"Egregores: The Occult Entities That Watch Over Human Destiny" by Mark Stavish

[Laura]

The first thing about the book that I noted was Stavish's definition of "Egregores". He writes:

The word egregore is Greek in origin and is derived from égrégoros, meaning “wakeful” or “watcher.” The word is found in the Book of Enoch wherein it is described as an angelic being. The Book of Enoch is ascribed to Enoch, the grandfather of Noah, and, while noncanonical, it has attracted some theological and historical interest by the major Jewish and Christian denominations for a section of it known as the Book of the Watchers. This section is thought to have been written around 300 BCE. The only extant version that exists is in the South Semitic language of Ge’ez, originating around the Horn of Africa. While the original text may have been in Hebrew or Aramaic, no complete early text in either language survives. The main themes of this book—held in common by many mystics, practitioners of the occult, and even Christian fundamentalists— concern two hundred “fallen” angels, their interbreeding with human women, the subsequent creation of a race of giants (Nephilim) whose destruction in the biblical Flood receives mention in Genesis, and a coming apocalyptic battle between good and evil. A mention of the Nephilim from the Book of Enoch is as follows:

"And they became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was three hundred ells: Who consumed all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and fish, and to devour one another’s flesh, and drink the blood."

And:

"And Azâzêl taught men to make swords, and knives, and shields, and breastplates, and made known to them the metals of the earth and the art of working them, and bracelets, and ornaments, and the use of antimony, and the beautifying of the eyelids, and all kinds of costly stones, and all colouring tinctures. And there arose much godlessness, and they committed fornication, and they were led astray, and became corrupt in all their ways. Semjâzâ taught enchantments, and root-cuttings, Armârôs the resolving of enchantments, Barâqîjâl, taught astrology, Kôkabêl the constellations, Ezêqêêl the knowledge of the clouds, Araqiêl the signs of the earth, Shamsiêl the signs of the sun, and Sariêl the course of the moon."

Then Stavish writes:

The most commonly used definition (taken from Wiktionary.org) is as follows: “(occult) autonomous psychic entity composed of and influencing the thoughts of a group of people.” However, there is a second definition, an older, more significant, and perhaps frightening one. Here, an egregore is more than an “autonomous entity composed of and influencing the thoughts of a group of people”; it is also the home or conduit for a specific psychic intelligence of a nonhuman nature connecting the invisible dimensions with the material world in which we live. This, in fact, is the true source of power of the ancient cults and their religious-magical practices.

Then he cites Mouni Sadhu who says an egregore is "a collective entity, such as a nation, state, religious and sects and their adherents, and even minor human organizations. The structure of Egregores is similar to that of human beings. They have physical bodies (that is, collectively all the bodies of those who belong to the particular Egregor) and also astral and mental ones; the Egregor being the sum total of all these elements."

So, basically, "The Watchers", the fallen angels, have been transformed into more or less psychic creations, manifested by humans themselves in various ways.

Geeze, it reminds me of "human caused global warming". It is a curiously material interpretation of what is alleged to be psychic/paranormal phenomena.

We have almost completely lost "a specific psychic intelligence of a nonhuman nature connecting the invisible dimensions with the material world in which we live." But even that was a weak description of what the Cs refer to as 4th Density beings that control our world.

In the Chris Langan thread, I posted an extract from Secret History that interestingly covers the very topic of Egregores even though they are not called such. The entire passage is that thread, but I'm just going to include the relevant part here:

The closest analogy to the view of reality presented by the Cassiopaeans is graphically explicated in the movie, The Matrix, wherein our reality is presented as a computer program/dream that “stores” human beings in “pods” so that they are batteries producing energy for some vast machine dominating the world. Certain programmed life-scenarios of great emotional content were designed in order to produce the most “energy” for this machine. And it seems that pain and suffering are the “richest” in terms of “juice.”

Another major concept presented in The Matrix was that the “real now” was the reality of the control system that produced the “programmed dream of reality” that was being experienced by those “trapped in the Matrix.” The Matrix Dream Reality was based on the way things were in the past, before a terrible thing had occurred to destroy the world-that-was, after which it came under the control of computers which had become sentient and needed to utilize human beings as “power sources,” or “food.”

The difference between the metaphor of The Matrix and the view of the Cassiopaeans is that they propose a para-physical realm as another layer in the structure of space-time from which our own reality is projected, looping over and over again in endless variations. You could say that the hyperdimensional realms are the “future” in a very real sense.

