Creating a New World

[Psalehesost]

First of all, let's not get bogged down in ideas of being in a 4D reality, let's just stick to what we know: this reality.

There are those who have said that this reality is STS by nature and can't be any other way, but is that necessarily so? The Cs have said that there was once a time when the 3D world was aligned with 4D STO. There have been a few hints about such a world, but we are encouraged to try to figure it out for ourselves.

I included that (the idea of 3D STO) in my thoughts as being a different realm of sorts (or different "mode" for the world to be in), in that it would be an entirely different mode of existence wherein probably little of what goes for 3D STS in terms of organizing a society would apply.

I should also note that some of the mental resistance expressed in the ideas of my previous post came along with the surfacing while thinking and writing of a large sludge (not strongly felt, but more indirectly sensed) of bitter emotional remnants (I think I managed to keep it from creeping into my wording) previously bottled up, apparently triggered by the subject and considering your initial post. I have since been breathing and cleaning myself sufficiently that this layer of garbage seems to be removed.


Moving on to the next idea (a much clearer request, and more easy to work with as it is not concerned with a new world order but rather simply with a small society):

How about we imagine a group of people who get together in a forest clearing and decide that they are going to be a society. Say there is 200 of them. [...] How will they organize themselves? Who does what? How is value attributed to what is done?

I agree with the basic ideas of people of different skills organizing to take care of different tasks. Moving on to the point where house-building was considered:

I'm probably going to get in trouble for this, but I'm wondering...if we are only starting with around 200 people, are we ready to settle down and build a lot of houses already? We have hunters, gathers and scouts, but how soon before the hunting and gathering perimeter becomes so expanded that it takes longer and longer to return with food, etc?

Should the community consider being more mobile awhile longer using sturdy, temporary shelters and amenities?

I know my knowledge is limited here and there will be people for whom it would be very difficult to be constantly on the move, so I don't really know. :(

This is an interesting point, and it ties into what "model" the society should follow: House-building and permanent living places seem to go more together with the agrarian model as opposed to the hunter-gatherer model. It seems that one or the other will eventually have to be chosen: In being settled down, eventually cultivating the land to get the required food - Or in not settling down, be a wandering people of hunter-gatherers.

Perhaps a very small town with a permanent living place for those who cannot be on the move could be considered, where the rest of the people wander in the wider surrounding areas and periodically return to help keep it stocked, exchanging needed services with those living behind?

 

[Andrew]

So we have the aged and infirm housed and cared for. The next house for a doctor and anyone requiring medical treatment. Perhaps the next house could be a school house where the children could be taught by the elders and housed during the day while their mothers are out working for the whole of the group? And when this room was not in session it would be able to house several other people, particularly the women with children at the same time until permanent residences are established for them.

I feel having the women and children taken care of is as high a priority as making sure the Aged/infirm, and Doctor are taken care of. Once the elders, doctors, and mothers with children are cared for then perhaps we can start placing the rest into homes.

If we were to let the universe decide who is to become housed first, it would have to be understood at a group level that this is what was being done. Otherwise I see jealousy coming into play and that would begin to create problems amongst the group.


I also saw that Farmers/Gardner's were mentioned in this 'imaginary' group of ours. This being the case I feel it would be essential to have these groups of people to begin planting crops immediately. I personally have no knowledge of gardening or growing crops so I'm not sure how this would work but it would be able to sustain our group in the long-run.

We have hunters, gathers and scouts, but how soon before the hunting and gathering perimeter becomes so expanded that it takes longer and longer to return with food, etc?

Should the community consider being more mobile awhile longer using sturdy, temporary shelters and amenities?

I know my knowledge is limited here and there will be people for whom it would be very difficult to be constantly on the move, so I don't really know. :(

This is also a particularly good point. I feel this would be good reasoning to start cultivating the land for food asap.

 

[ana]

This is something that bothers me, is that really a need to separate people doing the activities unless it is really necessary ?

