E-cigarettes: research - experiments - ideas

What are the ingredients of your liquid? Are there any flavours in it?
Good points,

It may be the pod because the one that is in the bottle has been perfectly stable. I have the original bottle that they sent with the vaporesso, which is the Wyte. Natural flavors, Nicotine, vegetable glycerin, propylene glycol.

I am looking to try the ones suggested by ScottD, they seem to be really good, and I will switch the pod and see if I get better results. I presume that contact with the outside world, and the lips can create contamination on the liquid on the pod? not sure.
 
Natural flavors, Nicotine, vegetable glycerin, propylene glycol.

Remarkable! Natural flavours in liquids are rare. Most are synthetic. A pity that it went bad. If you like it give it one more chance in a fresh pod.

I presume that contact with the outside world, and the lips can create contamination on the liquid on the pod?

Yes, the pods are open systems and can be contaminated from the outside. And they are made of plastic mostly, a fertile breeding ground.
 
Help needed

I am reading a Korean science paper on nicotine salts. The text is in English but several tables are in Korean only. I would like to get them translated but couldn't find a way to extract the text. I could download them as png and pdf but cannot copy the text.

Does anybody have an idea?

Korean acid-base.png
 

Attachments

Does anybody have an idea?


This image to text converter seems to do the job: link


칼럼 A2 락트산
4-하이드록시벤조산
프로피온산
글리콜산
칼럼 B2
니코틴산
포름산
아세트산
벤조산
발레르산
살리실산
아세틸살리실산
옥살산
(1:1 및 1:2)
(1:1 및 1:2)
(1:1 및 1:2)
(1:1 및 1:2)
(1:1 및 1:2)
(1:1 및 1:2)
(1:1 및 1:2)
(1:1 및 1:2)
(1:1 및 1:2)
(1:1 및 1:2)
(1:1)
(1:1 및 1:2)
말산
숙신산
타르타르산
푸마르산
레불린산
피루브산
(1:1, 1:1 브릿징됨, 및 1:2)
(1:1, 1:1 브릿징됨, 및 1:2)
(1:1, 1:1 브릿징됨, 및 1:2)
(1:1 및 1:2)
(1:1 및 1:2)
(1:1 및 1:2)
아세토아세트산
(1:1 및 1:2)
시트르산
(1:1 및 1:2)
이소시트르산
(1:1 및 1:2)
아코니트산
(1:1 및 1:2)
프로판-1,2,3-트리카르복실산
(1:1 및 1:2)
트리메스산
(1:1 및 1:2)
글루타르산
3-하이드록시글루타르산
말론산
아디프산
(1:1, 1:1 브릿징됨, 및 1:2) (1:1, 1:1 브릿징됨, 및 1:2)
 
Okay, I made a boo-boo. I started soaking tobacco in PG to make a direct extract, using the method described in the video above where the guy uses cigars. My mistake was I mixed up the bottles and used VG instead of PG!

What have I done? I wonder if this experiment is salvageable?

VG is used to extract constituents in herbal tinctures. I will see if there is any indication that it extracts nicotine.
 
Use of malic acid/malate for DIY nicotine salts

Just a few days ago malic acid looked quite interesting as a component in DIY nicotine salts. Unfortunately it seems to have a negative effect on the binding of nicotine to the acetylcholine receptors, a matter of great importance.

Here is what the KI of my search engine has to say:

Binding of malic acid to nicotine

The binding of malic acid (malic acid) to nicotine is a chemical interaction related to the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nicotinic receptors). These receptors are located at the junctions between nerves and muscles (motor endplates) and in the peripheral nervous system and central nervous system.

Malic acid can bind to the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors by attaching to the same binding sites as nicotine. This occurs because malic acid has a similar structure to nicotine and therefore competitively inhibits nicotine binding. This binding can inhibit the activation of the receptors by nicotine.

