Controversial Instagram Account About Pathology

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Yes, I was just composing this post about those because I was reminded of the works and exhibitions of 'plastinator' Gunther von Hagens and his touring exhibition entitled Body Worlds. This is his website: http://www.bodyworlds.com/en.html

The following link gives an overview of what is exhibited (not for the faint hearted):

https://www.google.nl/search?q=dead+body+parts+exhibition&gbv=1&hl=nl&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=wsVcVevtNcWksAH-oIC4AQ&ved=0CB0QsAQ&tbm=isch

News article with ample photographs: http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-ideas/dr-death-opens-bodyworlds-museum-in-berlin/story-fnjpja3r-1227225056847

There has been an American copy of sorts as well: Bodies: The Exhibition and here is their website: http://www.premierexhibitions.com/exhibitions/4/4/bodies-exhibition also with a gallery of exhibits.
 
Palinurus said:
Yes, I was just composing this post about those because I was reminded of the works and exhibitions of 'plastinator' Gunther von Hagens and his touring exhibition entitled Body Worlds. This is his website: http://www.bodyworlds.com/en.html

The following link gives an overview of what is exhibited (not for the faint hearted):

https://www.google.nl/search?q=dead+body+parts+exhibition&gbv=1&hl=nl&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=wsVcVevtNcWksAH-oIC4AQ&ved=0CB0QsAQ&tbm=isch

News article with ample photographs: http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-ideas/dr-death-opens-bodyworlds-museum-in-berlin/story-fnjpja3r-1227225056847

There has been an American copy of sorts as well: Bodies: The Exhibition and here is their website: http://www.premierexhibitions.com/exhibitions/4/4/bodies-exhibition also with a gallery of exhibits.

Palinurus thank you very much for expanding the info on expo with more links :) .. I like when we work in synchronicity to learn more about our world ... :thup:
 
Palinurus said:
Yes, I was just composing this post about those because I was reminded of the works and exhibitions of 'plastinator' Gunther von Hagens and his touring exhibition entitled Body Worlds. This is his website: http://www.bodyworlds.com/en.html

I don't see any point to claiming that you are creating "art" in this way and exhibiting it as art. It's one thing to utilize the real thing as a teaching tool, quite another to glorify it as "art".
 
obyvatel said:
If you have not done so, I would suggest that you spend some time reading the cognitive science section of the forum - specially the threads on Timothy Wilson's "Strangers to Ourselves" and Kahneman's "Thinking:Fast and Slow". It could help in understanding how we tend to "think".

Obyvatel thank you for sugesiton, I do read some from "Thinking:Fast and Slow", but I'll check it out. :lkj:
 
Laura said:
Tracy Anne said:
Of course I know you dont live in NZ and I know you are not of Maori desent, Laura. No need for the sarcasm.

I wasn't being sarcastic, but you are, I think.

Tracy Anne, Solarmind
Ya know, I've spent years working on getting over my own cultural biases and trying to get an objective view on this world that could be considered to be valid for everyone - assuming they could get over their cultural biases/buffers/programs. That is sort of what this forum is about. You know, reading and understanding and assimilating things like Gurdjieff, Cs, Castaneda, Wilson, Stout, Kahnemann, and more...

I notice that it can't be SO cultural because a member of one of your touted cultures has the opposite view...

So, if ya'll are going to drag cultural biases in here as the "last word" and where you wish to stand, I would think that maybe this isn't the right place for you?

I like this Fourm very much Laura and your work and research has benefited myself and others in my life. Now I need to study about different cultures living together.

I am familiar with Gurdjieff's work though I am an experiential learner so just reading about it is only a small part of learning it for me.

Thanks for feedback. Sorry this has gone a bit off topic with respect to solamind and others who have contributed.
 
[quote author=Tracy Anne]
We may never know what her motives are. Is it right that we make our own judgement of the situation? Or just see it for what it is and not let our emotional horse run away on us?
[/quote]

Hi Tracy Anne,
I would say yes to the latter, if you are interested in getting free from various programs and conditioning that we have acquired over the years.

I do not belong to the American culture and many things done in that culture appear strange to me. The same is obviously true about "my" culture and how it is viewed by others. My goal is to develop conscience and for that, I have found culturally conditioned morality to be a hindrance than help most of the time. That does not mean losing sensitivity to how others embedded in the culture might feel - that becomes an issue of external consideration. And getting free from the baggage of cultural conditioning may actually help with understanding others and giving each situation it's due.


[quote author=solarmind]
We are seeing every day how people on internet are traynig to become famous by doing the most craziest things. To come up with this idea to do it for promotion, and as well as to get some extra money from the network for the number of followers, it is quite familiar and for me it was the first opinion after I watchedthe fancy video, and now when I realize that on Instagram we have nothing more scientific apart from stylish photos, I am even more convinced that she is abusing all this for her own material and egoistic goal.
[/quote]

Getting all riled up about self-promotion on the Internet is a little hypocritical in this age and time IMO. Can anyone who uses social media regularly claim that they have "never" indulged in self- promotion?
 
obyvatel said:
She works there, and if she will not work there it is a question what her interest will be. She odn't have ot do any extra effort to take stuff, brnig home, make a fancy set, and voila.

