Controversial Instagram Account About Pathology

[Deleted member 11729]

Solarmind this kinda sums it up from a Maori perspective. Even though this is relating to organ transplant the principles are similar.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_donation

The indigenous population of New Zealand also have strong views regarding organ donation.. Many Maori people believe organ donation is morally unacceptable due to the cultural need for a dead body to remain fully intact.[54] However, because there is not a universally recognised cultural authority, no one view on organ donation is universally accepted in the Maori population.[54] They are, however, less likely to accept a kidney transplant than other New Zealanders, despite being overrepresented in the population receiving dialysis.

thank you for the link. I some how can agree with this view of Maori, maybe I have some relation to them ;) ... When I was at New Zealand few years ago, we have been very nicely greeted by some Maori art schools and comunities, and I do liked their way of looking at things ... till I visited them I always thought about tatoo as a kind of selfreflective show up, but after been on their ceremonial tatoo sessions, I totally get another picture of that, as from many other things.

And also this whole question about cultural differences, I can feel in this conversation a very American approach that is starting from the point - America is the world, and all other is compared to America, if that fist ok, if not we will show you how to fit it. Actually we can't do that, as we have to respect others, and even though we think it is all about Maori way of looking at dead body and transplanting and abducting is not scientifically right, it is not harmfull to others. So we still don't have right to change it, or use it on a way that we think is appropriate, while we operating with their resources ... as maybe our way is not the right one at all.

 

[liffy]

This is very interesting discussion indeed, as apart form having feeling of getting lecture about she is okay and doing "scientific" research, I still didn't gent any prove for that, apart form long exp lanaiton how I might be wrong in not seeing how actually she is doing great stuff? .. This is very confusing, as I don't relay want to have a wrong opinion that something is abused for self promotion, while obviously there so many of you who think it is profound scientific work, but as I said I still can't see that form your comments. Can you help a bit more with some examples from her stuff that will by your opinion be representative of what you trying to say to me?

I think the images by themselves are what makes it interesting/valuable, not necessarily what's written together with the photos. She might not write pages upon pages about different diseases, because she is no doctor, and Instagram is no scientific journal, it's primarily a visual medium.

She shows the human body and different diseases from angles most of us haven't seen before, that some of us might find enlightening and interesting.

And really, if you believe she has no genuine interest in the human body and showing what it does, but simply is trying to become famous and show herself off, then I think she has picked a really weird way of doing it. It's not like most people will even remember her name, they will remember what her account shows.

 

[Laura]

Well this is according to your cultural beliefs SAO. Of which I respect but what if others wishes have been violated?

I think the key point here is weather permission was given by the deceased (to leave body for research) or in the case of a sudden death, the family's permission is sort. I would like to think that that is happening but in reality it probably isnt. I wonder if anyone could find out what this woman's protocol is for procuring body parts? (!)

Permission is generally given for bodies to be handed over for research. And notice that she says that she blurs out anything that might be identifiable.

We don't live in NZ and we aren't Maoris here. If it offends you, don't watch it, but don't judge the woman by YOUR beliefs. Beliefs that interfere in objective assessment of reality aren't helpful, by the way.

 

[Laura]

And really, if you believe she has no genuine interest in the human body and showing what it does, but simply is trying to become famous and show herself off, then I think she has picked a really weird way of doing it. It's not like most people will even remember her name, they will remember what her account shows.

Indeed. Interesting how we tend to project our own inner reality onto others.

 

[Tracy Anne]

Solarmind this kinda sums it up from a Maori perspective. Even though this is relating to organ transplant the principles are similar.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_donation

The indigenous population of New Zealand also have strong views regarding organ donation.. Many Maori people believe organ donation is morally unacceptable due to the cultural need for a dead body to remain fully intact.[54] However, because there is not a universally recognised cultural authority, no one view on organ donation is universally accepted in the Maori population.[54] They are, however, less likely to accept a kidney transplant than other New Zealanders, despite being overrepresented in the population receiving dialysis.

thank you for the link. I some how can agree with this view of Maori, maybe I have some relation to them ;) ... When I was at New Zealand few years ago, we have been very nicely greeted by some Maori art schools and comunities, and I do liked their way of looking at things ... till I visited them I always thought about tatoo as a kind of selfreflective show up, but after been on their ceremonial tatoo sessions, I totally get another picture of that, as from many other things.