This para-physical reality of hyperdimensional space - the realm of the Matrix programmers - is inhabited, according to the Cassiopaeans, by beings of both positive and negative polarity who have “graduated” from our reality, but not necessarily in the sense of “dying” and going to a strictly ethereal realm. It is, effectively, a world of the future that creates our present by projecting itself into the past. What is important to realize is that if we think about the future in terms of probable futures, or branching universes, then what we do now, whether we wake up from the Matrix or not, determines what kind of future we experience, individually and collectively.

[...]

As many physicists will tell you, all that really exists are “waveforms” and we are waveforms of reality, and our consciousness is something that “reads waves.” We give form and structure to the waves we “read” according to some agreed upon convention.

And so, certain denizens of hyperdimensional space are “read” as more or less “reptilian“ because that is the “essence” of their being, the frequency of their “wave form.” We call them the Overlords of Entropy. They are not necessarily physical as we understand the term, nor are they necessarily “alien” as we understand that term either. We suspect that the perceptions of these levels of reality and their “consciousness units” are what is behind many religious conceptions and mythological representations of “gods and goddesses” and creatures of all sorts.
[...]

The natural field of view for the organic unit alone - with no connection to the higher self - is that of the material and/or mechanical interpretation of all phenomena. The influences of the Thought Center of non-being - the source of matter - have been increasing through the manifestation of billions of such units at a single point in time: the present.

The Thought Center of non-being is of a certain nature - contractile subjectivity - that exerts a more or less gravitational pull - a desire to absorb and assimilate the soul energies of Being - so as to feed its own contracting nature. Even if it promotes a full field of awareness in principle, it can only view Being as a traitor to its own need to not exist. This results in an individual who may proclaim that all is illusion, but whose actions - or rather lack thereof - betray the deeper immutable state of being. Due to its intrinsic nature, there is a powerful exertion of non-being to destroy and obviate Being and Creation - all the while it is unable to achieve the awareness that it only exists by virtue of Being and Creation IN ACTION!

The powerful exertion of the Thought Center of non-being to absorb and assimilate all of creation, powered by its own contractile subjectivity, poses certain problems both for itself and for Being. Since the fundament of non-being is a LIE - that is to say, the state of absolute non-being that it promotes is a paradoxical impossibility - and the fundament of Being is the objective fact that Existence simply IS via ACTION - or utilization of knowledge which generates light, the essential conflict is between lies and truth. The Thought Center of non-being tells itself the biggest lie of all - that it does not exist - and goes to sleep in pretense. And from this essential point, we see that the nature of subjectivity is that of lies. Lies and belief in lies - whether or not the believer is aware that they are believing a lie - all partake of the same essence - subjectivity and non-being.

The Thought Center of non-being - in its expression as matter - being impressed by Creative consciousness in ACTION which partially awakens it and draws it into the creation of the organic world - wraps itself around this awakened consciousness. Its intrinsic nature of pretense to non-being acts gravitationally on consciousness, and twists and distorts it into varying degrees of subjectivity. It is this interaction of the energy of all possibility, lensed through subjectivity of matter, that produces the myriad manifestations of the material universe.

In the realm of the Thought Center of non-being, there are many manifestations - or ways - of seeking annihilation - the Base Names of God. These modes act in a gravitational way to engage, enfold, and distort consciousness to their ends. This results in the formation of consciousness units of great power and depth of cunning - far beyond anything imaginable in our own reality.

These consciousness units use their wiles to assimilate weaker consciousness units so as to accrue more contractile power. Obviously, the more dense the consciousness units consumed, the more “nutritious” they are. And so they seek, by great cunning, to carefully, and with great patience, manipulate the consciousness units selected for assimilation. It is, effectively, trans-millennial stalking.

These Overlords of Entropy- or so we may call them, - by virtue of the overlay of intensified subjectivity - the hallmark of the influence of the Thought Center of non-being - interface with the organic world on a “geographic” scale. Since they have, so to say, an intimate relationship with matter, the contractile consciousness of such a being can affect its area of chosen dominion very much like an overshadowing “cloud” with millions of tendrils of connections between it and its range of influence. This includes even the very matter of the bodies of human beings. It is through these etheric fibers that the Overlords of Entropy assimilate energy.

