Éiriú-Eolas - Breathing Program

[Cosmos]

One particular area that I'm' currently very interested in is the role of the solar plexus or celiac plexus . I've noticed with my singing students that this is the spot where the main resistance is for proper diaphragmatic breathing. The solar plexus is very much connected to our feelings (e.g. fear, stress, anxiety will make this area stiff). I'm in the middle of researching this, so I'll get back on this subject later. I've had VERY good results with working on relaxing and 'melting' the solar plexus area with my students. It's a good start to notice how, and at what moments this area will tighten and 'close'.

know that's interesting from wikipedia :

The celiac plexus, also known as the solar plexus, is a complex network of nerves (a plexus) located in the abdomen, where the celiac trunk, superior mesenteric artery, and renal arteries branch from the abdominal aorta. It is in back of the stomach and the omental bursa, and in front of the crura of the diaphragm, on the level of the first lumbar vertebra, L1.

The plexus is formed (in part) by the greater and lesser splanchnic nerves of both sides, and also parts of the right vagus nerve.

The celiac plexus proper consists of the celiac ganglia with a network of interconnecting fibers. The aorticorenal ganglia are often considered to be part of the celiac ganglia, and thus, part of the plexus
....................

The celiac plexus is often popularly referred to as the solar plexus, generally in the context of a blow to the stomach. In many of these cases, it is not the celiac plexus itself being referred to, but rather the region where it is located. A blow to the stomach can upset this region. This can cause the diaphragm to spasm, resulting in difficulty in breathing—a sensation commonly known as "getting the wind knocked out of you". A blow to this region can also affect the celiac plexus itself, possibly interfering with the functioning of the viscera, as well as causing great pain.A celiac plexus block by means of fluoroscopically guided injection is sometimes used to treat intractable pain from cancers[1] such as pancreatic cancer. Frequently celiac plexus block performed by pain management specialists and radiologists is performed via CT guidance. Intractable pain related to chronic pancreatitis is an important indication for celiac plexus ablation

 

[SolarMother]

Hi SolarMother

If the ‘anxiety felt in the chest’ is in the form of ‘panic’, are you taking enough GABA?

I often say the POTS to myself at any time day or night, but rarely do pipe breathing during the day. Sounds like this is something I should be doing. Any feed back much welcomed.

A good idea is to start the morning off this way, before and after breakfast, before lunch etc, or when you feel other than ‘well, stressed ‘, etc. :)

I am forgetting to take GABA! I did take some last weekend during the day and noticed that my chest felt better. Thank you for reminding me, I can be really slow sometimes ;)

 

[Seamus]

Hi SolarMother

If the ‘anxiety felt in the chest’ is in the form of ‘panic’, are you taking enough GABA?

I often say the POTS to myself at any time day or night, but rarely do pipe breathing during the day. Sounds like this is something I should be doing. Any feed back much welcomed.

A good idea is to start the morning off this way, before and after breakfast, before lunch etc, or when you feel other than ‘well, stressed ‘, etc. :)

I am forgetting to take GABA! I did take some last weekend during the day and noticed that my chest felt better. Thank you for reminding me, I can be really slow sometimes ;)

Hi SolarMother,

I missed the section on neurotransmitters in the UltraMind Solution on the first read and it was only after a recent review that I started taking GABA, tryptophan, etc. FWIW, I posted recently in the GABA thread about what a difference it is making for me:

I am following Dr. Hyman's recommendations in chapter 22 of the Ultramind Solution. I have been taking 500mg GABA twice a day, once in the mid afternoon and once before bed on an empty stomach, and 200mg of Theanine first thing in the morning and just before bed.

I am noticing dramatic and immediate results from this supplement. I slept more deeply this week and I had vivid dreams that I remembered the next morning several nights. I generally felt more rested and I found it easier to get up in the morning (less groggy). My muscles and joints seem more relaxed, and general mobility seems to be improving. My body feels achy in a good way, like you might feel after a good stretch, and I feel more aware of sensation all over my body. I feel much more relaxed in general and I felt less overwhelmed in general this past week. I also had the distinct impression that this week was long, and each day has seemed quite long, as if my perception of time passing is altered. It seems that I am more aware of what I am doing, when I am doing it, so the day doesn't race by in the same way. Similarly I noticed a marked decrease in the level of mental "chatter" or discursive thoughts racing through my brain non stop.

Since I wrote that post a couple of weeks ago I have been feeling progressively more relaxed and able to focus without feeling as stressed out, overwhelmed and anxious. I'm amazed at what a big difference it is making for me!

It helped me to reread that section because it reminded me of how neurotransmitters work, what happens when they our out of balance, and how supplementation might help.
If you are forgetting to take GABA it might be worth refreshing your memory as well. The most relevant part of the UltraMind Solution is section 1.2 of chapter 6 on page 95. There are supplementation guidelines on page 353.

