Creating a New World

[pinkredpurple]

ok i found it.
well, there are a lot of things that i do not agree with what the creator of the venus project says, jacque fresco, says. as far as i understand he thinks all ufo phenomena are hoaxes or can be explained with chinese lanterns and such. i also heard that he does not believe that 9/11 was an inside job.
but the point is that despite his shortcomings in those and other areas to understand certain concepts he still came up with a system for a new world which just makes sense. it's not an ideology, it's a system on how to use the earth's resources the most efficiently. those guys - jacque fresco, roxanne meadows and peter joseph keep saying - this system is not rigid. it keeps evolving with the science, with earth's resources, with people's needs and also with social changes.
it's something that we can take and upgrade it and mold it the way we want - like an open source software. it's not something dictated from above but something that keeps changing with the people who use it.

 

[pinkredpurple]

Personally, I would not want to live in a world like that. Oh, right, I already do...

you mean you already live in a world without a government, without money and where the world's resources are used in the most efficient way to serve all people? lucky you, i'd say.

Replacing one form of slavery with another is the oldest trick in the book. And we fall for it, over and over and over and over again. When will it stop? It will stop when we look at reality as it is, and base our actions on that reality, rather than some fantasy.

where do you see slavery in the venus project? please explain.

 

[foofighter]

ok i found it.
well, there are a lot of things that i do not agree with what the creator of the venus project says, jacque fresco, says. as far as i understand he thinks all ufo phenomena are hoaxes or can be explained with chinese lanterns and such. i also heard that he does not believe that 9/11 was an inside job.
but the point is that despite his shortcomings in those and other areas to understand certain concepts he still came up with a system for a new world which just makes sense. it's not an ideology, it's a system on how to use the earth's resources the most efficiently. those guys - jacque fresco, roxanne meadows and peter joseph keep saying - this system is not rigid. it keeps evolving with the science, with earth's resources, with people's needs and also with social changes.
it's something that we can take and upgrade it and mold it the way we want - like an open source software. it's not something dictated from above but something that keeps changing with the people who use it.

Ok, for arguments sake, let's pretend that even though this guy has no idea about how the world works, somehow he managed to come up with a system that "works".

Let's also pretend for a moment that you are a psychopath. How would you abuse the system that he describes? If you want to exploit the system for your own benefit, how would you go about doing it?

 

[pinkredpurple]

ok i found it.
well, there are a lot of things that i do not agree with what the creator of the venus project says, jacque fresco, says. as far as i understand he thinks all ufo phenomena are hoaxes or can be explained with chinese lanterns and such. i also heard that he does not believe that 9/11 was an inside job.
but the point is that despite his shortcomings in those and other areas to understand certain concepts he still came up with a system for a new world which just makes sense. it's not an ideology, it's a system on how to use the earth's resources the most efficiently. those guys - jacque fresco, roxanne meadows and peter joseph keep saying - this system is not rigid. it keeps evolving with the science, with earth's resources, with people's needs and also with social changes.
it's something that we can take and upgrade it and mold it the way we want - like an open source software. it's not something dictated from above but something that keeps changing with the people who use it.

Ok, for arguments sake, let's pretend that even though this guy has no idea about how the world works, somehow he managed to come up with a system that "works".

Let's also pretend for a moment that you are a psychopath. How would you abuse the system that he describes? If you want to exploit the system for your own benefit, how would you go about doing it?

ok i'm really not getting it how this quotation works here. even though i had html lessons in school. it seems 100 years ago.

anyway, maybe i misunderstood laura's initial question. the way i understood it, is how to create a system for a new world which would be in 4D yes? or did i misunderstand this?

 

[vinny]

anyway, maybe i misunderstood laura's initial question. the way i understood it, is how to create a system for a new world which would be in 4D yes? or did i misunderstand this?

You don't need to think of it in terms of 4D. We can't know what 4D is like, until/unless we get there. The point of the exercise was how to conduct ourselves in 3D, but by starting to imagine a 'clean slate' where all our preconceived notions about how community/society should work, are stripped away, so we can look at the very fundamentals of human existence. But also, by making use of all our current knowledge of the world we live in, pathology, even hyperdimensional influences etc.

This is a very powerful 'thought experiment' that may indeed be relevant as modern civilisation continues to collapse in on itself, and we work towards a better understanding of how we can live, here and now, what sort of community and principles of living should we work towards? what are the core things that need our attention? how to defend against pathology? How do we use 'what we've got', and survive in a hostile environment? What fixed ideas of society do we still hold that are actually social-programming, remnants of the pathocracy that we are immersed in (such as the whole 'money' issue)? That kind of thing. I think you'd find the whole thread very interesting, to get an idea of some of the background thinking.

