Eckart Tolle and Adyashanti

[crazycharlie]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

YES , Laura excellent , I recently learned a new word
"BLISS NINNY" very similar to a pollyanna..
so I was called a negative ninny ,,
( I do not feel alone in this... )

 

[LQB]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book

I've read Tolle's Power of Now and I think its good as far as it goes. Much more powerful are the works of Douglas Harding. Harding does not venture into the details of the environment/territory, but does an excellent job of working the two-way vision in awareness - keeping the object well-grounded in the awareness of self (or the No-Thing at center). My reading of Harding suggests to me that he could not (or would not be allowed to) contribute widely if he did not confine his treatment to the tools associated with bringing awareness at center to experientially what it really is - by observation and inspection.

It is no more negative to point out that the body is loaded with toxins and candida than it is to point out that our society is poisoned by the influence of with psychopaths and other pathologicals. When we talk about what is going on all over the world, we are simply highlighting the symptoms in an effort to get people to see that society is, indeed, toxified! And the symptoms are NOT the disease! But unless a person becomes convinced that they have a sickness by fully experiencing the symptoms and having an educated assessment of those symptoms, they will not know that they have to seek the cure!

But I agree with Laura - a well-equipped "tool belt" alone says nothing about what to apply the tools to. So Harding (by himself) is just as limiting in the same sense (but possibly a good first step). Psychopaths and pathologicals are the reality and their effect is devastating. My own experience here is a good example. Recently I had (and still have) the experience of attack from a husband/wife psychopath team. Learning is very rapid and valuable with such (although "fun" is not a descriptor I would use). Since I had read Ponerology, I knew very early on what I was dealing with - and it modified my approach relative to what I might use with normals (even ponerized). In this situation I was representing a small group of condominium owners and their interests (mine included). What we got were lies upon lies, diversions, attacks, and accusations all wrapped up in the "pristine" image projected by the psychopath. Amazing to watch unfold. But the impact on others was the core of the learning. Two of the owners accepted the diagnosis as a small epiphany and followed up with their own analysis. The others proceeded into denial in favor of that "polluted" image. To give you a feeling for the nature of their response, consider the question "Why can't we all just get along?". I can't think of a more impertinent question for this situation. It is clear to me that this denial cripples them and makes them more vulnerable to the same. Eventually it must surface as warped actions/perceptions facilitating an easy meal for the next predator. This is extremely sad to see. I did learn a few things about how best to deal with direct contact, attacks, etc:

1) Whether the Comms are via e-mail or in person, involve other normal people whenever you can in the exchanges (even if others are just witnesses). It makes a difference by forcing the psychopath to consider the images he has projected to the witnesses or larger group. This can limit the "wiggle room". It also forces subtle but bizarre responses that the witnesses can see for what they are. Just getting others to see what they/you are dealing with is a "win", regardless of how the rest of it goes.

2) Stay very clearly on-subject. Do not be diverted. The psychopath will ignore valid/truthful data. Do the opposite but ignore attempts to divert.

3) Use qualifiers like "It is my/our understanding ...." This can prevent accusations of attack, or make the claim look silly.

4) Stay open and clear and watch for any attempt to press your "buttons". Attempts to turn you to guilt are masterful.

LQB

 

[melatonin]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

I read (well listened - audiobook) to this in the last few weeks.
Hes certainly a very intelligent guy in my opinion.
Overall i think he was saying that most of what we feel and think isnt 'ours', just a reaction to the world around us, and the world is dysfunctional - so we become dysfunctional. And the awareness of this sets us free from it.
I also leant alot about my own behaviour, some which wasnt pleasant to see, but ill learn from it.

 

[Dirk]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

I love his books. Phenomenal.

Yes, it is limited. But what is not? Just a small part of the puzzle.

Yes, it is comforting. But isn't that what we need from time to time? EE is comforting too (I suppose, I don't practise it).

He misses education about psychopathology. If you see him speak he is also kind of a sissy, though kind of funny in his own way. He is definitely not a *strong man* done with the work and he lives in the illusion that whenever he doesn't let his ego be in control everything is fine.

Forget about what his books mean for the outer world, but use it as a tool to overcome your own inner programs. To see what is *you* and what is *not you*.

