"Egregores: The Occult Entities That Watch Over Human Destiny" by Mark Stavish

[Yas]

I'm also reading the book and I'm finding it interesting.

I think the concepts and/or dynamics that are presented in the book have been mentioned in other materials threads before, but he talks about them from a slightly different angle which is interesting to consider. However, like some of you said here (I haven't read the entire thread yet), I think that it is a bit exaggerated to call all those phenomena "egregores".

I also was starting to feel a bit worried that the author might say that the only escape is to be a loner, which I don't think is a good option at all. I mean, I get it that people within groups might tend to groupthink, and some groups also encourage this kind of behavior, but that isn't what happens in ALL groups or ALL the people who participate in a group.

What I get from the author is that, although the concepts he presents are interesting, he's conclusions are somewhat biased. But it's a good read anyway (I think), the book does provide with food for thought.

One thing that caught my attention was when he talks about the Roman empire and the idea that the Egregore lost its strength, explaining the fell of the empire in esoteric terms. Now, I know that that's not the only explanation and there were many other factors at play, but I found the idea interesting. He says that the Egregor lost strength in particular because of the nature of some of the cults that were becoming popular at the time, because these cults offered salvation and that wasn't something the Egregore's cult offered.

So, I connected this to what we discussed elsewhere about Paul's teachings and early Christianity.

In the Egregore book, the author says that the Egregores required more attention via ritualistic cults with a lot of focus in the material realm, sacrifices, etc., to get the favour of these entities (which sounds a lot like "the gods" of ancient cultures). So I remembered some of what Paul said about these rituals, not giving too much importance to them, and what we learn from Paul's Necessary Sin about the difference between the Law and the more mature spirituality that he was teaching. Also, when Paul said something along the lines of Christ exposing and wining over not only some earthly authorities but also "angelic" ones, and therefore opening that path to humans. And I just thought that maybe some of what he was teaching is that human beings can attain 'salvation' and be in communion with God (the Divine) without being subject to those entities which are truly below God. So his teachings were offering freedom from these "watchers" and that was partly why Christianity was such a big deal.

Here are is an example of Paul's letters which made me think of this:

Colossians 2
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception [pseudo-intellectual babble], according to the tradition [and musings] of mere men, following the elementary principles of this world, rather than following [the truth—the teachings of] Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God]. 10 And in Him you have been made complete [achieving spiritual stature through Christ], and He is the head over all rule and authority [of every angelic and earthly power].

[...]

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of legal demands [which were in force] against us and which were hostile to us. And this certificate He has set aside and completely removed by nailing it to the cross. 15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities [those supernatural forces of evil operating against us], He made a public example of them [exhibiting them as captives in His triumphal procession], having triumphed over them through the cross. 16 Therefore let no one judge you in regard to food and drink or in regard to [the observance of] a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day. 17 Such things are only a shadow of what is to come and they have only symbolic value; but the substance [the reality of what is foreshadowed] belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one defraud you of your prize [your freedom in Christ and your salvation] by insisting on mock humility and the worship of angels, going into detail about visions [he claims] he has seen [to justify his authority], puffed up [in conceit] by his unspiritual mind, 19 and not holding fast to the head [of the body, Jesus Christ], from whom the entire body, supplied and knit together by its joints and ligaments, grows with the growth [that can come only] from God.

I may be off in my musings, but I just wanted to share a thought that came to mind while reading that particular part of the book.

 

[Laura]

I think we should try to list all the things that Stavish assigns to the category of egregore. And obviously, come up with some questions for the next Cs chat.

 

[Wandering Star]

Reading this thread I was reminded that the Ra material talks about something called thought-forms.