I thought it might be of help for you to further search for data on the binding capacity of other acids in the list Chu translated above towards nicotine and its receptors. I searched, also on PubMed but on this question, there are no studies. So I also asked AI (free Chat GPT) about 3 acids from your list:

1. Can the binding of benzoic acid, malic acid, salicylic acid to nicotine inhibit the activation of the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors?

To my surprise the answer was the opposite to your search result. Inhibition highly unlikely. (which would be helpful).
How to procede to verify? Possibly this specific question has not not been researched yet? Are there specific AI apps. for the public accessible that could run a (pharmaceutical) simulation for such a science questions? Then we could compare the interaction of all the acids of the above list with nicotine, if they inhibit or enhance the activation of nAChR?

Although the below chatGPT "answer" has to be prooved or corrected, I became aware - for health reasons - there might be some aspects to be considered to find the most bioavailable substances for the receipe.

You’re asking about the potential for these acids to directly interfere with nicotine’s action at the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors (nAChRs). The short answer is: It’s highly unlikely. Here’s why:

1. Structural Dissimilarity:
  • Nicotine’s Binding Site: The nAChR has a specific binding site designed for nicotine’s unique molecular shape and properties.
  • Acid Structures: benzoic acid, malic acid, and salicylic acid have significantly different molecular structures compared to nicotine. They lack the features necessary to fit into the nicotine binding site on the nAChR.

2. No Evidence of Direct Binding:
  • Scientific Literature: There’s no published scientific evidence to suggest that any of these acids directly bind to nicotine or interfere with its binding to the nAChR.

3. Potential Indirect Effects:
  • While direct binding is unlikely, these acids could potentially have indirect effects on nicotine’s activity. However, these effects are speculative and require further research.
  • Examples:
    • Absorption: These acids could potentially affect the absorption of nicotine in the gastrointestinal tract or lungs, altering the amount that reaches the receptors.
    • Metabolism: They might influence the enzymes involved in nicotine’s metabolism, changing the rate of its breakdown and altering its levels in the body.

Important Points to Consider:
  • Focus of Research: Research on these acids primarily focuses on their safety and potential health effects, rather than their interactions with nicotine at a molecular level.
  • Complex Interactions: The interactions between these acids, nicotine, and the body are complex. More research is needed to fully understand potential indirect effects.

Conclusion:
Based on current scientific knowledge, it’s highly unlikely that these acids can directly bind to nicotine and inhibit its activation of nAChRs. While indirect effects are possible, further research is necessary to understand their significance. If you’re interested in the specific interactions of these acids with nicotine, I recommend consulting with a pharmacologist or researcher specializing in nicotine and its effects. [ And the forum
:-)
]


2. What are the possible indirect effects on nicotine’s activity, such as altering its absorption, distribution, or metabolism of the following acids: benzoic acid, malic acid, salicylic acid?

While direct binding of these acids to nicotine is unlikely, they could potentially have indirect effects on nicotine’s activity. These effects are speculative and require further research to confirm.

Here’s a breakdown of potential indirect effects for each acid:

Benzoic Acid
  • Absorption: Benzoic acid is readily absorbed from the gastrointestinal tract after oral ingestion.
    Metabolism:
  • Primarily used as a preservative in food and drinks.
  • Benzoic acid is mainly metabolized into hippuric acid in the liver. There’s a possibility that it could compete with nicotine for certain metabolic pathways, potentially altering nicotine’s metabolism. However, this interaction is not well-studied.