To me it makes sense to have common places and private places but created in function of the families and not in function of the skills.

I think you have a point, Tigersoap. If we are to prioritize who gets private living space first, and I am assuming (perhaps incorrectly?) that all adults/families who desire private living space will eventually be accomodated, it should be due to need. So, with this in mind, I think another factor to be considered is whether the individual is an introvert or extrovert. Using the definition of introvert to mean those who rejuvenate their energy/spirit by spending time alone as opposed to the extrovert who is rejuvenated by being with others, it would seem that privacy would be quite a factor in the well being of the introvert while the extrovert might be completely content to wait for more private housing. Just a thought.

As I see it thinking in terms of introverted/extroverted individuals is restricting the possibility that maybe in an STO world individuals are constantly growing non limited for any definition or encasement, no definitive roles, behaviours or tasks, maybe everything is continually changing and growing, each individual, the group, the enviroment as a whole.

I imagine a world in wich beings are totally aware/in contact with enviroment/nature, so they are continuously supplied, no hunger, no disease, only the pure freedom for them to continuosly grow.

Is this imagining too much?

 

[Laura]

Some of ya'll really need to stop and REALLY imagine yourselves in this situation. You are bringing in all kinds of contexts that simply do not apply to the given situation which, I should add, is a very real possibility. You are skipping all kinds of steps, all kinds of critical considerations that relate to SURVIVAL.

So, again, back up, regroup yourselves in that clearing where you have almost nothing but the people and their skills vis a vis the environment.

SURVIVAL, people!

And from such a situation, principles can be extracted.

 

[Laura]

I think that after the one doing the hard physical labor have received their houses, the people doing the cooking should be next.

This is something that bothers me, is that really a need to separate people doing the activities unless it is really necessary ?

Remember: External consideration which includes a knowledge of human beings, their traits, needs, etc.

To me it makes sense to have common places and private places but created in function of the families and not in function of the skills.

You are forgetting the situation at hand: one of survival. What to do FIRST, then SECOND, then THIRD, and so forth. Making private spaces for families is NOT at the top of survival priorities.

I think there is now too much emphasis in terms of skills/house.

If you think that leaving it there is all there is, you aren't thinking.

For example, a single only woman's house (or in couple when other things needs to be done between women only) makes sense as does a single men's quarter but not because of the skills but more because of social interaction dynamics.

These people don't have time to worry about that yet, they are prioritizing to SURVIVE. Why are so many of you just skipping over the lesson here? Imposing your wants and needs from the comfort of your homes on a group of survivors in a forest clearing who, recall, don't have shelter, don't have food, and need to rebuild from scratch?

What "social dynamics" are you talking about?

This is SURVIVAL!

Who the heck cares about single women's houses or family houses when being able to survive at all is the priority right now?

That's what benefited the psychopaths for millenium, separation based on class or skills (even though some people have indeed different capacities, everyone should be considered able and equal to do things in regards of his/her own capacities but not with an arbitrary standard based solely on the gender or the stronger osit.)

Nobody is saying that what is done immediately for survival is the long term plan!

Remember the CONTEXT!

Skills are only important in the context of how does it help everyone in the "new tribe", I know it is not an easy task for modern society man to achieve but it is worth re-thinking our own concept of class and genders osit.

Skills are important in the context of SURVIVAL. And from consideration of these matters, general principles about the ordering of society can be extracted that are based on human nature and what is really important in life.

I do hope that you are watching "The Trap" right now. Quite a few of you really need it...

 

[Buddy]

Well, I'm watching the recommended videos at the moment, so it will take me some time to return to the thread. The documentary so far is fascinating.

--edit: I might add that under the circumstances, the only thing I can say for certain is that I would run around seeing who needs help on a priority basis, starteing with life (health, etc) and just doing whatever I can find to do to make something easier for someone. I can see I was skipping ahead myself.

