Creating a New World

How does one attempt to create in a world governed by psychopaths that main goal is Entropy? Keep breathing they way we were taught here and forget our focus on the present and the past, caring for the soul and its seemingly small manifestations, that I think may be great. What and who is around us and how we individually express creatively to me is what each one can do. In this way I think we choose to grow and affect change. We are not changing anyone by what we say I don't think, and it may just be that this illusion called our life is perfect no matter what our perception. Psychopaths can't feed of of those creating and becoming lighter through knowledge and awareness. Just my small idea in probably a very surface way to most maybe.
 
supriyanoel, maybe the best defence against psychopathy is empathy.
Psychopaths cannot empathise.
So, if we as a group teach ourselves the skill of telepathy, then we may have a means to defeat them.
Years ago I read a science fiction novel called "Slan" written by A. E. van Vogt, about an emergent race of people who could use telepathy.
Maybe we could become them.
 
Personally, I don't know whose anthropological work I'd recommend these days. There was a time I'd recommend Harvard anthropology professor Clyde Kluckhohn's work because he and Alfred Kroeber once led a drive to put 'values' back into anthropological studies.

Clyde's position was that only values and value-systems provide a basis for a fully intelligible comprehension of culture because the actual organization of a culture is in terms of their values. Unfortunately, Clyde's work was viciously attacked by objectivist sociologists like Judith Blake and Kingsley Davis whose technique involved converting Clyde's 'searching-for-the-right-words' statements into jargon terms (like mores, determinants, norms) so that only they fully knew what they were saying, even when it seemed to impress other readers.

[/quote]

Thankyou, Buddy and MusicMan:
I, too, have been consistently disappointed in the scholarship of my contemporaries (the "Post-Moderns") and have half a suspicion that the PoMo school that has justified itself by "deconstructivist" "philosophy" is truly about getting rid of the constructive elements of western intellectual tradition--a nefarious plot to de-fang the power of knowledge and to vector academe.

The time I spent in grad school and the several years I spent in academe afterward was the time when that movement was just taking hold in the Midwestern universities. I had professors who were going to faculty seminars to get briefed on the exciting new jargon and attitude. When I read Lobachewski's descriptions of how the university of his day was preached-to by Nazi propagandists, I made the mental connection.

I have found the historians, anthropologists, and critics of the previous generations provide much richer insights. Just recently I have been appreciating how Geoffrey Barraclough extracted very powerful insights from medieval history that explain so much about what is going on around us now.

There are some active scholars out there now who have escaped the spell, finally.

I'll look into Kluckhorn--thanks
 
I am lucky enough to live in a rather unique suburb in western sydney. We have a community garden (we all work together and share produce, organise community events) for starters, on council land near the library. The garden reaches out to people in the community, as does the few church groups that use the rooms adjacent to the garden to hold mass, and offer food to the needy on Sundays. The local coffee shop is volunteer run and not-for-profit, with funds going back into the community. There's a group that takes troubled teens and involves them in a donation-only back yard cleaning/mowing/handyman business that helps the unfortunate and down-and-out.
We have several community groups that reach out to people; friends of lalor park, who walk the streets doing mail drops for community groups and engaging in conversation with passers by, a trust bus that offers food to locals some nights of the week, and a monthly meeting of community groups (Lions club, local schools, girl guides, community garden, aged care, local council, police etc) that discuss what they are doing and determine how they may help each other.
The street I live in is very well connected; people drop by and chat, invite each other over for dinner, coffee and parties and discuss their lives, thoughts, hopes and fears. We lend each other tools and time, helping each other complete projects and just generally helping each other out.

If you ask me, I truly believe that without a government, people would come into their own, with community groups self organising and creating co-dependent relationships with other communities to build roads, organise schools etc. Self farming is becoming more importantv - most people around here that I know are at least attempting to grow their own food.

Human beings are generally good. And when they connect with each other in this way, there's no room for psychopathic reality creators; there's nothing for them to do.
 
