Dental Health

[pete02]

Re: Bruxism (teeth grinding)

Interesting topic. I just wanted to add that teeth grinding has also been linked to lack of calcium in the diet and is also a symptom of roundworms.

Funny you should bring this up opossum because I was just reading the "life without bread" thread before and saw that Gonzo had pointed out to one of the other members how calcium wasn't on their list of supplements and realized that its not on mine either. I throw a multi vitamin in each day to make up for anything I might be missing but I suppose its possible its not giving me the amount of calcium I need. I'll have to check out the amount on that bottle but I think I'm gonna try and up my calcium for a while and see what happens.

At first the alignment thing seemed to make more sense to me and it still could very possibly be the problem because my dentist did want to replace it last year but my insurance said it had to be in five years before a replacement could be authorized. He never actually told me why he wanted to replace it but if its because my alignment is not sitting properly then the insurance company and I are gonna go toe to toe until they approve it. However in the meantime a little more calcium in my diet can't hurt until I get back to the dentist and if I'm lucky maybe it will help.

I've been supplementing with 700mg of calcium daily, (which I'm now thinking is way too much), but it doesn't seem to have prevented me from grinding/clenching my teeth at night.

Thanks for the input Scarlet, I don't think it will be very helpful in my case either. I think my problem has definitely more to do with this crown my last dentist put in. It just never has sit properly. However by opossum mentioning it it caused me to bring it up in the 'Life w/o Bread' thread (http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,22916.2895.html) and I've come to find out that it's very possible I'm not getting enough calcium after all. So as chance would have it I am going to start upping my calcium intake for the sake of my bones by consuming more veggies and an occasional fruit. Apparently the supplemental version of calcium is not good for us.

 

[Lilou]

Re: Bruxism (teeth grinding)

[quote author=thorbiorn]
Thank you Lilou, for mentioning the problems with root canals and referring to what Dr Mercola has to say. Now I have read up on this topic – a bit late as I am in the process of getting one done, but then I can have it removed or substituted later.
[/quote]

I was a little freaked out by Dr. Mercola’s article on root canals. My dentist had also read the same article. We had a bit of a laugh about that. He said he didn’t think the data was well correlated and that he would much sooner have a root canal than lose the tooth and have an implant. He was quite shocked that Mercola advocated implants, as all implants will cause bone loss and this is much more problematic long term than a root canal, in his opinion.

The thought of someone drilling a hole in my jaw bone and implanting metal…just doesn’t sound like a good idea, ever! My mother-in-law had some implants a few years ago and she is still suffering. My root canals/crowns are doing great by comparison.

Bruxism apparently can be caused by things other than just a physical alignment issue, such as GI issues. My niece grinds her teeth too and read it was secondary to her Hiatal Hernia. Who woulda guessed?

I have to agree with Nimue, if you grind, best to find a solution before extensive dental restoration is required, or worse, you break your own jaw bone. My husband tells me I am not grinding at night, since wearing the bite splint.

In your case, Pete, it sounds like you can just go to a dentist and have your crown reshaped, if you were not grinding your teeth prior to that. That is a pretty easy fix, without replacing the whole thing. As for calcium supplementation, I’m a bit leary of it. What I have used in the past is the Edgar Cayce recommendation which is called Calcios, available at Baar.com. Cayce claimed this type of calcium is bio-available.

The ingredients are : glycerin, bone meal, sesame seed paste (tahini), brewer’s yeast, hydrochloric acid, honey, lemon oil, pepsin, pancreatin, and potassium iodide. It is a paste, not a pill. FWIW.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

Re: Bruxism (teeth grinding)

Apparently the supplemental version of calcium is not good for us.

Thanks, Pete! Today is the day I quit my extra supplement and just take the 100mg that comes with my multivitamin.

The thought of someone drilling a hole in my jaw bone and implanting metal…just doesn’t sound like a good idea, ever! My mother-in-law had some implants a few years ago and she is still suffering. My root canals/crowns are doing great by comparison.

