Creating a New World

obyvatel said:
Laura suggested a movie called "Fast Runner" in this thread . This is based on the Inuits whom Clarissa Pinkola Estes calls the second most ancient surviving hunter-gatherer tribes of the world. The movie is about a situation which shows the infiltration of pathology in the tribe and how it affects them. One person coming from a family composed of individuals with pathological traits did get to a position of leadership in the tribe but these members were removed (banished) in the end.
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Just for the benefit of anyone unfamiliar with the term, the Inuits are less correctly known by the name "Eskimo".

Assuming the Wikipedia article is an accurate description of the movie; and the movie is an accurate characterization of the legend; and the legend is an accurate representation of an actual ancient happening, it is interesting that the pathology was introduced from outside the group. Introduced by someone whose role, authority and/or 'spiritual power' places him out of reach of anyone too content with their own assumptions about the man, or too fearful to ask the ordinary questions about his wants, desires, motives and 'doings' that might preempt disaster.

Judging by this description, the 'evil' came via "a strange shaman by the name of Tungajuaq" who is described as a visitor from up North.

As the story opens,
The 'visitor' and the camp leader Kumaglak are in a "friendly" spiritual duel involving binding in leather thongs.
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But among those present as spectators, "there are some mistrustful faces", suggesting that some people can feel that something is just not right here.

But Panikpak is startled when the stone lamp in front of her breaks in half, and, to the horror of those present, Kumaglak falls over dead. The visitor removes the leader's walrus-tooth necklace from Kumaglak's body, and, passing by Tulimaq [my note: who, judging by a later comment from Qulitalik, I assume is the rightful next leader], he puts the necklace around the neck of Sauri, the son of the murdered leader Kumaglak, saying, "Be careful what you wish for" (suggesting that Sauri's ambition had a part to play in events). Tulimaq leaves, shouting at Sauri "You helped him murder your own father!"
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The shaman took it on himself to put the necklace around Sauri's neck and to poison everyone's minds with the suggestion that Sauri's "ambition" was to blame. At this point, any tiniest amount of early infant or toddler feelings of 'finiteness frustration', or 'me vs environment', or 'me vs others', can be linked up with, causing further and deeper splits within individuals and between members of the camp.

Which, according to the story, is basically what happened, both through Sauri's continued acceptance of the position of camp leader and through the obvious 'entitlement' issues, obnoxiousness and cruelty of his son, Oki, as seen by the story developing over time.

Time passes; the shaman's curse has poisoned the camp. Tulimaq, now the local laughing stock, is having trouble feeding his family because of "bad luck" hunting. But Panikpak secretly brings meat for Tulimaq's children, Amaqjuaq and Atanarjuat, hoping that one day they will grow strong and be able to make things right.
Source: _http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atanarjuat
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According to the article: "One of the lessons of the legend of Atanarjuat is the evil that can occur when personal ambition (Sauri's and Oki's, in the film) is put before the needs of the community."

But I also wonder if any such 'ambition' would actually have developed and materialized in the absence of the shaman who seems to have acted as the catalyst? Just speculation, but maybe not. It seems to me that there should be nobody, anywhere, who is above questioning and/or reproach (if necessary), and the group context should always be one where no one is ever afraid to ask questions and get the kind of honest answers needed to foresee and deal with problems.

Such a situation seems to actually have existed, as the "first condition", before the "evil shaman" was introduced.

Just my thoughts, fwiw.


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Edit: clarity
 
Laura said:
I would like to start a discussion that focuses on Creating a New World.

I would just like for all participants to think about what is wrong with our world and what they would like to see happen to make it right.

There are a lot of things to which there are no simple answers. For example, I don't think that communisim, socialism, fascism or capitalism are the right way to go economically, but I'm not sure what IS the right way that would fulfill the needs of the majority of humans. How to separate what is essential to all, etc. Are there elements of each of those systems that are truly STO and if so, what? How to pull out what is useful and put it together?

I think it will be a very useful exercise to define things, to imagine things, to describe how things would be done in an STO world. Things like who decides things? How? Who owns things? How? Is there voting? How is it done? Who can vote?
Education... what is available to who and how? Who pays for it?

Social services: counseling, child-care, medicine, etc.

Literally every area of our society has been corrupted in one way or another, so how to re-imagine something that would really work? Re-think it, re-define and describe it?

Start anywhere. Maybe we should start talking about what is wrong with various systems and what could be done to fix them, if anything. If they are wrong at the foundation, what to replace them with?
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What an awesome fire you started! This is the building of heaven on earth, eh?

Ok, since I’m no longer lurking and see there are 40 pages of posts on this, I’ll post first then read and reflect.

