Coronavirus Pandemic: Apocalypse Now! Or exaggerated scare story?

guimondaniel said:
I wasn't going to write this because it scares me more than anything but since I see that my fears are shared: Remember the whole Greenbaum can of worms, with millions programmed to go off apparently at one time? Well wouldn't this be the perfect time to set them off? Stephen King style!

ALSO: I was wondering if the virus does not SIMPLY EXACERBATE what-who we are, angry will become dangerous, cool will stay cool! Although, talking with my partner, I personally have had bouts of rage throughout the flu, which by the way just dosen't stop giving. There are still effects from it.
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@guimondaniel you might be on to something here...
 
biuta said:
Hi @luc , I was thinking about this along the same lines the other day and I tried to find some information on the Italian National Statistics site and the information about death rates from influenza look interesting for Lombardia:

I would add one more question for @Donjuan (thank you for the post by the way):
* When it comes to the hospitals being overwhelmed, is it possible that we are looking strictly at some hospitals that were designated as special hospitals that deal with infectious diseases, while in other hospitals there is no overload, or is it truly a generalized problem, where ALL hospitals are overwhelmed?

I am asking this question as a couple of people mentioned empty hospitals in this thread already, then I noticed an article in the Canadian MSM that seems to try to adress this concern, probably others noticed it too: Why the emergency departments look empty amid a viral outbreak.
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In Italy the most severe and young cases of all pathology (also infective) are concentrated in big/large hospital which drain that area.
My report are of a large hospital in an area where the spreading is high (lower than Brescia/bergamo fortunately). The 2 small hospital of the area are in the same situation (less total number but same % of resource allocated for covid).

In other area of Italy (like Rome or south Italy) the number are very low and the situation is more in control (except for the hysteria which is high everywhere). So not in every hospital of Italy there is overload but only were the spreading is high (in northern Italy the situation is overloaded everywhere with different degree).
One month ago i was telling the same words i have read in other posts and i didn believe this virus could be a problem and that the government were exagerating..

Referring to mortality numbers and rate they are not so high in absolute terms (due to the fact that most of testing was done on people accessing ER/hospetalized which had moderate/severe symptoms).
The biggest problem is the total number of contemporary cases (a part of that has severe symptoms) in a time frame of 2-3 weeks that created the real problem. And this is a real problem because the health system resources are consumed for managing the virus you cannot cure the other patology.. We sospeneded all surgery except emergency at the moment..
 
Donjuan said:
In Italy the most severe and young cases of all pathology (also infective) are concentrated in big/large hospital which drain that area.
My report are of a large hospital in an area where the spreading is high (lower than Brescia/bergamo fortunately). The 2 small hospital of the area are in the same situation (less total number but same % of resource allocated for covid).

In other area of Italy (like Rome or south Italy) the number are very low and the situation is more in control (except for the hysteria which is high everywhere). So not in every hospital of Italy there is overload but only were the spreading is high (in northern Italy the situation is overloaded everywhere with different degree).
One month ago i was telling the same words i have read in other posts and i didn believe this virus could be a problem and that the government were exagerating..

Referring to mortality numbers and rate they are not so high in absolute terms (due to the fact that most of testing was done on people accessing ER/hospetalized which had moderate/severe symptoms).
The biggest problem is the total number of contemporary cases (a part of that has severe symptoms) in a time frame of 2-3 weeks that created the real problem. And this is a real problem because the health system resources are consumed for managing the virus you cannot cure the other patology.. We sospeneded all surgery except emergency at the moment..
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Thank you for your reply @Donjuan, this information is very interesting and useful in understanding what is actually happening.
 
Check out the following BS:

Contrary to what one might think, several emergency room doctors report relatively quiet ERs these days -- likely due to the fact people have curtailed routine visits that can be addressed by virtual or in-person consults with their family doctor, and the fact widespread isolation has cut opportunities for sports injuries, traffic accidents and other common ER traumas.
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www.ctvnews.ca

Why the emergency departments look empty amid a viral outbreak

Several emergency room doctors report relatively quiet ERs these days -- likely due to the fact people have curtailed routine visits that can be addressed by virtual or in-person consults with their family doctor, and the fact widespread isolation has cut opportunities for sports injuries...
www.ctvnews.ca www.ctvnews.ca

It's not that "people have curtailed routine visits", it's that they've been told to stay away, appointments cancelled, etc.
 
"Rush hour" on Friday morning in a college town....
(blurry because I have a crappy phone but you get the idea)
One can see multiple traffic lights ahead and very few vehicles...the scenes are surreal.