I used to think that too, but I have three implants replacing my top front teeth that I lost when I was a teenager. (I hit a pole while swinging on a swing.) I had a bridge for years, but it kept falling off and the implants have been wonderful! They cost about twice what some dentists were charging, but the specialists were recommended by my former dentist (a great guy) and they have been priceless. Sure, drilling into my jaw bone while I was awake was not fun, but the procedure itself was painless. I also haven't had any complications, but that's too bad your mother-in-law has.

Bruxism apparently can be caused by things other than just a physical alignment issue, such as GI issues. My niece grinds her teeth too and read it was secondary to her Hiatal Hernia. Who woulda guessed?

Fascinating info, Lilou! Thanks for it!

Also, for people ordering mouth guards, it might be a good idea to make sure the plastic doesn't contain BPA.

 

[hiker]

Re: Bruxism (teeth grinding)

I’ve understood that stress can be one of the reasons that could exacerbate bruxing, but there is a possibility that the main underlying reason for grinding the teeth is simply structural.

Due to different reasons, the maxilla (upper jaw) might not develop to its full potential size:

http://www.westonaprice.org/dentistry/mental-or-dental

Almost invariably a narrow or under-developed maxilla can cause the effect of holding back the lower jaw or the mandible.

If the mandible is held back, this can then cause problems with the temporo-mandibular joint:

When we look at the skull from the profile view we observe the temporo-mandibular joint, the TMJ. Most joints will go through normal hinge motion, and some of them like the shoulder and hip joint will have a rotational motion that is more complex. However, in these joints, the two bony members stay in contact with one another throughout the motion of the joint. The TMJ is unique in that it is designed to provide both hinging and sliding motion. In order to accomplish this compound hinge-and-sliding movement, the TMJ has a disc that slides in concert with the lower jaw or mandible. When the lower jaw is not positioned forward enough, the TM Joints do not develop very well, and the discs can get jammed behind or in front of the joint. They can even become perforated and cause some of the "clicks and pops" that can be heard when people open and close their mouths. Immediately behind the TM Joints we also have the ear canals and important vascular and neurological structures, which can become impinged upon as well.

A video of normal TM joint:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyHGOOhxHGs

A ”clicking” TM joint (where the mandible is held back):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjB01-UIDYc

So the occlusion, due to underdeveloped maxilla and dental arches, ”pushes” the mandible back, and the disc ”clicks out of place” as can be seen in the second video above. (As the person opens his/ hers mouth, the mandible is then ”free” to go down and front, and the disc now clicks in to its proper position.)

As the disc is out of place and the mandibular condyle is pressed up and back in the occluded position of the teeth, the muscles of the occlusion/ muscles attaching to the joint area are chronically tense. Often the person in this situation grinds the teeth to kind of ”release the tension”. Stress, trauma, other factors can worsen the bruxing, but there very often is a joint problem behind the phenomenon.

For those having problems with bruxing, a splint can bring relief. A more permanent way is to orthopedically develop the dental arches so that the position of the mandible is improved and the joints can function in a normal way.

Some pictures of the arch development (from http://www.icnr.com/cs/cs_05.html):

Maxilla before treatment:

Maxilla after treatment:

Unfortunately these methods are not included in the basic education of the dental schools yet. The ”mainstream” does not actually acknowledge widely at the moment, that the arches can in fact be developed (even in adults).


http://www.tripleolab.com/appliances.html (click "Williams")

There is a great deal of controversy within the profession as to the success or failure of arch development, sometimes mistakenly referred to as arch expansion. It is this author’s opinion that this subject is well addressed in the text by Enlow and Hans entitled “Essentials of Facial Growth” published by Saunders, ISBN 0-7216-6106-8.

The following observations are clearly stated in this text:

1. The body of the maxilla, as well as the dental alveolar base upon the maxilla, is comprised of dermal bone which has developed from the ectoderm. Dermal bone growth is primarily driven by function, not by genes.
2. The body of the mandible is comprised of chondral bone which has developed from the mesoderm. Chondral bone growth is primarily driven by genes, not by function.
3. The dental alveolar base upon the mandible is dermal bone and thus effected by function not by genes.
These concepts form the foundation of functional orthopedic and orthodontic therapy. They also provide the clinician with the insight to diagnose and treat growth related malocclusions.