I've done a search and it's mentioned in several different contexts, but the following might be interesting:

Session 16 January 31, 1981

QUESTIONER: Are there things, like fantasies, that come true in other densities?
RA: I am Ra. It depends on the nature of that fantasy. It is a broad subject.
Perhaps the simplest thing we can say is that if the fantasy, as you call it, attracts the being, then it becomes reality for the being. If it is a contemplative reverie in general, it can enter the infinity of possibility/probability complexes and occur elsewhere, without particular attachment to the creator's energy fields.
QUESTIONER: To clarify things further: if I were to dream strongly of building a ship, would this occur in one of the other densities?
RA: I am Ra. That would occur, would have occurred, or will occur.
QUESTIONER: So if an entity strongly fantasizes about fighting another entity, would that be the case?
RA: I am Ra. In that case, the phantasy of the entity concerns the self and another being, which links the thought-form to the self-related possibility/probability complex that creates that thought-form. This would increase the possibility/probability of it occurring in third density.
QUESTIONER: Does the Orion group use this principle to create conditions favorable to their objectives?
188 Session 16 RA: I am Ra. Our answer is going to be more specific than the question. The Orion group uses daydreams of a hostile or negative nature to feed or strengthen these thought-forms.

 

[Navigator]

Some 30% into the book, it reminded me of the Golem from that session in 2015:

(Galatea) Ya know the story about Elisa Lam, the girl in the elevator who was hiding from something. Then she went out to talk to it, and she started waving her hands weirdly. So, I wanted to ask what did she see or what was she running from?

[ Elisa Lam Elevator footage

]

A: Golem!

Q: (Galatea) It looked like Gollum?

(L) It's a Jewish monster.

(Pierre) Made from mud.

(Galatea) It was actually a mud monster?

A: Close.

Q: (Galatea) Must freak you out to see that!

(Perceval) Did she herself climb into the water tank?

A: No

Q: (Perceval) How did she get into that water tank?

A: Spacetime distortion.

Q: (Atreides) But a golem is an instrument of revenge created by someone to kill or protect somebody else. So, if it's a golem, who sent it and why was it targeting a Canadian Chinese girl in Los Angeles?

A: Target practice. There is a reason that Galatea thought of it at this moment.

 

[Alejo]

I just started it this book today, I am through the first chapter and so far.. it seems like an interesting read, but I do agree with what others have said about the hammer and nail situation.

But I do think there's value in what he writes, mostly because of ponerology, for some reason I was reminded of societies loosing themselves in psychopath's dream.. like Hitler's Germany, and I don't mean the victims who were helpless.. I mean the people who really took on the ideology full on and lost themselves in it, and then I remembered how he was directed by 4D STS.

It made me think of the idea of what people align themselves with, groups and the entire woke ideology of today, and how they all seem so homogenous, that somehow as a working hypothesis an entity being born out of the energy of people and growing stronger because of it and then developing a necessity for sustenance kind of made sense. if we can develop elementals that attain some level of consciousness and turn into attachments from a wound or injury in life, then it would stand to logic that perhaps it is possible for a group of people to create an elemental inadvertently, a large one that is hooked on all of them.

It also reminded me for some reason of Malachi Martin's book, and the introduction of that work with the description of the scene in Japan, where it was mentioned that the times that were being lived made it possible for such an entity to possess a human being, or something along the lines.

I will carry on.

 

[Ben]

I think we should try to list all the things that Stavish assigns to the category of egregore. And obviously, come up with some questions for the next Cs chat.

It seems to include almost all group activities of humans.

Empires
Nations
Religions
Esoteric or Occult Groups
Cults
Sports teams
Cults of personality eg. Music stars, film stars
Political groups
Popular subcultures (groups identified with particular fashions, music etc.)

One I'm not sure about

Groups united by a particular interest or activity other than sport (hobbies, basically)

 

[Andrian]

Thank you all for your input on the following thread.

I haven't read the book yet, I've downloaded it on kindle but what i've gathered thus far from this thread and from watching an interview with Stavish talking about egregores is what Laura, Alana and others have mentioned, that is, these egregores may thought form constructs that act as platforms or hooks through which a feeding conduit is being established. I have the impression that the 4d sts denizens are able to induce specifically designed thought patterns on targeted single individuals, according to their lifestyle, emotional, psychological, psychic profile to large groups or even entire societies as we see it in the West with the hypnotic like blind following of the masses of the woke ideology.

Lately I've started observing myself more carefully and I've noticed and understood finally a paradoxically simple but yet extremely difficult to grasp fact, that is, our thoughts can and are being influenced, manipulated by/through external factors and even are induced by external forces. The fundamental factor is the choice, that is, which thoughts or thought patterns you choose to align with and which ones you choose to discard, to refuse to acknowledge as your own and thus not fuelling them by entropic emotions. As mentioned in the Ra's session shared by wandering star above, one of the ways to get you hooked to a specific thought pattern construct is practicing daydreaming, that is by dissociating in your head, because in this case one is not paying attention to what thoughts are passing through his mind, he limits himself to just follow and in most cases identify with almost every thought that comes to his mind. The key is the increased awareness of self through constant observation of self by using every tool at our disposal.

