Descriptions of the "afterlife"

Cleo

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
From what I have read about this so far (the book Suicide and the Afterlife - sorry, this is not the exact title, just paraphrased - is still on my to-read-list), suicide is in most instances - but not all - ‘frowned’ upon in the afterlife. The way I see it is that the person wastes a good opportunity to further it’s own advancement.

Also I don’t think that it is only for the “Universe to decide when to recall the soul”. There is free will. While the ‘prospective life’ is designed in broad strokes in the pre-life planning phase, there is a big element of free will about what to do once living the life - otherwise, what would be the point if all was predetermined?
What you wrote above reminded me of a video I watched several months ago on this topic:

 

Cleo

Jedi Council Member
FOTCM Member
Thank you very much for this. The part from 19:00 made me wonder about myself. A lot of food for thoughts.
I went back and checked and I remember the part which started at that point you mentioned stood out to me the most the first time I watched the video. It is the part where he discusses the concept or idea that we pre-chart our life with the help of 'guides' and/or our soul group, and so recognize the potentials that exist before we come here.
 

Ant22

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I'm currently reading Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil and in a chapter titled Uncle Ponto and the Mushroom Souper the author described an exorcism during which the evil spirit being exorcised mentioned a protective intervention by the victim's grandfather. Interestingly enough, the victim never met him becuase the grandfather died before he was born.

The case of possession is an extreme one but it looks like our ancestors are able to provide quite real protection if needed.

I'd like to share some relevant quotes and in order to make the text easier to understand for those who haven't read the book I'll add some explanation:
- The name of the possessed was Jamsie and ever since he was little he kept seeing a face with a "funny look". At times faces of his family members would have that "funny look", at other times he saw it in the faces of strangers.
- When the spirit that harassed Jamsie became unbearable it nearly drove Jamsie to suicide, but before committing the final act Jamsie saw a strange looking Shadow that prevented him from taking that step.
- Ara is Jamsie's father.

Now and then, as he sat beside Ara in the cab, Jamsie was struck by some trait in his father’s face. Once, while he sat in the cab late at night and his father was chatting on the curb with a pimp and two of his girls, Jamsie thought he saw that trait on all four faces as they laughed together as at some joke. The “look” did not frighten him, but it repelled him. At the same time he was fascinated by it. As time went on, he deliberately looked for it.

(...) Two related incidents that happened in 1938 stand out in Jamsie’s memory. With his father and some friends he had gone to see the Brooklyn Dodgers play. It was at a moment toward the end of the game when all the fans were on their feet cheering Cincinnati’s Johnny Vander Meer, who was making baseball history by pitching his second successive no-hit, no-run game. Shouting and cheering like everyone else, Jamsie looked around at the excited crowds. And from deep in the middle of the faces there leaped out at him that “funny-lookin’ face.” It was looking at him. It knew him, he thought. He froze into silence and looked away in panic. Then he glanced back at the spot where he had seen it, but it was gone.

(...) Exactly one week later Jamsie was sitting with Ara in the cab late one night listening to the Louis-Schmelling fight. As the fight reached its climax, Ara’s face became more and more contorted. In the last few moments leading up to Joe Louis’ victory, Jamsie saw on his father’s face a very intense look which was quickly developing into that “funny look.” There was, again, something unhuman about it; and he could not catch sight of any trait which he had always associated with his father’s beloved face. With each of Louis’ blows to Schmelling, and as the voice of the announcer got higher and more excited, the “look” became more apparent on Ara’s face. With the gong and Louis’ victory, the tension broke. The strange look passed quickly, and Ara became normal and composed again.

(...) As time passed, his fear of the “look” began to lessen, but his curiosity was greater. What was that “look”? And how was it that he had seen it at the ball game and then again on his own father’s face, blotting out the kindness and love Jamsie had known there all his life up to that point? And what connection was there between all that and the “look” or “funny-lookin’ face” he used to see as a child?

(...) At the same time, Jamsie was also engaged in a search of a very different kind. Once he set foot in New York again, he caught glimpses of that “look”—in the subway, from the middle of crowds, aloft among the neon signs, in movie houses, and sometimes late at night, before he went to bed and when he stood looking out the window at the lights of Manhattan. And he now felt something else that was new and, in its own way, reassuring: a violent and unconquerable persuasion that he had always known what “it” was, who “it” was. His old fright was transformed into an insatiable urge to remember. If he could only remember what “it” was.

