llreid1979
The Force is Strong With This One
Everything brings me back to psychopaths. Education, Social Norms, Cultural practices, Religion etc. I guess start weeding out these psychopaths would be the most important thing. But How???
Creating a New World
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Jodi
Padawan Learner
Maybe Create community events that psychopaths could not possibly handle. Or simpler things like terms of agreement to use or participate in community things like the library, town pool.... There have to be some things that come naturally to us than are anathema to psychopaths and it would only be a matter of time until they outed themselves? Just a thought off the top of my head.
Psalehesost
The Living Force
It is easier to recognize psychopaths in small communities where everyone knows everyone. People in such environments, if they are reasonably psychologically healthy, can notice when someone is selfish, manipulative, and generally destructive.
It is harder in a big society or civilization. When there's big institutions, and leadership acting from a distance, people can be fooled by psychopaths much more easily. It also enables a psychopath to wield much more power - financial, political, religious, etc. - in a way that is not really possible in self-governed small tribes or villages. In a small society where everyone knows everyone, if a psychopath is exposed, the psychopath can be removed from the society - but this is much harder when there's a big societal power structure wielded by the psychopaths.
In history, large-scale psychopath-inspired/directed evil seems to begin with large-scale agriculture. When resources became centralized, whoever controlled those life-sustaining (and later in turn financial) resources, had power over the lives of others. All that was needed, then, for psychopathy to gain a foothold, was for some psycho to gain control of those centralized resources. The result is pretty much civilization as it has unfolded throughout history, in repeating cycles.
The kind of civilization we currently have brings another problem. Greed results in the overall organization, including packing lots of people into cities where they live without knowing one another. There is relative isolation and less healthy sense of meaning in life. The greed of psychopaths also turns large portions of the population into, basically, worker drones. Then there is propaganda, religious and other cultural programming, war, etc. With all the conditions that are created, people become less and less psychologically healthy, are fed all kinds of lies, and generally lose their senses to one extent or another. This then makes it easier for psychopaths to remain in control. And from time to time things can get very ugly - then it's back to "normal" for a while. Rule by psychopaths can be either overt or less obvious, but in any case it can be clearly seen whenever there's any large inequalities in a society.
So, small-scale solutions are much simpler - small communities. Large-scale solutions would need to systematically fix everything that's driving people crazy and making them easy to manipulate.
It is harder in a big society or civilization. When there's big institutions, and leadership acting from a distance, people can be fooled by psychopaths much more easily. It also enables a psychopath to wield much more power - financial, political, religious, etc. - in a way that is not really possible in self-governed small tribes or villages. In a small society where everyone knows everyone, if a psychopath is exposed, the psychopath can be removed from the society - but this is much harder when there's a big societal power structure wielded by the psychopaths.
In history, large-scale psychopath-inspired/directed evil seems to begin with large-scale agriculture. When resources became centralized, whoever controlled those life-sustaining (and later in turn financial) resources, had power over the lives of others. All that was needed, then, for psychopathy to gain a foothold, was for some psycho to gain control of those centralized resources. The result is pretty much civilization as it has unfolded throughout history, in repeating cycles.
The kind of civilization we currently have brings another problem. Greed results in the overall organization, including packing lots of people into cities where they live without knowing one another. There is relative isolation and less healthy sense of meaning in life. The greed of psychopaths also turns large portions of the population into, basically, worker drones. Then there is propaganda, religious and other cultural programming, war, etc. With all the conditions that are created, people become less and less psychologically healthy, are fed all kinds of lies, and generally lose their senses to one extent or another. This then makes it easier for psychopaths to remain in control. And from time to time things can get very ugly - then it's back to "normal" for a while. Rule by psychopaths can be either overt or less obvious, but in any case it can be clearly seen whenever there's any large inequalities in a society.
So, small-scale solutions are much simpler - small communities. Large-scale solutions would need to systematically fix everything that's driving people crazy and making them easy to manipulate.
Jodi
Padawan Learner
Well It does make perfect sense. And after I thought about it I realized you would not have psychopaths volunteering or participating in events anyway so it's not a good way to weed them out. There must be though!! How about when you take the census? Certain questions can easily be hidden.