Anyway just a few thoughts I wanted to share on this topic.

 

[Jimmy Ssaz]

It seems to include almost all group activities of humans.

Empires
Nations
Religions
Esoteric or Occult Groups
Cults
Sports teams
Cults of personality eg. Music stars, film stars
Political groups
Popular subcultures (groups identified with particular fashions, music etc.)

One I'm not sure about

Groups united by a particular interest or activity other than sport (hobbies, basically)

When I walk in nature it is wonderful to see, to feel the harmony that exists but I start to observe a lethal snake hiding that can bite a hive of wasps that are not friendly, some wild horses that try to crush you and similar things then that is "the harmony" that many times I did not see or forget that danger is always present so you have to be prudent nothing else fear keeps you alert it is not so bad and everyone has to die someday I think you have to accept the egregores that exist because everything is harmonious.
A person can be meditating calmly but outside many things happen a spider eats an insect a car accident in the street etc...and in all that whirlwind we are us although we are not conscious many things are happening second by second someone dies someone is born and things like that ....

 

[Keit]

I think we should try to list all the things that Stavish assigns to the category of egregore. And obviously, come up with some questions for the next Cs chat.

I finished the book and the conclusion appears to have a good summary of what the author thinks egregors are.

• In the end we can see that if the ancients are correct, then egregores are also living beings.
• An egregore has a body, a mind, and a purpose that sets it apart from other beings—including other egregores—and it has the power to act on all three levels: material, psychic (emotional), and mental (ideas).
• It feeds off the emotions of those who participate in it and fulfills certain expectations and desires of its creators and followers.
• It is functionally irrelevant, except for academic definition. It can be either an entity or a thoughtform. It has no difference or significance to the author.
• Good and evil are simply constructs; we must accept that “there is no such thing as good or evil, only ideas and their consequences.”
• "If you meet an egregor on the road, kill it". It may be positive to belong to some egregors, but the relationship should be conditioned, modified, otherwise you are their slave. Disconnecting from them is a definition of true freedom.

Others mentioned pendulums. And indeed what is described in the book looks similar to Vadim Zeland's Reality transferfing. He is also very eager to escape any egregors/pendulums. So here's what the C's said about it:

Q: (L) So it's all a question of choice. What reality do you want to experience? And therefore you modify your FRV or you get into association with others of the FRV you think is the right one or desirable or whatever. And then you all start vibrating together. Well, in this Reality Transfer book we just read, he talks about these pendulums and what you are saying sounds sort of like what he describes as a pendulum. He doesn't talk about what they are, but he thinks that all pendulums are bad or evil .

A: He is wrong. Dead wrong.

Q: (L) So some of these pendulum-type attractors can be good?

A: Essential in fact. One must choose.

As for categories, they are what Ben mentioned above.

• Geographic, cultural, religious, national, generational.
• All members of a group, a family, a club, a political party, a religion, or even a country, psychically included in the egregore of the organization to which they belong.
• All mass media, advertising, marketing, the psychology of crowds, any form of archetypal expression, memes.

It appears that Stavish does puts any possible psychic effect or result of any possible human interaction in one big egregor pile. Some of it may be true, but the reality is probably much more complicated and intricate.

And speaking of "memes", sorry, but I couldn't help myself.

 

[Ben]

Thinking more about this, most of the examples given in the book would be more specific objects of focus than the broad categories I listed. For example - in a religion it would be the saints, or 'past masters' or personified deities. Ancestors, deceased members of the movement and so on.

In terms of memes he mentions 'Slender Man', a cultural phenomenon involving focus on a form or being (associated with evil and fear). In political movements it might be the ringleaders of a revolution, for example.

The underlying theme is an object of collective focus over a period of time, requiring attention, thought and emotional energy. Even the more mundane sounding examples, like a sports team, have certain rituals and devotions associated with them.