The interested professionals have to be active and attend appropriate post graduate courses to gain knowledge about the matter (I have been doing this myself).

It is quite interesting that the underdevelopment of the maxilla/ dental arches can cause other problems as well, in addition to bruxing. One is impaired nasal breathing, as I mentioned on the EE thread http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,12837.msg323353.html#msg323353

Also there can be other ailments:

http://www.westonaprice.org/dentistry/mental-or-dental

Immediately behind the TM Joints we also have the ear canals and important vascular and neurological structures, which can become impinged upon as well.

If the mandibular condyle severely compresses these structures, tinnitus, vertigo and even Meniere’s disease -type of symptoms can be present:

http://tmjstack.com/

There’s some info on the subject also on these websites:

www.cfoo.com
www.iaortho.org
www.smilepage.com
www.tripleodentallabs.com/patient_info.htm
http://www.jawache.com/

 

[truth seeker]

Re: Bruxism (teeth grinding)

Interesting thread. I've never experienced bruxism but from what I'm currently reading think that the idea of trauma (whether physical - not necessarily related directly to the teeth - or emotional) is probably quite valid. I found a couple of links that speak of somatic therapies. I'm not sure if these would work but may be worth considering for some:

Conditioning Influences

The jaw muscles, like all the the muscles of the body, are subject to control by conditioned postural reflexes, which affect chewing and biting movements. The reason people don't go around slack-jawed and drooling, for example, is that a conditioned postural reflex causes the muscles of biting and chewing always to remain slightly tensed, keeping their jaws closed.

People's jaw muscles are always more or less tense, even when they are asleep -- but the norm is very mildly tense -- just enough to keep the mouth closed and lips together.

The degree of tension people hold is a matter of conditioning.

For brevity, I'll discuss only conditions that lead to TMJ/bruxism and not the normal development of muscle tone in the muscles of biting and chewing.

These influences fall into two categories:

Emotional Stress
Physical Trauma

I can't say from empirical studies which of these two influences is the more prevalent, but from my clinical experience, I would say that physical trauma (and tooth and jaw pain -- which induces people to change their biting and chewing actions, and which becomes habitual) is the more common causes of TMJ Syndrome, and also dental surgery, itself. (Consider the jaw soreness that commonly follows dental fillings, crowns, root canals, etc. -- soreness that may last for days.)

Emotional Stress

Ever heard the expressions, "Bite your tongue"? "Grit Your Teeth"? "Bite the Bullet"? "Hold your tongue"? "Bite the Big One"? They all have something in common, don't they? What is that?

To someone who regularly represses emotion or the urge to say something, these expressions have literal meaning.

Such repression, over time, manifests as tension held in the muscles of speech -- in the jaws, mouth, neck, face, and back -- the same as the muscles of biting and chewing.

Physical Trauma

Although people experience trauma to the jaws through falls, blows, and motor vehicle accidents, the most common form of physical trauma (other than dental disease) is dentistry, itself, and it's unavoidable. Dental surgery is traumatic. The relevant term is "iatrogenic" -- which means "caused as a side-effect of treatment". Every dental procedure (and every surgical procedure) should be followed by a process for dispeling the reflexive guarding triggered by the procedure. (See the video.)

No doubt, this assertion will cause much distress among dentists, and I regret that, but how can we escape that conclusion?

Consider the experience of dentistry, both during and after dental surgery (fillings, root canal work, implants, cosmetic dentistry, crown installation, injections of anaesthetic, even routine cleanings and examinations). Consider the response we have to that pain or even the expectation of pain: we cringe.

We may think such cringing to be momentary, but consider the intensity of dental surgery; it leaves intense memory impressions on the nervous system evident as patterns of tension. (Who's relaxed going to the dentist? -- or coming out of the dentist's office?) The physical after-effects show up as tension in the jaws and neck, and often in the spinal musculature, as well -- and as a host of other symptoms.

Let's go back to our fond memories of dentistry.