The following threads might be helpful as well:

UltraMind Solution Quizzes
GABA

 

[Graalsword]

In general I sit for most of the program, except that I lie down for POTS. However the last 2 or 3 times, I lied down for pipe breathing, stand up for warriors bth, sit for beatha, and lie down again for POTS. However, I noticed that although it is very comfortable, when lying down for pipe breath, my lungs don't expand as well as doing it sat or standing up.

I've been yawning too, mostly in pipe breath and beatha.

I'm a bit confused by what you say there Graalsword. When doing the pipe breath your belly should be doing the expansion which is why lying down is more comfortable for some. Do you mean its harder for you to breathe when lying down or are you using your lungs to do the breathing?

Btw... I have also noticed more yawning myself lately. Oddly enough the tearing has slowed a lot whereas it used to be the opposite.

I agree with Pete, it sounds like you may not be doing it right. I suspect you might be doing so called upper breathing or even reversed breathing, which is very common. In upper breathing the movement of the diaphragm is minimal and the main work of the breathing are done by: the Pectoralis minor, Sternocleidomastoid and Scalene muscles. In reversed breathing the diaphragm is completely passive, the breathing is maintained only by the emergeny breathing muscles. This is also explained very well in the EE video.

Pectoralis minor:

Sternocleidomastoid:

Scalenes:

For a complete explanation on this see: The Respiration Connection

The descent of the diaphragm and the expansion of the belly should generally work better while lying on your back. This is mainly because the abdominal muscles that are needed to support the core (External/Interior oblique & Rectus abdominis) when you are standing are relaxed.

Have you tried breathing with a book on your belly, as described in the EE instructions?

To give you a idea how the diaphragm and breathing should work have a look at this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp-gCvW8PRY

Notice in the video how the expansion of the rib cage STARTS from the lower ribs, the lower ribs are the ones you want to expand while breathing. The movement of the lower ribs also helps the diaphragm, since the outline of the diaphragm is attached to the lower ribs - they sort of stretch the diaphragm so that it flattens (descends). So, you want the belly to move out when you inhale and when you have accomplished this (not before!), you can add the thought of the lower ribs expanding to the sides.

So the most important thing is that the diaphragm descents properly. For this you need to practise and be patient. Since there's a lot of psychology involved in how we breath (one could say that our breathing is a reflection of our mental state) there's a big amount of resistance, it's hard to change a breathing pattern that you had in many many years.

One particular area that I'm' currently very interested in is the role of the solar plexus or celiac plexus . I've noticed with my singing students that this is the spot where the main resistance is for proper diaphragmatic breathing. The solar plexus is very much connected to our feelings (e.g. fear, stress, anxiety will make this area stiff). I'm in the middle of researching this, so I'll get back on this subject later. I've had VERY good results with working on relaxing and 'melting' the solar plexus area with my students. It's a good start to notice how, and at what moments this area will tighten and 'close'.

Sorry for the delay. Yes, my belly moves, in fact I can do that because I learnt singing several years ago. I was referring to the lower and mid ribs when I put my fingers around my chest, only in that moment. I mean, maybe the one thing that I did wrong, is that when doing the fingers-around-chest stage, after moving out the belly and lower ribs, I also move a bit of the mid ribs. I think that I've also been moving the belly and SECOND the lower ribs, So I should keep only moving the lower ones, which pushes out the belly, and let mid and high ribs with no movement at all. Thanks for the graphics and video and the explanation

 

[SolarMother]

It helped me to reread that section because it reminded me of how neurotransmitters work, what happens when they our out of balance, and how supplementation might help.
If you are forgetting to take GABA it might be worth refreshing your memory as well. The most relevant part of the UltraMind Solution is section 1.2 of chapter 6 on page 95. There are supplementation guidelines on page 353.

The following threads might be helpful as well:

UltraMind Solution Quizzes
GABA

Wow. Thank you Seamas! I've never noticed the UltraMind Solution book. I am here at our library and presto, I don't have to ILL it because it is here NOW! ;)
One evening I did take GABA (2 of them) before bed and they kept me up. I remember thinking to myself that I should not take them in the evening, but perhaps just one, as you suggested, is going to be fine.

 

[Ollie]

One evening I did take GABA (2 of them) before bed and they kept me up. I remember thinking to myself that I should not take them in the evening, but perhaps just one, as you suggested, is going to be fine.

You may like to consider taking one before teatime/dinner and another an hour before bedtime. This may help or not in keeping you up.

 

[aragorn]

Graalsword, I may have misunderstood your problem. As you know, the pipe breathing section is called three stage breathing. That's lower, middle and upper part. During stages 2 and 3 you definetly want to move your middle and upper ribs. And in stage 3 the emergency breathing muscles will most likely become active too. But the 3 stage breathing is a special kind of excercise, what I was talking in my earlier post would apply for normal everyday breathing plus the beatha part and POTS.

