Creating a New World

[HiThere]

I'll keep this brief as it really belongs in a different thread,but having had a look at his opinion on nazis and Hitler,he really doesn't hold them in high regard. Nor does he consider the ''American'' civilization as anything worthy of striving for.

That is comforting and maybe reminiscent of the way Nietzsche's thinking were adopted and abused by the nazis, but it still holds true that this line of thinking appeals to the hierarchically minded and quickly leads astray.

Though I haven't read any of his books completely,but only snippets I get shades of ''The path of Wotan'' from his work,which describes the cast system not in strictly racial terms, but instead levels of development relating to individuals. For example,the ''caste'' of leaders who have achieved a high level of development is diluted through thoughtless breeding.

Who is qualified to determine what constitutes a high level of development and how do we get them elected?
This easily develops into new agey word salad struggles as far as I have seen.
I have read Lord of The Rings many times and this longing for the exalted bygone reminds me of the mood Tolkien achieves when he speaks of the perfect past.
It is inspiring to read but dangerous to use as a political tool in this world in this day and age, to my eyes.
Apartheid, slavery, National Socialism etc; it always seem to end in hierarchical abusive realitites - STS.

Now as far as I understand (and I accept that I may be wrong or projecting or have a blindspot or something) thoughtless breeding does NOT refer to race mixing, but instead having children and not teaching them how to develop themselves.
So with the development of the next generation being left up to chance, the generation that comes after is even worse off, hence the ''caste'' is diluted. Or at least this is how I understand the issue.
Something Laura said recently clicked for me when she mentioned that people pay more attention to the breed of their dog than of their life partner.This is very true and absolutely catastrophic from a societal point of view.

I agree that this is what seems to be going on most of the time, and it is an interesting observation. But I disagree in that I can't see evidence for us having had a just leadership "caste" these last millenia to begin with (except for J.C. as in Caesar, and we know how that went and what has been made out of it since) so the question is theoretical in my view.
Who should shoulder the mantle of benevolent dictator next time? Is it probable that it will be a peaceful transition to the new dictatorship?
If not - is it worth to risk it when history repeatedly has shown great negative outcomes from this line of thinking?

Since all diseases and mental illnesses are passed on with no effort to understand or/and rectify anything, each generation of people in fact de-generates in terms of health, mental and physical.
I really think that as an individual one is responsible to society, doubly more so if you have kids, because now you're raising the next generation of human beings which decide the outcome of the entire human race.
Even if the effect is only local, your child could grow up to be a very immature person emotionally and combined with a modicum of intelligence can have a very adverse affect on your community.
Now imagine this effect compounding through BILLIONS of people and it becomes very apparent that thoughtless breeding is a blight on humanity. One of many to be sure.

Same reply as above - I can't see a way forward from this kind of hierarchical thinking that does not lead to war and famine.

Regarding race,I remember Cassies mentioned that ''all people of Nordic descent have secret power centers''. Who are people of Nordic descent exactly? Considering human history and how long various races have interacted with each other,I think it's not too far fetched to say that even the most ''thoroughbred'' black man is likely to have at least some Nordic ancestry and vice versa. Which would imply that such centers can be accessed by most if not all who put in the necessary effort.

Agreed.

 

[Hindsight Man]

I'll keep this brief as it really belongs in a different thread,but having had a look at his opinion on nazis and Hitler,he really doesn't hold them in high regard. Nor does he consider the ''American'' civilization as anything worthy of striving for.

That is comforting and maybe reminiscent of the way Nietzsche's thinking were adopted and abused by the nazis, but it still holds true that this line of thinking appeals to the hierarchically minded and quickly leads astray.

Though I haven't read any of his books completely,but only snippets I get shades of ''The path of Wotan'' from his work,which describes the cast system not in strictly racial terms, but instead levels of development relating to individuals. For example,the ''caste'' of leaders who have achieved a high level of development is diluted through thoughtless breeding.

Who is qualified to determine what constitutes a high level of development and how do we get them elected?
This easily develops into new agey word salad struggles as far as I have seen.
I have read Lord of The Rings many times and this longing for the exalted bygone reminds me of the mood Tolkien achieves when he speaks of the perfect past.
It is inspiring to read but dangerous to use as a political tool in this world in this day and age, to my eyes.
Apartheid, slavery, National Socialism etc; it always seem to end in hierarchical abusive realitites - STS.

