Chief Feature

[Iron]

I think that trying to see one's chief feature, especially when beggining the work is doomed to fail. I think it would be like seeing the predator in full force with fangs, teeth and rotting breath.
These attempts to understand what the chief feature is in you are being made with one of the "I", and this vision is likely to change.
I think the chief feature is linked to deep core trauma/narcissic injury and at best we can see only indirect aspects of the issue. As the emotional healing progresses, looking back maybe we can have a better idea of what may be our chief feature, but I would be very cautious before making a definitive assessment. It seems to me too big of an aim.
Perhaps this is one of the reasons the cassiopeans some times say to Laura and others to look back into 5 or so years and compare to where they are now in terms of development. To gain further insight to where they need to go now.

 

[Jakesully]

Strange. As I was reading your post, Trevrizent, and contemplating on what my Chief Feature could be, I eventually honed in on the fact that I have the tendency to wring my hands together and roll the flakes of dead skin into a ball that I then roll between my first/middle finger and thumb endlessly. Not sure if this IS the Chief Feature or a subsequent program.

In any case, as I was reading, I decided to stop fidgeting like this, and instead of acting or resisting, simply observing the sensation of *wanting* to fidget. And as I continued reading and observing myself, I suddenly felt overcome with a very intense and emotional release in the form of laughter. Still trying to get a handle on what's happening and what's being released, if anything.

Alada: thanks for the response, I can see how that is so.

I don't think that a chief feature is fidgeting; it is rather a psychological thing, usually doing or thinking something that one thinks (lies to the self) is one thing, but is actually something else altogether. Probably a good passage to contemplate in this regard is Gurdjieff's comments on "abuse of sex" and the "Louse on the Lady's Bonnet" post that is somewhere here in the forum.

So, I read Gurdjieff's comments on abuse of sex. I'm still attempting to understand what happened with regard to fidgeting, so I have some questions.

Could it be the case that this fidgeting is the sex center uniting with the negative part of the instinctive center? And when I attempted to interrupt this interaction of the sex and negative instinctive centers, could it be the case that the sex center then united with the negative emotional center, resulting in that feeling of a very intense emotional "release?" I suppose a subsequent question is, are these improper interactions in regards to the sex center uniting with other centers a more or less "fixed" improper feature, or do they only unite under certain circumstances, when certain programs are triggered or running?

 

[Approaching Infinity]

I don't think that a chief feature is fidgeting; it is rather a psychological thing, usually doing or thinking something that one thinks (lies to the self) is one thing, but is actually something else altogether. Probably a good passage to contemplate in this regard is Gurdjieff's comments on "abuse of sex" and the "Louse on the Lady's Bonnet" post that is somewhere here in the forum.

So, I read Gurdjieff's comments on abuse of sex. I'm still attempting to understand what happened with regard to fidgeting, so I have some questions.

I think Laura was referring to those sources in relation to chief feature, not fidgeting. I.e., Chief feature is a psychological thing, not a psychomotor thing like fidgeting. It's something we do, some way we present ourselves, that gives others an impression that doesn't match up with the way we interpret it. For example, a chief feature can be "talking too much". A person may have the idea that they're eloquent, engaging, smart, funny, that everyone loves to be around them, etc., when in reality they're just waiting for him to shut up. Gurdjieff said it is an "involuntary manifestation" which gives a different impression to others. Nicknames often capture chief features. So I suppose fidgeting COULD be a chief feature, but only if it applied more generally to a personality. But the physical act of fidgeting can just be a habit or nervous energy outlet. Here are the chief features G mentions in ISOTM:

-He is "never at home".
-He "did not exist at all".
-He "always argues". (response: I never argue!) ;)
-He has "no conscience". (response: the dude went to look up the word in 4 dictionaries.)
-He "has no shame". (The dude cracks a joke about himself.)

 

[Bar Kochba]

One other point with regards to fidgeting: Gurdjieff suggested removing all unecessary movements, thoughts, and feelings from our daily life because they waste energy. To obtain the energy we need to Work, we have to conserve. FWIW

 

[anart]

But the physical act of fidgeting can just be a habit or nervous energy outlet. Here are the chief features G mentions in ISOTM:

I think fidgeting is an example of the motor center running on the energy of one of the other centers - most likely the emotional center. Fidgeting is a great thing to use to self-observe - when you notice it, stop it and see how long it takes to forget yourself and start again - usually, not long.

 

[Dorothy Minder]

[The Chief Feature] is rather a psychological thing, usually doing or thinking something that one thinks (lies to the self) is one thing, but is actually something else altogether. .

I imagine I'm not alone here in having discovered quite a few of those....