 

[pinkredpurple]

ok, i just thought that psychopaths wouldn't make it to 4D.

so ok, let's make a thought experiment assuming that everyone involved is still in 3D with few cases of enlightenment.
so, since as i'm not an expert and the creators of the venus project don't have all the answers either (i actually think they do have answers for cases of pathology but to keep the open source software idea more vivid let's put their ideas aside for a moment - if everyone agrees with that, yes?), let's see what we can come up with together.
ok so, where are we?
there is no government. no laws.
there is no money or any equivalent of such.
but: i'm a psycho and it's in my innate nature to make people suffer and make them feel inferior. ok, so what i would come up with, is: i'd dress up as the pope and tell people that unless they kiss my dirty muddy stinky feet every day for at least let's say 6 hours and be my serves and do everything i tell them to, their souls will never find rest. ok, seriously i don't know whether this would work, cause people nowadays already tend to understand that part of the scam. but something of that nature. or i'd tell them that if they do not obey me i'd kill them! although i don't think i'd go far with this, since they are so many more than me. ok so let's say i found a couple of other psychos, so we are a larger number. (i wanted to insert here that we are a bunch of psychos with very powerful weapons, but i don't think i can assume there would be weapons in the venus project. if there is no money, then there is no military-industrial complex, right? and then VP is all about the most efficient allocation of resources for everyone's benefit - which clearly wold exclude weapons production. ok so i can exclude weapons, unless they are of some primitive kind, like knives, i guess.). but still the non-psychos are many many more. hmmm. ok right now i'm at a loss. how would you go about in this case if you were a psycho and wanted to live it all out in the VP? any ideas to take it from here?

 

[vinny]

any ideas to take it from here?

well I don't want to go over old ground (it's discussed in the thread), but at its core: in an 'extended family' environment, pathology has nowhere to hide, or at least if it manages to lurk for a time it has nowhere to thrive. Then individual cases of pathological behaviour can be dealt with on a case by case basis, in whatever way is appropriate. You could see this forum as an example of that. It is something that can be applied here and now - working with 'what we've got'. The 'extended family' can be so powerful in enabling each human being to thrive in their own way - pathologicals will do everything in their power to undermine the fabric it, hence we stress the importance of the 'network'.

The main problem I see with the Venus Project, is that it makes a whole lot of assumptions on the 'what we've got' side of things. What we've got isn't a whole lot, in terms of external resources, because the pathologicals have grabbed it all. What we do potentially have is knowledge, and the network, and ourselves. The work begins, therefore, with Work on ourselves, utilising the network and the knowledge that it brings.

On the point of psychopaths and 4D, have you considered 4D STS? maybe it would help to have another look at The Wave.

 

[pinkredpurple]

any ideas to take it from here?

well I don't want to go over old ground (it's discussed in the thread), but at its core: in an 'extended family' environment, pathology has nowhere to hide, or at least if it manages to lurk for a time it has nowhere to thrive. Then individual cases of pathological behaviour can be dealt with on a case by case basis, in whatever way is appropriate. You could see this forum as an example of that. It is something that can be applied here and now - working with 'what we've got'. The 'extended family' can be so powerful in enabling each human being to thrive in their own way - pathologicals will do everything in their power to undermine the fabric it, hence we stress the importance of the 'network'.

ok, so you're saying that venus project would take care of psychos or minimize their impact.
good, we have that cleared.
well do we? i really wanted to go on with the thought experiment because i wanted to find some answers for myself.
and maybe it is useful to go over things a second time even if it seems they have been covered, since it was someone else who suggested the thought experiment.
so apparently this kind of thought experiment has not been done using the venus project. and some people dismiss the VP here because they say it does not have a solution for how to deal with psychos. now you say, yes it does have a solution.
i say let's go on with the thought experiment.

The main problem I see with the Venus Project, is that it makes a whole lot of assumptions on the 'what we've got' side of things. What we've got isn't a whole lot, in terms of external resources, because the pathologicals have grabbed it all.

hmm i don't know. i'm not convinced. i do think we have a lot, i think we have multiples of what we would need. yes, the pathologicals have many things. but they don't have everything. and they are outnumbered, so the little things that the majority has might be just enough to get things rolling. maybe. also i have to say that the attitude of "no, it's impossible" strikes me as extremely 3D ...
that's why, to find out, i'd like to start a second thought experiment. let's call it the "VP city experiment".
let's say we want to build one city. the first VP city. with the hope that when people see that this type of thing works there will be more who'll follow.
ok, let's say since we are new to this, we'll construct a first city for 5000 people?
what we want to build is a city which is run on any kind of renewable energy and which produces its own food and clothes. ok let's keep it simple here for the exercise's sake. so we need the architectural structures, the energy and food.
ok, how do we get started?