These overlords have “organs” so to speak. Just as a group of people were described by the Apostle Paul as “the body of Christ,” so are the organs of entropic overlords manifested as individual beings, though their direct connection to a single massive consciousness unit makes them more like projections than individually souled beings.

Because of their great drive to conserve and assimilate energy, the overlords are stingy with allowances to their organ-beings. It seems that they do not waste energy in manifesting and maintaining organic structures for their organs, and thus the organic physicality takes on the configuration of less complex creatures in the organic world. Rather than interacting with an organic structure in a cooperative, awakened state, they exercise control over theirs. Utilizing organic structures that require the least energy to maintain conserves energy. To this end, they draw the energy for their organic units from the pools of archetypal form of the animal kingdom. This energy is more easily accessed, is lower in frequency, and thus more amenable to control.

This seems to be the reason why, when perceived by individuals of the third dimensional self-consciousness - third density - realm, their appearance is generally startling. The reptilian type comes to mind as being the most energy efficient. Again, remember that consciousness is merely reading waves.

For the same reason - the contractile nature of the hierarchy and its energy consumption - it is extremely difficult for these organ-beings of the Overlords of Entropy to actively function in our realm for any period of time. When they enter our realm, assuming a third density organic form, they are at a disadvantage. They are temporarily disconnected from the energy pool, which weakens, but they are at another great disadvantage as well. Since they are not internally connected to an expanding, creative feedback loop of Creative Being, their own entropic overlord is a constant drain on them, pulling them gravitationally as it were, making them even weaker than the natural denizens of this realm. Such are those called aliens and “Men in Black.” It is this great strain on their energy resources that makes such appearances so rife with anomalous glitches. There is no creativity, and thus no ability to pull off such an intrusion into our reality with any convincing effectiveness.

For this reason they generally avoid direct interaction in the organic world, preferring to utilize other methods to stalk and conquer weaker units to feed the Thought Center of non-being. To this end, these entropic overlords seek to establish and maintain the entrainment of creative energy within the third density reality by deceptively enhancing third density, material interpretations of the phenomenal world.

In short, such beings of enormous geographic domination actively operate within their geographic field of influence to divert and discourage those organic units who have tenuous connections to creative energy - higher self - from interpretations which will lead to the establishing of a feedback loop with those Thought Centers of Being/Creation.

As noted, the nature of such beings, and the dynamic of their existence, requires massive energy input in order to control and direct their own organic physicality. This is possible at the level of overlord/sub-units of the Thought Center of non-being by virtue of the extensive assimilation of other consciousness units, and most especially by virtue of their geographic character, which enables them to connect to thousands, if not millions, of organic beings in the organic realm. This is, effectively, the Program of the Matrix.

This connection is naturally enabled by the aforementioned intrinsic nature of organic units to only perceive the field of view of the organic realm. That is to say that mechanical and material feedback loops are far more easily created between organic units and the sub-units of Non-being by a sort of gravitational pull of these sub-units upon the natural inclinations of the organic being.

This establishes feedback loops as previously described. The organic unit, infected with the material/mechanical view, begins to act according to that Thought Center’s dictates, and this generates activities of that nature in the organic unit. Due to the fact that any given sub-unit of the Thought Center of non-being may be connected to millions of organic units in third density, any of them may be activated singly, or in concert, to fulfill the wishes of the Overlords of Entropy, a larger sub-unit of the Thought Center of Non-being.

Now, all of that is not to say that "egregores" as Stavish would have them, do not get created and maintained, and function somewhat in the way he describes. But I think we should think of what Stavish calls "egregores" to be more like what we would call "conduits". That is, Stavish's egregore is a structure designed to transfer energy between densities/realms. And we should not ever forget what is on the other side of that conduit sucking up all that emotional energy.

 

[heinrich]

The first thing about the book that I noted was Stavish's definition of "Egregores". He writes:



Then Stavish writes:



Then he cites Mouni Sadhu who says an egregore is "a collective entity, such as a nation, state, religious and sects and their adherents, and even minor human organizations. The structure of Egregores is similar to that of human beings. They have physical bodies (that is, collectively all the bodies of those who belong to the particular Egregor) and also astral and mental ones; the Egregor being the sum total of all these elements."

So, basically, "The Watchers", the fallen angels, have been transformed into more or less psychic creations, manifested by humans themselves in various ways.

Geeze, it reminds me of "human caused global warming". It is a curiously material interpretation of what is alleged to be psychic/paranormal phenomena.

