Creating a New World

I have read most of the thread. I support Tigersoap's view that "you have to be there". That is to say, what one would or wouldn't do is extremely academic considering the individual quirks which most people exhibit. This will be magnified in any collapse of modern systems.

I believe this topic is best presented as a role playing scenario in which someone throws random and radical events into the mix which people then attempt to solve.

Also I am extremely worried by comments regarding what to do about all the psychopaths? Some of the comments were akin to an idea of genocide. This presents somewhat of a paradox.

I had the distinct impression that people were commenting as people living in the sophisticated culture of 'nowness' with all its luxuries and conveniences. It won't be like that.

Will people continue to hold onto existing schemas like existing government systems?
 
All good points and questions, wanderer33. This thread really helps to open our eyes to many places where we are stuck in old beliefs or new assumptions.
 
One other thing I wondered having read all the threads is,
after entering the "forest", where would each one be in terms
of locality? I think of the phrase: "If you build it, they will
come..." which implies movement/migration, from "where you
are" to "getting there"? But before getting there, does one have
to make the necessary preparation to survive before migrating
"there".

I hope I am being clear...
 
dant said:
One other thing I wondered having read all the threads is,
after entering the "forest", where would each one be in terms
of locality? I think of the phrase: "If you build it, they will
come..." which implies movement/migration, from "where you
are" to "getting there"? But before getting there, does one have
to make the necessary preparation to survive before migrating
"there".

I hope I am being clear...
Click to expand...

I've wondered a lot lately if awareness is the key (as the Cs have said), and in ways we don't yet imagine?
 
Yes and even our imagination is limited by our level of knowledge and, hence, awareness. Therefore, I am eager to imagine ways I could not imagine before. :)

Gonzo
 
wanderer33 said:
I have read most of the thread. I support Tigersoap's view that "you have to be there". That is to say, what one would or wouldn't do is extremely academic considering the individual quirks which most people exhibit. This will be magnified in any collapse of modern systems.

I believe this topic is best presented as a role playing scenario in which someone throws random and radical events into the mix which people then attempt to solve.

Also I am extremely worried by comments regarding what to do about all the psychopaths? Some of the comments were akin to an idea of genocide. This presents somewhat of a paradox.

I had the distinct impression that people were commenting as people living in the sophisticated culture of 'nowness' with all its luxuries and conveniences. It won't be like that.

Will people continue to hold onto existing schemas like existing government systems?
Click to expand...

As far as I see it around me, I think yes. And I think that it is impossible for some people to understand and even imagine that all "governments" are false, just gangs of thieves and nothing more. And that they are just soap bubbles that exists only as far as we believe in them, and feeding them.

Also as I see it some have problems to grasp that only what really matters is actually who you are and what you see, that there is no any government or any institution that have ultimately right on people's lives, no institutions that are there to help someone, no religion that will save someone. I think that is really scary for people to just try to imagine that actually they are alone and have responsibility for themselves.

That is probably also worth for todays so called "social dynamics and relationships" and similar existing schemes.
 
I too am surprised at how some are willing to dispense with the psychopaths in some pretty inhumane ways.

So, the dilemma for humans is how to deal with psychopaths while still maintaining our humanity and STS orientation.

Psychopaths will not play by human rules and therefore cannot be engaged in any form or on any level otherwise we will always lose.

With that awareness, we have to somehow devise a way to separate them from us.

We instantly run into confusing issues of psychopathic rights and their free will.
However, we must realize that our rights as a species must come first and their rights end when they impose on our rights.

Do psychopaths have rights (in the universal sense, not legal sense)? Dies some cosmic imbalance occur if we affect the rights of psychopaths?

I get into some circular arguments with myself at this point and have to remind myself that we are under siege, in a state of war with the other, the psychopath, in the same way that certain animals are under siege from human invasion and conquest.

Since we declared war on many parts of creation, what would be an appropriate response if they could build defenses or somehow organize themselves?.

Surely we must seem like psychopaths to cattle. Perhaps our answer is in seeing from their perspective.

Gonzo
 
After having read the 3 Ishmael books I see how it could work and how psycopaths would be excluded. In some ways it is quite dark as they would not fit in with survival of the fittest, as survival requires a group in humanity, like many other animals.

In a smaller community based society, like the Indian tribes, everyone has to carry some weight to survive. In this case the extreme psychopaths would be unable to cooperate. To prevent them from manipulating the elders, or the whole group, there would be networking which works well on a small scale compared to this huge global system we have.

In cases where extreme actions happen, there is no legal system where someone can wiggle through. There is also no such thing as extreme punishments. If someone does not show ability to change to exist with the group, they are exiled. Being exiled from a group means death, as it is much more difficult to survive. On the same token, having a group would make things that are difficult now, like disabilities, or weaknesses easier as the group would share the load.

I have much hope for the idea of this new world. Without needing middlemen and hierarchical leadership, it would be difficult for the psychopathic/schizoid individuals from taking control as they couldn't prove their worth in everyday life.
 