If you've observed your physical reactions in the dentist's surgery station, you may have noticed that during probing of a tooth for decay (with that sharp, hooked probe they use), you tighten not just your jaw (can you feel it?) and your neck muscles, but also the muscles of breathing, your hands, and even your legs. It's an effort to remain lying down in the surgery station when, bodily, you want to get up and get away from those instruments.

With procedures such as fillings, root canal surgery, implants and crown installations, the muscular responses are more specific and more intense. For teeth near the back of the jaws, we tense the muscles nearer the back of our neck; for teeth near the front of the jaws, we tense the muscles closer the front of the throat, floor of the mouth and tongue.

This reflexive response has a name: Trauma Reflex.

Trauma Reflex is the universal, involuntary response to pain and to expectation of pain.

It gets triggered in relation to the location of the pain and to our position at the time of pain. Muscular tensions form as an action of withdrawing, avoiding, or escaping the source of pain.

In dentistry, with the head commonly turned to one side, in addition to the simple trauma reflex associated with pain, we have the involvement of our sense of position, and not just the muscles of the jaws are involved, but also those of the neck, shoulders, spine.

All of these conditions combine into an experience that goes into memory with such intensity that it modifies or entirely displaces our sense of normal movement and position. We forget free movement and instead become habituated or adapted to the memory of the trauma (whether of dental work or of some other trauma involving teeth or jaws). Our neuro-muscular system acts as if the trauma is still happening, even though, to our conscious minds, it is long past, and the way it acts as if the trauma is still happening is by tightening the muscles that close the jaws.

Since accidents and surgeries address teeth at one side of the jaws or the other, the tensions occur on one side of the jaws or the other. Thus, the symptoms of such tension -- jaw pain, bite deviations, and earaches -- tend to be one-sided or to exist on one side more than on the other.

_http://www.somatics.com/TMJ%20Causes.htm

Here's another that suggests "somatic experencing" as well as cranio-sacral therapy and suggests a link between sleep apnea, tinnitus and bruxism:

_https://naturalhealingblog.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/the-dreaded-apnea-bruxism-tinnitus-trio/

Personally, I don't know that extra calcium specifically would relieve the problem as others have said.

Another thought I had that may be causing problems for some is that this may be a result of gut issues so perhaps those that don't fall into the above categories may want to consider doing further testing. Here's one forumites experience.:

By painful trial-and-error I've discovered that my system cannot
tolerate certain foods, nighttime jaw-clenching being one of the
symptoms. Others, that I've found it maybe too easy to ignore, are
sensations of bloating, and diffuse or general abdominal irritation.

The prime suspect is "gluten sensitivity" -- see WSJ.com/Wellness for
a recent article by Melinda Beck. Furthermore, all molecules related
to gluten are suspect: gliadin, glutenin, and so on. So, I've dropped
oats from my diet in addition to wheat and barley.

Also suspect are other hard-to-digest molecules:
* lactose (though low-lactose or goat's milk yogurt/kefir may
actually be beneficial)
* overheated meat or cooking oil
* saturated fats -- those that are solid at room temperature
* eggs
* all other true, monocot cereals, including corn and rice, although
I've not yet eliminated these.

There are a couple of aggravating factors, apart from choice of foodstuff:
* Alcohol puts gluten into solution and makes it more effective at
invading gut tissue, as noted in some of the research. I can
confirm this from firsthand anecdote -- beer and pizza are a deadly
combination.
* Overeating -- triggers my own bruxism even in the absence of gluten.

So, it seems there's some sort of feedback from distress in the gut, via the
enteric nervous system, to the jaw's motor function. Would be grateful
for any leads to medical research in this area.

Following the above guidelines, I've been tooth-pain free for a week
now, and it's a better world to live in.

_http://www.healthboards.com/boards/tmj-disorder-temporomandibular-joint/890076-found-control-my-bruxism-symptoms.html

I've been coming across some info on magnesium's effects on bruxism. Still searching for better scientific info. If it does indeed help, then the intake of calcium would be inhibiting any positive effects of mag:

_http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2130443

Not sure if any/all of that helps. For what it's worth.

edit: removed a sentence for clarification and added extra link.