We have almost completely lost "a specific psychic intelligence of a nonhuman nature connecting the invisible dimensions with the material world in which we live." But even that was a weak description of what the Cs refer to as 4th Density beings that control our world.

In the Chris Langan thread, I posted an extract from Secret History that interestingly covers the very topic of Egregores even though they are not called such. The entire passage is that thread, but I'm just going to include the relevant part here:



Now, all of that is not to say that "egregores" as Stavish would have them, do not get created and maintained, and function somewhat in the way he describes. But I think we should think of what Stavish calls "egregores" to be more like what we would call "conduits". That is, Stavish's egregore is a structure designed to transfer energy between densities/realms. And we should not ever forget what is on the other side of that conduit sucking up all that emotional energy.

dear laura. i am impressed by your erudition. when i mentioned christ and god as being possibly egregores, i was thinking of the power of mind to create realities which we perceive as separate from us. but, as the cs say, separation does not exist. we wish christ and god, and therefore these exist, at least in the ethereal...and this brings me back to the necessity of watching our thoughts. i hope you and ark are well.

 

[Tristan]

I found this excerpt about the meeting between Gurdjieff and Crowley at Fontainebleau that is quoted in James Webb's book according to this source: When Crowley Met Gurdjieff

The story of when Crowley met Gurdjieff can be found in James Webb’s comprehensive book, The Harmonious Circle:

Crowley arrived for a whole weekend and spent the time like any other visitor to the Prieure; being shown the grounds and the activities in progress, listening to Gurdjieff’s music and his oracular conversation. Apart from some circumspection, Gurdjieff treated him like any other guest until the evening of his departure. After dinner on Sunday night, Gurdjieff led the way out of the dining room with Crowley, followed by the body of pupils who had also been at the meal. Crowley made his way toward the door and turned to take his leave of Gurdjieff, who by this time was some way up the stairs to the second floor. “Mister, you go?” Gurdjieff inquired. Crowley assented. “You have been guest?” – a fact which the visitor could hardly deny. “Now you go, you are no longer guest?” Crowley – no doubt wondering whether his host had lost his grip on reality and was wandering in a semantic wilderness – humored his mood by indicating that he was on his way back to Paris. But Gurdjieff, having made the point that he was not violating the canons of hospitality, changed on the instant into the embodiment of righteous anger. “You filthy,” he stormed, “you dirty inside! Never again you set foot in my house!” From his vantage point on the stairs, he worked himself up into a rage which quite transfixed his watching pupils. Crowley was stigmatized as the sewer of creation was taken apart and trodden into the mire. Finally, he was banished in the style of East Lynne by a Gurdjieff in fine histrionic form. Whitefaced and shaking, the Great Beast crept back to Paris with his tail between his legs.

On the other hand, Salvish's book also analyzes how characters and works of fiction become egregores. He gives the example of the Necronomicon, H.P. Lovecraft's work of fiction, and compares it to the life and adventures of the Tibetan Buddhist guru Padmasambhava. He implies that most of the occult texts of both the West and the East have been created or arranged in a rather artificial way.

Thus, King Solomon, Jesus, Padmasambhava, the founder of the Rosicrucians, etc. exist more as inspirational legends than as historical facts. This does not diminish their power as personalities.

Then he adds that "in Roman Catholicism the number of saints and other religions are a virtual testimony of this".

I was reminded of Pierre's passage, in chapter 20 in the thread Mass Extinctions, Evolutionary Leaps, and the Virus-Information Connection about the 460 years added to the official chronology in which he speaks of Charlemagne and the imposition of Roman Christianity:

Conditions after the Plague of Justinian

One of reasons to add 460 years is because this gave plenty of ‘time’ to establish a whole genealogy of Popes and Saints. This provided almost 5 centuries of in-interrupted historical legitimacy, until dozens of Saints[12] and Popes[13] were proven to be entirely mythical.

 

[Laura]

Don't misunderstand me. What Stavish describes as "egregores" certainly have some reality. But what is troubling is that he (and others) choose to call these structures "watchers" when they are not that at all. It seems far more likely to me that 4D beings are the "Watchers" of ancient texts.

We know about things like limbic resonance and related psychological phenomena that appear to be like contagions. I would call those "structures" as well.