Father Mark, the exorcist, asked the evil spirit about that "funny looking" face during the exorcism and the response was that it was Jamsie's grandfather's effort to warn Jamsie of the danger. The possessing spirit also said that the grandfather was given the role of Jamsie's protector by a being the evil spirit despised. Since this is a Catholic ritual I presume the evil spirit was referring to Jesus.

Unfortunately, the author doesn't explain why Jamsie had the feeling he had always known what the "funny look" was. As the below quotes explain, the evil spirit confessed Jamsie was selected for possession before he was born so maybe this was a memory of the soul that had been warned by the grandfather before incarnating?

Mark fired out a series of questions.
“When did you start working on Jamsie?”
“He was chosen before he was born.”
“When did he know you were after him?”
“He knew long before he knew he knew.”
“How did you gain entry to him?”
“He wanted it. Those who might have taught him otherwise, we corrupted. But he chose to be entered. Only one opposed us.”
“Who?”
“He never knew him.”
“Who?”
“His father’s father. He was given that role by…
” The voice wailed away in the same regretful note of sorrow.
“By whom?” Mark insisted. No answer.
“By whom?” Mark repeated the question, and added: “Or shall I tell you by whom?”
“By that Person who is beyond notice by us. By the Claimer of all adoration. By the one who never received and will never receive our adoration…”
“Did you make Jamsie see the ‘funny-lookin’ face’?”
“No. His protector. We would never frighten him away. We are more powerful than that. It was his protector trying to warn him.”

“Your funny-looking face: what was the purpose of that?”
“The funny-looking face was not our doing. We do not frighten those we prospect.”
“What result was effected by showing Jamsie that face?”
“By it, his protector wished to acquaint him with the face all take on who belong to us…”


(...) "Was it the face that stopped Jamsie from suicide? Answer it!”
“Yes. Ye-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-e-es. (...) It was that face. We are always present when inferiors are about to make a killing.”
“So every time you were present, Jamsie’s protector endeavored to let him see that face?”
There was no answer to this. Mark went to another point. “Why did you allow Jamsie to see the…the…the Shadow?”
(...) “We did not. (...)” The word was a thump of sorrow and regret and dreadful aching.

Mark (...) went on, pressing his questions, still holding the crucifix high.
“Why did a common look exist between the Shadow and Uncle Ponto and Jay Beedem and the pimp and many others; why did a common look exist? (...) Is this another part of your evil stupidity?”
“Beyond our control.
(...) We also…must submit…in material things, we…also bound…Person beneath contempt holds…holds…holds…holds…” (...)

(...) “What do you place in those human beings so that they get that look?” And the voice came rasping out in a slow, steady tone:
“Obedience to the Kingdom. They give their will. We fill the soul. What’s inside peers out willy-nilly…”

It's a speculation on my part but as mentioned earlier in the thread, serving others is a way to progress in the afterlife so asking our ancestors for protection may be giving them an opportunity to develop. The signs of evil interference that Jamie received ware quite drastic, but so were the circumstances that he was in. I wonder if some of us do get little signs or pointers from those on the other side that we often ignore?
 

DianaRose94

Jedi Master
I'm currently reading Malachi Martin's Hostage to the Devil and in a chapter titled Uncle Ponto and the Mushroom Souper the author described an exorcism during which the evil spirit being exorcised mentioned a protective intervention by the victim's grandfather. Interestingly enough, the victim never met him becuase the grandfather died before he was born.

The case of possession is an extreme one but it looks like our ancestors are able to provide quite real protection if needed.

I'd like to share some relevant quotes and in order to make the text easier to understand for those who haven't read the book I'll add some explanation:
- The name of the possessed was Jamsie and ever since he was little he kept seeing a face with a "funny look". At times faces of his family members would have that "funny look", at other times he saw it in the faces of strangers.
- When the spirit that harassed Jamsie became unbearable it nearly drove Jamsie to suicide, but before committing the final act Jamsie saw a strange looking Shadow that prevented him from taking that step.
- Ara is Jamsie's father.