And also this whole question about cultural differences, I can feel in this conversation a very American approach that is starting from the point - America is the world, and all other is compared to America, if that fist ok, if not we will show you how to fit it. Actually we can't do that, as we have to respect others, and even though we think it is all about Maori way of looking at dead body and transplanting and abducting is not scientifically right, it is not harmfull to others. So we still don't have right to change it, or use it on a way that we think is appropriate, while we operating with their resources ... as maybe our way is not the right one at all.

I like the way you think solarmind. There are many different cultural attitudes to death/dying/body parts and I would like to thank you for posting the initial story.

 

[Tracy Anne]

Well this is according to your cultural beliefs SAO. Of which I respect but what if others wishes have been violated?

I think the key point here is weather permission was given by the deceased (to leave body for research) or in the case of a sudden death, the family's permission is sort. I would like to think that that is happening but in reality it probably isnt. I wonder if anyone could find out what this woman's protocol is for procuring body parts? (!)

Permission is generally given for bodies to be handed over for research. And notice that she says that she blurs out anything that might be identifiable.

We don't live in NZ and we aren't Maoris here. If it offends you, don't watch it, but don't judge the woman by YOUR beliefs. Beliefs that interfere in objective assessment of reality aren't helpful, by the way.

Of course I know you dont live in NZ and I know you are not of Maori desent, Laura. No need for the sarcasm.

 

[Laura]

I like the way you think solarmind. There are many different cultural attitudes to death/dying/body parts and I would like to thank you for posting the initial story.

And cultural attitudes, properly cultivated, give rise to hatred and wars.

 

[Laura]

Of course I know you dont live in NZ and I know you are not of Maori desent, Laura. No need for the sarcasm.

I wasn't being sarcastic, but you are, I think.

Tracy Anne, Solarmind
Ya know, I've spent years working on getting over my own cultural biases and trying to get an objective view on this world that could be considered to be valid for everyone - assuming they could get over their cultural biases/buffers/programs. That is sort of what this forum is about. You know, reading and understanding and assimilating things like Gurdjieff, Cs, Castaneda, Wilson, Stout, Kahnemann, and more...

I notice that it can't be SO cultural because a member of one of your touted cultures has the opposite view...

So, if ya'll are going to drag cultural biases in here as the "last word" and where you wish to stand, I would think that maybe this isn't the right place for you?

 

[Tracy Anne]

I like the way you think solarmind. There are many different cultural attitudes to death/dying/body parts and I would like to thank you for posting the initial story.

And cultural attitudes, properly cultivated, give rise to hatred and wars.

Cultural differences can divide people.....or unite people.

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

I can feel in this conversation a very American approach that is starting from the point - America is the world, and all other is compared to America, if that fist ok, if not we will show you how to fit it.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that, Solarmind. Can you explain a little bit?

 

[Deleted member 11729]

And really, if you believe she has no genuine interest in the human body and showing what it does, but simply is trying to become famous and show herself off, then I think she has picked a really weird way of doing it. It's not like most people will even remember her name, they will remember what her account shows.

Indeed. Interesting how we tend to project our own inner reality onto others.

She works there, and if she will not work there it is a question what her interest will be. She odn't have ot do any extra effort to take stuff, brnig home, make a fancy set, and voila. But any way I don't know who said that she don't have interest in body parts ... ;) .. ot have interest in body parts don't represent one as a human scientist who want to do a good things for the world, and yes I agree it is interesting how we tend to judge without reading what is posted ...

We are seeing every day how people on internet are traynig to become famous by doing the most craziest things. To come up with this idea to do it for promotion, and as well as to get some extra money from the network for the number of followers, it is quite familiar and for me it was the first opinion after I watchedthe fancy video, and now when I realize that on Instagram we have nothing more scientific apart from stylish photos, I am even more convinced that she is abusing all this for her own material and egoistic goal.

 

[Deleted member 11729]

I can feel in this conversation a very American approach that is starting from the point - America is the world, and all other is compared to America, if that fist ok, if not we will show you how to fit it.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by that, Solarmind. Can you explain a little bit?