Stavish describes a wide variety of his so-called egregores, from memes, to UFO/Alien phenomena, briefly citing Vallee's "control system" as an egregore and ignoring entirely the implications. And certainly, a group of people engaged in doing things together can generate a structure. The question is, is there a hidden stimulus that compels or induces one or more persons to engage in a "structure producing" activity so that "feeding" can take place?

 

[Laura]

Here's an example from the Cs of something like an "egregore" or, more accurately, Watcher:

1997-07-19.
Q: As you know, there is a flood in Poland, and Ark has to go
back, there is so much that must be done, but the
government offices may be closed, the court session may be
delayed indefinitely, God knows what is going to happen.
What is the source of this dreadful disaster in Poland?
A: Sopophoric screen alterations of the magnetic belt
overlay.
Q: And what is causing these screen alterations of the
magnetic belt overlay?
A: Influences of Acquiim.
Q: What is Acquiim?
A: 4th density overseer.
Q: Does that mean soporific screen alteration?
A: Soporific/phosphorous.
Q: What is the purpose of this screen alteration?
A: Deterrence of colinear wave reading consciousness units.
Q: What is a 'colinear wave reading consciousness unit?'
A: Suggest you "look in the mirror."
Q: Well! I don't know if I like being a colinear wave
reading consciousness unit!
A: Why not?
Q: Because I don't like feeling responsible for all these
people who are suffering in this disaster!
A: Responsible? Are you altering the weather?

That whole session is interesting in regard to this topic.

And then, there is The Quorum.

 

[Anthony]

I'm only about 30% in the book, and the concept of the egregores seems similar if not the same as the concept of 'pendulums' which we discussed previously on the forum.

Pendulums: What Are They?​

In accordance to Reality Transurfing, a pendulum is created by the energy of a group of people thinking in the same way. A pendulum is an energy-based information structure.

People who think in the same direction create invisible energy-informational structures that directly affect us in a daily life.

A pendulum maintains the thought energy of the adherent at its own vibrational frequency.

Essentially pendulum is sort of a “thought condensate” — a soul of a thing, idea, doctrine, organization, ideology or anything that has admirers, supporters, followers, and fanatics.

Basically when a Pendulum is established, it strives to stay alive. Pendulum is energetic structure and it feeds on energy. Therefore it tries to attract as many adherents as possible. As long as the adherents are contributing their thought energy to it, it keeps swinging.

A destructive pendulum forces goals onto its adherents that are not of their own making.

A pendulum plays on human emotion, thereby catching the individual in their web.

From session on 22nd February 2020:

(L) Things are getting nutty, ya know? It's getting really weird. So, just as a little reminder to myself about what it is that we're supposed to be doing... [laughter]

A: FRV modulation and synching!

Q: (L) So in other words, we're supposed to be modulating our FRV - i.e. our receivership capability - by work on the self, and synchronizing with all of the members of the group in order to... what?

A: Anchor the frequency of the new reality.

Q: (L) So in other words, there are a number of possible new realities and it depends on either... Okay, is it that a group can anchor a frequency and thereby determine the template of the new reality for all?

A: Not exactly. Determines which branch you will move to.

Q: (L) So anchoring a frequency as a group in a sense is not exactly like creating the new reality... It's more like choosing. Is that it?

A: Yes yes yes

Q: (L) So it's all a question of choice. What reality do you want to experience? And therefore you modify your FRV or you get into association with others of the FRV you think is the right one or desirable or whatever. And then you all start vibrating together. Well, in this Reality Transfer book we just read, he talks about these pendulums and what you are saying sounds sort of like what he describes as a pendulum. He doesn't talk about what they are, but he thinks that all pendulums are bad or evil .

A: He is wrong. Dead wrong.

Q: (L) So some of these pendulum-type attractors can be good?

A: Essential in fact. One must choose.