What I would like to see are a truly educated people, capable of governing themselves in small communities. This government would root from an intimate knowledge of individual sovereignty and responsibility and the tribe’s (we could call it) collective vision of rule by consensus yet never violating that sovereignty.

No simple task indeed. There were models in our world that I understand many of the founding fathers borrowed from. The Great Binding Law of the Iroquois Confederacy was said to have influenced Madison and Franklin and others at the time.

_http://www.indigenouspeople.net/iroqcon.htm

Reading through this document I can see that the focus was on maintaining unanimous consent in council decisions. The various processes centered on inclusiveness and were not dismissive of minority interests.

I can see parallels between this body of work and the US Constitution and even a working safeguard against the smothering of dissent in the filibuster. The most important safeguard against this smothering was an idea known as ‘jury nullification’.

_http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/zenger/nullification.html
_http://fija.org/

This process of trial by peers, having no vested interests of corruption, and convened only during times of need, was of paramount importance in ensuring that direct citizen interaction remained vigilant against government tyranny. In the early days of the country, judges reminded jurors of this responsibility. This position has all but inverted today as most juries are now informed of the opposite; that they have no discretion in judging the merits of the law, only the facts in the case. So as a result, jury nullification occurs in a renegade fashion, if at all, but certainly no longer sanctioned by a system that has degraded to a point of serving special interests.

Capital murder trials are another remnant of unanimous consent. The fact that only one juror may dissent thereby rendering a trial as ‘hung’, throwing the procedure into a stalemate, is a powerful tool toward ensuring that certainty of conviction was focused on collective agreement. I say a remnant, but in these ponerized times, perhaps more a mockery; as a way for the state to murder a person in such a way as to say, “See, the citizens murdered him.”

So Laura, getting back to your question, “.. but I'm not sure what IS the right way that would fulfill the needs of the majority of humans.” I believe that this is where we lost our vision and compromised in a serious way. As we believed that it was enough to look out for only “the majority”. With this we adopted collective programs like “might is right” and all the others that made for winners and losers.

We lost the vision of our real elders who understood the need for the collective to care for the “least among you”. We traded in our care for “progress” seeing majority rule as the way to ‘fairly’ enforce this winner-take-all strategy in this fast-track world.

We had no choice as we did not have the tools that we have today available through the works of this immense project of yours which you’ve now made ours. In order for us to create this new world it must, of course, be fashioned with full knowledge of psychopathology and ponerization processes owning full well, from our historical perspective, that failing to do so would, once again, ultimately destroy us.

I can see schooling becoming an extension of this family tribe. The young being guided by the elders. Direct experience would replace the hypnotic entrainment of the lecturer or textbook. Apprenticeship programs would prevail for any study that the young or old may decide to participate in. It would be commonly known that the best mentorships would be bi-directional learning opportunities. It would always be recognized that the finest creativity many times comes through contact with innocence.

The Work would be the primary curriculum. The networks would be immediate and intimate and would not have to rely on cyberspace, though they still could. Healthcare would be immediately available as we would have realized that it is just not healthy for anyone to have anyone unhealthy. Pharmaceutical companies would become a thing of the past as we will have reclaimed our heritage with nature in all her abundance. Violence would not be tolerated and would be immediately intervened upon in a kind but firm manner, reminding all disputants to return to dialogue and consensus harmony.

I could go on, but I’m really anxious to see what other “fire keepers” have posted first. :cool2:
 
I haven't finished reading this fascinating thread yet, but many responses echo my own. Education came to mind as well-- education that is free and caters to each individual's gifts and talents is a great start. Starting with parents and 'the village' watching the children when they are very young, and noticing their innate talents or personalities, as many tribes used to do, would be a good thing. But the only way I can see this now, entails community living of some kind and 'home schooling' for the young ones. Studying their astrology charts as well.

For now I can say that the only example I know of STO living in this STS 3D world are the Chateau folk. And I only know of this through what I read and see on the Cass related websites and forum, and what I hear from some moderators and others who have visited France and spent time observing and interacting with Laura, Ark and the others. To me, the Chateau folk are the microcosm, the inner circle, a kind of lighthouse in the macrocosm shining in our very dark world. I have come to realize that they got to where they are and living the way they do because they have done a lot of inner work, have learned to navigate 3DSTS, have been 'stripped to the bone', changed their diet and the way they breathe, shared information for free to anyone who asks, met their visitor's needs, just to name a few-- and are examples of what DOING out of BEING really is. Examples for us to follow. I would want to live the way they do, but just add some children to the mix, and educate them on the premises. And have an education outreach to the towns nearby, other cities, countries--just as they are doing now with EE.