On the point of psychopaths and 4D, have you considered 4D STS? maybe it would help to have another look at The Wave.

ok, so if there will be 4D STS on the new earth, then why are they saying that you have to be of at least 51% positive intent to make it. can you be a psychopath with 51% positive intent in you? i thought the whole thing was about 4D STS trying to get us to become 4D STS too, but apparently they gonna fail, because the earth is destined to move COLLECTIVELY (which in my understanding means everyone? but correct me if i'm wrong) to 4D STO this time, and that has never been done before and that's why we're the greatest show in the universe-s. or am i misunderstanding something.

 

[vinny]

ok, so you're saying that venus project would take care of psychos or minimize their impact.
good, we have that cleared.

nope. This is not about the Venus Project. See here for more on the Venus Project.

The main problem I see with the Venus Project, is that it makes a whole lot of assumptions on the 'what we've got' side of things. What we've got isn't a whole lot, in terms of external resources, because the pathologicals have grabbed it all.

hmm i don't know. i'm not convinced. i do think we have a lot, i think we have multiples of what we would need. yes, the pathologicals have many things. but they don't have everything. and they are outnumbered, so the little things that the majority has might be just enough to get things rolling. maybe. also i have to say that the attitude of "no, it's impossible" strikes me as extremely 3D ...
that's why, to find out, i'd like to start a second thought experiment. let's call it the "VP city experiment".
let's say we want to build one city. the first VP city. with the hope that when people see that this type of thing works there will be more who'll follow.
ok, let's say since we are new to this, we'll construct a first city for 5000 people?
what we want to build is a city which is run on any kind of renewable energy and which produces its own food and clothes. ok let's keep it simple here for the exercise's sake. so we need the architectural structures, the energy and food.
ok, how do we get started?

If you fail to take into account the pathology we are surrounded with, it is going to be impossible to get started. You think, in the current state of things, there is even a possibility (or that it would be desirable?) to 'construct a first city for 5000 people'?? Consider for a moment, how even whole countries get 'taken out' if they do not conform to the required global agenda. I think you are missing a whole lot of necessary context here.

ok, so if there will be 4D STS on the new earth, then why are they saying that you have to be of at least 51% positive intent to make it. can you be a psychopath with 51% positive intent in you? i thought the whole thing was about 4D STS trying to get us to become 4D STS too, but apparently they gonna fail, because the earth is destined to move COLLECTIVELY (which in my understanding means everyone? but correct me if i'm wrong) to 4D STO this time, and that has never been done before and that's why we're the greatest show in the universe-s. or am i misunderstanding something.

It is not about 4D. It is about the here and now.

 

[un chien anadolu]

For me the main problem with project venus is very clear and simple. The main portion of Zeitgeist movie concentrates on today's corrupted system created and maintained by psychopaths. And then in the end it gives the solution : venus project. And abracadabra! All psychopaths disappear as if they never existed or as if the main problem was shortage of energy resources (you may also want to check the threads about 'peak oil' scam).

And even if we forget the psychopaths it doesn't take into account the social programs and pathological corruption of "normal" people either. Again, as if the only problem is the shortage of energy resources (and the monetary system based on this) people would get rid of all these programs, habits, greed etc. when they would start to live peacefully in a good habitat with free energy.

 

[anart]

ok, so you're saying that venus project would take care of psychos or minimize their impact.
good, we have that cleared.

nope. This is not about the Venus Project. See here for more on the Venus Project.

Please read this thread in its entirety, pinkredpurple. Expecting others to get you up to speed is really lacking in external consideration.

 

[pinkredpurple]

i run a search on venus project and it is not mentioned in this thread. or did i miss something?

 

[pinkredpurple]

For me the main problem with project venus is very clear and simple. The main portion of Zeitgeist movie concentrates on today's corrupted system created and maintained by psychopaths. And then in the end it gives the solution : venus project. And abracadabra! All psychopaths disappear as if they never existed or as if the main problem was shortage of energy resources (you may also want to check the threads about 'peak oil' scam).

this is like moving in a circle.
when you mention venus project on this forum, people shout "psychopathy!"
someone who was willing to explore whether the VP really does not offer a solution with psychopathy suggested a thought experiment. but no one here was willing to engage in it. so people instead prefer to hold onto their fixed opinions. so much for truth seeking.