 

[Leo40]

If I understand the scenario correctly, then any number of people without preparation or training
finding themselves in this situation, will not survive.
Therefore preparation, physically. mentally and spiritually is the first priority.
This can be accomplished anywhere on this world; in fact many people are doing just that.
They are forming co-operative groups in their communities, bypassing to a large extent
any contact with establishment.
Knowing that the established structures are crumbling, i.e. monetary system, food supply,
transportation, government they realize that they need to take care of themselves.
Any energies directed at changing the existing system IMO is a complete waste.
From some threads I gather that some members have already established contacts in their
communities. In my county there are food co-ops. and some CSA's (Community Supported Agriculture).
This trnd must be encouraged to achieve local selfsufficiency.
As I mentioned in a previous posting the key is co-operation which in my limited understanding
is a STO principle.

 

[Kel]

I have actually thought about this scenario a lot over the last few years because something inside me tells me that this could be a REAL situation at any time.

Survival.

First and foremost is WATER. You've got to find a good source and a way to purify it.

2nd is shelter and warmth. There are many ways shelter can be done on a temporary basis. Fire comes next, not only for warmth and some comfort, but also for purifying water and cooking food.

3rd is food. Sorry, but it's unlikely you'll have any success feeding 200 people from forage in the woods. Berries, nuts and roots nuts are only in season for a short time and they certainly don't go very far. Vegetables are great, but that could take several months if not a year to get producing and the question of where you're gonna get the seeds for your garden is another factor. Fishing and hunting will be required if you don't want everyone to starve. I don't like to kill animals for food either, but I'll tell you what, I can imagine that that principal will quickly change if I'm hungry enough and/or my kids are starving.

When it's a question of pure survival, I think people change. Some will become inspired and be capable to doing much more than they had otherwise imagined. Some will become immobilized and become dumber than a doornail. You'll need leaders and soothers and problem solvers.

 

[Laura]

I have actually thought about this scenario a lot over the last few years because something inside me tells me that this could be a REAL situation at any time.

Me too. And I've also thought deeply about the early "sorting" out of priorities and how things are done as the seeds of the later society. That's why these things are important to consider.

Survival.

First and foremost is WATER. You've got to find a good source and a way to purify it.

2nd is shelter and warmth. There are many ways shelter can be done on a temporary basis. Fire comes next, not only for warmth and some comfort, but also for purifying water and cooking food.

3rd is food. Sorry, but it's unlikely you'll have any success feeding 200 people from forage in the woods. Berries, nuts and roots nuts are only in season for a short time and they certainly don't go very far. Vegetables are great, but that could take several months if not a year to get producing and the question of where you're gonna get the seeds for your garden is another factor. Fishing and hunting will be required if you don't want everyone to starve. I don't like to kill animals for food either, but I'll tell you what, I can imagine that that principal will quickly change if I'm hungry enough and/or my kids are starving.

Exactly. That's why I say it is so interesting that most people - even the usually very advanced and creative members of this forum - are still projecting their own wants/needs onto such a situation and not really using their minds as they were designed to be used: to imagine and figure out situations in advance, in a mentally reflective way that has some basis in a reality construct that is accurately mapped.

Being able to do this might be a crucial skill at some point.

When it's a question of pure survival, I think people change. Some will become inspired and be capable to doing much more than they had otherwise imagined. Some will become immobilized and become dumber than a doornail. You'll need leaders and soothers and problem solvers.

Exactly.

 

[outcydr]

GotoGo
(I think TV series 'Lost' describes very well about such human 'mechanical' dynamics when people are lost in an island. IMO)

'Gilligan's Island' is what had popped into my mind. Go figure. ;D

What are the unknowns? Is there any dangers we are unaware of? Are there other survivor groups? Maybe hostile?

 

[gotogo]

Let's slow down a little bit and stick with our little nascent society in the forest clearing until we can extract some principles from what we have created/observed, okay?