Q: (L) Well, choosing makes me think of what the Apostle Paul was saying when he talked about making... I mean, basically what it amounted to was making your choices based on the unseen world or on unseen realities. In a funny sort of way, today I had like a little realization because I was trying to understand why for Paul, the death of his Christ or the crucifixion was THE most important thing. For him it was the death, not the resurrection. It finally occurred to me that the reason it was so important was because - and this is according to Paul - his Christ went to his death with absolute faith even in the face of everything being wrong and against him. The way it's depicted in the Gospel of Mark, not only did the disciples not understand, not only is he abused, tortured, and rejected by literally everybody... I mean, everybody flees from him in the Gospel of Mark, which is the first gospel. Everybody. There are no women at the cross. There are no supporters. There's nobody. He did that willingly - the way it's depicted, and it's an allegory - because his faith in the unseen necessity and the other world and what would happen after the death was so strong he could and would do it. It was a matter of this faith that what was unseen was more real and lasting that the seen reality. Am I right? Seeing the unseen is the key?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So Paul was concerned with restoring humanity to the Edenic state. He uses the symbol as one man, the First Adam, and death came to all. And then by one man life came to all. It struck me that the possibility... Well, what the C's have said is that when the Fall happened, it happened to everyone. It wasn't just like one person. It happened to everyone. So it seems to me that this primal man that is Adam is a representation of all. It's not just one man that caused everybody to go kaflooey. And they've said that it was the female energy consorted with the STS reality. Is that what we're looking at here, only the reversal of the process? In other words, a group of people that have that kind of faith that in the face of everything being literally awful as it is in our world today, that they still have faith in the other reality, they still have faith in doing good, doing right, being loving, that they do not buy into the whole Darwinian materialistic thing, and basically they don’t believe those lies and by those means they are able to, at a certain point in time that Paul called the culmination of the ages, be restored to this Edenic state... in other words a 4D STO reality. Am I interpreting that correctly?

A: Oh that was beautiful!! We are impressed!

Anyways, whether we call them pendulums or egregores, I find it a useful concept in raising awareness of how easily one can be lead down a certain road by blindly following an ideology or a teaching without discernment. Neither covers the 4D STS angle, but nobody really does, apart from the forum here.

 

[heinrich]

I'm only about 30% in the book, and the concept of the egregores seems similar if not the same as the concept of 'pendulums' which we discussed previously on the forum.



From session on 22nd February 2020:



Anyways, whether we call them pendulums or egregores, I find it a useful concept in raising awareness of how easily one can be lead down a certain road by blindly following an ideology or a teaching without discernment. Neither covers the 4D STS angle, but nobody really does, apart from the forum here.

i have not looked into pendulums, but i will follow your line of thought with interest

 

[Tristan]

On the other hand, there is this session in which the Quorum is mentioned for the first time. .

October 16, 1994

Frank, Laura, V___


Q: Hello.

A: Hello. Music is Good.

Q: (L) Can you give us your name?

A: Cederra.

Q: (L) I would like to know what is the origin of the Freemasons?

A: Osirians.

Q: (L) Can you tell us when the original Freemasons formed as a society?

A: 5633 B.C.

Q: (L) Is Freemasonry as it is practiced today the same?

A: 33rd degree, yes.

Q: (L) So, there is a continuing tradition for over 7 thousand years?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Is this organization with a plan to take over and rule the world?

A: Not exactly.

Q: (L) What is their focus?

A: Overseers.

Q: (L) Of what?

A: The status of quorum.

Q: (L) What is the quorum?

A: Deeper knowledge organization. Totally secret to your kind as of yet. Very important with regard to your future.

Furthermore, in this very session the book of Enoch is casually briefly discussed.

L) In what way?

A: Changes.

Q: (L) Can you get more specific? Is that changes to us personally?

A: Partly.

Q: (L) Earth changes?

A: Also.

Q: (L) What is the relationship between this quorum and the Cassiopaeans?

A: They communicate with us regularly.

Q: (L) Do they do this knowing you are Cassiopaeans or do they do it thinking...

A: Yes.

Q: (L) Has there been an ongoing relationship between the Cassiopaeans and this quorum for these thousands of years?

A: For some time as you measure it.

Q: (L) What is the origin of the Kaballah?

A: Channeled truths given to early pre-Mosaic Jews to use your terminology.

Q: (L) When the Jewish commentators began setting down the teachings, was this the first time this had been put into writing?

A: No. Not even close.

Q: (L) Is the form that it is in today very close to the original form and can it be relied upon?

A: No. Corrupted.

Q: (L) What is the origin of the books of Enoch?

A: Sanskritian society in area now referred to as India.

Q: (L) What evaluation can we give the books of Enoch as far as level of truth?

A: 50% of area was destroyed in nuclear conflagration in between

Q: (L) In between what?

A: Then and now in the expanded present.

Q: (L) What is the "expanded" present?

A: The real measure of time.

FWIW

 

[Alana]

Now, all of that is not to say that "egregores" as Stavish would have them, do not get created and maintained, and function somewhat in the way he describes. But I think we should think of what Stavish calls "egregores" to be more like what we would call "conduits". That is, Stavish's egregore is a structure designed to transfer energy between densities/realms. And we should not ever forget what is on the other side of that conduit sucking up all that emotional energy.