And even if we forget the psychopaths it doesn't take into account the social programs and pathological corruption of "normal" people either. Again, as if the only problem is the shortage of energy resources (and the monetary system based on this) people would get rid of all these programs, habits, greed etc. when they would start to live peacefully in a good habitat with free energy.

the majority of people in jails are non aggressive drug offenders.

 

[pinkredpurple]

ok, so you're saying that venus project would take care of psychos or minimize their impact.
good, we have that cleared.

nope. This is not about the Venus Project. See here for more on the Venus Project.

i already read this thread after the first time it was mentioned.
those people are saying over and over the same thing - VP does not have a solution for psychopathy.
i took up the offer of the thought experiment since the possibility sprang up that VP DOES have a solution for psychopathy - but nobody was willing to pick it up so far.

The main problem I see with the Venus Project, is that it makes a whole lot of assumptions on the 'what we've got' side of things. What we've got isn't a whole lot, in terms of external resources, because the pathologicals have grabbed it all.

hmm i don't know. i'm not convinced. i do think we have a lot, i think we have multiples of what we would need. yes, the pathologicals have many things. but they don't have everything. and they are outnumbered, so the little things that the majority has might be just enough to get things rolling. maybe. also i have to say that the attitude of "no, it's impossible" strikes me as extremely 3D ...
that's why, to find out, i'd like to start a second thought experiment. let's call it the "VP city experiment".
let's say we want to build one city. the first VP city. with the hope that when people see that this type of thing works there will be more who'll follow.
ok, let's say since we are new to this, we'll construct a first city for 5000 people?
what we want to build is a city which is run on any kind of renewable energy and which produces its own food and clothes. ok let's keep it simple here for the exercise's sake. so we need the architectural structures, the energy and food.
ok, how do we get started?

If you fail to take into account the pathology we are surrounded with, it is going to be impossible to get started. You think, in the current state of things, there is even a possibility (or that it would be desirable?) to 'construct a first city for 5000 people'?? Consider for a moment, how even whole countries get 'taken out' if they do not conform to the required global agenda. I think you are missing a whole lot of necessary context here.
[/quote]

i keep just hearing from you "it's impossible it's impossible it's impossible". how many people on the other side keep saying the same thing if confronted with UFO reality, government corruption or the notion of the immortality of the spirit?

you seem to be so sure that your opinion is the truth. you're not even willing to take up a thought experiment. why?

ok, so if there will be 4D STS on the new earth, then why are they saying that you have to be of at least 51% positive intent to make it. can you be a psychopath with 51% positive intent in you? i thought the whole thing was about 4D STS trying to get us to become 4D STS too, but apparently they gonna fail, because the earth is destined to move COLLECTIVELY (which in my understanding means everyone? but correct me if i'm wrong) to 4D STO this time, and that has never been done before and that's why we're the greatest show in the universe-s. or am i misunderstanding something.

It is not about 4D. It is about the here and now.

[/quote]

wow, really nice how you killed this one.

 

[pinkredpurple]

any ideas to take it from here?

well I don't want to go over old ground (it's discussed in the thread), but at its core:

so what do you mean by "old ground" in this context? i asked to take up the thought experiment and you say it's old ground.
so in you're saying that going over how spychos would be dealt with in VP (or a similar social context, which you call "extended family" which in fact is close to what the VP suggests in my opinion) has already been covered. ok. i did not find any similar discussion on this subject, but fine, since you proceed to give a summarization of this "old ground":

in an 'extended family' environment, pathology has nowhere to hide, or at least if it manages to lurk for a time it has nowhere to thrive. Then individual cases of pathological behaviour can be dealt with on a case by case basis, in whatever way is appropriate. You could see this forum as an example of that. It is something that can be applied here and now - working with 'what we've got'. The 'extended family' can be so powerful in enabling each human being to thrive in their own way - pathologicals will do everything in their power to undermine the fabric it, hence we stress the importance of the 'network'.

so since "old ground" must have referred to the discussion of how psychopathy would be dealt with in a VP or a VP similar environment, then you say here that this discussion lead to the insight that spychos' impact can be minimized or "can be dealt with". ok, so it is a solution. the "network" solution. yes? no?

The main problem I see with the Venus Project, is that it makes a whole lot of assumptions on the 'what we've got' side of things. What we've got isn't a whole lot, in terms of external resources, because the pathologicals have grabbed it all. What we do potentially have is knowledge, and the network, and ourselves. The work begins, therefore, with Work on ourselves, utilising the network and the knowledge that it brings.

On the point of psychopaths and 4D, have you considered 4D STS? maybe it would help to have another look at The Wave.