That said, it seems that for me the most persistent of these lies -- the one that shaped my personality on the deepest level and the one I failed to recognize despite plenty of clues (obvious in retrospect) -- is mistaking selfish escape, fear of emotional investment and responsibility, and lack of follow through for self-sufficiency, independence, and free thinking. Interestingly, beginning the work, I started to recognize this fundamental twist in my thinking but actually considered it a virtue: non-attachment! Looking back, I see how the urge to "cut and run" and my ongoing, willful self-exile arose as a natural defense against the abuse I suffered from my psychopathic father. I laugh now that I see it. Running for my life in any direction but home, and calling myself a pioneer. A peculiar distortion that seems very much in line with the following:

-He "always argues". (response: I never argue!) ;)
-He has "no conscience". (response: the dude went to look up the word in 4 dictionaries.)
-He "has no shame". (The dude cracks a joke about himself.)

The psychological resources recommended on this board have been invaluable, so a big thank you to all involved in researching, discussing and vetting the books, websites, and other media on narcissism and psychopathy.

I'm sure I have more issues to work through, so I won't claim to have seen my chief feature clearly or in its entirety, but my new eyes are adjusting and I think it's taking shape. Now to turn the lights up.

 

[Gertrudes]

But the physical act of fidgeting can just be a habit or nervous energy outlet. Here are the chief features G mentions in ISOTM:

I think fidgeting is an example of the motor center running on the energy of one of the other centers - most likely the emotional center. Fidgeting is a great thing to use to self-observe - when you notice it, stop it and see how long it takes to forget yourself and start again - usually, not long.

I think so too. Fidgeting seems to be a way of channeling misdirected energy. Following Anart's thoughts on the motor center usurping the energy of the emotional center, fidgeting seems to happen when we're anxious about certain feelings, although we might be completely unaware of the anxiety, and to prevent ourselves from experiencing those feelings we resort to fidgeting. It can be our way of not being fully present in the situation that we find (often unconsciously) uncomfortable.

I think the chief feature is linked to deep core trauma/narcissic injury and at best we can see only indirect aspects of the issue. As the emotional healing progresses, looking back maybe we can have a better idea of what may be our chief feature, but I would be very cautious before making a definitive assessment. It seems to me too big of an aim.

This is also how I perceived it. Although when digging past that, a chief feature seems to always have at its root a need to act in favour of one's own false personality. This, in the end, is simply the expression of our own 3D STS world. In that sense I think that a chief feature is probably the manifestation of the mechanism we've gained through childhood experiences that deffends the false I.

 

[Jakesully]

Thanks for all of the input on fidgeting. Right now I've decided to make conscious efforts (perhaps super efforts?) to STOP fidgeting, and whenever I get the urge to do so, I do some pipe breaths.

 

[Bar Kochba]

Repressing the fidgeting probably isn't a good thing to do. I can recall A. R. Orage telling C. S. Nott to satisfy certain whims that Nott had, but not to cultivate them. You could apply the same thing to fidgeting, perhaps. When you begin to fidget, simply let it pass and relax. You can use this same idea for internal considerings and undesirable emotions and thoughts. Observe others fidgeting in public places, standing in lines, etc. Some people cannot rest or be still for even one moment; they must constantly speak or move or think crazy outlandish thoughts. Nervous wasted energy.
BTW, I do believe there is a difference between a "posture" type habit or gesture, and fidgeting. Fidgeting is bouncing your leg up and down constantly or tapping your fingers or cracking your knuckles, or what you describe, Jakesully. A habitual gesture would be scratching your head when confronted with a problem, or folding your arms while standing and speaking.

 

[Gertrudes]

Thanks for all of the input on fidgeting. Right now I've decided to make conscious efforts (perhaps super efforts?) to STOP fidgeting, and whenever I get the urge to do so, I do some pipe breaths.

Fwiw I agree with Bar Kochba. I don't think that stopping the fidgeting would be the way to go, at least not without some inner observation. When you catch yourself fidgeting again, my suggestion would be to observe what is going on inside you versus the external situation you are inserted in at that moment. Observe your thoughts, your feelings, observe the situation itself and with time, you might start getting a clearer perspective of what is causing the fidgeting and why.

Fidgeting can be a way of dissociating I think, so you might put the following question: what in this situation is creating in me the urge to dissociate?

As you observe, you might slow down the fidgeting, or the fidgeting might even stop on its own once it's being observed, but putting a stop to it might be a little too forceful and can perhaps take you even further away from the root issue. So, rather then suppressing it, perhaps you could observe and use it to understand a little bit more about what's causing it.

 

[Jakesully]

Well, my thoughts are that the unconscious program of fidgeting at one time had a root cause: boredom. Sheer boredom. Possibly also nervousness, or the sense of bewilderment that is common to those who begin seeking a spiritual path. However, as I've grown and progressed to the "path of Access", these causes have lessened, so that it's simply an unconscious program that retains the muscle memory of repetition, and the concurrent wasting of subtle energies.

 

[anart]

Well, my thoughts are that the unconscious program of fidgeting at one time had a root cause: boredom. Sheer boredom. Possibly also nervousness, or the sense of bewilderment that is common to those who begin seeking a spiritual path. However, as I've grown and progressed to the "path of Access", these causes have lessened, so that it's simply an unconscious program that retains the muscle memory of repetition, and the concurrent wasting of subtle energies.