 

[Lilou]

Re: Bruxism (teeth grinding)

I saw my dentist again two days ago. He was quite impressed with my progress - said I was "ahead of schedule" and that my jaw is aligned vertically. Now he will work on getting the lateral movement smooth. Great, right?

Then he threw me for a loop by suggesting that I need to replace both of my crowns and have up to 4 more teeth crowned! What??? I told him that was not likely to happen. I do not think it is necessary to take perfectly healthy teeth, grind them down to a post and put a crown over them!

He then suggested he may have to do some bonding to raise the height of a tooth...so I'll see what he has to say at my next visit in three days. In the mean time, I will seek a second opinion from my family dentist, because I think the specialist was just hoping to make a bunch of money off me - of course, he wants to do gold crowns.

 

[ROEL]

Re: Bruxism (teeth grinding)

Perhaps thinking about the symbolic meanings of teeth problems or grinding will be helpful as well. They can be found in this thread made by Endymion. I'll repost a part of it here:

Teeth represent decisions.
Problems with teeth: longstanding indecisiveness. Inability to break down ideas for analysis and decisions.

Bruxism, or grinding of the teeth, generally occurs during sleep as the mind ruminates about all the anger and tension that you kept inside during your waking hours. […] You must decide to handle this anger before it becomes a bigger problem than simple bruxism.

Totally agree with this angle. Y experience bruxism in an "on and off" manner. To me it makes sense that it relates to states of mind brought about by circumstances in life, when you can't find resolution to problems that also can wake you up any moment during your night's sleep in addition to the teeth grinding.

 

[pete02]

Re: Bruxism (teeth grinding)

I saw my dentist again two days ago. He was quite impressed with my progress - said I was "ahead of schedule" and that my jaw is aligned vertically. Now he will work on getting the lateral movement smooth. Great, right?

Then he threw me for a loop by suggesting that I need to replace both of my crowns and have up to 4 more teeth crowned! What??? I told him that was not likely to happen. I do not think it is necessary to take perfectly healthy teeth, grind them down to a post and put a crown over them!

He then suggested he may have to do some bonding to raise the height of a tooth...so I'll see what he has to say at my next visit in three days. In the mean time, I will seek a second opinion from my family dentist, because I think the specialist was just hoping to make a bunch of money off me - of course, he wants to do gold crowns.

Geez Lilou :O It sounds as if he's definitely looking for a payday. He wants to pretty much rebuild your mouth so everything fits properly but is all that necessary? And gold crowns to top it off? Good luck with your second opinion. I hope you get a better assessment with your family dentist.

 

[ScarletBegonias]

Re: Bruxism (teeth grinding)

I saw my dentist again two days ago. He was quite impressed with my progress - said I was "ahead of schedule" and that my jaw is aligned vertically. Now he will work on getting the lateral movement smooth. Great, right?

Then he threw me for a loop by suggesting that I need to replace both of my crowns and have up to 4 more teeth crowned! What??? I told him that was not likely to happen. I do not think it is necessary to take perfectly healthy teeth, grind them down to a post and put a crown over them!

He then suggested he may have to do some bonding to raise the height of a tooth...so I'll see what he has to say at my next visit in three days. In the mean time, I will seek a second opinion from my family dentist, because I think the specialist was just hoping to make a bunch of money off me - of course, he wants to do gold crowns.

Geez Lilou :O It sounds as if he's definitely looking for a payday. He wants to pretty much rebuild your mouth so everything fits properly but is all that necessary? And gold crowns to top it off? Good luck with your second opinion. I hope you get a better assessment with your family dentist.

When I got a gold crown a few years ago it cost the same as what a porcelain one would, but it may be different with your dentist. Even still though, it does seem like he's fishing for $ and my current dentist did the same thing to me! He wanted to straighten out the teeth in my lower jaw for a very big price (two are pushed together very slightly) and he said this would cure the bruxism. I got the mouth guard (a much cheaper alternative) only after going to the sleep clinic to confirm that they were telling the truth about me grinding. My mom spoke with my old dentist (the "great guy" I referred to earlier) and he told her that so many patients come back to him after being stiffed from dentists who performed unneeded procedures on them. Sheesh, are we dealing with psychopathic dentists here? Hopefully you can find a trustworthy one and I'm considering going back to my old one who is 80 miles away...