Father Mark, the exorcist, asked the evil spirit about that "funny looking" face during the exorcism and the response was that it was Jamsie's grandfather's effort to warn Jamsie of the danger. The possessing spirit also said that the grandfather was given the role of Jamsie's protector by a being the evil spirit despised. Since this is a Catholic ritual I presume the evil spirit was referring to Jesus.

Unfortunately, the author doesn't explain why Jamsie had the feeling he had always known what the "funny look" was. As the below quotes explain, the evil spirit confessed Jamsie was selected for possession before he was born so maybe this was a memory of the soul that had been warned by the grandfather before incarnating?




It's a speculation on my part but as mentioned earlier in the thread, serving others is a way to progress in the afterlife so asking our ancestors for protection may be giving them an opportunity to develop. The signs of evil interference that Jamie received ware quite drastic, but so were the circumstances that he was in. I wonder if some of us do get little signs or pointers from those on the other side that we often ignore?
I'm thinking of what we refer as coincidences and for people who are very sensitive dreams. Perhaps, they're truly little nudge from the other side to avoid difficult situations or danger to ourselves or whatever. The problem is that how would you interpret those?
 

Corvus

Jedi Council Member
I've read articles like that before. Two, three years ago, I found them interesting and beneficial. But right now, considering how the world is going and the future of humanity, I cannot help feeling like it's kind of a swindle. I'm not saying that if I knew someone suicidal I wouldn't encourage them to stay alive and have a silver lining. However, it's like ok, right now it's not so bad. But next year things are likely going to get dramatically worse and it only goes downhill from there. In ten years, the world could become unrecognisable. Yeah, everything is lesson, so by staying alive the suicidal person get to learn their lessons, but really, there isn't any future.
Also, if there's nothing miraculous about escaping death, there probably isn't something miraculous about living either. Life is just what it is, but there's nothing to it. The only con to suicide is that it's up to the Universe to decide when to recall the soul, not man. Also, from what I found on the forum, suicide sorts of bring bad karma.
Maybe it depends on the situation, sometimes as mentioned above when there is no normal functioning future, surviving in such an enviroment will be only about survival and thus this also would bring karma....like said there are many things that can reorient persons life in many directions because of free will and basicaly no rules....it is easy to see after that in afterlife and be nitty gritty with all the knowledge and knowing available but being here is altogether different game.
 

goyacobol

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Maybe it depends on the situation, sometimes as mentioned above when there is no normal functioning future, surviving in such an enviroment will be only about survival and thus this also would bring karma....like said there are many things that can reorient persons life in many directions because of free will and basicaly no rules....it is easy to see after that in afterlife and be nitty gritty with all the knowledge and knowing available but being here is altogether different game.
I think that may be a good way to think about it @Corvus .

The Cs said there are many circumstances to consider.

Session 7 November 1994:
Q: (L) What happens to people who commit suicide?

A: Varies according to circumstance.

Q: (L) In a general sense, is there some negative karma involved in committing suicide?

A: There can be negative karma involved with many things.

Q: (L) What about the death penalty?

A: Specify.

Q: (L) Is putting a criminal to death the equivalent of reducing society to the level of the criminal?

A: You are all put to death.

Q: (L) What do you mean?

A: In one way or another.

Q: (L) Well, is there any negative karma on society, the judge, the jury, the executioner, if a criminal is brought to trial, found guilty of a heinous crime and then put to death?

A: What about war? What is better? This is open because all are murderers and suicides. It is the supreme lesson you all must learn before you can graduate to ethereal existence. Your thinking is too simplified.

Q: (L) Is there ever a situation where execution helps relieve the criminal of some of his karma that may be caused by the commission of the crime for which he is being executed?

A: No.

Q: (L) Is it better to take a criminal, such as Dahmer, and have all of society support and take care of him?

A: These are all past issues. Will be resolved soon.

Q: (L) Are there any other physical creatures on planet earth which have souls?

A: All do.

Q: (L) Is the human soul different from, say, animal souls?

A: Of course.

Q: (L) Are there any other physical creatures on the earth which have souls like human souls? On the same level, so to speak?

A: No.

Q: (L) Well, I have heard that dolphins, porpoises and whales have very advanced souls. Is that true?

A: All souls are advanced.

Q: (L) But are whales sentient, thinking, self-aware as humans are?

A: Apples and oranges.

Q: (L) Well, since whales are so big, do they have bigger souls?

A: Irrelevant.