Perhaps I am stuck in ''hierarchical thinking'' ,but as far as I can see people need structure and they need someone to look up to.How do we get them elected?I don't think such a process would implement the crude form of ''democracy'' that we're familiar with.And in a system such as this,where the masses are so ignorant,letting them do whatever will lead to absolute disaster.Recently in Canberra,people wanted to vote out a government official who was very efficient and (at least seemed) to have people's interests at heart,simply because ''you need to change it up every few years''.I think that that if you work on developing yourself,people will naturally begin to look up to you and from there you can work on building a community.And it's not going to happen in this ''day and age'',we're discussing a post-cataclysmic scenario.You also seem to think that you're not going to come across violence from varying groups,which is a mistake in my opinion.

Now as far as I understand (and I accept that I may be wrong or projecting or have a blindspot or something) thoughtless breeding does NOT refer to race mixing, but instead having children and not teaching them how to develop themselves.
So with the development of the next generation being left up to chance, the generation that comes after is even worse off, hence the ''caste'' is diluted. Or at least this is how I understand the issue.
Something Laura said recently clicked for me when she mentioned that people pay more attention to the breed of their dog than of their life partner.This is very true and absolutely catastrophic from a societal point of view.

I agree that this is what seems to be going on most of the time, and it is an interesting observation. But I disagree in that I can't see evidence for us having had a just leadership "caste" these last millenia to begin with (except for J.C. as in Caesar, and we know how that went and what has been made out of it since) so the question is theoretical in my view.
Who should shoulder the mantle of benevolent dictator next time? Is it probable that it will be a peaceful transition to the new dictatorship?
If not - is it worth to risk it when history repeatedly has shown great negative outcomes from this line of thinking?

I appreciate you challenging my point of view as it forces me to think more intensely.Now as for your statement regarding the ''perfect caste'' not being seen in history as we know it,I agree and I didn't say otherwise,I just said that this is what was written in the book ''Path of Wotan'' which is reminiscent of some of G's work.
If the question is ''theoretical'' in your point of view,could you help me come up with a practical one?I'm looking for something more concrete that just ''hope for the best''.While quite a bit of attention has been paid to things like work hours and marriage/child rearing,I'm much more interested in how one would actually begin constructing such a system,once the lights go out and the plumbing fails.Since all the other things can be worked out once you little society has some pillars to lean on.

Since all diseases and mental illnesses are passed on with no effort to understand or/and rectify anything, each generation of people in fact de-generates in terms of health, mental and physical.
I really think that as an individual one is responsible to society, doubly more so if you have kids, because now you're raising the next generation of human beings which decide the outcome of the entire human race.
Even if the effect is only local, your child could grow up to be a very immature person emotionally and combined with a modicum of intelligence can have a very adverse affect on your community.
Now imagine this effect compounding through BILLIONS of people and it becomes very apparent that thoughtless breeding is a blight on humanity. One of many to be sure.

Same reply as above - I can't see a way forward from this kind of hierarchical thinking that does not lead to war and famine.

Be more specific please.Explain to me exactly how this will lead to war and famine and what is the method by which we can avoid such a result.Also,what is your alternative solution to thoughtless breeding?I'm trying to come up with a working model that covers as many bases as possible and simply saying ''this will fail'' doesn't help me.

Regarding race,I remember Cassies mentioned that ''all people of Nordic descent have secret power centers''. Who are people of Nordic descent exactly? Considering human history and how long various races have interacted with each other,I think it's not too far fetched to say that even the most ''thoroughbred'' black man is likely to have at least some Nordic ancestry and vice versa. Which would imply that such centers can be accessed by most if not all who put in the necessary effort.

Agreed.

P.S. I don't know how to reply to specific passages without my replies also being highlighted.If someone could help I'd appreciate it.

 

[fabric]

You just need to delete your block quotes from the post so it would look something like this in the editor:

{quote author=somebody}

{quote author=Hindsight Man}
What you wrote previously
{/quote} (delete your text)

Text from person you are responding to (keep this text)

{/quote}

Your response here.



Replace "{" with "[" in the actual reply box. Hope it isn't too confusing. Someone else may explain it better.

 

[Ant22]

P.S. I don't know how to reply to specific passages without my replies also being highlighted.If someone could help I'd appreciate it.

Hi Hindsight Man, in this particular message you seem to have one additional line of code right at the top of your message, that's why it looks like you quoted yourself. I took a screenshot with that unnecessary code highlighted, please see the photo attached.

Just remove the highlighted section. I did just that and it showed up as your own comments under quoted sections in the preview. Just remember to remove [/quote] at the bottom of the entire message too. I am assuming you did want to quote your own previous comments and reply to them?

