Civil War in Ukraine: Western Empire vs Russia

[Mr.Cyan]

Just saw on RT, that Kerry, Merkel and Hollande are visiting Kiev today - while and Merkel and Hollande will subsequently visit Putin in Moscow tomorrow after Kiev to discuss the ending of the Ukrainian civil war...

http://rt.com/news/229551-us-kerry-ukraine-weapons/
http://rt.com/news/229563-hollande-merkel-ukraine-peace/


Hmmmm right after the Debaltsevo cauldron was closed and surrounded by the NAF, we have the empire of chaos scrambling around to sue for peace ? I wonder if this is a joint effort between US/EU to buy more time for Kiev while they re-arm the junta with more weapons; or if this is a sign there may be a split between the US and EU in handling the war....I doubt it but interesting to ponder.....

Wish i could be a fly on the wall in the Putin, Merkel and Hollande meeting......

 

[griffin]

Just saw on RT, that Kerry, Merkel and Hollande are visiting Kiev today - while and Merkel and Hollande will subsequently visit Putin in Moscow tomorrow after Kiev to discuss the ending of the Ukrainian civil war...

Biden is involved too. http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/02/05/3174

The wheels are coming off for the fascist junta in Kiev, so its sponsors are frantically trying to save it.

 

[Siberia]

this is Butusov, which Be calls a brillant guy and patriot. there's a lot about him, I will not enumerate all of this, because it's not worth it. I'm just striving for the truth and objectivity, especially when I see that someone is trying to spread lies here. because all these lies kills and causes suffering to thousands of people in Ukraine.

sorry if anywhere my words sound sharply.

When someone comes to your home with a sword, sharpness in response is very understandable. And Be obviously came to attack: he started with blaming the Forum and SoTT of bias and then went on explaining why the Kiev aggressors are actually "patriots" and why we should honor them for their "patriotism."

I wonder if he would be the same "objective," "unbiased" and "all emotionless," when some of those "patriots" knock on his door?..

When the same nightmare was going on in Chechnya in the 90s, and then Putin came to power, he simply made a deal with the Chechen leaders: he gave them very good money to restore the ruined infrastructure and provided them with their rights in the form of republic. Now Chechens are our best defenders: they are loyal to Russia and secure our borders efficiently.

Why not doing the same in Ukraine? Just return to the people of Donbass their rights (for their language, culture and history) and help them restore the ruined.. everything. Why shelling the hell out of Donbass? The only reason is: they don't need peace, they don't need any compromise or partnership. They just need to ethnically cleanse the land to further exploit it.

 

[thorbiorn]

Today there was an article in Russia Insider written by Phil Butler from which I have taken a few excerpts:

American Weapons to Ukraine: Beyond the Point of No Return
[...]
News today from the Wall Street Journal, the Atlantic, and from Reuters to the LA Times reads; “Arm Kiev.” Well, at least it appears newspaper owners or their reporters, or the governmental press offices one, are all in favor of pressuring Russia until a real war breaks out.
[...]
I imagine, aliens from outer space watching 1 million refugees flee Ukraine toward Russia foretells of choices other than the Obama administration’s directives on the matter. Just recently Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk signed a decree disallowing national ID travel in between Ukraine and Russia, a move some say was meant to keep those who would flee Ukraine inside.

And what if those same space aliens witnessed 12 months of eastward bound artillery strikes and cluster bombing attacks, onto schools, hospitals, and bus stations in places held by separatists?
[...]
Next, a projectile landing deep inside Donetsk, devastating a bus stop there, only so those arrayed against Russian speakers could once again blame the separatists, this time for trying to kill themselves.

Across the street from the bus station hit, tanks and other equipment were being repaired for the counter-offensive. I assure you, most of what you see and read from the likes of BBC and the Washington Post, it lacks the credibility of presenting both sides.

News today is not even news, it’s editorial presented as the truth, an rebroadcast across thousands of channels. Don’t take my word or the BBC’s, just follow the trail if dead women and children from Donetsk to the lines of refugees headed to Russia, and you’ll see who the aggressor really is.
[...]
The facts really are so transparent we’ve all known all along, this was about America NeoCons versus the Russians. We should have known the instant a powerful US Senator waved his flag in the center of Maidan Square in Kiev. Come on, none of us is really so stupid. I quote from the timeline of Euromaidan:

“Opposition party Batkivshchyna faction leader Arseniy Yatsenyuk called for…Approximately 2,000 people converged in the evening of 22 November on Maidan Nezalezhnosti (Independence Square) to protest the decision of the Ukrainian government to suspend the process of integration of Ukraine into the European Union.”