This makes more sense than what he claims. He even sites a Buddhist lama who told the David-Neel woman:

If you are living on a dry spot of ground at some distance from the banks of a river, fishes (sic) will never approach you. But cut a channel between the river and your dwelling-place and dig a pond in the dry spot of ground. Then, as the water runs in it, fishes will come from the river and you will see them moving before your eyes.

so yeah, it sounds like he confuses different things and puts them together under the same umbrella.

What impresses me the most is how similar is his description of egregores to what you wrote regarding the Overlords of Entropy in Secret History. What's up with that? Is he using your ideas for his own purposes or is he trying to muddy the waters more in regard to 4D STS beings? Or...?

I'm only about 30% in the book, and the concept of the egregores seems similar if not the same as the concept of 'pendulums' which we discussed previously on the forum.

I too thought of the pendulums discussion.

 

[Laura]

Yes, I was thinking of the Pendulums book too. "Transurfing Reality" or something like that.

What is interesting is that it appears that quite a few people have noticed the phenomenon down through history. And they have tried to formulate explanations for it.

It's rather like what we noticed about the Vinnie Bridges gang way back when... how one individual could start stirring the pot and pretty soon you'd have a whole gang ranting and raving and acting nuts almost as though it was choreographed. At the time, I really wondered a lot about that: what the heck was in play? Well, of course I thought that Vinnie himself was being manipulated by 4D STS, but what the heck was going on with the rest of the people? And some of them were people I knew and I just couldn't believe what I was seeing: how they turned on a dime and acted like they had lost all common sense and rationality.

Well, then along came Lobaczewski and he explained some of how such groups operate, how different pathologies played different roles in such ponerogenic groups. That helped with the explanations but it wasn't the whole banana.

Then there was the weird phenomenon of different, widely disconnected people, saying or doing certain things absolutely in synch with something that was said or done in my own life, or thoughts, such that it appeared to be a remarkable synchronicity. Or, when I would think, "thank God I haven't heard from so-and-so (for some reason) " and then they would immediately show up again. You know, things like that. It was as though there was some kind of cryptogeographic connection pulling the strings of people who didn't even know each other. I'm pretty sure I wrote about this in either Amazing Grace or in The Wave.

Remember the story of the three cases of simultaneous spontaneous human combustion in widely separated areas but with certain corresponding elements? Pretty sure I wrote about that in The Wave.

So, clearly, there are a lot of things going on and I don't think it is helpful to just toss them all in the same basket and declare "Egregores"!!!

 

[genero81]

I grabbed the book on Kindle after seeing the recommendation to do so right before leaving for work on Friday. During a short break, I read through the introduction and was kind of blown away by this idea that Rome had fallen as a result of having lost it's egregore of Polytheism. We had read the first three volumes of Gibbon's 'The Decline and Fall of The Roman Empire' in a local meetup I attend. Gibbons points the finger at Christianity as playing a substantial role in Rome's demise. I had come to the conclusion that he was likely right because the Church quickly became an institution in itself with it's own authorities and ideas of what was important which diluted the power of the State. Certainly, there were other factors as well but this idea of a powerful egregore that was at the core of Roman culture having been lost was an idea I hadn't considered. It certainly got my attention.

I also thought of Pendulums though I couldn't remember the term. So now we have two sources describing something similar but both are taking it, or at least seems to be, in an STS mode. I guess I can see the temptation of trying to harness forces that run groups of people like puppeteers for one's own advantage, even if I disagree which such an idea.

Prior to this I have been exposed to the term egregores from other sources in the last few weeks as if there's an egregore of the the term itself. I also noticed that some seem to imply that all phenomena is a result of the collective unconscious of masses of people. One guy was saying that the UFO phenomena itself was an egregore, but then later states; "this doesn't mean UFO's aren't real."

When we study the the various ways 4DSTS interacts with our world, we do see quite plainly a correlation between the expectations of a given culture and how that phenomena manifests itself. So it seems clear that there is a connection between the two.

Then there's the session about the planes at the bottom of the ocean that appeared and disappeared as a result of, or having as a strong factor, the expectations of masses of people.