Whenever my quote sections look wrong I just move around the quote code until it looks right ;)

I'm sorry the screenshot isn't edited, I'm getting ready for work so I don't have time to make it look clearer

 

[HiThere]

Perhaps I am stuck in ''hierarchical thinking'', but as far as I can see people need structure and they need someone to look up to. How do we get them elected?
I don't think such a process would implement the crude form of ''democracy'' that we're familiar with. And in a system such as this, where the masses are so ignorant, letting them do whatever will lead to absolute disaster. Recently in Canberra, people wanted to vote out a government official who was very efficient and (at least seemed) to have people's interests at heart, simply because ''you need to change it up every few years''.

I think that that if you work on developing yourself,people will naturally begin to look up to you and from there you can work on building a community. And it's not going to happen in this ''day and age'', we're discussing a post-cataclysmic scenario.

In a post-cataclysmic scenario we will revert to small groups/tribes, and some of these will maybe be able to keep higher goals in mind. But in my opinion the focus should not be on ways of organizing peiople, as this has repeatedly lead to catastrophe. In my opinion the focus should be on one's self, to work at being less mechanical, and try to maintain faith that this might inspire people around towards similar goals.

It is not probable that any organized effort beforehand will prepare us for a scenario like in the movie "The Road" - we are on our own, each and every one as I see it.

There will not be any predictable support from outside, except in circumstances where people have learned to trust each other beforehand. In my opinion this forum is as close as we are going to get :)
.

You also seem to think that you're not going to come across violence from varying groups,which is a mistake in my opinion.

I am not sure that I understand you correctly - what I meant to express was that I think it is inevitable that violence will dominate in a post cataclysmic scenario, and that any effort towards organizing people in groups beforehand likely will lead to violence as well.

I appreciate you challenging my point of view as it forces me to think more intensely. Now as for your statement regarding the ''perfect caste'' not being seen in history as we know it, I agree and I didn't say otherwise, I just said that this is what was written in the book ''Path of Wotan'' which is reminiscent of some of G's work.
If the question is ''theoretical'' in your point of view, could you help me come up with a practical one?

Nope :). I think all we can hope for is to better ourselves through the Work.

I'm looking for something more concrete that just ''hope for the best''.While quite a bit of attention has been paid to things like work hours and marriage/child rearing, I'm much more interested in how one would actually begin constructing such a system, once the lights go out and the plumbing fails. Since all the other things can be worked out once you little society has some pillars to lean on.

Well, I think that if you are able to connect with a few people in your surroundings and develop trust, that will come in handy.
But I am not personally inclined to excpect to have a great deal of control over anything once society starts breaking down in earnest all over.

Be more specific please. Explain to me exactly how this will lead to war and famine and what is the method by which we can avoid such a result. Also,what is your alternative solution to thoughtless breeding?
I'm trying to come up with a working model that covers as many bases as possible and simply saying ''this will fail'' doesn't help me.

I have been pondering the same issues but have not come up with anything better than what is stated above.
We have chosen to be here to experience these times, and part of the lesson seems to be learning to accept that one can only be responsible for oneself, and that this needs to be learned berfore one can hope to organize anything else :).

Regarding race,I remember Cassies mentioned that ''all people of Nordic descent have secret power centers''. Who are people of Nordic descent exactly?

I do think that it might be useful to look towards the Scandinavian model of society in general regarding equality, health care, quality of life etc, but have no illusions as to how these structures will hold up in a war/famine/cataclysmic situation. Scandinavians are far from perfect and have the same issues of superficiality, herd thinking and consumerism as everyone else.

 

[maiko]

I mostly agree with you, except that I don't think it is necessary for this world to be much less populated than what it is now.
If people were true to nature, oneself and their real needs, everyone would have their place and enough resources for decent living.
Not saying it is better as it is nor that the pop. numbers should increase tough.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I wish I could be more optimistic and share in your opinion. But with the living example given by most human beings currently populating planet earth, I just have difficulties to imagine a world where the spiritual and material resources are shared in a way that doesn’t necessary lead to conflict. I would love to be able to have this faith in our development but either I am lacking the imaginative resources or the knowledge to think beyond my experiences.

But it is always good to be reminded that it leads nowhere to get lost in pessimistic views. And that we should rather concentrate on the process of learning and practicing what we believe in. And maybe it is so hard to even envision such a world where people live true to their nature because I am for myself still at the beginning of the never ending journey of becoming a being in accordance with STO that thinking of the whole world simply overwhelms me for the time being.

On more reason to keep on going.

And fabric, thank you for your insightful reply, much appreciated. :)

 

[Hindsight Man]

[/quote]
In a post-cataclysmic scenario we will revert to small groups/tribes, and some of these will maybe be able to keep higher goals in mind. But in my opinion the focus should not be on ways of organizing peiople, as this has repeatedly lead to catastrophe. In my opinion the focus should be on one's self, to work at being less mechanical, and try to maintain faith that this might inspire people around towards similar goals.