Inquorate said:
...Human beings are generally good. And when they connect with each other in this way, there's no room for psychopathic reality creators; there's nothing for them to do.
Click to expand...
Maybe so, but IMO there's allways room for a 'path if You don't look out for them... Collectively, I should add.
 
The Realities Of Today's World Renders The Question Inconsequential
The Future Is About To Be Rammed Down Our Throats, Whatever It May Be
I Don't See How It Can Possibly Be For The Better

Our Days Of Having A Say In Much Of Anything Is About Over
 
Yes, a very large topic but a fun one!

I will start by saying that throughout my learning process thanks to this group and the philosophies of Gurdjeiff et al I have come to understand that what I want is rarely what is in my best interest or in the flow of Nature. My life, while more complex due to my proximity to external events, has become easier simply because I no longer try to "make" things happen. This is not a goal achieved but rather an ongoing process that gets better with time.

The above perspective is what I bring to any life question and Laura's question about creating a new world is no different. I WANT a new world! I have WANTED a new world for quite some time now but I now know that it is not possible to create the world I want but it IS possible to evolve into such a world. And this is how I would like to address this question.

For a long time I have looked upon ideas like communes, eco villages, co-housing developments and the like as ways to create a new world. And every time I visited one, no matter how the situation was organized, I always observed a feeling in me that said this is not the world for you. I could never connect with the communal mindset even though I constantly wished and believed that this was the way society would evolve out of its foolish ways.

But it never did. I have never seen nor heard of any collective organization that has broken through the psychological grip that global society has over the masses. This leads me to believe that change - true permanent change - is only possible when the existing construct dies. For no one, unless they are the Lao Tsu types, will go it alone no matter what.

And so I watch as the old world dies knowing that the new world is being born and that you cannot have the latter without the former.

So the question as my ears hear it is this... "How will your behavior change as the old world world, the only world you have ever known, dies?" "How will you act towards other human beings now that BOTH of you are transitioning between the old and new worlds?"

And the answer, if we are truly honest with ourselves is, "I don't know. I've never done it before."

When the old world dies will there be a need for money? I'd tend to doubt it but at first it may be hard for people to let go of the safety that money provides those who are distrustful.

When the old world dies will there be a need for societal organization? I certainly hope not. But there will still be those whose fears and egos will keep them locked in that way of thinking. It will be up to others to inform the fearful that they aren't playing that game any more. Over time a new world will evolve based on the new way of thinking. And time is the kicker. Anybody can create a new world if they have a millennia to evolve into it! But it takes a lot of effort to collapse time in order to get what we want when we want it right? And collapsing time rarely works to the overall benefit of humanity.

So I am content to watch and learn as best I can as the old world dies. That is what is happening at the moment. Tomorrow I will watch and learn as the new world is born because that is what will be happening.

or so I think.
 
Snowalker said:
Yes, a very large topic but a fun one!

I will start by saying that throughout my learning process thanks to this group and the philosophies of Gurdjeiff et al I have come to understand that what I want is rarely what is in my best interest or in the flow of Nature.
Click to expand...

I think this is a very pertinent observation.

[quote author=Snowalker]
So I am content to watch and learn as best I can as the old world dies. That is what is happening at the moment. Tomorrow I will watch and learn as the new world is born because that is what will be happening.

or so I think.
[/quote]

Creating a better new world outside has been in human imagination for a long time. As history shows, the gap between human aspirations and abilities have been rather large in this regard. I doubt if commensurate efforts have been made to change one's inner world. Striving towards a new internal world by a significant number of people is perhaps a prerequisite for creating a new external world. Yes, help from the universe is needed in big measure - but along with such help, we have to put in the right effort in the right context to become active participants in the creation of the new world - or so I think.
 
Hi, Snowalker & Obyvatel,
It seems to me that we do need to be thinking toward a new world, since the one we’re in now is being torn down.