So I think it's safe to say we have something powerful and real that can effect our reality in ways we don't fully understand. What can we piece together and possibly have some good questions for the C's? The C's have also given us the idea of becoming a "super organism" as a collective if we connect chakras, Which I take as meaning a unification of understanding and intent. Does this relate in any way to the power of egregores?

 

[mkrnhr]

Where the author's definition is weak is that these entities, whether self-aware or not, are presented as being the creatio ex nihilo of human thought. It is more likely that either a person or a group taps into them, or they parasite a person or group, and then the feeding feedback loop takes place. The idea that whenever two people are having a frivolous idea about the weather, they create a weather mini-god is a little far-fetched.

 

[aragorn]

I'm halfway through the book and can only agree with what has been said so far. Sure, there's probably something to what the writer is saying, but as Alana said, the hammer-and-nail analogy comes to mind. Another thing that caught my attention was a passage in which Stavish basically says that in order not to feed any evil egregores we shouldn't focus on the bad stuff – just focus on nice things. Again, there's some truth to this in that we shouldn't obsessively put all our time in observing evil and bad things, and I've noticed that if I dive too deep into some really nasty topic (e.g., pedophilia or alien abductions) it starts to "eat me up". Am I at those moments feeding an egregore, don't know. However, this talk about ignoring evil reminds me of the YCYOR schtick. Is this done on purpose?

Having said that, the first things that came to my mind as I learned about egregores was the mind boggling idiocy and synchronism of stupidity of today's European and American politicians. I wouldn't be surprised if they all are connected to the same 'egregore' who is having a heyday using them!

 

[PERLOU]

Je viens de terminer le livre...
Je n'ai pas appris grand chose...
J'ai apprécié le chapitre sur l' A.M.O.R.C. car j'utilise la méditation pour me rendre dans cette cathédrale "Sanctum Céleste"
Ce qu'il faut retenir, à mon humble avis :
La tradition hermétique recommande la seule défense universelle contre l'invultuation [création d'images de personnes à des fins d'enchantement magique] : NE PAS DORMIR dans le sens d'être passif ou distrait. . . .
(1) Priez (...) celui qui n'a pas peur est difficilement invulnérable à tout danger ;
(2) occupez-vous des formes définies dans votre conscience, choisies et générées par vous-même, afin que quelque chose ne soit pas attaché à vous de l'extérieur. bon égrégore, qui correspond à ta contemplation, afin que tu ne sois pas empêtré dans la Chaîne d'un égrégore étranger et mauvais. . . .
(3) Exercez votre corps de manière raisonnable. . . .

Il faut accepter que "le bien et le mal n'existent pas, il n'y a que des idées et leurs conséquences".
Reconnaître cette réalité est la première étape pour la vaincre.
Apprendre à comprendre son propre esprit, le pouvoir de la suggestion, à se fixer consciemment des objectifs et à choisir sa propre voie - même si cela implique de participer, même temporairement, à des égrégores qui sont sains pour nous - c'est ce qui nous permet de devenir maîtres de notre vie et non des pions dans la vie de quelqu'un d'autre.

Je pense que notre forum est un Egrégore au service des autres.



I enjoyed the chapter on A.M.O.R.C. because I use meditation to go to this cathedral "Sanctum Céleste"

What to remember, in my humble opinion:
Hermetic lore recommends the one universal defense against invultuation [creating images of people for the purpose of magical enchantment]: NOT SLEEP in the sense of being passive or distracted. . . .
(1) Pray (...) he who is not afraid is hardly invulnerable to any danger;
(2) deal with the forms defined in your consciousness, chosen and generated by yourself, so that something is not attached to you from outside. good egregore, which corresponds to your contemplation, so that you are not entangled in the Chain of a foreign and evil egregore. . . .
(3) Exercise your body reasonably. . . .

We must accept that "good and evil do not exist, there are only ideas and their consequences".
Recognizing this reality is the first step to overcoming it.
Learning to understand one's own mind, the power of suggestion, to consciously set goals and choose one's own path - even if it means participating, even temporarily, in egregores that are healthy for us - is what allows us to become masters of our lives and not pawns in someone else's life.

I think our forum is an Egregore at the service of others.

 

[Maat]

About egregores, here is a paper which, contrary to Stavish did bother with more precise definitions while tracking back the origin of the concept.

In French

https://www.cairn.info/revue-la-chaine-d-union-2013-1-page-77.htm?contenu=article

The same with machine translation in English : The egregore between Bible, occultism, surrealism and freemasonry

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