Let me say here, the party of Yatsenyuk has a stated policy of ending the war on Donbass by force, a stated policy of wanting to belong with NATO, and is opposed to Russian as one of the official languages of Ukraine.
[...]
Expecting Russia to greet NATO missiles 250 miles from Moscow, is insane. The only rational for this policy I can think of is an effort to cover up some undiscovered catastrophe Obama and these other leaders have fraught for humanity.

The undiscovered catastrophe is the collapse of the US Dollar.
Regarding the suppressive influence of the Kiev regime this article says a lot: http://www.sott.net/article/292292-Heartbreaking-stories-Letter-from-a-Ukrainian-girl

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

Opposition leaders in Russia have announced to the Mayor of Moscow their intention to hold a mass demonstration in Moscow on March 1st.
It is supposed to be called "Anti-crisis march: Spring", among the signatories of the declaration are Alexey Navalny and M. Khodorkovsky.

These are the leaders of the 'European integrationist' fifth-column political opposition to the Russian government. It's supported by US NGOs, but doesn't have much support among the Russian population.

Yes, people of Russia and Belarus, also, perfectly sees to what led "revolution of dignity" (how supporters of Maidan called it) in Ukraine, and they just will immediately "cool down" these liberal traitors.

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

When someone comes to your home with a sword, sharpness in response is very understandable. And Be obviously came to attack: he started with blaming the Forum and SoTT of bias and then went on explaining why the Kiev aggressors are actually "patriots" and why we should honor them for their "patriotism."

I wonder if he would be the same "objective," "unbiased" and "all emotionless," when some of those "patriots" knock on his door?..

When the same nightmare was going on in Chechnya in the 90s, and then Putin came to power, he simply made a deal with the Chechen leaders: he gave them very good money to restore the ruined infrastructure and provided them with their rights in the form of republic. Now Chechens are our best defenders: they are loyal to Russia and secure our borders efficiently.

Why not doing the same in Ukraine? Just return to the people of Donbass their rights (for their language, culture and history) and help them restore the ruined.. everything. Why shelling the hell out of Donbass? The only reason is: they don't need peace, they don't need any compromise or partnership. They just need to ethnically cleanse the land to further exploit it.

you're absolutely right, I totally agree with this.

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

Just saw on RT, that Kerry, Merkel and Hollande are visiting Kiev today - while and Merkel and Hollande will subsequently visit Putin in Moscow tomorrow after Kiev to discuss the ending of the Ukrainian civil war...
<...>

I caught a glimpse saw part of speech Kerry in Kiev, Ukrainian TV channel that broadcast. they translated his words as:
"We must help people of Ukraine, because WE SEE how daily its border crossing Russian tanks, dozens of tanks everyday, and a lot of soldiers and mercenaries in uniform with no insignia, that help so-called separatists to kill Ukrainians."
This is what is shown in Ukrainian news.

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

Biden is involved too. http://russia-insider.com/en/2015/02/05/3174

The wheels are coming off for the fascist junta in Kiev, so its sponsors are frantically trying to save it.

Patriarch Filaret of Kiev awarded John McCain the Order of Holy Prince Vladimir

russian.rt.com/article/72583

the one who brought all these bloody revolutions and wars in dozens of countries, awards Ukrainian Orthodox Church caved in under the Nazis and junta.
this world is begs for cometary bombardment every day more and more...

 

[thorbiorn]

From the youtube channel of South Front there is this report of the situation as they perceive it.

http://<iframe width="640" height="...ge" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Notice the credits at the end of the video with familiar sites.

On the FB of Berkut Ukraine there are some FB uploaded videos. One of them makes a very graphic comparison between the slaughter of Palestinians and the Kiev regime's actions in Donbas. I leave the link but there is some shocking footage of the death and destruction caused by the Kiev shelling of civilians, so careful https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=757249964368363&video_source=pages_finch_thumbnail_video
But if you watch it and need to cheer up then this old USSR animation of Hitler is a good laugh: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=773540272739332&set=vb.574477605978934&type=3&video_source=pages_video_set

For anyone interested in a quick intro to Ukraine radical nationalism:

What Banderism, Ideology of Radical Ukraine Nationalists Entails (Video)

This video is an example of Russian grass-roots political pamphleteering.

It is well made and gives useful basic historical background on subjects the western media and Kiev would rather forget—the incredibly violent and extremist nature of radical Ukrainian nationalism, so called "Banderism".

It is definitely worth a watch for people not fully aware of what Banderism and its desciples, especially Right Sector and Svoboda Party.

http://<iframe width="640" height="...ed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That said at times the short video is less than clear on the difference between Ukraine nationalism in general (Ukrainstvo) and Banderism (extremist “Integral Nationalism” developed in the 1930s).

Viewer should be aware there are also plenty of Ukraine nationalists who are not Banderists.