    [Hippuric acid is also a lab marker, high hA may derive from food, GI bacterial activity, or exposure to the solvent toluene, which is considered a neurotoxin.]
Malic Acid
  • Absorption: Malic acid is generally considered safe for consumption and is unlikely to have a significant impact on nicotine absorption.
  • Metabolic Effects:
  • Found naturally in fruits. Malic acid plays a role in the Krebs cycle, a key metabolic pathway. It’s possible that it might indirectly affect nicotine metabolism by influencing the availability of certain intermediates in the cycle. However, this is highly speculative.
Salicylic Acid
  • Absorption: Salicylic acid might influence nicotine absorption similarly to aspirin, as it can affect the gastrointestinal tract, gastric pH and drug absorption.
  • Metabolism: Salicylic acid could potentially influence the enzymes involved in nicotine metabolism, leading to changes in its breakdown rate.
Important Considerations:
  • Dosage and Route of Administration: The extent of any indirect effect would depend on the dosage and route of administration of these acids.
  • Individual Variability: Individual differences in metabolism and other factors can influence the potential interactions between these acids and nicotine.
  • Further Research: More research is needed to understand the potential indirect interactions between these acids and nicotine. These interactions are complex and may involve multiple factors.
Conclusion:
While these acids are not known to directly bind to nicotine andinhibit its activity, they could potentially have indirect effects by altering its absorption, distribution, or metabolism. However, theseeffects are speculative and require further investigation to confirmtheir significance.

In this AI search, - to be verified - Malic acid is considered as safe because of its role in the Krebs cycle, while bezoic acid "could compete with nicotine for certain metabolic pathways" and Salicylic acid "could potentially influence the enzymes involved in nicotine metabolism, leading to changes in its breakdown rate." I hope some of it adds to the puzzle of the DIY mixture :)
 
I thought it might be of help for you to further search for data on the binding capacity of other acids in the list Chu translated above towards nicotine and its receptors. I searched, also on PubMed but on this question, there are no studies. So I also asked AI (free Chat GPT) about 3 acids from your list:

It does help. Thank you, Breo.

This list shows acids that bind well to nicotine thus making nicotine salts. Interaction with acetylcholine receptors is not being considered.
The list is shrinking rapidly for various reasons:

- some acids are difficult to get for DIY projects
- some others may be just so ok as a salt but harmful as free acid
- some have a tendency to fall out of watery solutions
a.s.o.

1. Can the binding of benzoic acid, malic acid, salicylic acid to nicotine inhibit the activation of the nicotinic acetylcholine receptors?

To my surprise the answer was the opposite to your search result. Inhibition highly unlikely. (which would be helpful).

So, we have two AIs in contradiction on malic acid.

My current understanding is that this will ultimately not be a great problem because

a. malic acid and all other acids bind to a certain docking place at the nicotine molecule. It does not encapsule the nicotine and cannot inhibit the nicotine binding in total

and

b. nicotine is a temporary guest in our bodies and will be absorbed by available pathways within an hour or two. It will not be lost. What may change with the pathways is our vaping/smoking experience.

Although the below chatGPT "answer" has to be prooved or corrected, I became aware - for health reasons - there might be some aspects to be considered to find the most bioavailable substances for the receipe.

Yes and there is another aspect:

- We have some nice nicotine salts
and
- we have some nice forum members
but
- not all nice nicotine salts sit well with all nice forum members...



In this AI search, - to be verified - Malic acid is considered as safe because of its role in the Krebs cycle, while bezoic acid "could compete with nicotine for certain metabolic pathways" and Salicylic acid "could potentially influence the enzymes involved in nicotine metabolism, leading to changes in its breakdown rate." I hope some of it adds to the puzzle of the DIY mixture :)

In my current understanding I consider

- malic acid as "safe" . It is present in tobacco leaves and we have been smoking it for years

- benzoic acid as relatively "safe" even though it may be a bit on the harsh side in vaping(throat hit)

- salicylic acid as relatively "unsafe" because some people do not tolerate it well.

Proposal: despite earlier worries I would like to reappoint malic acid as candidate for(relatively soft) DIY mixtures and keep benzoic acid on the list for the friends of throat hits.
 
I was mistaken. According to him, with the PG soak, most of the nicotine stays in the leaf. He says only trace amounts of nicotine stay in the concentrate - 0.01%. I think he's just trying to get essential oils for flavour.

Yes, this method extracts flavour. If you use vg there will be a problem with filtration. The tiny particles that are extracted will float there endlessly.
 