It's counterintuitive and goes against the whole idea of the society, though. And ultimately, would it even BE the type of society it claims to if we set up traps to weed people out? Hmmm... I'd say no.. We'd have to accept them and maybe hope they eventually want to change.
It's a really cool question though! Thanks for adding the psychopaths to the equation. I'm still trying to figure it out!!!! :)
It's counterintuitive and goes against the whole idea of the society, though. And ultimately, would it even BE the type of society it claims to if we set up traps to weed people out? Hmmm... I'd say no.. We'd have to accept them and maybe hope they eventually want to change.
It's a really cool question though! Thanks for adding the psychopaths to the equation. I'm still trying to figure it out!!!! :)
Psalehesost
The Living Force
Hithere said:
Sure!
(I don't know whether it would be as suitable for quoting, but I also edited my post while you were replying and added some more to it.)
mk1154
The Force is Strong With This One
Jodi said:
This is a commonly brought up by the community of researchers looking into psychopathy. It is in our nature (as empathetic beings) to give people a chance to change and be good. It is in the psychopaths nature to be impervious to this and use it against us. Without the physical capability to feel empathy this concept of being good is probably completely alien to them and impossible to impart on them.
Jodi
Padawan Learner
Ok... I can see why I shouldn't be a rule maker in the community! Lol! I just ordered Ouspensky's "The Fourth Way" which should cover George Gurdjieff's work on thr psychopath. I've read a lot but this is work I'm not really familiar with. I did think a psychopath could change if they wanted to but your answer makes me realize that they don't even see that something is wrong with them.
Then the only way to weed them out of our essentially Edenic society would be through a required questioning process like a census but it would need to have questions designed to catch someone who isn't being truthful.
I wanted to say that a psychopath wouldn't want to join our society but believe the opposite would be true. What better group of people to leech off of? I think a psychopath enjoys undermining society in an effort to ultimately destroy people and would be drawn to people he sees as "do goodiers with their guard down.. I was thinking more along the the Aline's of OPs who may very well be striving and working toward gaining a soul
Then the only way to weed them out of our essentially Edenic society would be through a required questioning process like a census but it would need to have questions designed to catch someone who isn't being truthful.
I wanted to say that a psychopath wouldn't want to join our society but believe the opposite would be true. What better group of people to leech off of? I think a psychopath enjoys undermining society in an effort to ultimately destroy people and would be drawn to people he sees as "do goodiers with their guard down.. I was thinking more along the the Aline's of OPs who may very well be striving and working toward gaining a soul
llreid1979 said:
Hi llreid1979,
One can hope, but weeding out the psychopaths is not so easy. There is always one waiting to step in and fill the void. The best we can do is learn about psychopathy, talk and write about it for those seeking answers about why things are the way they are on the planet.
Since this is your first post on the forum, we would appreciate it if you would post a brief intro about yourself in the Newbies section, telling us how you found this forum, how long you've been reading it and/or the SOTT page, whether or not you've read any of Laura's books yet, etc.
Welcome aboard! :)
BHelmet
The Living Force
Isn't the issue free will? Any system is vulnerable in an environment in which free will is a fundamental aspect. In a world where one is free to choose one's orientation to STO or STS, some or even half are going to choose STS, and seek to violate the free will of the others. In a world already skewed to STS orientation, this issue is worse, and the STO choosers have limited defenses. How do you reject domination, lies and free will abridgment if the alternative is death? (we don't want no steenkin' VISAs)
How do you implement an honor system in a den of incorrigible thieves?
How do you amplify STO by abridging the free will of the STS psychopaths through a psychopath eugenics pogrom or ... (giggle) Psychopaths Island! Send them all to ... oh sheesh - the idea is just so STS.
Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer.
Now, what I am wondering is how is this going to play out in 4D where we have a more equal playing field and this question of what world to create may have more traction?
But I wouldn't count on no central control system. I am guessing the Lizzies will still be there during our 1000 year period to choose. Will STO candidates be invisible to them if FRV not in synch? Can an ideal system of justice be created in 4D or is that 3d thinking that does not apply? Will the Lizzies be the temptations of Christ in the desert for our souls? The C's said Christ would teach as if on TV. How many channels will the Lizzies have? Will we be able to tune them out?