Everybody has psychopathic (STS) behaviour inside of him or her. Tolle helps you get aware of that. Maybe the only thing where he is mistaken is that it is sort of a disease that can be overcome for everybody, while for some people it cannot be cured and some people consciously choose to strengthen their STS behaviour.

I don't think EVERYTHING is pushed down from the top. Tolle is one of the great influences we have in society and for me it has made a huge impact on who I am nowadays.

 

[anart]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

I love his books. Phenomenal.

Yes, it is limited. But what is not? Just a small part of the puzzle.

Yes, it is comforting. But isn't that what we need from time to time? EE is comforting too (I suppose, I don't practise it).

He misses education about psychopathology. If you see him speak he is also kind of a sissy, though kind of funny in his own way. He is definitely not a *strong man* done with the work and he lives in the illusion that whenever he doesn't let his ego be in control everything is fine.

Forget about what his books mean for the outer world, but use it as a tool to overcome your own inner programs. To see what is *you* and what is *not you*.

Everybody has psychopathic (STS) behaviour inside of him or her. Tolle helps you get aware of that. Maybe the only thing where he is mistaken is that it is sort of a disease that can be overcome for everybody, while for some people it cannot be cured and some people consciously choose to strengthen their STS behaviour.

I don't think EVERYTHING is pushed down from the top. Tolle is one of the great influences we have in society and for me it has made a huge impact on who I am nowadays.

Dirk, it would be really helpful if you could spend some time reading forum topics concerning truth, psychopathology, STS/STO in order to get a sharper perspective on what these things entail.

 

[Dirk]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

I love his books. Phenomenal.

Yes, it is limited. But what is not? Just a small part of the puzzle.

Yes, it is comforting. But isn't that what we need from time to time? EE is comforting too (I suppose, I don't practise it).

He misses education about psychopathology. If you see him speak he is also kind of a sissy, though kind of funny in his own way. He is definitely not a *strong man* done with the work and he lives in the illusion that whenever he doesn't let his ego be in control everything is fine.

Forget about what his books mean for the outer world, but use it as a tool to overcome your own inner programs. To see what is *you* and what is *not you*.

Everybody has psychopathic (STS) behaviour inside of him or her. Tolle helps you get aware of that. Maybe the only thing where he is mistaken is that it is sort of a disease that can be overcome for everybody, while for some people it cannot be cured and some people consciously choose to strengthen their STS behaviour.

I don't think EVERYTHING is pushed down from the top. Tolle is one of the great influences we have in society and for me it has made a huge impact on who I am nowadays.

Dirk, it would be really helpful if you could spend some time reading forum topics concerning truth, psychopathology, STS/STO in order to get a sharper perspective on what these things entail.

Anart, I am and I have. Though I am sure my perspective can still be very much sharpened.

Are you suggesting Tolle is an STS influence? Have you read his books yourself?

 

[Dirk]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

I love his books. Phenomenal.

Yes, it is limited. But what is not? Just a small part of the puzzle.

Yes, it is comforting. But isn't that what we need from time to time? EE is comforting too (I suppose, I don't practise it).

He misses education about psychopathology. If you see him speak he is also kind of a sissy, though kind of funny in his own way. He is definitely not a *strong man* done with the work and he lives in the illusion that whenever he doesn't let his ego be in control everything is fine.

Forget about what his books mean for the outer world, but use it as a tool to overcome your own inner programs. To see what is *you* and what is *not you*.

Everybody has psychopathic (STS) behaviour inside of him or her. Tolle helps you get aware of that. Maybe the only thing where he is mistaken is that it is sort of a disease that can be overcome for everybody, while for some people it cannot be cured and some people consciously choose to strengthen their STS behaviour.

I don't think EVERYTHING is pushed down from the top. Tolle is one of the great influences we have in society and for me it has made a huge impact on who I am nowadays.

Dirk, it would be really helpful if you could spend some time reading forum topics concerning truth, psychopathology, STS/STO in order to get a sharper perspective on what these things entail.

Anart, I am and I have. Though I am sure my perspective can still be very much sharpened.

Are you suggesting Tolle is an STS influence? Have you read his books yourself?

I re-read your other replies in this topic and I see this is indeed what you are referring too.

You call Oprah a sleep-inducing machine. Suppose that is the case, do you think she is aware of that? That she does it consciously? Or is she a sleeping machine herself?

