus clouds.

Because, again, if you understand about the layers of the atmosphere, temperatures, winds, etc, then you will realize that what is happening is NOT spraying of the human population or even intentional weather manipulation, it is the EVIDENCE that our planetary atmosphere has changed dramatically in the past ten years or so. More like 20 because that was when I began noticing the changes in cloud formation.

Earthatmosphere.GIF


9) Also notice that the trails left by planes at much LOWER altitudes, generally dissipate quickly. What is bad news is that they leave ANY trail at all at those altitudes! (And knowing how layers that form cirrus clouds function from the above, you can pretty well understand that they are not spraying stuff on the ground below. But certainly, there CAN be the natural formation of cirrus clouds by plane exhaust or fuel dumping AND low level spraying of "stuff" at the same time. I would suggest that such cases are "cover up" the same way the endless "gray alien abductions" are a cover-up for what aliens are REALLY doing on this planet.

For example, this very stupid video that is claimed to be "cloud seeding" _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OipybYHxRtI

It is not. What it is is evidence that the atmosphere layer that the plane is flying through is very cold. Now, whether that is a problem or not depends on where and what time of year the video was made. In some cases, cold air that low would not be out of season, so to say.

10) Do these activities have any effect on the weather?

Undoubtedly they do. But that is not intentional. See above discussion of cirrus clouds where the net effect is HEATING of the atmosphere.

What seems to be happening is that the area of weather phenomena - the troposphere - seems to have been compressed by an expanding (or dropping) stratosphere and the stratosphere itself seems to have changed it's characteristics. THIS is VERY concerning! These are signs and symptoms, along with many others that we have chronicled on sott, that something very unusual is going on in our cosmic neighborhood because weather changes are taking place on other planets, too. I can guarantee you that they aren't doing "chemtrails" on Mars or Jupiter or Saturn.

11) If you study the work of James McCanney, you will come to the understanding that the 5 layers of the Earth's atmosphere are also layers of alternating electrical charge. THIS IS IMPORTANT. McCanney also discusses how these electric flows around and on the earth interact with the sun to create our weather/climate. Piers Corbyn is becoming famous for utilizing similar principles for far more accurate weather predictions than the mainstream climatologists are able to work up. The fact that Corbyn CAN predict the weather as accurately as he does argues against the "chemtrails" being a weather modification activity. His method is concerned with solar activity, not so-called "chemtrails".

12) Regarding these layers of electromagnetism surrounding the Earth, in 1958 some things were done that may very well have a strong bearing on the conditions of our planet in the present day. I would like for you to think about this in respect of climate change, so-called “chem-trails” and HAARP.

Between August and September of 1958, the US Navy exploded three fission type nuclear bombs 480 km above the South Atlantic Ocean, in the part of the lower Van Allen Belt closest to the earth's surface. In addition, two hydrogen bombs were detonated 160 km over Johnston Island in the Pacific. The military called this "the biggest scientific experiment ever undertaken." It was designed by the US Department of Defense and the US Atomic Energy Commission, under the code name Project Argus. The purpose appears to be to assess the impact of high altitude nuclear explosions on radio transmission and radar operations because of the electromagnetic pulse (EMP), and to increase understanding of the geomagnetic field and the behavior of the charged particles in it. This gigantic experiment created new (inner) magnetic radiation belts encompassing almost the whole earth, and injected sufficient electrons and other energetic particles into the ionosphere to cause world wide effects. The electrons traveled back and forth along magnetic force lines, causing an artificial "aurora" when striking the atmosphere near the North Pole. This was reported only much later, on August 13-20th of 1961 in Keesings Historisch Archief (K.H.A.). The report said that the US Military planned to create a "telecommunications shield in the ionosphere at 3,000 km height, by bringing into orbit 350,000 million copper needles, each 2-4 cm long [total weight 16 kg], forming a belt 10 km thick and 40 km wide, the needles spaced about 100 m apart." This was designed to replace the ionosphere "because telecommunications are impaired by magnetic storms and solar flares." The US planned to add to the number of copper needles if the experiment proved to be successful. This plan was strongly opposed by the International Union of Astronomers."

Then:

On July 9th, 1962, the US began a further series of experiments with the ionosphere. From their description: "one kiloton device, at a height of 60 km and one megaton and one multi-megaton, at several hundred kilometers height". (K.H.A., 29 June 1962).

These tests seriously disturbed the lower Van Allen Belt, substantially altering its shape and intensity. "In this experiment the inner Van Allen Belt will be practically destroyed for a period of time; particles from the Belt will be transported to the atmosphere. It is anticipated that the earth's magnetic field will be disturbed over long distances for several hours, preventing radio communication. The explosion in the inner radiation belt will create an artificial dome of polar light that will be visible from Los Angeles". (K.H.A. 11 May 1962).

This was the experiment which called forth the strong protest of the Queen's Astronomer, Sir Martin Ryle in the UK. On the 19th of July... NASA announced that as a consequence of the high altitude nuclear test of July 9th, a new radiation belt had been formed, stretching from a height of about 400 km to 1600 km; it can be seen as a temporary extension of the lower Van Allen Belt" (K.H.A. 5 August 1962).

"... Starfish made a much wider belt [than Project Argus] that extends from low altitude out past L=3 [i.e. three earth radiuses or about 13,000 km above the surface of the earth]."Later in 1962, the USSR undertook similar planetary experiments, creating three new radiation belts between 7,000 and 13,000 km above the earth. According to the Encyclopedia, the electron fluxes in the lower Van Allen Belt have changed markedly since the 1962 high-altitude nuclear explosions by the US and USSR, never returning to their former state. According to American scientists, it could take many hundreds of years for the Van Allen Belts to destabilize at their normal levels.”

Keep in mind now that, while they are out there blowing up our atmosphere, they want to blame Global Warming on the masses of regular people!

Added to this: During the 1980's, rocket launches globally numbered about 500 to 600 a year, peaking at 1500 in 1989. There were many more during the Gulf War. The Shuttle is the largest of the solid fuel rockets, with twin 45 meter boosters. All solid fuel rockets release large amounts of hydrochloric acid in their exhaust, each Shuttle flight injecting about 75 tons of ozone destroying chlorine into the stratosphere. Those launched since 1992 inject even more ozone-destroying chlorine, about 187 tons, into the stratosphere (which contains the ozone layer).

I think that I have presented more than sufficient food for thought on the topic of so-called "chemtrails" to suggest that, yes, there is something really wicked going on, but it ain't what you think. In fact, it's worse.
 
As usual, what we think we know at first glance about this world is generally wrong. It is generally much worse and more evil than we can imagine or would like to believe. The idea that the truth is hidden is not to be taken lightly. That's why a truly open and questioning and suspicious mind is vital when attempting to discern the nature of the powers that rule over us. Knowledge truly is the only thing that will set us free, and that is why it takes long questioning and requestioning if we are to hope to get to a close approximation of what it is we are confronting.
 
Thank you, all, for a VERY interesting and informative discussion! The info about the atmospheric nuclear detonations in 1958 was a real eye-opener for me (horrifying!). I'm going to do some more reading on that topic, and others mentioned here, as I'd like to know more about it, particularly why the US really wanted to put all those copper needles in the upper atmosphere (I doubt it was just for communications reasons). May not be able to uncover the real reasons, but maybe enough to form a hypothesis?

The machinations of the PTB never cease to amaze and horrify me!
 
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