Okay,but people never look up to weak leaders.Or more accurately,weak people make poor leaders.Putin isn't popular because he bows before every threat.Also organizing people is an inevitable part of life.Even just hanging out with your friends takes some organization,tiny amount as it may be.

It is not probable that any organized effort beforehand will prepare us for a scenario like in the movie "The Road" - we are on our own, each and every one as I see it.

There will not be any predictable support from outside, except in circumstances where people have learned to trust each other beforehand. In my opinion this forum is as close as we are going to get :)

Not having any support is precisely why I'm trying to work out a way of living that enables myself and others to live in such a way,that humanity may move foward.Obviously, obviously working on yourself is a part of that.

I am not sure that I understand you correctly - what I meant to express was that I think it is inevitable that violence will dominate in a post cataclysmic scenario, and that any effort towards organizing people in groups beforehand likely will lead to violence as well.

What I was referring to was the ability and will to fight.I understand the desire to avoid violence,but where possible you ought to stand up for yourself and your people,even if that's just your immediate family.Unless avoiding a fight now will bring you victory later.Sun Tzu was quite clever


[/quote]
Nope :). I think all we can hope for is to better ourselves through the Work.

I'm not sure what to say here.This thread was made to see if it's possible to come up with a practical solution to the problem of societal collapse and the endless cycle of decay.If you're not interested in that,why comment?Simply hoping for something does nothing.

[/quote]
Well, I think that if you are able to connect with a few people in your surroundings and develop trust, that will come in handy.
But I am not personally inclined to excpect to have a great deal of control over anything once society starts breaking down in earnest all over.

Fair enough,but if you don't contribute to the new society,someone else will.That person might be a forum member or a bandit or anything in between.See my point?
[/quote]
I have been pondering the same issues but have not come up with anything better than what is stated above.
We have chosen to be here to experience these times, and part of the lesson seems to be learning to accept that one can only be responsible for oneself, and that this needs to be learned berfore one can hope to organize anything else :).

We have already established that self work is vital.
[/quote]
I do think that it might be useful to look towards the Scandinavian model of society in general regarding equality, health care, quality of life etc, but have no illusions as to how these structures will hold up in a war/famine/cataclysmic situation. Scandinavians are far from perfect and have the same issues of superficiality, herd thinking and consumerism as everyone else.
[/quote]
I don't really understand why you brought nordics up again,I clearly stated that race,from the point of view of The Work is a non-issue.

P.S. Sorry guys,i'm a bit thick and still don't get how the quote/reply thing works.

 

[HiThere]

Okay,but people never look up to weak leaders. Or more accurately,weak people make poor leaders. Putin isn't popular because he bows before every threat. Also organizing people is an inevitable part of life. Even just hanging out with your friends takes some organization,tiny amount as it may be.

I think in smaller terms - I am not looking for a leader in my everyday life, but try to be as conscious as can be on my own. If I were to look for leadership instead of relying on myself that would impair my ability to be autonomous.

Not having any support is precisely why I'm trying to work out a way of living that enables myself and others to live in such a way, that humanity may move foward. Obviously, obviously working on yourself is a part of that.

This seems to imply that you have a hope that these kinds of efforts will lead to better organization of society, which is where I do not follow.
I try to live justly in everyday life, but I find it hard to believe that this will improve matters significantly in 3D. I think we are moving in the wrong direction as a whole, and therefore my efforts are increasingly orientated inwards and towards my immediate surroundings.

What I was referring to was the ability and will to fight. I understand the desire to avoid violence, but where possible you ought to stand up for yourself and your people, even if that's just your immediate family.
Unless avoiding a fight now will bring you victory later.Sun Tzu was quite clever

I think the will to fight will be there all by itself, should the situation arise :). But that is more of a fight/fright/flight reaction to my eyes - it is not something I spend a lot of time contemplating.

I'm not sure what to say here.This thread was made to see if it's possible to come up with a practical solution to the problem of societal collapse and the endless cycle of decay. If you're not interested in that, why comment?Simply hoping for something does nothing.

I read this thread as a discussion concerning possible times ahead, where all wil be affected no matter the standpoint beforehand. My contribution to this thread is the observation that we will live or die through whatever lies ahead no matter the amount of prepping.
I do not claim to know whether it is right for anyone else to invest their energy towards political change or instead towards philosopical thoughts concerning the state we are in.
But one always has oneself, no matter the state of the world. It is always possible to bring about a hopeful state of mind - maybe a bit like some prisoners that has to survive being in isolation for years on end and do this with dignity (Mandela etc).