Maybe you could still elaborate on what exactly you find difficult while lying down? I do EE mostly lying on my back, and I don't use the hand positions when doing it this way- it makes it harder to relax. In the pipe breathing I always start the inhaling from the belly and lower ribs, also at stages 2 and 3. It's like pouring water into a glass: it's starts to fill up from the bottom. Once you have the inhaling 'anchored' at the bottom you can safely build it higher and higher, finally employing the emergency breathing muscles (only pipe breathing section). I'm sure it can be done differently too, breathing 'straight' to e.g. the middle (2. Stage) and upper (3. Stage) part, without the anchor. I dont feel comfortable doing it this way, since the diaphragm is more passive - it feels forced somehow. IMO, the optimal case is when the air that you breathe in 'does the job for you', you just expand in every direction without any effort.

 

[HowToBe]

I found a video for teaching kids to belly breathe. I linked to it in this thread: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=22256.0

 

[Cosmos]

I found a video for teaching kids to belly breathe. I linked to it in this thread: http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=22256.0

cool

 

[SolarMother]

Graalsword, I may have misunderstood your problem. As you know, the pipe breathing section is called three stage breathing. That's lower, middle and upper part. During stages 2 and 3 you definetly want to move your middle and upper ribs. And in stage 3 the emergency breathing muscles will most likely become active too. But the 3 stage breathing is a special kind of excercise, what I was talking in my earlier post would apply for normal everyday breathing plus the beatha part and POTS.

Maybe you could still elaborate on what exactly you find difficult while lying down? I do EE mostly lying on my back, and I don't use the hand positions when doing it this way- it makes it harder to relax. In the pipe breathing I always start the inhaling from the belly and lower ribs, also at stages 2 and 3. It's like pouring water into a glass: it's starts to fill up from the bottom. Once you have the inhaling 'anchored' at the bottom you can safely build it higher and higher, finally employing the emergency breathing muscles (only pipe breathing section). I'm sure it can be done differently too, breathing 'straight' to e.g. the middle (2. Stage) and upper (3. Stage) part, without the anchor. I dont feel comfortable doing it this way, since the diaphragm is more passive - it feels forced somehow. IMO, the optimal case is when the air that you breathe in 'does the job for you', you just expand in every direction without any effort.

Thank you Aragorn. This posting is very helpful and you answered my question just posted on the EE forum--how is belly breathing done correctly? I also do EE (except for WB) lying down. So, you are saying in pipe breathing you are able to get the air into the top of the lungs in stage 3 without putting your hands behind your neck, and in being more relaxed while lying down, you find the air you breathe doing the job for you without needing to move the hands. I sure do notice how much easier it is to breathe lying down.

 

[Graalsword]

Graalsword, I may have misunderstood your problem. As you know, the pipe breathing section is called three stage breathing. That's lower, middle and upper part. During stages 2 and 3 you definetly want to move your middle and upper ribs. And in stage 3 the emergency breathing muscles will most likely become active too. But the 3 stage breathing is a special kind of excercise, what I was talking in my earlier post would apply for normal everyday breathing plus the beatha part and POTS.

Maybe you could still elaborate on what exactly you find difficult while lying down? I do EE mostly lying on my back, and I don't use the hand positions when doing it this way- it makes it harder to relax. In the pipe breathing I always start the inhaling from the belly and lower ribs, also at stages 2 and 3. It's like pouring water into a glass: it's starts to fill up from the bottom. Once you have the inhaling 'anchored' at the bottom you can safely build it higher and higher, finally employing the emergency breathing muscles (only pipe breathing section). I'm sure it can be done differently too, breathing 'straight' to e.g. the middle (2. Stage) and upper (3. Stage) part, without the anchor. I dont feel comfortable doing it this way, since the diaphragm is more passive - it feels forced somehow. IMO, the optimal case is when the air that you breathe in 'does the job for you', you just expand in every direction without any effort.

That is what I meant, the stage 2. I've been doing what you describe, that is the effect of filling a glass of water, what I meant was that in the stage 2 the middle ribs moved less when doing it on my back. The rest of the breathing is ok.

 

[aragorn]

Graalsword, I may have misunderstood your problem. As you know, the pipe breathing section is called three stage breathing. That's lower, middle and upper part. During stages 2 and 3 you definetly want to move your middle and upper ribs. And in stage 3 the emergency breathing muscles will most likely become active too. But the 3 stage breathing is a special kind of excercise, what I was talking in my earlier post would apply for normal everyday breathing plus the beatha part and POTS.