I see that just few of the commentators look at the video that was a starting point for discussion. So we get off the topic many times, but okay. What I learned from this forum, actually is don't jump on things before you read all what is written, and before you really know what you want to say or ask. So I am kind of surprised that this conversation is drifting towards many "lectures" just because I don't agree with every word that is written here.

What I wanted to say with this is the same thing that is said many times at SOTT, and what is trying to open up the eyes of Americans about their programming through the goverment and media, how they saying that "American" politics are projectingtheir own vision to the world, and for those who are not fitting into it they will set up a war, if it is needed to fit them into the American machine ...

As about cultural differences, yep it can be a reason for war, but it is primarily a reason for the beauty of life on earth. So We don't have to agree about everything, if I understand right it is not about that, it is about to sharpen up our human sense to understand better the world around us, even if we disagree completely this conversation helping me to see the differences and reasons for that, in order to not get angry as no one is agreeing with me, but more to get more understanding and peaceful in ability to accept different point of view.

 

[Tracy Anne]

And really, if you believe she has no genuine interest in the human body and showing what it does, but simply is trying to become famous and show herself off, then I think she has picked a really weird way of doing it. It's not like most people will even remember her name, they will remember what her account shows.

Indeed. Interesting how we tend to project our own inner reality onto others.

She works there, and if she will not work there it is a question what her interest will be. She odn't have ot do any extra effort to take stuff, brnig home, make a fancy set, and voila. But any way I don't know who said that she don't have interest in body parts ... ;) .. ot have interest in body parts don't represent one as a human scientist who want to do a good things for the world, and yes I agree it is interesting how we tend to judge without reading what is posted ...

We are seeing every day how people on internet are traynig to become famous by doing the most craziest things. To come up with this idea to do it for promotion, and as well as to get some extra money from the network for the number of followers, it is quite familiar and for me it was the first opinion after I watchedthe fancy video, and now when I realize that on Instagram we have nothing more scientific apart from stylish photos, I am even more convinced that she is abusing all this for her own material and egoistic goal.

We may never know what her motives are. Is it right that we make our own judgement of the situation? Or just see it for what it is and not let our emotional horse run away on us?

 

[Deleted member 11729]

But okay lets get back to the topic. I think most of you will know about this famous art expo on human bodies that was touring the whole world. SO it get controversial because one human right activist found out that bodies used in expo are actually form executed Chinese prisoners or victims of torture.

"The bodies of executed Chinese prisoners are being used in a ghoulish exhibition of ‘plastinated’ corpses, it was claimed last night. Human rights activist Dr David Nicholl is demanding the Human Tissue Authority – which granted a licence for the Bodies Revealed show in Birmingham – should shut it down because it is a ‘crime scene’.
The controversial event is organised by US-based Premier Exhibitions, which insists all the cadavers came from individuals who chose to donate their bodies to medical science. But Dr Nicholl, a consultant at Birmingham City Hospital, says he is convinced the body parts – preserved in polymer – come from executed Chinese prisoners or victims of torture."

here is the full article

_http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1241931/Bodies-Revealed-exhibition-accused-putting-executed-Chinese-prisoners-show.html

I also found that expo quite disturbing, and for me it was a sing that our culture is spiraling towards entropy and non human treatment of humans on earth.

 

[obyvatel]

[quote author=Solarmind]
But it is obviously interesting topic ... I didn't expect that. I just thought I would like to see if maybe someone has different opinion, to reflect, as I didn't want to be overwhelmed with my possible overreacting, and I just get rush of all that school memories that get back to me.
[/quote]

I think the bolded portion above may be closer to reality. The rest of your reactions could be narratives driven by that initial shock. From your description, the shock that you felt initially appears to be of an aesthetic nature. But that got covered up quickly by moral narratives about alleged self promotion, alleged lack of respect about privacy and the likes, all of which in this specific context, appears to me as an example of "straining at gnats".

If you have not done so, I would suggest that you spend some time reading the cognitive science section of the forum - specially the threads on Timothy Wilson's "Strangers to Ourselves" and Kahneman's "Thinking:Fast and Slow". It could help in understanding how we tend to "think".