To me it seems like, that she read the book and decided to release it to the public because it made such a big impression on her. I probably would have done a similar thing in her position. Asleep or not.

 

[loreta]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

I read The Power of Now some years ago but it did not wake me up. I'm reading now (almost finished) the book by Laura and Quinn about 9/11 and let me tell you: I am forced to wake up even if I don't want. So now I understand: the study of ponerology is the most important thing to do to understand our reality. I understand when you say that almost all New Age groups are cointelpro. They don't talk about this reality. They just want to give you the sensation that you are in the right road. False! The right road is to study ponerology and the devil in this word.

When I read The Power of Now I thought it was an interesting book and I thought the ultimate book. I hate Oprah so when I knew that she was pushing Mr. Tolle something wrong was in the horizon. Maybe for some people Tolle is sufficient, for that moment in their lives. We can not judge. Accept everyone in their quest at their rhythm. I can not judge, few years ago I was a completely moron. I'm still are one, but a little less... :P

The book of Laura is the beginning of a profound reflexion even if the subject is very sad and depressing. Tolle is for people who doesn't want to confront this dramatic reality. He is part of the system. The system does not want to be studied. Tole is for people who doesn't want to be face to face with the devil.

Mindfulness is a good thing but then is not sufficient. It can help to take out stress, to relax, to be present and that's important, even if we wanted to fight the devil. In that sense I prefer the books of John Kabat-Zinn, he is more objective and he does not carry with him this religious notion that accompany the New Age fanatics. John Kabat talks about compassion and presence and patience with our selves. He is humble and gentle.

Loreta

 

[Beau]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

To me it seems like, that she read the book and decided to release it to the public because it made such a big impression on her. I probably would have done a similar thing in her position. Asleep or not.

I think you're being incredibly naive. Oprah may very well feel that way. The Secret went along a similar path. But the point is that the merits of the book lead people away from truth. Whether she is conscious of this or not is irrelevant. But make no mistake, its "popularity" is not by accident. Ideas don't get mainstream coverage via Oprah if they tell any kind of truth about the nature of our world. So Oprah, whether aware or not, is leading people astray. She would not be where she is if it were otherwise.

 

[Dirk]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

To me it seems like, that she read the book and decided to release it to the public because it made such a big impression on her. I probably would have done a similar thing in her position. Asleep or not.

I think you're being incredibly naive. Oprah may very well feel that way. The Secret went along a similar path. But the point is that the merits of the book lead people away from truth. Whether she is conscious of this or not is irrelevant. But make no mistake, its "popularity" is not by accident. Ideas don't get mainstream coverage via Oprah if they tell any kind of truth about the nature of our world. So Oprah, whether aware or not, is leading people astray. She would not be where she is if it were otherwise.

You think focusing on what you want to achieve in life is a losing strategy? Like setting goals is nonsense, wishful thinking and feeding the illusion?

 

[StrangeCaptain]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

To me it seems like, that she read the book and decided to release it to the public because it made such a big impression on her. I probably would have done a similar thing in her position. Asleep or not.

I think you're being incredibly naive. Oprah may very well feel that way. The Secret went along a similar path. But the point is that the merits of the book lead people away from truth. Whether she is conscious of this or not is irrelevant. But make no mistake, its "popularity" is not by accident. Ideas don't get mainstream coverage via Oprah if they tell any kind of truth about the nature of our world. So Oprah, whether aware or not, is leading people astray. She would not be where she is if it were otherwise.

You think focusing on what you want to achieve in life is a losing strategy? Like setting goals is nonsense, wishful thinking and feeding the illusion?

Dirk, you seem to have a way of reading things into people's comments that are not necessarily there. I don't see at all how Heimdallr is saying that. And here...

Dirk, it would be really helpful if you could spend some time reading forum topics concerning truth, psychopathology, STS/STO in order to get a sharper perspective on what these things entail.

Anart, I am and I have. Though I am sure my perspective can still be very much sharpened.

Are you suggesting Tolle is an STS influence? Have you read his books yourself?

She means exactly what she is saying, and I think that was she is saying is that it would be helpful if you were more up to speed on what we consider to be the prerequisite materials for having useful and extensive discussions on various topics on this forum.