Living in the countryside is a good thing for them, and having protection surrounding Laura and Ark is of paramount importance.
For the rest of us, we have to remember that, as the C's said "it does not matter where we live but who we are and what we see." And learning all our lessons.
If I had a choice, I would want to continue to live in the countryside, but nearer to cities, and then establish a center of knowledge, and proceed to disseminate that knowledge, beginning with EE. Having several such circular communities/centers established would be a natural outgrowth of sharing knowledge and expanding. Forum members would come together to do this all over the world.

I can finish reading this thread to find out more about how a new world would look, and as an exercise in thinking about that, expanding my brain (growing new neural channels!) :)
 
I see world where a society of people have come to understand the vastness of the Universe; what it can behold. A people not cluttered nor lined by anthropocentric ideas but altruistic to consciousness. A people who come to distrust the world they survive in, in spite of the many that wallow in it. A people that questioned reality, peered through the perils to know the unseen unproven dynamics of the Multiverse.

A people who have gone through the tribulations of manipulation from above to its lowest and highest degrees. A people who have come to respect and appreciate life because life has been a challenge that tested the character of each with lost and death. A people who have come to action through their culmination of ignorance and inaction which allowed darkness and suffering to perpetuate. With the little that we have can we embrace the gifts that the universe bears in subtlety to give. A people who are not defined by religion, nationalism, gender, race, status, language, or separated by continents; they have fulfilled those terrors of separations and no longer desire the flesh.

A people who have experience the “short end of the stick” and have taken destiny into their own hands and band together to consciously create a new world a new beginning that they are quite aware of. They have continually expanded their horizons to the infinitely complex rays of creation. A people who have earned their place to freely express a creative “BURST” that has been stalled since the fall.

This newly planted seed can create what we “will” together. How then can we be hindered to manifest the Unmanifested? What strength and preparation can be blinded by fear of the unknown? What light we can become to shine through the darkest of caves undiscovered. What treasures can we upheave and be transformed by. What many stories we can tell our children’s. A chapter has been written a new chapter will be created by the hearts and minds of intellect and love. Pardon my lack of imagination as I rather not anticipate what will be.
 
It seems to me that creating a new world should start withe a big word : "CREATIVITY". Creativity links with soul and spirit. Interesting ways of ruling groups without power could be find in endeavours like Auroville in India or Findhorn in Scotland with the idea of core groups to make decisions. The idea here is to allow the transmission of knowledge and expertise in an incessant flow. For a while your are apprentice in a kitchen and if you like it and that you gain expertise, you become quality responsable for the whole kitchen. Then you teach someone else and when it's done, you might go in an other craft, like for exemple wood carving...

Another point of interest is the book of Schumacher "Small is beautiful" published in the 1970s.

To make knew it is important to forget most of the old... How is it possible to have knew ideas if the identification with the old pattern is still present ?
 
bleuciel said:
It seems to me that creating a new world should start withe a big word : "CREATIVITY". Creativity links with soul and spirit. Interesting ways of ruling groups without power could be find in endeavours like Auroville in India or Findhorn in Scotland with the idea of core groups to make decisions. The idea here is to allow the transmission of knowledge and expertise in an incessant flow. For a while your are apprentice in a kitchen and if you like it and that you gain expertise, you become quality responsable for the whole kitchen. Then you teach someone else and when it's done, you might go in an other craft, like for exemple wood carving...

Another point of interest is the book of Schumacher "Small is beautiful" published in the 1970s.

To make knew it is important to forget most of the old... How is it possible to have knew ideas if the identification with the old pattern is still present ?
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Hi bleuciel :)
We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, no need for personal info, just how they found the cass material, and how much of the work here they have read. Thanks and welcome.

Regarding your post, I think the main clue is to not remain identified with old patterns while at the same time having a realistic interpretation of how things are working actually, creativity may find new and unexpected outcomes in relation with our hability to deeply understand the world as it is now.
 
Ask_a_debtor said:
I agree Mac. The first step seems to be getting the issue of psychopathy out to the masses. If we were all aware of the situation, it becomes really obvious that we have the numbers to do something about it. And the problem seems to be that nobody will trust anybody any more because of ponerization. People dismiss any idea of a communal society as idealistic because they've completely lost trust of everyone, and they themselves are not trustworthy. If it is realized that this is not basic human nature, but a result of a pathology on the larger portion of the human race, that would be the first step to alleviating it.
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This is very important. The attitute of trusting no one and locking yourself in with a gun and a bunch of ammo is a measure one should do only when things go really bad, it's not something you should focuse your all actions upon, lest it becomes a distraction. Just like I could resaerch and preach only about permaculture to this life's end while you could only resaerch and preach about psychopathy tp your life's end, and both of us would still have incomplete set of solutions to make things better. A better world cannot come if psychopaths reign and this kind of attitute is the mainstream, but can any good come from fighting against nature and sacrificing so much human and other energy on ways of producing food that ultimately keep us all just more addicted to money and it's byproducts? Even if our monetary system encourages psychopathy, what can you do about it if you can not pull yourself off from that system?