Meanwhile, it would be helpful if ya'll would take a little break to watch "The Trap" - a documentary series by Adam Curtis. I know parts I and II are available on youtube, and probably part III as well. Just put it in google and you should find it easily.

It's a shocking film... about social issues... and how wrong things can go when the ideas/theories of pathologicals are taken as legal tender and widely disseminated in our world as the model of reality.

After watching this, maybe we'll think about this world we are creating -virtual though it may be - in a different way?

Well, I'm watching the recommended videos at the moment, so it will take me some time to return to the thread. The documentary so far is fascinating.

Same here, it is fascinating...

FWIW, according to The Trap (television documentary series), the order is:

2 Episodes
* 2.1 1. "-flick- You Buddy" (11 March 2007)
* 2.2 2. "The Lonely Robot" (18 March 2007)
* 2.3 3. "We Will Force You To Be Free" (25 March 2007)

(I watched "The Lonely Robot" 1/6 and "We Will Force You To Be Free" 1/6 and 2/6 in YouTube but not sure which is parts I and II so I checked wikipedia)

The part I - The Trap - "-flick- You Buddy!" - 1/6 (Buddy, no offense! ) was actually not picked up by the initial search of "The Trap" so I thought it is worth to mention that.

 

[Laura]

Now, just so ya'll know, I also had problems with getting my mind to work properly and a big part of my interaction with the Cs was this process of re-wiring that involved breaking things down and moving along step by step with care. There are three exchanges with the Cs that never leave my mind and exemplify this process:

23 July 95

A: Now do you see the benefit in slowing down and not having
prejudices when asking questions of great import? You see
when you speed too quickly in the process of learning and
gathering knowledge, it is like skipping down the road
without pausing to reflect on the ground beneath you. One
misses the gold coins and the gemstones contained within
the cracks in the road.

24 September 95

....herein lies the reason why you need a
review. You see, you have some gaps in your knowledge
base which are caused by channeling, absorbing and
analyzing information out of sequence with what we have
given you and mixing it all together!
Q: (L) Okay, what's my problem?
A: You are doing wonderfully, my dear, but it is difficult
for you to keep up this way, because your natural drive
for the truth makes you impatient, and therefore you tend
to fill in the gaps with simple reasoning and assumptions.
While these are often correct, they can tend to allow you
to get ahead of yourself.

9 Dec 95

Q: (L) That's all fine and good. But, just exactly what is
the mission?
A: You are awakening to it just fine, thank you!
Q: (L) Are you saying that all this constant discussing and
taking things apart and talking about them and thinking
about all these things is actually getting us somewhere?
A: Absolutely!!!!
Q: (L) Well, let's get on with the questions.

Unfortunately, I do not yet have the Cs endless patience... they must have been tearing their hair out with me! (6th density hair, that is!)

 

[Buddy]

Exactly. That's why I say it is so interesting that most people - even the usually very advanced and creative members of this forum - are still projecting their own wants/needs onto such a situation and not really using their minds as they were designed to be used: to imagine and figure out situations in advance, in a mentally reflective way that has some basis in a reality construct that is accurately mapped.

Being able to do this might be a crucial skill at some point.

I am grateful for the opportunity to learn this lesson before it's actually needed. I am only a little way into the 1st video but I'm already sick from the underlying vision of the game theory. I see why the crap is going to collapse.

Those nobel-prize winning equations only quarantee a balance as long as EVERYONE is selfish. There's no room for true co-operation in the psychopath's 'games' - not if you want a 'successful' outcome. That's a useful achille's heel, no?

--edit: keywords=cooperation and trust. Some things that have been said about the need to 'trust' in previous threads are starting to come home.

 

[combsbt]

Should the community consider being more mobile awhile longer using sturdy, temporary shelters and amenities?