 

[Chu]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

You think focusing on what you want to achieve in life is a losing strategy? Like setting goals is nonsense, wishful thinking and feeding the illusion?

I'm curious as to why you are asking this after Heimdallr's post

Of course that is not the case. But, it all depends on what your goals are, on whether they are based on knowledge or illusions, on whether the person has an agenda or not, whether they lead to something creative or entropic, etc.

It seems to me that you are asking questions as a way to avoid what is actually being said in this thread.

 

[Dirk]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

You think focusing on what you want to achieve in life is a losing strategy? Like setting goals is nonsense, wishful thinking and feeding the illusion?

I'm curious as to why you are asking this after Heimdallr's post

Of course that is not the case. But, it all depends on what your goals are, on whether they are based on knowledge or illusions, on whether the person has an agenda or not, whether they lead to something creative or entropic, etc.

It seems to me that you are asking questions as a way to avoid what is actually being said in this thread.

I'll explain. The Secret, I haven't read it myself, is all about the Law of Attraction. In other words, you get what you focus your mind on.

Of course, I think it is nonsense that a million dollars will automatically come my way if I focus on a million dollars every second of the day. If I really want that million dollars, however, I will find ways to get it, if I focus on it consistently (though it may be better to focus on the 'real thing' (the great house, the car, etc..)). My mind will just figure out things to get there and tune unuseful garbage out. And yes, I care about the great house and the great car. Just because they make my life easier and more comfortable, so that my 'machine' operates better.

Read a little bit between the lines when thinking about things like "The Secret". Of course it requires effort and wishful thinking that things come your way won't help, but focusing on what you want DOES help, as long as you are willing to do the work that is required to get there.

Yes, there are people behind The Secret and profiting out of desperate people. Look behind it and take out of it what is useful. Same with Atlas Shrugged and practically everything.

I think it is vital to create a certain amount of MATERIAL succes for oneself in order to be able to give back later on and to progress to STO. Also materiality is necessary in order to have the human machine operates at its best. It's not about creativity or entropy at this stage. Some things will be entropic, other things creative. Just go for yourself and do it with integrity and respect for your humanity.

Those Greenpeace activists just don't do it for me. A bunch of sleeping rebels that are causing more harm than good. They LACK SKILLS. I firmly believe those skills can only be obtained if one becomes independent and breaks out of the 'system' first. Victimizing oneself because of psychopathic influences is a losing game (I don't claim you guys do that btw, but a lot of people do), though it is important to be aware of it. Set yourself free first (as much as possible), then build a huge business and power in the real world. Do it with other people that you admire and respect.

Things like "The Secret", "Think and Grow Rich", etc.. can help here. Just be aware that those teachings are very limited and that eventually there is a ton of other work to do.

To summarize, what I am saying, let's make some billions together and use that to create a better world. Now the majority of people using those great tools out there don't have the best interest for humanity. Let's turn that around.

 

[Dirk]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

Ideas don't get mainstream coverage via Oprah if they tell any kind of truth about the nature of our world. So Oprah, whether aware or not, is leading people astray.

If this is all cointelpro managed, they probably don't see enough harm in it to stop it.

It doesn't teach anything about ponerology.

It does teach about internal processes that take place in (normal) people.

A tiny peace of the puzzle, doesn't matter that much, don't you think? Maybe they have more important things to concentrate on?

 

[StrangeCaptain]

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

You think focusing on what you want to achieve in life is a losing strategy? Like setting goals is nonsense, wishful thinking and feeding the illusion?

I'm curious as to why you are asking this after Heimdallr's post

Of course that is not the case. But, it all depends on what your goals are, on whether they are based on knowledge or illusions, on whether the person has an agenda or not, whether they lead to something creative or entropic, etc.

It seems to me that you are asking questions as a way to avoid what is actually being said in this thread.

I'll explain. The Secret, I haven't read it myself, is all about the Law of Attraction. In other words, you get what you focus your mind on.

...

To summarize, what I am saying, let's make some billions together and use that to create a better world. Now the majority of people using those great tools out there don't have the best interest for humanity. Let's turn that around.

That still does not explain how you read things into people's posts that aren't there. If you are doing it on purpose to bring the subject around to getting rich and why people should try to get rich, then that is a bit inconsiderate. It seemed to go that way on the Ayn Rand thread, too.