 

[Lyndi]

I'll try to post some bits from the book with some observations of things that stood out to me. In the chapter on how egregores can war with each other, the author mentions a god of Tibetan Bhuddism. I found it interesting in light of the development of Yahweh from being a God of a single tribe, to becoming the overarching God of everything:

From much time spent with Tibetans throughout the 1990's, my understanding is that 'protector deities' represent 'wrathful compassion'. Mahakala was one that I became more familiar with in the Vajrayana. In 1990, in Rumtek, the Karma Kagyu monastery in Sikkim, northern India, at the big monastery, every evening they'd do the Mahakala practice. This involved a lot of loud drumming, strong chanting and the big horns. It was very energizing in a good way.

With learning more about the hyperdimensional realty in recent years, my thought is that one of the things these images/beings, the effective protector deities, worked on was protecting Buddhism and practitioners from such interdimensional interference. Tibetans generally knew about egregores and shamanistic practice so recognized that protection was useful. I don't remember much about Dorje Shugden in detail other than controversy about this practice in general, but he sounds more like the occult creation or participation in an entity that forms itself or is formed on purpose (or unintentionally) for a mission. I can't square Dorje Shugden with 'wrathful compassion', somehow. I could be wrong on this - it's based on remembered responses.

On creating egregores, I don't know how truthful this is on Alexandra David-Neel's part but in one of her books, likely 'Magic and Mystery in Tibet', but she recounted creating a 'little man' who accompanied her and Yongden in a caravan. She writes that others in the caravan saw him too. She does not give any report on how she created this being. Or what happened to him as time went on.... Hmmmm. One of the most interesting books I read on AD-N was written in French by a younger woman who was her caretaker/servant in the last decade of David-Neel's life. Marie Madeleine Peyronet, the author of the book 'Dix Ans avec Alexandra David-Neel, called Mme David-Neel a 'himalaya of despotism'. According to Marie Madeleine, she said this directly to her employer. Also Yongden says Alexandra beat him. This never occurred to me that on her travels AD-N could have picked up 'entities' as well as creating them herself. I know we can pick 'things' up as we go along exploring.

Tibetan Buddhism is powerful, there's knowledge of a lot of aspects of reality and psychology, it seems to me. On the whole my experience with Tibetan Buddhist lamas and practitioners is there was genuine dedication to the Bodhisattva Vow, with so much emphasis on helping others. Even towards animals, there was a deep feeling for animal life and unwillingness to harm animals; (which was in 'Seven Years in Tibet' book by Heinrich Harrer which drew me to Tibet 50 years ago. However, given the climate, people ate meat like 5 times a day, even living in Belleville Ontario. Now I eat meat almost as much, so I changed.)

I hope this isn't an unuseful digression! It is about Egregors and Protector Deities, at least.

 

[Keit]

The following excerpt was mentioned in Langan's thread in a different context. But this could be pertinent to this thread as well.

Laura said:
Q: (L) Next question on the list: How do consciousness, information, and matter relate to each other?

A: Different concentrations of truth.

Q: (L) So I'm assuming you mean that matter would be one concentration, and consciousness would be another, and information like maybe pure information would be the purest form?

A: Not necessarily, information arranged by a truth becomes consciousness. That is why truth and objectivity are so important. Without it, consciousness and individuality fractures and disintegrates.

Still need to think and formulate thoughts about this, but if "good and evil" isn't important to the "Golded Dawn" etc. guys, then there is no proper sifting through "truth and objectivity". For them what is true and objective are only constructs. They are only ideas and their formulations. So there is no deeper thinking about the value of information from this perspective. Sure, they do appear to do a lot of thinking and experiencing. They do appear to make an effort to "infuse" a bunch of information, but without the STO/STS division something is lacking, or so it seems to me.

Still need to think about it, but at least for now it seems to me that they don't take into account what the C's have mentioned:

information arranged by a truth becomes consciousness. That is why truth and objectivity are so important. Without it, consciousness and individuality fractures and disintegrates.

Maybe without truth and objectivity there is no true "magic". Maybe for something to happen you do need this distinction and understanding. Maybe in most cases of mechanical indications it doesn't lead to individualized "egregors" or whatever. Maybe it remains as the static in the information field in whatever form, unless 4D STS have an aim to capitalize on it. Or some other source, like Thor's Pantheum, etc. Maybe all of our emotional and mental activity does leave a mark and it can be used for whatever purpose.