This is why people should divert their efforts a bit. I, a student of permaculture, should learn to recognice psychopaths in my life and learn to deal with them and preferrably avoid them and I've been doing so. You, students of psychopathy, should heed my word and do something that's not too elaborate but still something you can do, to make yourself more self-sufficient. Like start a little garden of your own or become a guerilla farmer if you don't have land of your own. Maybe get some solar panels or a cold cellar, or a natural graywater system. Since most of the meat europeans and north americans eat has been fed with GMO (at least 85% I heard), it would be a good idea to grow your own meat too if you got the space and a little time, chickens for example aren't hard to maintain in most climates, even if there are some regulations.

The benefit for me from this: I won't get so trapped with their schemes and diversions, it's a very real benefit. Your benefit: you'll be healthier, have less money troubles and those two things have a small but a very real effect.

I think one can derive much from Edgar Cayce's words. One thing that to do thing, to live your life at your own pace. Another to treat yourself as a whole of body, mind and spirit. I've not yet to read much of his work, but the more I've observed things, the more his words seem to make sense.
 
Hi Laura. I would like to participate in this thread. The following info I am to offer is formed by the wisdom and knowledge I have gained by discovering the treasure that is the transcripts.

I would say, that a world by where everyone is using their specific gift to contribute to society would be ideal. For example, an artist has to work as a waiter sometimes. And sometimes, a waiter has to work in an office. And therefor, the proper gift of the individual is not being utilized. If everyone could do what THEY do I think society would be less negative. Never perfect, but better.

I'm not sure the 3d world was ever meant to work together in such a way. It seems strife is needed for the lessons. However, harmony is certainly a worthy lesson.

My honor to get to contribute to this idea put forth by you.

Sincerely,

Clif
 
Depending on our bodies, technology and who is left standing after the passing of the wave.

We may not need to eat like we normally do, which means we may not need to farm, hunt or any kind of primary production, So we will be able to spend more time as a community concertrating on things like our way of life.

Our minds may have started to evolve to a point where regular communication is no longer apparent, we may be smarter, more in touch with our higher self's to a point where knowledge about most matters will just come to us, if its just STO entities remaining (or moved to another place together) I'm sure we will be living our life's differently. There probably wont be any fighting arguing or anything negative, we will all just know/feel what to do.

I think its something we are ill equipped to prepare for at this current point in time, and that once we have evolved, our knowledge of this matter and all things will just flow.

In my opinion,

Brent Chapman

EDIT: Just to add a few notes, In our current state. I think on the political side of things, we should definitely disregard nearly everything that is running in our current system as it is designed deliberately with flaws it would need to be re-written the current laws of man have been designed and manipulated to control us. If we are truly going to be living free then I suggest the old Indian way of a "wise man" but considering our numbers, maybe multiple wise people in a council might be worth considering.

I really think that we should wait and see, hopefully we can still communicate to the C's when the time comes and they can assist us in the process if we are not ready when TSHTF.

This question only makes a thousand questions come to my mind. Its great to pose this question as it really has started to make me think, I'm loving the material I'm thinking of here but to avoid a rant I'm going to ponder some more and perhaps prepair some more indepth thoughts on this.
 
Now that I have read what others have said, I realised most of my points I would bring up have been covered. I think this area has been explored with much thought by all of you. I am so impressed with the ideas that have popped up and think the experience of this will do so well for all our creative minds,

I Love It,

Thankyou Laura for the querey. The possibilities are infinite,
 
"Yet, when we divide the world into "good and/or evil," that is exactly what we are doing - we are judging. What is "good" is subjective, and what is "evil" is also subjective. We might try to use the terms "positive" or "negative" but we immediately fall into a value judgment of "good or evil," so that won’t do. The terms "Service to Others" and Service to Self" give us a better handle on what we are dealing with in our world.

Lisa complains that it is "too simplistic," and maybe so... but not nearly so simplistic and prone to error as "good and evil," or "positive and negative." If anyone has a better set of terms, I wish they would suggest them!
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Extracted from Laura's paper "STS and STO What does it Really Mean"

I can only think of the positive side, but the expression which comes to mind is simply "Live and Let Live" It requires a little more detail, but to me the state of STO is where you live/exist the way you wish to, and you leave others to do the same, providing help and support where asked and able.

The best I can do for the negative is that one interferes with another's existance.

Cheers

John
 
Forgive my ignorance but....I see no hope for a new world as long as 4thD STS has the ability to time travel & "fix" any good done. :cool2:
 
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