Sigh, there I go asking for a roadmap I am not likely to get.
How do you implement an honor system in a den of incorrigible thieves?
How do you amplify STO by abridging the free will of the STS psychopaths through a psychopath eugenics pogrom or ... (giggle) Psychopaths Island! Send them all to ... oh sheesh - the idea is just so STS.
Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer.
Now, what I am wondering is how is this going to play out in 4D where we have a more equal playing field and this question of what world to create may have more traction?
But I wouldn't count on no central control system. I am guessing the Lizzies will still be there during our 1000 year period to choose. Will STO candidates be invisible to them if FRV not in synch? Can an ideal system of justice be created in 4D or is that 3d thinking that does not apply? Will the Lizzies be the temptations of Christ in the desert for our souls? The C's said Christ would teach as if on TV. How many channels will the Lizzies have? Will we be able to tune them out?
Sigh, there I go asking for a roadmap I am not likely to get.
Charade
Jedi Master
BHelmet said:
Equal playing field. MMM. I plead ignorance about what 4D might be like but from the perspective of 3D, it seems to me, the deck is stacked against us when we are born into life not remembering anything we may or may not have learned in other incarnations. Is that the only way we can make free will choices? I just feel so ignorant - it takes so long to learn the basics of truth seeking in a lifetime without any memories to guide us. So, do we have any advantage of consciously retaining previous knowledge and being in 4D? Remembrance or memory would make it more equal or give humanity a fighting chance ... A roadmap?
I think it's much more practical to keep how to do it in 3rd density as the focus. What Psalehehost wrote above is the crux of the matter. I've thought about and read up on what has worked previously in human societies for the last few years. The only answer seems to be very small social groups, like hunter-gathers had (like 50 to 75 in each camp max). Such groups are surrounded by others of similar size just some kilometers away, etc. These groups have good relations (and maybe some trade and intermarriages, etc.)
That seems to be the only way any healthy human society could start again. Since this model did work for a very long time, it should be the basis for any new attempts, I think.
As far as 4th density, it's quite speculative. But, from what the C's have said, not only is the playing field leveled, the STO and STS realms are separate. So if one commits to STO and polarizes to it, the STS would be "powerless" to interfere anymore. As far as free will, defending one's own and one's group's free will against STS maneuvers and manipulations or attacks is not a violation of their free will. It just depends on how it's done. For example NOT giving what is being asked if it damages STO polarization, etc. This was covered in the Ra material. STO doesn't initiate any interactions with STS. But if attacked, they stand their own ground and both sides lose energy and some polarization leading to a standoff - needing to regroup.
That seems to be the only way any healthy human society could start again. Since this model did work for a very long time, it should be the basis for any new attempts, I think.
As far as 4th density, it's quite speculative. But, from what the C's have said, not only is the playing field leveled, the STO and STS realms are separate. So if one commits to STO and polarizes to it, the STS would be "powerless" to interfere anymore. As far as free will, defending one's own and one's group's free will against STS maneuvers and manipulations or attacks is not a violation of their free will. It just depends on how it's done. For example NOT giving what is being asked if it damages STO polarization, etc. This was covered in the Ra material. STO doesn't initiate any interactions with STS. But if attacked, they stand their own ground and both sides lose energy and some polarization leading to a standoff - needing to regroup.
llreid1979
The Force is Strong With This One
Are psychopaths a necessary Evil? Who would decide who is a psycho and who is not? Other psychos?
Jodi
Padawan Learner
Maybe the true meaning of "turn the other cheek". Don't waste energy or stress the group by starting a war against something that can not even touch us let alone interfere with our work.
I began thinking last night that psychopaths cannot truly form a group because of their inability to give. They will always be caught up in their narcissism. Whereas our free will is actually free. We choose to be part of something bigger and will always be stronger because wE STRIVE to serve our society knowing our service to it is what strengthens it and hence, strengthens ourselves.
Am I on the right track?
I began thinking last night that psychopaths cannot truly form a group because of their inability to give. They will always be caught up in their narcissism. Whereas our free will is actually free. We choose to be part of something bigger and will always be stronger because wE STRIVE to serve our society knowing our service to it is what strengthens it and hence, strengthens ourselves.
Am I on the right track?