"What do any of the other issues matter if the air is not fit to breath and if the soil is not fit to grow healthy food or to support real life because of what has been sprayed into the atmosphere.

Everybody is distracted by side issues, everyone is distracted by wondering whats down the rabbit hole. Everyone is worried about their own specific environmental concerns but no one is looking up and noticing what is happening around them"


Max Igan
 
I am not sure what you mean to say by that quote, monkey, in the context of this thread. Could you please elaborate? Thanks.
 
OK

Casting an eye over the society in which we live I see many divisions and wonder why it is that we can't all come from the same place as we all have a common threat to our existence. What is it that stops this cohesion? why is it so difficult to achieve this?

I see very little hope for us if we continue to be divided, the New world Order gets more powerful everyday and we are all huddled in our various realities which renders us as a resistance useless.
 
What resistance? How can you fight those that rule by cheating, lying, and stealing? The C's did say "enjoy the show". It has nothing to do with winning the battle, because the C's did say that 4d will be when we are on an even playing field. I can deduce from that, we have no chance of fighting them on 3d.

What stops this cohesion is the ability for STS to lie and cheat daily, whether it be the media or what not. They have learned how to control us much like Pavlov did with Transmarginal Inhibition http://www.sott.net/articles/show/136090-Transmarginal-Inhibition. The thing that annoys me is that people succumb to it. Maybe the only hope is that as things get worse, people may start waking up and resisting. But even that doesn't seem like enough... but maybe that is the "karmic lessons" that the C's stated that we have to face.
 
So many people think they can fight this battle in their heads whilst all around them their physical environment is gradually being contaminated and their rights and dignity are being eroded.

Does fighting it in a different reality make it go away? or in any way stop the progress of the NWO


Exactly - what resistance....and you are right they have learned to control us
 
monkey said:
So many people think they can fight this battle in their heads whilst all around them their physical environment is gradually being contaminated and their rights and dignity are being eroded.
Click to expand...
Well shining a light on the problem is kind of the main thing to do until enough people realize what is happening. Unfortuneately it seems things will have to get worse before a lot of people start to become aware of the problems. The idea of the bad getting worse and the good getting better (more aware) as we get closer to year zero is kind of what was expected (for a year zero actually arriving scenario).

Here's an interesting response I got a couple days ago (from someone in Australia in another forum) to something I posted from this thread:

Monetary systems are, of course, delusional and therefore entropic: "stuff" is better. If you want something or a service, you should trade something or a service of equal value in exchange. But is giving someone a chicken the same as giving someone a sculpture? Probably not, so some system of establishing value of time/goods has to be in place. It could be based on assessing not only the amount of time that goes into something, but the amount of skill - the time it took to acquire the skill - and perhaps even a valuation placed on talent/ability which is sort of a cosmic element
Click to expand...

This is a big part of our lives, families, the communities around here. It's almost like sub families of groups, it's not something I've noticed so much in bigger regional cities, (but there are pockets of it occuring-I am involved), and I've not seen anything of it in capital cities, yet if you get the rapport going the interest is there, where u can treat people with interest and genuine dialogue, they respond.

Yes indeed, 'stuff is better' this is what happens, so many levels, it happens in some places overseas too, the more regional, isolated areas I've worked, watch the cultural/religious boundaries and stuff, but the 'community thing' is an international language, common ground.

It works, and it's worked for a long time, it's also fantastic to be a part of it, and it's a skill and tool u carry with you. You learn it.
Click to expand...
 
monkey said:
OK

Casting an eye over the society in which we live I see many divisions and wonder why it is that we can't all come from the same place as we all have a common threat to our existence. What is it that stops this cohesion? why is it so difficult to achieve this?
Click to expand...

monkey, you are still new to this forum and the vast information it contains. If you read the threads on psychopathy and ponerology, you will get an important piece of the puzzle. These divisions have been promoted by pathological individuals in order to keep “normal” people, that is, people of conscience, set against each other based upon unimportant divisions such as race, gender, class, nationality, religion, etc.

The only important division is that between pathological individuals and those who have the means to feel another’s pain and suffering. The pathologicals can not feel what another is feeling. They are incapable of putting themselves in another’s shoes. Unfortunately, they are pretty much running the show around the world. Their ‘ideals’ and standards have become the standards imposed upon society as a whole. It is not just a dumbing down, it is a killing of conscience.

Until the rest of us, meaning the non-pathologicals, understand this and work together to take back our world, learn to isolate the pathologicals and prevent them from occupying positions of power and influence in groups, social movements, political parties, business, the law, the military, etc, until we are able to understand that these other differences are unimportant in the greater scheme of things and see the difference that really matters on the level of the soul, these false distinctions will remain powerful.

I see very little hope for us if we continue to be divided, the New world Order gets more powerful everyday and we are all huddled in our various realities which renders us as a resistance useless.
Click to expand...
 
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