Jakesully, it seems to me that you are a person who is chasing perfection as if it is something outside you. You follow all these 'paths', you take courses, you buy pendulums, you probably buy crystals and go to meditation retreats or different things, all in an attempt to chase down, purchase or force that which you think you are missing. You never seem to just stop and consider the idea that you CANNOT FORCE GROWTH.

You lack patience and understanding and think that if you just 'do the right thing', or 'access the right path' or have the right books, or live in the right place, you will become who you want to be, a person with no imperfections, or at least 'man number 4'.

All of this is illusion. All of this chasing of external signs and symbols of growth will lead you down many a primrose path, all the while you are still stuck with yourself.

I would suggest that you just stop. Stop thinking that enlightenment is something that you can 'attain' and start to understand that until you deeply - deeply - understand yourself, you will not change. I'm assuming you've read all of the psychological material that is on the recommended reading list? If not, please do. You are so desperately searching outside yourself for something that will turn you into who you 'think' you are supposed to be that you've missed the point that all you need is inside yourself - you simply must learn to see it and work with it, so that you eventually Know it and, in that, everything will be as it should be.

 

[realitybugll]

This comes from "Our life with Mr. Gurdjieff" It is by Thomas and Olga de Harmann (if I got that spelling right). But it is edited quite heavily, as in structure and organization but not in changing of the words, by this gurdjieff student and his son and wife.

One day after Gymnastics Mr Gurdjieff began to speak about confession, real confession, and how it was practised in esoteric schools. Real confession had no relation to confession in the churches, for its essence consisted in the necessity for a man to see his own defects not as sinful but as a hindrance to his development. In esoteric schools there were men of high attainment who studied the nature of a man as a whole. Their pupils were people who wished to develop their being. They spoke sincerely and openly about their inner search, how to achieve their aim, how to approach it, and of their characteristics that stood in the way. To go to such real confession one had to make a major decision: to see one's real defects and to speak about them. Mr Gurdjieff told us that this was absolutely essential - especially for one to see his chief feature, the one around which (as around an axis) turn all his stupid, comical, secondary weaknesses.

From the first days Mr Gurdjieff had spoken with us about this chief weakness. To see it and to realize it is very painful, sometimes unbearable. In esoteric schools, as I have mentioned, when the chief weakness is made clear to a man, it is revealed with great care, because the truth about himself can sometimes bring a man to such despair that he might end his life. A spiritual tie with the teacher prevents such a tragedy. Holy Scripture speaks of the moment of realizing one's chief defect when it says that when you are struck on the right cheek, you must then turn the left one. The pain of discovering your chief defect is like the shock of receiving a slap in the face. A man must find in himself the strength not to run away from this pain, but boldly to turn the other cheek - that is, to listen and accept further truth about himself.

One day Mr Gurdjieff called us to his room one after another. We sat on the carpet before him and he began to talk about how to reach that depth in oneself from which alone it is possible to face oneself sincerely… [text diverges from this topic here]

I can't really comment because I have not made sense of this idea in my mind yet. I found the bolded part interesting.

 

[cubbex]

Thanks Laura, reading the Louse on the Lady's Bonnet post was VERY informative and helped me understand some things.

The way I've been behaving has been a more subtle form of the "right man". Not so strong that I have been turned off by being provided a mirror, but still enough that I was subconsciously "self-calming" and compensating. And now I understand why Anart specifically used the word compensating in the other thread.

Furthermore, I think I work in the way of Man #2.
Going to read Gurdjieff's comments on abuse of sex in a moment. Time for a healthy smoke break. :)

Why is so important the thing about man 1, 2,3,4, 56, or 3.14159265... ??

Just work on it. And as I remember I think we all here follow the way man #4 where you apply the work in an usual life.

 

[obyvatel]

Why is so important the thing about man 1, 2,3,4, 56, or 3.14159265... ??

Have you read "In Search of the Miraculous" by Ouspensky? The description of Man 1,2,3 comes from there. It is also described in Mouravieff's Gnosis trilogy.

[quote author=Brunauld]
Just work on it. And as I remember I think we all here follow the way man #4 where you apply the work in an usual life.
[/quote]
The forum is based on 4th Way teachings. Man 4 is something different.

[quote author=ISOTM]

"Man number four is not born ready-made. He is born one, two, or three, and becomes four only as a result of efforts of a definite character. Man number four is always the product of school work. He can neither be born, nor develop accidentally or as the result of ordinary influences of bringing up, education, and so on. Man number four already stands on a different level to man number one, two, and three; he has a permanent center of gravity which consists in his ideas, in his valuation of the work, and in his relation to the school. In addition his psychic centers have already begun to be balanced; one center in him cannot have such a preponderance over others as is the case with people of the first three categories. He already begins to know himself and begins to know whither he is going.

[/quote]