Probably I smoked excessively yesterday mostly cigarettes' and in between vaping ( in an attempt to get back to vaping) that contributed to sneezing, some running nose, throat closing, heightened alertness and some anxiety.
I remember this post and I started smoking on October 25th, with a few days skipped, mostly just to add it as another spike protein detoxer. But the other day I had a cigarette only 2 hours after the previous (I usually have two 6 hours apart with meals). And although it was relaxing, I felt like it was too much nicotine, but maybe 1-3 hours later.

I had made a grocery run and on my way to stop at another tobacco store I had a black jumping spider appear on my pants. I drifted a little out of the lane, but didn't see it when I stopped. Not sure if it was a sign, but the store I went to had a homeless guy outside. Anyways, when I got home I checked myself for spider bites and took a Liposomal Vitamin C just in case.

But I had smoked in my room twice that day because it was cold outside. And the lingering smoke smell bothered me, so I opened the windows and turned on the air purifier and left for a while. I had burning eyes, a runny nose and was itchy. My neck felt a little puffy or stiff, but I think it was just a muscle knot after massaging it out. Not sure if you can be sensitive to the smoke but not nicotine itself?

But anyways, I find it only takes 3-4 drags before I get a nicotine hit and feel calm and mildly euphoric. But if I take one more after that, I get a heavy feeling, mostly in my legs. And I put some peppermint oil on a paper tip in with organic American Spirit tobacco. I've been tearing off 1/4 to 1/3 of the cigarette after I roll it so I don't waste too much of it.

And I just found out from a vaping video after trying smoking first about 14 years ago (not consistent and only in a couple weeks spurts) that you can inhale with your mouth. I usually just breathe through my nose and exhale through my mouth, but this makes for more "throat hit". So I tried inhaling through the mouth and it's a lot less harsh.

I was wondering what's the longest you've reused tobacco that's been sitting dormant? I have half a pouch maybe from March 2023 when I had last smoked, so it's 20 months old at least. It smells fine and there are no tobacco beetles in it.

But more on the vaping subject, I want to try one of these pod systems so I've read and watched some videos on it. Maybe I'll just have to buy the liquid online with one of those tobacco or cigar flavors, because the local tobacco and vape stores have all of these fruity and candy type flavors. I could do a mint or menthol at most. I'm thinking I want to try nic salts with 1.0 or higher ohm pods so it smokes like a cigarette. XROS 4 might be too fancy, so I'm looking at Luxe Q, QS or Q2, although local shops seem to carry Caliburn and Smok brands.
 
I was wondering what's the longest you've reused tobacco that's been sitting dormant? I have half a pouch maybe from March 2023 when I had last smoked, so it's 20 months old at least. It smells fine and there are no tobacco beetles in it.

I've had tobacco that has been in storage for years, that's been fine, as long as it's not moldy, it sholud be fine, more than likely a little dry, which in turn will make it a bit more harsh. You can just drop a lemon rind in with it or just wet a paper towl with water which will rehydrate it, (it will take half a day or so depending on the amount of tobacco) just be careful not to over do it as it will make the tobacco too moist and harder to smoke.

But more on the vaping subject, I want to try one of these pod systems so I've read and watched some videos on it. Maybe I'll just have to buy the liquid online with one of those tobacco or cigar flavors, because the local tobacco and vape stores have all of these fruity and candy type flavors. I could do a mint or menthol at most. I'm thinking I want to try nic salts with 1.0 or higher ohm pods so it smokes like a cigarette. XROS 4 might be too fancy, so I'm looking at Luxe Q, QS or Q2, although local shops seem to carry Caliburn and Smok brands.

I don't think it really matters which device you use, it does take some time to figure out the settings that work for you, so my advice would be to get something that you can change power settings so you can see which works for you. I have the Luxe XR Max, but I am sure there are cheaper ones out there that will allow you to change the wattage. I generally use around 0.8 - 1.2 ohm coils at 12 - 16 watts FWIW
 
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