20200327_072824.jpg

I must admit that I am impressed (not in agreement with or overly supportive of) by the level of control that has been exercised on a global scale with an absolute minimum of force. Something that I'm noting/speculating to myself, emotional exploitation is OBVIOUSLY a very powerful tool. Do you think the fear of death, pain, and suffering are being played here? I sure do but then again I think the "advertising industry" has known about these techniques for a very long time.
Needless to say the traffic lights are pretty much a moot point.......Their going to have people BEGGING for a totalitarian planet.
A question that came to my mind as a result of meditation this morning...Do the Lizards need the planet to be warm?​
 
guimondaniel said:
I wasn't going to write this because it scares me more than anything but since I see that my fears are shared: Remember the whole Greenbaum can of worms, with millions programmed to go off apparently at one time? Well wouldn't this be the perfect time to set them off? Stephen King style!
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Particularly I was thinking about all the people who share in the web their point of wiev about what they see when they are connecting dots - I think they are the precious target for PTB to maybe punish them in some way for their misbehavior(aka seeing and spreading the truth)? And then there are next, those who were watching/reading/participating in their projects and "may know something". It could be scenario for netflix some day ;) or already was.
To be honest I try to get rid of this kind of 'revelations' from my head simply by stating that "okay, your imagination goes too far with this" but with moderate effects sometimes and to be honest once again I simply do not know what to do with this kind of images. I'm glad that I could share it by now.
 
Donjuan said:
In Italy the most severe and young cases of all pathology (also infective) are concentrated in big/large hospital which drain that area.
My report are of a large hospital in an area where the spreading is high (lower than Brescia/bergamo fortunately). The 2 small hospital of the area are in the same situation (less total number but same % of resource allocated for covid).

In other area of Italy (like Rome or south Italy) the number are very low and the situation is more in control (except for the hysteria which is high everywhere). So not in every hospital of Italy there is overload but only were the spreading is high (in northern Italy the situation is overloaded everywhere with different degree).
One month ago i was telling the same words i have read in other posts and i didn believe this virus could be a problem and that the government were exagerating..

Referring to mortality numbers and rate they are not so high in absolute terms (due to the fact that most of testing was done on people accessing ER/hospetalized which had moderate/severe symptoms).
The biggest problem is the total number of contemporary cases (a part of that has severe symptoms) in a time frame of 2-3 weeks that created the real problem. And this is a real problem because the health system resources are consumed for managing the virus you cannot cure the other patology.. We sospeneded all surgery except emergency at the moment..
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My parents and my sister live in Tuscany region (north/centre Italy) and they told me that there is no overload il hospitals in that area, only many people waiting in line in front of pharmacies...
 
When Joe posted this Simpsons video on FB, I was laughing how they managed to capture the insanity and I reposted the clip with saying: "If the Chinese bat doesn't do the job, your pet cat will!".


I didn't mean to predict at all but now I am thinking they might be going to take away pets from the population at risk (e.g. older people). That would be another kill-move, especially when these people often have animals as their only joy in life:

Belgium Confirms Case of COVID-19 Transmission From Human to Cat – National Centre

BRUSSELS (Sputnik) - Laboratory staff in Belgium have confirmed a case of COVID-19 transmission from human to animal, after a man who contracted the disease also infected his pet cat, a representative of the country's coronavirus reference laboratory confirmed on Friday.

“Our colleagues from the veterinary faculty in Liege found that a cat contracted COVID-19 after the infection was transmitted by its owner. The infection has been confirmed and symptoms are present,” Emmanuel Andre, a member of the reference laboratory based in the city of Leuven, said at a press conference.

Andre emphasized that this was an individual case and may not be a common occurrence.

Nevertheless, Belgian officials are working to develop preventive measures for pet owners, particularly those who test positive for COVID-19, Andre stated.
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luc said:
Hi Donjuan,
Thank you for your reports. I think nobody is saying the virus isn't real or doesn't cause illness. And it may be true that something is going on in some regions in Italy that is abnormal. But we all need to keep a cool head here, especially perhaps people like you who are in the front lines of this. This means looking at the SEASONAL and NATIONAL flu statistics and see whether the additional numbers of Covid cases are even noticable in the stats.

Any other day, the problems you are referring to would be an interesting anomaly that local doctors and authorities should look into. But they probably wouldn't even make it into your national media, much less CNN! Most importantly, the questions is whether this warrants economic, social and political suicide of the whole world!