Not sure what you mean here.

ot have interest in body parts don't represent one as a human scientist who want to do a good things for the world,

I think you're reading too much into it.

and yes I agree it is interesting how we tend to judge without reading what is posted ...

We are seeing every day how people on internet are traynig to become famous by doing the most craziest things. To come up with this idea to do it for promotion, and as well as to get some extra money from the network for the number of followers, it is quite familiar and for me it was the first opinion after I watchedthe fancy video, and now when I realize that on Instagram we have nothing more scientific apart from stylish photos, I am even more convinced that she is abusing all this for her own material and egoistic goal.

More reading too much into it. There simply isn't enough data here to come to these conclusions, to know that her motivations are material and egoistic, other than your subjective response to something that isn't agreeable to you. That's the definition of subjectivity, but here on this forum we try to be aware of own subjectivity, in the hope of becoming a bit more objective.
 
obyvatel said:
Getting all riled up about self-promotion on the Internet is a little hypocritical in this age and time IMO. Can anyone who uses social media regularly claim that they have "never" indulged in self- promotion?

Well I didn't get all riled up for self promotion. How did you get that impression?

But in general it is not something that is just a thing we project or assumed. Among youngsters we can see that tendency rising and they even get a name for it "Millennial". And this girl with instagram colleciton of organs just remind me on that ...

_http://time.com/247/millennials-the-me-me-me-generation/
 
solarmind said:
But any way, I am still not sure that she is doing that for anything more than self promotion, and she is quite successful in doing that, as Michale BC you trust to all what she said. Well Obama said many fantastic things, but still ;) ...

This is a bit disingenuous. We know Obama lies, we can prove it. There is no reason to believe that this woman is lying. What she does is something that shocks most people, which I think is the source of your problem with her, you were shocked by the images and that energy is being used to create a narrative about the woman.

All the images that she posts are already available somewhere on the internet. If she makes those images of the human body and how fragile and material it is, popular with those who are interested in such images and exposing themselves to the very material nature of the human body, then I think she is entitled to do so. Those who don't want to view such images or expose themselves to those concepts, should simply not view them. Either way, there is no just cause for any demonisation of this woman.

The point is Solar Mind, those images shocked you, but instead of dealing with that shock and what it means to you, you diverted that process into trying to demonize the woman.
 
Approaching Infinity said:
More reading too much into it. There simply isn't enough data here to come to these conclusions, to know that her motivations are material and egoistic, other than your subjective response to something that isn't agreeable to you. That's the definition of subjectivity, but here on this forum we try to be aware of own subjectivity, in the hope of becoming a bit more objective.

Thank you for helping, yes it is right that I am reading my experiences and knowledge to it. It is right that I am subjective, and the reason why I post this was to question that. If it is not that controversial for others, than I have to questing my subjectivity. And so far this is helping a lot.

But, apart from analysis of what and how I see her, and this interesting observation of different ways of seeing and thinking and reacting, I still didn't get any other objective reason why this what she is doing is not self promotion and abuse? OR maybe I can't see it because of my subjectivity?

Is it enough just to believe what she said? How we can see the hidden truth behind the "nice" image and talk? And opposite, how we can stop projecting negative experiences and thoughts on person or happening, if they are not intended to be negative by the objective context presented?
 
solarmind said:
SAO thank you for such a explanatory point of view. But did you watched the video?
No problem, and I have!

solarmind said:
I still disagree and feel more like Tracy Ane, that we don't have any right to use any part of any person without respect to it, let's call it that way.
And I respect your and Tracy's opinions. I do see how some people would be uncomfortable having their pathologies displayed, even with full privacy as to their identity, to the world for any reason. So of course preferably she would have permission. It looks like she's working with dead people's pathologies a lot - so the permission would have to come from family there. I don't think what she's doing, even without explicit permission, is really so bad, but I also understand that some wouldn't feel comfortable with it.

In things like this I try to put myself in the place of the patient or their family. My dad had a liver transplant a few years ago, and my mom went through breast cancer. How would I feel, or how would they feel, to have pictures of the organs/pathologies on the internet? My first reaction, is that this is personal and private so I wouldn't like that. But then I question where that discomfort is coming from, and if I'm honest with myself, I don't really have any good reason for it. It doesn't hurt me or anyone, it doesn't threaten me, it's not for the purposes of some perversion or simply humor, etc. So if anything, it seems like it would be my insecurity, or some fear of being judged or made fun of, and I identify with the pathology/organs as "part of me" so it's almost like it's me personally who is "on display". But it's not, at least not any part of me that matters to me. So personally I'd be fine with it after having worked through it in my mind, and realizing my initial discomfort is unwarranted.
solarmind said:
Many here commented when you don't see a face it is not violating privacy .. um well, what about blind people, they can't see anything so we can show their face right?
Others could still recognize them so nope.