Prominent historical examples are the Romanticist 19th century poet Taras Shevchenko (the father of Ukrainian literature) and Symon Petliura (the leader of the short-lived Ukrainian People’s Republic during the Russian Civil War).

Both, Shevchenko and Petliura are figures of national importance and more crucial to Ukrainian national identity than the controversial regional warlord Stepan Bandera.

Just like there are many Ukraine nationalist that are not Banderites, there are hopefully also many Ukraine nationalists who can not identify with the violent oppressive behaviours of some Ukraine nationalists, although it seems there are quite a few.

Before closing: There have been serious talks with IMF who wishes to raise the prices of gas 7 times, whereas the government only will accept 25 %. _https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=778147948945231&id=574477605978934

 

[thorbiorn]

After reading http://www.sott.net/article/292312-SOTT-Exclusive-Courageous-Ukrainian-women-speak-out I looked up Victoria Shilovaya's temporary FB, because FB decided to stop her from posting on the other for the duration of one month beginning January 26. (She writes about it in Russian here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1537946309821473&set=a.1535764636706307.1073741828.100008183553280&type=1 )

Anyhow, this is her thinking about the role of the US in all this:

US must urgently stop the bloodshed in the Donbass!

Dear compatriots!
It was American cookies Nuland have launched bloodshed in Ukraine. It was a year ago. Then about a hundred people were killed on the Maidan. But this was not enough for Obama and America, with its puppet regime in Kiev, without declaring war, attacked the Ukrainian people.

The theory of soft power in action. Ukrainian people experienced genocide on all fronts: spiritual, moral, physical. It was on the orders of America Turchinov began ATO. It was on the orders of America in Ukraine, was elected Poroshenko, who "successfully" conducted four waves of mobilization. It was American warriors instruct our army, and then handed back from ATO cripples plaque for nine dollars. That America through the IMF and the "Big Three" in Ukraine has frozen pensions and salaries.
Crime against the Ukrainian people from the American regime are endless. Thanks to him, this regime, we actually lost state, and in our country, in Ukraine, the authorities of non-Ukrainians and the Cabinet of Ministers of rights of foreign nationals.

America brewed this mess, let him now and disentangles itself. Let him take the collar of his incapable of governance henchmen and thinks how to return peace to the Donbass. We ANTIVOYNA movement, demanding the US immediately influence the policies of their puppets in Ukraine and make Poroshenko to cease hostilities in the Donbas and killing of civilians!!

On the page of Viktoria Shilova I found a link to a 14 minute long vidoe by Sheikh Imran Hosein who apparently is a top scholar of Islam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imran_N._Hosein I wondered what a sheikh could have to say about Ukraiine, but he is very well informed as you can see in this video. Like a grandfather to his children, he tells the story of Russia and Ukraine going back to before the Russian revolution and moving forward until the coup in Ukraine.

http://<iframe width="640" height="...ge" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

English speech with Russian subs.
The website is http://www.imranhosein.org/video.html
Sheikh Imran also made a message to the Muslims in France. He understands it was a false flag and what awaits Muslims living in France, therefore he advices them to withdraw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhz6W9lZ3b4 On the way he drops a few remarks about the role of Russia.

 

[marek760]

Ukrainian parliament passes law allowing army deserters to be shot

_http://rt.com/news/229739-ukraine-army-shoot-defectors/

Well, they are good at shooting and bombing their own civilian people!, now they will kill their own soldiers.

 

[Aeneas]

Thank you Thorbjorn,
I enjoyed that! Imran Hosein is a breath of fresh air and has a firm grasp of the history.

On the page of Viktoria Shilova I found a link to a 14 minute long vidoe by Sheikh Imran Hosein who apparently is a top scholar of Islam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imran_N._Hosein I wondered what a sheikh could have to say about Ukraiine, but he is very well informed as you can see in this video. Like a grandfather to his children, he tells the story of Russia and Ukraine going back to before the Russian revolution and moving forward until the coup in Ukraine.

http://<iframe width="640" height="...ge" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Jeremy F Kreuz]

Article from AP on the Merkel/Hollande initiative. Kerry stressing that the objective is `to change Russia´s behavior´ is telling imho. That they are supposed to propose a new deal based on the current frontline seems to indicate the situation for the Junta is dire.