In trying to get an idea of what might be actually possible in that direction, I’ve been studying histories of the end of the Roman Empire in the West, and the beginnings of Christianity. Because the Roman Empire destroyed so much of the social order in its conquests, and then again, when it disintegrated, new political forms and new forms of community were created at that time that have shaped our lives ever since.

Christianity was one big part of the new world. It was a new religion, as well as a new form of social community, and it was just one of many that bubbled up out of the social disorders of the time around our year zero. Most of them left little trace, but Christianity survived and prevailed.

It recently occurred to me that similar disorders with the same potential for spawning new forms of social order—a new world!—are happening right now. I’m thinking of the gratuitous destruction we see in Ukarine, Syria, Gaza and Iraq; earlier episodes in Serbia and Croatia, and many other places where the pathocrats went in with bombs and thugs.

After grieving for the suffering of innocent populations, I now proceed to wonder what happens after the firestorm has passed over these places.

Do family and community networks survive? If not, what replaces them?

What institutions have been created, or have stepped in, to help make life livable again in these places?

Does life return to pretty much the old patterns, or not?

What kinds of people end up being in control, and are these the same kind of people as before, or not?

I don’t remember coming across any journalism that addresses these questions, although some of our Forum correspondents from Ukraine have related some fascinating observations in the course of reporting on events there.

It is my suspicion that those who impose this kind of chaos and destruction do so with the intent to make a “new world” in the target area, but not the kind of new world that any sane person wants to live in. Their nasty new world may exist for a while, but not for long.

When it collapses from sheer psychopathic incompetence, there may be a chance to create something better.

It has occurred to me that what we are doing on this forum is comparable to what the early Christians were doing, and it might not be straight-out crazy for us to be thinking about making a new world.

Do any of our Forum readers have first-hand experience or hard information about how communities have recovered after destruction, terror and genocide, that could inform our thinking about making a new world?
 
ka said:
Quote"Do any of our Forum readers have first-hand experience or hard information about how communities have recovered after destruction, terror and genocide, that could inform our thinking about making a new world?"Unquote

After WWII, I was born into a bombed-out London suburb. My parents decided to emigrate to Australia, a country which had suffered the loss of a lot of its young men in the war, and needed workers for their farms and industries.
We came into the country with virtually nothing, and with hard work we all managed to eke out fairly good lives.
In the late seventies and eighties, there was a further influx from war-torn Vietnam, and these people are currently assimilating into the community here.
There are some 'ghettos', but not many.
These days there is another 'wave' of immigrants arriving from other war-torn countries, and like we did they seem to be having some teething troubles ( today on TV they are discussing whether the Burqa should be allowed to be worn, the Prime Minister said "They are confronting". This from a man who wears 'budgie smugglers' (speedo swimsuits) in his other job as a surf-lifesaver. )
Anyway I am sure the genuine emigrants will succeed in their new lives once they get over the initiation period, just like we did, and the Vietnamese are doing.
Those who came to make trouble will end up back where they came from.
And even those communities we left, in England and in Vietnam are re-establishing themselves in a civilised manner.
We can only hope that the Arab nations will recover in a similar way.
 
MusicMan said:
After WWII, I was born into a bombed-out London suburb. My parents decided to emigrate to Australia,
Click to expand...

Hi, MusicMan:
Your response is helping me think about the answers that are all around me.

So, you emigrated. You were part of the Great Migrations of our era. Great Migrations were part of the end of the Classical Antiquity, too.

Was there anyone to meet you when your family arrived in Australia? Was there anyone who helped you settle in? Family, Church, government agency? (In a couple of the little communities my own family moved to when I was a child, there were actually Newcomers Clubs.)

Who did you turn to in life’s little (or great) emergencies when your family was newly settled?

From what areas of life did you assemble social networks? School, employment, other????

Is there anything you remember being a godsend to you and your family in the process of settling in?