Q: (L) Is there some way to communicate with whales or dolphins and can one find a way to translate the differences and have a reasonable, intelligent exchange with a whale or a dolphin or even an elephant?

A: You don't need conversation "with" when a higher telepathic level.

Q: (L) Dolphins and whales communicate telepathically?

A: Yes. So do dogs and cats and snakes etc. etc. only humans have learned the "superior" art of verbal communication.

Q: (L) But, at the same time, verbal communication can be quite limiting, is that correct?

A: That is the point.

Q: (L) So, you were being sarcastic with me, weren't you?

A: Humorous.
 

Oxajil

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
I thought the following video was very interesting. It's great to see these researchers work on topics such as reincarnation, near death experiences, and the like, and I can't imagine how difficult it must be to get funding for these projects, as one of the researchers said: 95% or so of mainstream science discards parapsychological research. The data they are collecting is fascinating. The guy who studies reincarnation cases said that he thinks only a minority reincarnates because of unfinished business, but I think that most of us do reincarnate, but that a minority perhaps can recall past life memories due to various factors. An interesting thing he said was that some birth marks may indicate the entrance and exit wounds of a bullet wound in a past life (if not processed).

And there was this interesting bit on people with dementia: One of the researchers recalled how some patients with dementia, right before they passed away, could speak perfectly and could recall any details and have a normal talk with their loved ones. One person hypothesized that as the brain was shutting down, the spirit/mind manages to come through one last time to say goodbye, or something along those lines.

 

hlat

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
And there was this interesting bit on people with dementia: One of the researchers recalled how some patients with dementia, right before they passed away, could speak perfectly and could recall any details and have a normal talk with their loved ones. One person hypothesized that as the brain was shutting down, the spirit/mind manages to come through one last time to say goodbye, or something along those lines.
Gaby mentioned it and I thought it was really interesting.
Stafford Betty talks about "Terminal Lucidity" in Chapter 9. It's basically when people who have no way to speak or think due to a severe loss of brain function (i.e. advanced Alzheimer's disease) suddenly recover their cognitive abilities and say good to bye to loved ones. Shortly afterwards, they die.
Confirmed and explained by the Cs.
Q: (Gaby) So then how is there terminal lucidity when the brain is not working anymore? Like when a person is dying and they have brain damage, but then they wake up and say goodbye as if nothing is wrong right before they die?

A: When the soul or life force is in the process of separating, it is in a position to escape the restrictions of damaged physiology.

Q: (Joe) Pierre asked about that in a previous session not too long ago. How people have a burst of energy before they die...

(L) What did they say?

(Joe) Pierre threw out the idea and they agreed. Something about information. Do you remember?

(Pierre) Yeah...

(L) Here I think they're saying that when it releases, it can override the restrictions. In fact, probably what the person is experiencing is NOT a revival of the brain, but the manifestation of...

(Joe) There are some crazy examples of that. People who are old and ill and didn't speak for a period of time before they died. And then suddenly they woke up and spoke. But there are other cases of young people who died relatively young who'd never spoken a word in their lives who are more or less in a coma or severely handicapped. They never spoke a coherent word, and then just before they die they speak for the first time in their lives in full, proper language that they never used from the day they were born.

(Pierre) The human being is the marriage of the soul and the physical. Especially people dying, the physiology is impaired. But they're married together, so the physical restricts the soul. But just before death, the soul gets freed from the body. It's not restricted anymore.

(L) And it can turn around and control the body that it wasn't able to do before because it was so tied to it, embedded in it, so to say.

(Pierre) So when you hear someone saying unexpected words, it's not a revival of the body or brain. It's the death of the body and the free soul that finally expresses itself.

(L) And still using the instrument in the same way that, say, mediums do. Only you're using your own body in the way a spirit would use it.

(Joe) While that person was in the body, their brain might have been damaged where they couldn't speak at all.

(L) It's mediumistic use of your own body.

(Andromeda) You're self-possessed! [laughter]

(Pierre) It's a shift from symbiosis of soul and body to channeling.

(L) You're channeling your own soul.

(Chu) It's also more proof that the brain is just an antenna. If you can produce actual speech and your brain is damaged?

(L) It's not all there is. There's something else happening.

(Chu) And the brain is not essential for stuff like speech.

A: You are all on a good way to exploring with faith.
 
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