This whole thing is a hoax not in the sense that there is no virus, but in the sense that we don't have anything resembling a pandemic, much less a global one!

Besides, the questions Gaby raised still stand, such as:

* What does "COVID suspect" mean? Were they tested? If so, only for COVID or for other viruses or bacterial infections as well? And is ER access in any way privileged to "suspected COVID cases"?

* Are these extra beds you refer to full? If so, with tested Covid patients? Do they have symptoms BECAUSE covid or WITH covid? Are they tested for other things as well? Have they other illnesses? How grave are the symptoms - and would they be hospitalized without the corona panic?

* Are these cases of young covid patients tested? What are the symptoms? Do they die or recover? Would they be hospitalized without the panic?

* As you say, there may be a massive number of infected we don't know about, which means the mortality rate is extremely low, no? Which makes the whole problem a non-problem, with the possible exception of a few local hospitals being stressed out because some extra cases?

* Assuming that it is true that there were 600 deaths in Italy in one day, was this an anomaly? Or was it lots of deaths every day? How do these numbers register in the seasonal national stats compared with an average flu season?
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Actually COVID suspect is everyone with fever/dyspnbea, cough with a known contact of a tested +. At this time the flu season is ended.

We test con rhinophanringeal swap (PCR) which have a false negative rate of 28%. False positive are instead near zero.
In some patient we tested also for classic flu virus and EBV/CMV virus (always negative in covid +).

We saw patient with pneumonia interstitial (a uncommun findings) with particular characteristics (defined in chinese guidelines) in symptomatic case (moderate/severe and critical) but also on asymptomatical people (found doing CT thorax for other reasons). This was NEVER HAPPENED before.
We have also a few patients with clinically covid pneumoniae and negative testing to complicate further..

We admit in hospital only people with severe cases and which need oxygen. There are also mild cases (1/3 of total) due to management problem (people who cannot go home for personal o clinical reason because thay have to be isolated).

The total number of death could be not very high ( i dont have the number of death of last year) but the problem is that these deaths are concentrated in small areas - where the spreading was highest - and in a narrow time frame. In many towns of Bergamo area it was impossibile to handle the high number of death /day (crematorium full and was necessary to deliver the corpse in other area also near my city. This was never happened for other pathology before. It is possibile that a part of the elderly death peopla the covid was not the only cause of death e perhaps not the final cause but the numbers are REAL and out of ordinary for number of case/time and for a limited area.

So the real problem is that in some area (and we don t understand why) there was and there is (a bit less now) an out of ordinary spreading of a virus with number of concurrent cases very high and too high to be handled by a health system (and regarding of number of beds and specially ICU beds Italy had made drastic a reduction in the last 10 years).

Regarding the classical flu it is wrongly considered a not dangerous pathology .. It can
 
Curious timing...

" As the clock struck midnight on the east coast Friday morning, [Bob] Dylan released a new song, “Murder Most Foul,” that has a running time just seconds shy of the 17-minute mark — and it’s an epic free association on the 1963 assassination of President John F. Kennedy."

Bob Dylan Releases 17-Minute Song About JFK Assassination


From Youtube comments: "This one sure doesn't give up all it's got in one listen. Leonard Cohen is smiling somewhere..."

Maybe Dylan felt this song would do some good in light of the current situation. The song has some rather 'conspiratorial undertones', or maybe they are overtones...
 
"Greetings to my fans and followers with gratitude for all your support and loyalty across the years. This is an unreleased song we recorded a while back that you might find interesting. Stay safe, stay observant and may God be with you. - Bob Dylan".
 
It's not that "people have curtailed routine visits", it's that they've been told to stay away, appointments cancelled, etc.
Laura
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It is very coordinated. Every day at 11h15 the measures become more restrictive from the mouth of Prime Minister Trudeau. When we go to buy food, we are treated like they do in airports since 2002. Enough to make you never want to return. This is going very quickly. In Québec they are shutting down REGIONS, meaning we wont be able to go into the cities probably by next Monday. We cannot walk side by side more than 2 people at once unless we are the same familly (whateva that means nowadays here?) Boy are we glad to be connected to you all!!!!
 
guimondaniel said:
We cannot walk side by side more than 2 people at once unless we are the same familly
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Well, in France, 3 days ago, I was out with my husband to buy some food and we were said by a policewoman, who asked us if we lived together that we weren't allowed to be 2, that one of us must stay at home and that it should be always the same that go out. After that, she said with a little smile (which seemed to say "I know that all this is stupid") that of course we can do all we want at home :rolleyes:
 
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