Merkel, Hollande bring peace plan to Kiev before Moscow push
Publication: Agence France-Presse | Provider: Agence France-Presse | February 05, 2015 (21:52)
By Jo BIDDLE and Charles ONIANS

Kiev, Feb 5, 2015 (AFP) - German Chancellor Angela Merkel and French President Francois Hollande flew to Kiev Thursday with a new peace plan, in the biggest diplomatic push yet to halt an upsurge in deadly fighting in eastern Ukraine. The two European leaders, who will present the plan to Russia Friday, arrived hot on the heels of US Secretary of State John Kerry, who said that Moscow held the cards to end the conflict.
The renewed efforts to end the 10-month conflict came as Washington weighs sending arms for Kiev's fight with pro-Russian separatists.
At least 21 people have been killed in fresh clashes in the past 24 hours, as the separatists attempt to push deeper into government-held territory.

Kerry threw Washington's weight behind the latest peace initiative, although Ukraine's premier said he was sceptical.
"President Putin can make the choices that could end this war," Kerry said after meeting Ukrainian leaders, voicing support for the "helpful" Franco-German plan to be put to the Russian leader on Friday.

"There must be an immediate commitment now to a real ceasefire, which is not just a piece of paper with words, but which is followed by specific actions," Kerry told journalists. Kerry added that US President Barack Obama would "soon" decide on whether to arm Ukraine, but stressed his preference for a diplomatic solution.

- 'No proxy war' - "We are not interested in a proxy war, our objective is to change Russia's behaviour and we'll consider all options that are available to us in coordination with our partners that will help us achieve a negotiated solution," Kerry said.
Russia, itself accused of arming the separatists, warned that any US move to send weapons to Ukraine would cause "colossal damage" to ties, foreign ministry spokesman Alexander Lukashevich said.

Kerry is to meet Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov at a security conference in Munich on Saturday, ahead of Obama holding a "very important" meeting with Merkel at the White House on Monday, Kerry said.
The new plan offers greater autonomy within Ukraine for the separatists, and across a larger area than agreed at the last truce deal in Minsk in September, Germany's Sueddeutsche Zeitung said. Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko had to understand this was his country's last chance to avoid military defeat and economic collapse, while Putin was warned to count on fresh European Union sanctions, the paper said, citing unnamed sources.
- NATO bolsters defences - Speaking in Paris before heading to Kiev Hollande said that he and Merkel would "propose a new solution to the conflict based on the territorial integrity of Ukraine".
He said the plan would be discussed with Poroshenko on Thursday and Putin in Moscow on Friday, but warned that diplomacy "cannot go on indefinitely". Despite the diplomatic momentum behind the new plan, Ukrainian Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk insisted Moscow stick to a September's Minsk agreement.
"To have a new deal, not to execute the previous one, seems to me a trap," Yatsenyuk told journalists. "We urge Russia to implement and execute what was agreed, signed personally by president Putin." In Brussels, NATO agreed a major boost to the alliance's defences near its Russian borders, including six command centres and a quick-reaction spearhead force of 5,000 troops.
The fighting in Ukraine has claimed more than 5,350 lives since April, including some 220 in just the past three weeks, according to the United Nations.
Renewed attempts at peace talks in the Belarussian capital Minsk over the weekend collapsed after rebel leaders stayed away.
NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said that the move to boost troops in eastern Europe was in response to Moscow's "aggressive actions," but nevertheless purely defensive.
In a move that is likely to irk Moscow, NATO announced six "command and control" units in eastern European nations to ensure that the new force could hit the ground running.
- Civilian deaths rise - In the rebel bastion of Donetsk, shelling killed eight civilians and wounded 33 more over the previous 24 hours, the insurgent-controlled city hall said. Kiev-loyal authorities said six civilians had been killed around Donetsk, and military spokesman Vladyslav Seleznyov said that heavy shelling killed five Ukrainian soldiers and wounded 29 around the region.
Another two civilians died in the battleground railway hub of Debaltseve, which rebels are trying to encircle and capture, Kiev officials said.

 

[Lumiere_du_Code]

Poroshenko signed a law raising the age of recruitment to 27 years (and it was till 25) and reducing the number of grounds for postponement.

http://russian.rt.com/article/72713

epic win... Here everything happens as a blueprint of Germany 30s.
Now whether every man wants this or not, he must be a soldier and to die for Kiev psychopaths and oligarchs.
and they screaming about genocide of Ukrainian people by Russia!

 

[SeekinTruth]

Every time the Kiev junta are getting their butts kicked, they want a cease fire to save whatever military operation capabilities they have left. And then they start immediately violating the cease fire terms and killing, maiming, and terrorizing the civilian population in Donbass. The suffering of the civilians is horrible, but I think the NAF should finish off the Ukrainian military, to stop the violence. They've been through this over and over, and it's always the same lies and resuming the violence.

Meanwhile the hrivna (Ukrainian currency) collapsed about 50% in a manner of hours. If the pressure is kept up on Kiev, they're totally in a desperate situation, it would increase the chances of getting some lasting peace. The chances of another false flag atrocity blamed on the NAF is REALLY high now, though.