Maybe you could still elaborate on what exactly you find difficult while lying down? I do EE mostly lying on my back, and I don't use the hand positions when doing it this way- it makes it harder to relax. In the pipe breathing I always start the inhaling from the belly and lower ribs, also at stages 2 and 3. It's like pouring water into a glass: it's starts to fill up from the bottom. Once you have the inhaling 'anchored' at the bottom you can safely build it higher and higher, finally employing the emergency breathing muscles (only pipe breathing section). I'm sure it can be done differently too, breathing 'straight' to e.g. the middle (2. Stage) and upper (3. Stage) part, without the anchor. I dont feel comfortable doing it this way, since the diaphragm is more passive - it feels forced somehow. IMO, the optimal case is when the air that you breathe in 'does the job for you', you just expand in every direction without any effort.

That is what I meant, the stage 2. I've been doing what you describe, that is the effect of filling a glass of water, what I meant was that in the stage 2 the middle ribs moved less when doing it on my back. The rest of the breathing is ok.

This is just my personal opinion, but I don't think you should analyze 'the ribs' too much. It sounds like you're doing just fine. Since a big part of the rib cage is on the back side, the sensation can be quite different while lying down (on your back). I know singers who concentrate solely on feeling the back expanding. My ribs bulge out on the front side, maybe that's why it works better for me while lying. We are all different.

The main thing is that you're doing it, whether sitting or lying down, and that you don't get too tense in the process. :)

 

[pete02]

Graalsword, I may have misunderstood your problem. As you know, the pipe breathing section is called three stage breathing. That's lower, middle and upper part. During stages 2 and 3 you definetly want to move your middle and upper ribs. And in stage 3 the emergency breathing muscles will most likely become active too. But the 3 stage breathing is a special kind of excercise, what I was talking in my earlier post would apply for normal everyday breathing plus the beatha part and POTS.

Maybe you could still elaborate on what exactly you find difficult while lying down? I do EE mostly lying on my back, and I don't use the hand positions when doing it this way- it makes it harder to relax. In the pipe breathing I always start the inhaling from the belly and lower ribs, also at stages 2 and 3. It's like pouring water into a glass: it's starts to fill up from the bottom. Once you have the inhaling 'anchored' at the bottom you can safely build it higher and higher, finally employing the emergency breathing muscles (only pipe breathing section). I'm sure it can be done differently too, breathing 'straight' to e.g. the middle (2. Stage) and upper (3. Stage) part, without the anchor. I dont feel comfortable doing it this way, since the diaphragm is more passive - it feels forced somehow. IMO, the optimal case is when the air that you breathe in 'does the job for you', you just expand in every direction without any effort.

Thank you Aragorn. This posting is very helpful and you answered my question just posted on the EE forum--how is belly breathing done correctly? I also do EE (except for WB) lying down. So, you are saying in pipe breathing you are able to get the air into the top of the lungs in stage 3 without putting your hands behind your neck, and in being more relaxed while lying down, you find the air you breathe doing the job for you without needing to move the hands. I sure do notice how much easier it is to breathe lying down.

I was under the impression that using your hands in the 2nd and 3rd pipe breathing stages is what helps you to expand the chest cavity to allow you to get the air all the way to the top of the lungs. I do understand that relaxation is also very important but can you get as much air in without using the hands or is this something you have accomplished from doing it for so long? I know many people in the EE classes I attend that prefer to lay down but still do the motions with the arms.

 

[aragorn]

I was under the impression that using your hands in the 2nd and 3rd pipe breathing stages is what helps you to expand the chest cavity to allow you to get the air all the way to the top of the lungs. I do understand that relaxation is also very important but can you get as much air in without using the hands or is this something you have accomplished from doing it for so long? I know many people in the EE classes I attend that prefer to lay down but still do the motions with the arms.

I think what you're saying is true. It is mentioned in the EE material somewhere how the hand positions (lifting your arms to your side or top) does help the expansion. And feeling pressure of the hands at a certain place of the body helps too. For example when you are in the swimming pool you can breathe more correct because of the pressure from the water. However for me personally it works better without the hands. As you say, it may be because I've been training my breathing for a couple of decades in order to sing better. For example, with beginner singing students it is crucial that they train the breathing with assistance from the teacher. The student finds the correct breathing easier when the teacher places his hands on the back and lower ribs of the student. Usually only after some years the student can accomplish the 'deep breathing' without help.

But to clarify: I don't think that you should set as a goal in practising EE the riddance of the hand positions. If they help, why don't use them. :)

 

[pete02]

Thanks for that Aragorn. :)

I actually got a better understanding of what you were saying right after I wrote that. I shut down the laptop and did an EE session and during the BaHa breathing I felt what you were talking about. How the air fills the belly and then the lungs without any assistance from the hands at all, so I guess once you've trained your body to breathe properly I can understand how you do the 3 stage pipe breathing without hands.