solarmind said:
This is very interesting discussion indeed, as apart form having feeling of getting lecture about she is okay and doing "scientific" research, I still didn't gent any prove for that, apart form long exp lanaiton how I might be wrong in not seeing how actually she is doing great stuff?
Speaking for myself, I just meant that her job is important, and valuable to others. The pictures are not part of that job, but they have value to others too.

solarmind said:
.. This is very confusing, as I don't relay want to have a wrong opinion that something is abused for self promotion, while obviously there so many of you who think it is profound scientific work, but as I said I still can't see that form your comments. Can you help a bit more with some examples from her stuff that will by your opinion be representative of what you trying to say to me?
It doesn't seem like it's just for self promotion, tho she does gain popularity from what she does. At face value it seems like she just wants to show the world what is often not shown, and sometimes point out some interesting/peculiar aspects of it just because it may be interesting for others.

solarmind said:
ps. As about abduciotns we can say that it was not kidnaping, but it was more like out of ignorance of the person who gave permition, by not knownig what will happen. Ushualy as much as I know, that happend to those who ask for some kind of outerwordly expirience. Ushualy we see dualisitc interpreatiton of that, some are so happy that thya have been abduceted some are horrified. But many people still beleive that they are comeing to make a better world for us. So that is kind of a big misunderstandnig going on there.
Thanks for that, I now understand better how you related it to abductions. I still think that there is a difference between abducting someone (with or without their permission), and displaying an organ (with or without permission). One violates free will, the other doesn't. It's a polite thing to do to ask permission, but it's not a violation of their privacy, free will, security, or anything else if you don't. It may make them uncomfortable, but there is no actual harm. Not all discomfort is justified. People sometimes get uncomfortable when someone questions their beliefs, or black people get the right to vote, or they smell cigarette smoke - but not all discomfort should be honored, and the devil is in the details.
 
Perceval said:
The point is Solar Mind, those images shocked you, but instead of dealing with that shock and what it means to you, you diverted that process into trying to demonize the woman.

And what I bolded is something what I don't want to do.
So in general suggestion will be to work on the principle - if we can't prove it, than we can't project it?
Ok that needs a lot of work to deprogram that ... and I am willing to play on it, as that is what I feel on every day basis a big obstacle to look at the world around.

But than, we also have to have ability to read between the lines? Or maybe that gets sharpened when we get rid of the projecting and programming stuff that we have by many reasons.?

thank you.
 
solarmind said:
Comparing for example this autoimmune protocol that Laura is doing right now, with this, I found it just incomparable for me, in the terms of using your knowledge, ability and strength to get out of the box, take a risk and bring new knowledge in the field of medicine. what Laura is doing is extraordinary, and will be helpfull to many. But so far we can't see any photo of your pain suffering dizziness etc ;) ... and you are not putting that on instagram blog or youtube for all out there to see it.

Unfavorably comparing what the pathologists assistant is doing to what Laura or anyone else on this forum is doing is not a very good argument. It's like comparing apples and oranges (as they say).
 
solarmind said:
obyvatel said:
Getting all riled up about self-promotion on the Internet is a little hypocritical in this age and time IMO. Can anyone who uses social media regularly claim that they have "never" indulged in self- promotion?

Well I didn't get all riled up for self promotion. How did you get that impression?

You answer your question above with what what you write soon after...

solarmind said:
But in general it is not something that is just a thing we project or assumed. Among youngsters we can see that tendency rising and they even get a name for it "Millennial". And this girl with instagram colleciton of organs just remind me on that ...

_http://time.com/247/millennials-the-me-me-me-generation/

...by affirming the impression you had of this person's work as self promotion. This view underlies what you've written previously and can be 'read' between the lines. But you don't fully realize that this is what you are in fact doing because you are not taking the time to think about what you are saying, or considering the thoughts that are informing your thinking to the extent that you think you are doing. That is the impression you are giving anyway, and the reason why the books mentioned to you are so important.

solarmind said:
How we can see the hidden truth behind the "nice" image and talk? And opposite, how we can stop projecting negative experiences and thoughts on person or happening, if they are not intended to be negative by the objective context presented?

That's where work is involved because every situation is different. But getting on the right track by asking such questions while you try to suss out the relative truth of a matter is a good place to begin. When you start reading the books and perhaps explore some of the cognitive sciences threads, you'll see further how faulty our thinking can be in ways you simply haven't imagined previously.
 
Tracy Anne said:
Some cultures would see this as extremely offensive, for instance the native Maori people of New Zealand consider a dead body to be 'Tapu' (sacred). Sure they have to accept that autopsies are done on the deceased but to take this one step futher and display the organs of their beloved one on a public website would be very insulting and disrespectful.

Maybe this has to be taken in context of different cultures. I myself find it disturbing to have this on a public arena, especially if permission has not been given.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Let's try and keep the discussion specific. No one is being insulted or disrespected in this case because the identities of the former owners of the bodies is never discernible or revealed.
 
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