Do you keep in touch with people from the old country? Do you see any essential differences between them and yourselves that you can attribute to the experience of emigration?

My own family did a lot of moving around, too, looking for better economic opportunities; yet that wasn’t what came to mind when I framed my question about making a new world after disaster. But hey, it’s right in my face, and it’s a BIG part of the answer.

I work among people who are largely recent immigrants, and their children are providing the newer cohort. Most of them had to learn a new language, or learn where they could do what they need to do in their own language. The children grew up serving as translators to their parents. Most of them have family networks in the destination country to ease the process of settling in. A lot of them are on some form of government assistance, which complicates their lives a lot.

The elbow-to-elbow at work contact between emigrants from various “old countries” serves to break down cultural barriers in many cases, but erects some in other cases. Some individuals learn to appreciate the humanity of people different from themselves, while others see minor cultural differences as reasons for suspicion and avoidance.

I am in a position to see the effect of compulsory public schooling on the second generation—and, for the most part, it isn’t good. The youngsters benefit from being able to speak the local language fluently. But in very basic ways they are disadvantaged compared to their emigrant counterparts. Basic intelligence and confidence to tackle a new challenge characterizes the emigrant parents, while 12 years of sitting in a desk, and submitting to a pecking order takes its toll on the kids.

My own family network has been pretty much destroyed by geographic dislocations. We hear from family at births, wedding, funerals—but hardly ever can travel the thousands of miles required to attend the rituals connected with them. Friendships formed in school have suffered a similar fate. And, in my own case, other social networks have not really compensated. It would seem to be a general phenomenon in a certain socio-economic strata in my country.
 
Ka, Saw your response, thanks, I will come back with a decent reply after I have had time to think about the subject. Events over 60 years ago take time to recall!
 
ka said:

Quote
Hi, MusicMan:
Your response is helping me think about the answers that are all around me.
So, you emigrated. You were part of the Great Migrations of our era. Great Migrations were part of the end of the Classical Antiquity, too. /Unquote
*We were fortunate that there was a country which was willing to take us, and that we spoke the same language as they did; not only that, but there was no travel cost involved, as my parents were military veterans.*

Quote
Was there anyone to meet you when your family arrived in Australia? Was there anyone who helped you settle in? Family, Church, government agency? (In a couple of the little communities my own family moved to when I was a child, there were actually Newcomers Clubs.) /Unquote
*We lived in Migrant Hostels for more than five years, before they built a town big enough to house us all (Elizabeth). There was a group known as 'The Good Neighbour Council' which rendered assistance to those who needed it, and jobs were made available for those who could work.*

Quote
Who did you turn to in life’s little (or great) emergencies when your family was newly settled? /Unquote
*I was only five, so it all happened around me. Mostly the families entertained each other. There were lots of parties! (no TV)*

Quote
From what areas of life did you assemble social networks? School, employment, other???? /Unquote
*for me it was mostly school friends; I later joined the Navy, and formed some lasting relationships with crew members and their families, met my wife and her family, had children and met their friends' families.*

Quote
Is there anything you remember being a godsend to you and your family in the process of settling in? /Unquote
*Life was tough, and my father had to travel a long way to find work. He worked in Mount Gambier and Maralinga, later Woomera; this took a toll on the marriage, and after the divorce, I was made a Ward of the State - and the godsend for me was that I was taken in by the family across the road, and lived with them for the next nine years.*

Quote
Do you keep in touch with people from the old country? Do you see any essential differences between them and yourselves that you can attribute to the experience of emigration? /Unquote
*Lost contact with the grandparents and some English relatives, apart from a few letters from one grandmother and one of my cousins, who actually came out to visit us this year. Some of my Mother's siblings also emigrated to australia and New Zealand. I think the only difference is that I speak with an Australian accent. Both my Mother and Father returned to England to visit briefly with their parents, but I never went back. My sister went to live in England for a few years, but came back to Australia to retire.*