This is what i was thinking. We have 200 people in the middle of the woods, nobody said it was good hunting grounds or fertile land. Temporary shelters should be made along side an effort to find the most habitable nearby land. Once an adequate location is agreed on (discussion amongst the group about what constitutes this is necessary), permanent/semi-permanent establishments can then be created. Extra shelter for injured or older people is one priority, along with a sort of infirmary or healing place. Also, I'm surprised nobody mentioned creating some sort of kitchen like establishment. Cooking for 200 people is quite a task, and an extra structure specifically for cooking would probably make that a bit easier.

In the first stages, frustration will be abundant and tempers may flare up... It will be important to help each-other and keep everybody calm.

First and foremost is WATER. You've got to find a good source and a way to purify it.

2nd is shelter and warmth. There are many ways shelter can be done on a temporary basis. Fire comes next, not only for warmth and some comfort, but also for purifying water and cooking food.

3rd is food. Sorry, but it's unlikely you'll have any success feeding 200 people from forage in the woods. Berries, nuts and roots nuts are only in season for a short time and they certainly don't go very far. Vegetables are great, but that could take several months if not a year to get producing and the question of where you're gonna get the seeds for your garden is another factor. Fishing and hunting will be required if you don't want everyone to starve. I don't like to kill animals for food either, but I'll tell you what, I can imagine that that principal will quickly change if I'm hungry enough and/or my kids are starving.

When it's a question of pure survival, I think people change. Some will become inspired and be capable to doing much more than they had otherwise imagined. Some will become immobilized and become dumber than a doornail. You'll need leaders and soothers and problem solvers.

This sounds like a good set of initial priorities to me.

 

[RflctnOfU]

Okay, suppose that is done. Now, it's time to build the next individual house. Who gets it and why?

If the children are taken care of, perhaps the next house could be built for the ones who work the hardest physically each day? After a hard work, they perhaps need the comfort of a house the most. A good night sleep. But who are the ones who work the hardest, the hunters or the builders? Maybe both?

What do others think?

That is definitely a consideration. So, maybe after the house for the doctor, the ones who do the hard, physical labor should be next in line. And if there are several of them, instead of trying to decide who works hardest, that group should let the universe decide by putting a bunch of stones in a jar with one of them having a mark on it. The one who chooses the marked stone gets the next house and the others accept the decision of the universe and wait for the next draw?

Perhaps a rotation system as construction continues with Universe deciding 'first dibs' via the marked rocks idea, continuing the rotation throughout the construction process??

I have actually thought about this scenario a lot over the last few years because something inside me tells me that this could be a REAL situation at any time.

Me too. This 'situation' has been rolling through my head at least since Obama released his book. I've thought about the community in which I am living, and these picturings/images of organizing a 'townhall' style meeting setting down priorities and networking in general have . . . 'plagued' me off and on since, but I feel a scenario requiring people stepping up to the plate, so to speak, are just around the proverbial corner.

I agree with Laura that thinking about this type of thing is important for the psyche to be able to handle the situation without 'cracking' or even maybe 'shattering'. Quite a few of my colleagues, I feel, are psychologically ill equipped to deal with Universe manifesting this type of change - deeply embedded in the 'matrix', if you will. As the C's said 'bad day for Rockefeller, good day for Ghandi'. Unfortunately, I think quite a big chunk of people, especially here in the states will just lose it - As if the psyche as a crystal sphere is dropped and shattered into a billion pieces. Thinking and being prepared for the shock can act as a hardening/softening agent allowing a tough malleability, OSIT.

So, back to our 'mini-city'

We've got gatherers, hunters, medicals, scouts, nurturers, etc sorted out. We've got a big communal shelter, a shelter for the sick and infirm, and more shelters going up. Once a rhythm is started in the community, I think 'apprenticeships' or general education situations where the people who may not have been 'contributing' very much can learn the skills to do so...eg learning about gardening, or shelter building or first-aid...anything that the community as a whole needs - maybe even music lessons by the resident musician.

Kris