Fair enough, but if you don't contribute to the new society, someone else will. That person might be a forum member or a bandit or anything in between. See my point?

This seems to imply that I don't take an interest in society. I do take an interest in society - I am just practicing detachment from it all.

We have already established that self work is vital.

Doesn't hurt to repeat it :). I started my involement in this thread because I thought that an outward focus on races and organizing people might be the wrong way to invest one's energy. I do not claim to know what is best for you :).

I don't really understand why you brought nordics up again, I clearly stated that race, from the point of view of The Work is a non-issue.

Agreed :)

 

[fabric]

P.S. Sorry guys,i'm a bit thick and still don't get how the quote/reply thing works.

Well, it can be a bit confusing when there's tons of text to try and sort out. Ant22 had a good idea with the screenshot so here's an example of a reply to parts of a text. I used Hithere's latest to give you a bit of an idea of what it should look like. See attached screenshots for what it looks like in the editor... hope it's a little clearer! You can also have a look through here.

Note this is just one way of doing it, and if you are responding to one person. If responding to several people, it's a bit different since you need to keep track who is in the "quote author=" field.

I think in smaller terms - I am not looking for a leader in my everyday life, but try to be as conscious as can be on my own. If I were to look for leadership instead of relying on myself that would impair my ability to be autonomous.

Your response goes here, after the "/quote"

This seems to imply that you have a hope that these kinds of efforts will lead to better organization of society, which is where I do not follow.
I try to live justly in everyday life, but I find it hard to believe that this will improve matters significantly in 3D. I think we are moving in the wrong direction as a whole, and therefore my efforts are increasingly orientated inwards and towards my immediate surroundings.

Your response goes here, after the "/quote"

I think the will to fight will be there all by itself, should the situation arise :). But that is more of a fight/fright/flight reaction to my eyes - it is not something I spend a lot of time contemplating.

Your response goes here, after the "/quote" (and so on for each section you want to address)

 

[JGeropoulas]

Fabric you beat me to it! You did a great job explaining this coding/editing technique, which results in such nice, concise, focused replies here on the Forum. It would great if everyone adopted this rather than including entire previous posts, which is more tedious to read through.

Maybe your screenshots could be added as a suggestion or tutorial included the New Members thread somewhere.

I'd add, if this technique is still confusing to some, they could simply create a fresh "Reply", then cut/paste into it, relevant quotes from previous posts.

 

[Curious Beagle]

Here is the way I understand it from C's interpretation:

Physical being is actually the illusion. The trouble in the world (war, bad weather, disaster etc) is caused by accumulation of reservoir of bad energy among the inner soul (from emotion, mind and body energy flow). When we are still young in our soul development things seems random eventually we begin to grasp the challenges we face is actually telling us the lessons we need to learn.

Since we are fallen spirit on the path of coming home the only way to do that is self development and purification to raise our vibration. Remember the step from being to mind to spiritual awareness. Lowest dimension like mineral, plant, etc just being. We are higher up in the middle are capable to think/mind to learn the lesson of simple understanding and cause/effect. That is why we have time if we are fully aware of our consequences (harmful) of our action then there is no need of linear time. The distortion (imbalance) is usually by us putting mask because we want to be accepted by other while aware we are just not as loving as our ideal.

We focus too much on our outer realities instead of improving our inner self. Sure building great civilization is an attempt to solve our difficulties while in this dimension unless our inner self is growing in harmony with our outer action we will just be acting like destructive locus such as destruction of environment, waste of natural resource, war, poverty, etc. Technology like nuclear will be use for weapon instead of energy, transportation/space exploration, etc.

 

[Emet-Selch]

I think STS forces and cointelpro are the real bad stuff in our world

 

[goyacobol]

I think STS forces and cointelpro are the real bad stuff in our world

You can say that for sure.

I would just like for all participants to think about what is wrong with our world and what they would like to see happen to make it right.

 

[PERLOU]

Merci pour ce fil que je découvre et tous vos partages si intéressants...
Je me pose une question, tout cela n'est-il pas de l'anticipation ?...

Thank you for this thread that I'm discovering and all your so interesting sharing...
I'm wondering, isn't it all anticipation?...

 

[Maat]

Merci pour ce fil que je découvre et tous vos partages si intéressants...
Je me pose une question, tout cela n'est-il pas de l'anticipation ?...

Thank you for this thread that I'm discovering and all your so interesting sharing...
I'm wondering, isn't it all anticipation?...

I will say that anticipation it's more something like "I'm SURE it is going/must be this way or that way" Throwing ideas with an open mind is not anticipation, IMHO.