Quote
My own family did a lot of moving around, too, looking for better economic opportunities; yet that wasn’t what came to mind when I framed my question about making a new world after disaster. But hey, it’s right in my face, and it’s a BIG part of the answer.
I work among people who are largely recent immigrants, and their children are providing the newer cohort. Most of them had to learn a new language, or learn where they could do what they need to do in their own language. The children grew up serving as translators to their parents. Most of them have family networks in the destination country to ease the process of settling in. A lot of them are on some form of government assistance, which complicates their lives a lot. /Unquote
*I agree with this, having worked in a multinational company and met a lot of different people from various ethnic backgrounds. The ones who impressed me the the most were the ones who made an effort to learn the local language, and also spoke it at home. Children pick up the new language very quickly. Australia has a TV channel dedicated to the multinational community, which delivers news in their languages.*

Quote
The elbow-to-elbow at work contact between emigrants from various “old countries” serves to break down cultural barriers in many cases, but erects some in other cases. Some individuals learn to appreciate the humanity of people different from themselves, while others see minor cultural differences as reasons for suspicion and avoidance. /Unquote
*I can also agree with this view. I think the biggest problem for emigrants is where they are thrown together with their old antagonists, such as the South versus North Vietnamese, this causes some friction in the workplace and the schools. We can now see tensions rising between Muslim and Christian in the current climate, and there has been some street rioting, which authorities have managed to keep a lid on. Perhaps it is competing criminal elements trying to establish their territory.*

Quote
I am in a position to see the effect of compulsory public schooling on the second generation—and, for the most part, it isn’t good. The youngsters benefit from being able to speak the local language fluently. But in very basic ways they are disadvantaged compared to their emigrant counterparts. Basic intelligence and confidence to tackle a new challenge characterizes the emigrant parents, while 12 years of sitting in a desk, and submitting to a pecking order takes its toll on the kids. /Unquote
*I'm not really in a position to comment on the current situation, but I can only say that for me the Public School system was the way I went, and I sent all my own kids into that system, deliberately avoiding Private Schools. Even so, I struggled at school to compete against the children of the boffins who worked at the Salisbury Weapons Research Establishment.*

Quote
My own family network has been pretty much destroyed by geographic dislocations. We hear from family at births, wedding, funerals—but hardly ever can travel the thousands of miles required to attend the rituals connected with them. Friendships formed in school have suffered a similar fate. And, in my own case, other social networks have not really compensated. It would seem to be a general phenomenon in a certain socio-economic strata in my country. /Unquote
*Yes it is lamentable that our children never got to meet their great grandparents, and overseas family members. On the bright side, there have been plenty of those occasions in this country, where the local family has participated. I must say that when I joined the Navy during the Vietnam war, I did lose contact with all of my school friends.*

*I hope that people reading this show a little forebearance, as although this conversation has seemed to be somewhat self serving, I hope it shines a little light on what emigrating people have to experience. I think every family's experiences will be different, and some more tragic than others. Along the way, I have met a lot of emigrants and refugees, and on the whole I consider that they are largely integrating well into this country. The influx of cultural ideas and cuisine has certainly modified our thinking. When I was younger, spaghetti and pizza were unheard of. Now we are getting Chinese, Thai and Malaysian cooking styles and even Falafel and Halal food is making inroads now.*
 
Thankyou MusicMan for a very gracious and informative response.

Sometimes the things that are right in front of me don’t get the attention they warrant, and immigration is one of them. In “normal” social conditions, immigrants are the ones who experience having to make a new world in the biggest way.

Not very many people have to create their new world as completely as Noah did. But awareness of the normal immigrant challenges and the ways we have met them can help keep my thinking about “Creating a New World” connected with social reality.

I will be adding your input into a big stew-pot of ideas, and letting them all cook together for awhile.

Thanks again, MusicMan, for staying in the conversation.
 
Hi Musicman,

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