So just to note, I'm so happy with my new mouth guard. :D I've had amazing sleep (well, normal, but amazing for me!) for the last four nights and did great last night with half of the melatonin that I usually take. I have more energy now too! I combed through the "Are you getting enough sleep?" thread numerous times looking for clues, but believe I've finally found the answer with this!

Also, thank you Truth Seeker, for posting the info the other day about how we condition the muscles in our jaws. I've been working on relaxing the muscles in my face even more now and I don't know if it will help, but it can't hurt!

 

[Darek]

Re: Teeth Health

I am going to try using the charcoal every day, or I will create a mix of sodium bicarbonate, charcoal and bentonite clay and I will report back on the results.

And how is your teeth today?

 

[zim]

Re: Wisdom teeth. To pull or not to pull. That is a question...

Today was my surgery, It was very difficult since the wisdom teeth was not straight (added a picture as example), the doctor was trying hard to take out the roots and I can say that in a moment I really wanted Dissociate , I was trying to breath but the pain and the movement of my jaw was terrible, the doctor put me "Voltaren" in injection for the pain and it took me the pain away but I would like to know if is good or not ?
I asked some weeks before a DMSO in gel and liquid 90% but it doesn’t arrive yet, it will arrive the next week!!!! And I cannot eat nothing right now (solid) so some advice to eat my grease and have a good immune system, by the way , I didn’t want to take antibiotic sincerely I thought I could damage my system taking that !!! So I wonder If it was a good idea or not?

Thanks for the help and advice for the pain in advance!

 

[Lilou]

Re: Wisdom teeth. To pull or not to pull. That is a question...

Wow, zim. Sorry to hear the surgery was difficult. The voltaren is an anti-inflammatory, so that should help. I would probably continue taking an anti-inflammatory by mouth, such as Ibuprufen, if there is a lot of swelling. Ice is always good too. As for an antibiotic, if the dentist gave you an Rx, I would take that too. You can always re-balance your normal flora in the GI tract with probiotics after the course is completed.

Soft food is a good idea. I'd think bone broth would be the best, as you can drink plenty of fat that way. Hope you are feeling better soon.

 

[Nienna]

Re: Wisdom teeth. To pull or not to pull. That is a question...

Wow, zim. Sorry to hear the surgery was difficult. The voltaren is an anti-inflammatory, so that should help. I would probably continue taking an anti-inflammatory by mouth, such as Ibuprufen, if there is a lot of swelling. Ice is always good too. As for an antibiotic, if the dentist gave you an Rx, I would take that too. You can always re-balance your normal flora in the GI tract with probiotics after the course is completed.

Soft food is a good idea. I'd think bone broth would be the best, as you can drink plenty of fat that way. Hope you are feeling better soon.

I agree with continuing to take both the anti-inflammatory and the antibiotics. Getting an infection in your gums is very bad. As Lilou said, you can straighten out your gut flora afterwards by taking probiotics. And the bone broth is an excellent idea.

Hope you get well soon, zim.

 

[Foxx]

Re: Wisdom teeth. To pull or not to pull. That is a question...

Sounds like an intense experience, zim! Sorry to hear that it was a difficult surgery.

When I had my wisdom teeth pulled (probably at least a decade ago now, at least two were impacted) they gave me something that wasn't exactly general anesthesia but knocked me out. All I remember from it is being basically unconscious and hearing some grinding sound at one point, then regaining consciousness while walking in the hall from the surgery room the post surgery room.

I hope you have a speedy recovery :)

 

[zim]

Re: Wisdom teeth. To pull or not to pull. That is a question...

Thanks Lilou for your advice, for the antibiotic he sent me CLARITROMICINA (Spanish), since I’m allergic to penicillin so I´ll buy it tomorrow to begin the consume

Ice is always good too,

Ok I´ll take ice to put me there
:)