But maybe in order to create a new possibility, something more fundamental and grandiose like creating a new reality, a more "pure" and truth oriented effort is required. Not some mechanical chanting and repetition of the words shared in a journal. But an open and creative intent. Just some thoughts.

 

[Mark7]

But maybe in order to create a new possibility, something more fundamental and grandiose like creating a new reality, a more "pure" and truth oriented effort is required. Not some mechanical chanting and repetition of the words shared in a journal. But an open and creative intent. Just some thoughts.

Yes. Perhaps if we had the knowledge to use pendulums for STO purposes, they would have more 'power' than STS pendulums, which struggle for energy due to their entropic and subjective natures it would seem. The C's said that people all over the world would eventually get a snootful and rise up... creating perhaps an STO pendulum (or STO egregore)? The drumbeat of the globalist agenda dones on, but something should rise up as a counterbalance, a better idea maybe, and perhaps the approaching wave will support that process as the Lizzy overlords suffer a less habitable environment. Can only hope that people's suffering will encourage many to embrace STO for their friends, family, and neighbors.

 

[BHelmet]

One I'm not sure about

Groups united by a particular interest or activity other than sport (hobbies, basically)

Why not? And how about Internet forums?

 

[Jimmy Ssaz]

From much time spent with Tibetans throughout the 1990's, my understanding is that 'protector deities' represent 'wrathful compassion'. Mahakala was one that I became more familiar with in the Vajrayana. In 1990, in Rumtek, the Karma Kagyu monastery in Sikkim, northern India, at the big monastery, every evening they'd do the Mahakala practice. This involved a lot of loud drumming, strong chanting and the big horns. It was very energizing in a good way.

With learning more about the hyperdimensional realty in recent years, my thought is that one of the things these images/beings, the effective protector deities, worked on was protecting Buddhism and practitioners from such interdimensional interference. Tibetans generally knew about egregores and shamanistic practice so recognized that protection was useful. I don't remember much about Dorje Shugden in detail other than controversy about this practice in general, but he sounds more like the occult creation or participation in an entity that forms itself or is formed on purpose (or unintentionally) for a mission. I can't square Dorje Shugden with 'wrathful compassion', somehow. I could be wrong on this - it's based on remembered responses.

On creating egregores, I don't know how truthful this is on Alexandra David-Neel's part but in one of her books, likely 'Magic and Mystery in Tibet', but she recounted creating a 'little man' who accompanied her and Yongden in a caravan. She writes that others in the caravan saw him too. She does not give any report on how she created this being. Or what happened to him as time went on.... Hmmmm. One of the most interesting books I read on AD-N was written in French by a younger woman who was her caretaker/servant in the last decade of David-Neel's life. Marie Madeleine Peyronet, the author of the book 'Dix Ans avec Alexandra David-Neel, called Mme David-Neel a 'himalaya of despotism'. According to Marie Madeleine, she said this directly to her employer. Also Yongden says Alexandra beat him. This never occurred to me that on her travels AD-N could have picked up 'entities' as well as creating them herself. I know we can pick 'things' up as we go along exploring.

Tibetan Buddhism is powerful, there's knowledge of a lot of aspects of reality and psychology, it seems to me. On the whole my experience with Tibetan Buddhist lamas and practitioners is there was genuine dedication to the Bodhisattva Vow, with so much emphasis on helping others. Even towards animals, there was a deep feeling for animal life and unwillingness to harm animals; (which was in 'Seven Years in Tibet' book by Heinrich Harrer which drew me to Tibet 50 years ago. However, given the climate, people ate meat like 5 times a day, even living in Belleville Ontario. Now I eat meat almost as much, so I changed.)

I hope this isn't an unuseful digression! It is about Egregors and Protector Deities, at least.

There are so many Bodssativas and they always talk about awakened people, shamans with awesome powers including all the sacred cows of the illuminati and none of them have had access to a power like the Holy Grail I find it very curious plus I think (not sure) that the C's never mentioned Buddha if he really was the master or "awakened" that so much is said..for next time if possible I would like to create a universe without limits where we all have super powers.

This analogy illustrates it very well Gemini represents the Illuminati and Pegasus (seya) represents Perceval.